Painting a rented property

Sirsok

Upon leaving a property who is obligated to pay for the paint job the house may need after? We are currently in a situation where the landlord is trying to take a substantial amount of our deposit due to painting, the floor varnished and a possible new mattress. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also if the landlord does not have a energy rating form do we have any recourse due to this? Any help would be appreciated thanks.

ger vallely

I would guess it would partially depend on how long you had been living there and what your lease said.I have lived in quite a number of rented properties over the years and never had to pay for painting or bedding.sounds to me like the landlord is trying to pull a fast one. But do recheck your lease,if you have one.

hfallada

A landlord can only seek money for excessive wear and tear. So if you put a few scratches on the floor, I see no problem with that. However if you wear high heels and completely destroyed and needed to be fixed I think billing you for that is logically.

The replacing of bedding is bs. A landlord should only except a few years from a quality mattress and bed. Also if you ****ed up the walls with pins and Sellotape I can understanding him charging you. Ask for a receipt if he is trying to charge you.

The BER cert is bs and complaining about it will do nothing. PRTB as extremely slow ( almost useless) and I won't be a hurry to use them.

Outkast_IRE

General wear and tear should not be taken from a deposit.

But for example someone who has kids and their kids draw all over a wall and make no attempt to clean it, that would not be classed as wear and tear, neither would wear to floors unless you damaged it somehow.

As for the mattress unless it was brand new when you moved in and left it damaged after a short period then that also would be wear and tear.

Sirsok

ger vallely wrote: »

I would guess it would partially depend on how long you had been living there and what your lease said.I have lived in quite a number of rented properties over the years and never had to pay for painting or bedding.sounds to me like the landlord is trying to pull a fast one. But do recheck your lease,if you have one.

We rented for a year and it has been two years since it was painted, damage to walls is in relation to hand prints on some walls, nothing crazy. The floors are in relation to a wheel on a bed coming unstuck so a wooden floor is scratched. She is taking 600e from a 800 deposit and is showing no signs of a compromise , she also refuses to speak to us for extended periods of times,has called over unannounced 3 times, she will only deal with one person from the house and refuses to speak to any other tenants

suchafunkymonke

Sirsok wrote: »

We rented for a year and it has been two years since it was painted, damage to walls is in relation to hand prints on some walls, nothing crazy. The floors are in relation to a wheel on a bed coming unstuck so a wooden floor is scratched. She is taking 600e from a 800 deposit and is showing no signs of a compromise , she also refuses to speak to us for extended periods of times,has called over unannounced 3 times, she will only deal with one person from the house and refuses to speak to any other tenants

Hand prints on the walls are not generally classified as wear and tear. Faded or age flaked paint would be.

Scratching the floor with a damaged bed wheel also isn't wear and tear.

Did you counter offer to have these things fixed yourself?

Outkast_IRE

suchafunkymonke wrote: »

Hand prints on the walls are not generally classified as wear and tear.
QUOTE]
exactly sometimes handprints can be removed with a simple light rub of a sponge with lukewarm water.

djimi

It sounds like you are going to have to foot the bill for this, however make sure that you get full reciepts/invoices for all materials and work carried out, and bear in mind that the landlord cannot deduct for work which they carry out themselves, or for materials which they cannot provide a reciept/invoice for.

ABajaninCork

How did the landlady arrive at the E600 figure?

Bigcheeze

This all sounds like really minor stuff. I wouldn't accept deductions for any of it.
What's happened here is that she doesn't fancy paying out 800 quid so has looked for excuses to deduct.

djimi

Bigcheeze wrote: »

This all sounds like really minor stuff. I wouldn't accept deductions for any of it.
What's happened here is that she doesn't fancy paying out 800 quid so has looked for excuses to deduct.

Handprints on the wall (assuming they cannot be cleaned off) and damage to a wooden floor are not normal wear and tear.

jlm29

The damage to the floor was caused by a wheel coming off a bed though. That shouldn't really happen if the bed is fit for purpose, that would be my take on it anyhow! If the bed came off and they didn't notice, it's easy to see how the floor would have a few scratches- I wouldn't necessarily consider it their fault!

djimi

jlm29 wrote: »

The damage to the floor was caused by a wheel coming off a bed though. That shouldn't really happen if the bed is fit for purpose, that would be my take on it anyhow! If the bed came off and they didn't notice, it's easy to see how the floor would have a few scratches- I wouldn't necessarily consider it their fault!

The moment they realised that the wheel had come off (and it is absolutely something you would notice right away) they should have taken measures to ensure that the broken wheel did not cause damage to the floor. By the sounds of it this did not happen and they allowed the damaged wheel to cause damage to the wooden floor, hence the negligence on their part.

suchafunkymonke

djimi wrote: »

It sounds like you are going to have to foot the bill for this, however make sure that you get full reciepts/invoices for all materials and work carried out, and bear in mind that the landlord cannot deduct for work which they carry out themselves, or for materials which they cannot provide a reciept/invoice for.

That is not strictly true. They can charge for time they have to spend clearing up any damage or putting the property back in the condition that it was initially in when the tenant took on the lease.

They can't charge for paint etc, if they can't show receipts.

From what the OP has said, they have left the property in a worse condition than they received it in. Its only fair they pay to fix it.

Grumpypants

Op is being a little too vague to determine correctly what is going on.

Is this one or two hand prints from the natural oil on a person's skin skin at the bottom of the stairs or around light switches ? Then this is normal and the landlord has to paint the house anyway so no you don't pay for this.

Are there handprints from other materials dirt or grime ? Are they all over in random places then this is not normal and the Op should pay.

The damage to the wooden floor. Is it's small 1 to 2 inch scratch where the wheel came off and the bed made contact with the floor then thus is not the Op fault. Was the bed substandard and why was there no floor protection.

Or did the wheel come off and the Op drag the bed around to leave scraps all over the floor then this you need to fix.

Mire info from the Op will help clear it up.

djimi

suchafunkymonke wrote: »

That is not strictly true. They can charge for time they have to spend clearing up any damage or putting the property back in the condition that it was initially in when the tenant took on the lease.

They can't charge for paint etc, if they can't show receipts.

From what the OP has said, they have left the property in a worse condition than they received it in. Its only fair they pay to fix it.

It is my understanding that a landlord cannot deduct for their own time, regardless of what it was used for. Can you point to something that shows otherwise?

From http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=faq&answer=58

Note: It is not possible to claim for your own time e.g. if you re-paint a room yourself. You cannot put a value on this time and deduct it from the tenants deposit.

ABajaninCork

OP - The walls & paintwork should've been given a good wash down with sugar soap before you left. Why didn't you do that if there were handprints on the wall?

And I'd tell the landlady to provide a full breakdown with receipts showing how she arrived at the E600 figure. If she can't/won't then tell her you'll be taking a case with PTRB.

shroom007

Give the PRTB a call or Threshold, it's standard Irish Landlord Practice to try steal the deposit on some nonsense grounds. If there is no rent arrears or major damage you should get the deposit returned in full.

awec

It's unlikely that you will hand back a property with the paintwork still in pristine condition, there will always be little marks and hand/finger prints around light switches etc. Especially if the walls are white / cream - the typical colours of rental accomodation.

I would consider that normal wear and tear.

ger vallely

Plus 1 for talking to Threshold,they are fantastic to deal with and know all the ins and outs. Also consider talking to Citzens Advice,they might have some more advice. i would definitely consider talking to someone who knows professionally about this area. I guess you would have no bother with this if you are somewhat certain the 'damage' is not beyond what ought to be considered normal. On the other hand if the property is in a worse state because of you, well then you may have to agree to some payment.

The_Conductor

Hand prints on the walls and a varnish significantly damaged from a missing wheel on a bed- are most certainly *not* normal wear and tear.
If a painter comes in to remedy these - you won't have much change over from 600- no matter how you look at it.

Grumpypants

The_Conductor wrote: »

Hand prints on the walls and a varnish significantly damaged from a missing wheel on a bed- are most certainly *not* normal wear and tear.
If a painter comes in to remedy these - you won't have much change over from 600- no matter how you look at it.

People touch walls in the normal course of living. Handprints are a perfectly normal thing to expect. The land lord needs to paint the house anyway. Unless there is plaster missing from the walls it's the landlords expense.

A missing wheel depends on a few things was it a defective bed ie was the wheel missing or did the person break the wheel off. If the land lord has a broken bed on a wooden floor with no protection then that is their fault.

If the OP was jumping on the bed and it broke off and damaged the floor then yea they should pay for it.

This does appear to be a lardlord trying to fix their house up at the OPs expense.

The_Conductor

Grumpypants wrote: »

People touch walls in the normal course of living. Handprints are a perfectly normal thing to expect. The land lord needs to paint the house anyway. Unless there is plaster missing from the walls it's the landlords expense.

A missing wheel depends on a few things was it a defective bed ie was the wheel missing or did the person break the wheel off. If the land lord has a broken bed on a wooden floor with no protection then that is their fault.

If the OP was jumping on the bed and it broke off and damaged the floor then yea they should pay for it.

This does appear to be a lardlord trying to fix their house up at the OPs expense.

Hand prints are not a normal thing. I have a 2 year old and a 3 year- both of whom enjoy painting and drawing- and eating spaghetti with their hands etc- and I have not a single hand-print on the wall. On the rare occasions that I do get paint or spaghetti juice or whatever on doors or walls- and it does happen- I wipe it off immediately, and its gone.

Damaged varnish- is a different story. Its highly unlikely the landlord let the house with a wheel missing from the bed- it happened during the normal course of affairs- and the damage happened thereafter.

I don't know what your house is like- but most normal houses do not get painted every 2-3 years- that is highly unusual. A landlord typically paints a house every 5 years- and that is what is provided for in the deductions (tax code).

It would also be unusual for a landlord to do the repairs themselves (at least in part because they can't claim them as an expense- only the materials). There are lots of companies out there who specialise in returning properties to a rentable state, after tenants- and whose charges would normally be deducted from deposits.

The damage that the OP has described- would not be classified as normal wear and tear- irrespective of how you try to present it. The suggested bill- is steeper than I would have imagined- and I would be asking for an explanation of it- however- the damage itself is irrefutable.

Grumpypants

But it's not a normal house, it's a rented property. You paint it when you change tenants so it's ready for the next people. most times you will only need to fix up one or two rooms due to normal wear and tear. If someone has been living in a house for 12 months it will get some wear and tear. This needs to be fixed.

Handprints happen from the natural oil on a person's skin. If you really expect some one to live in a house and never touch the walls then you shoudnt be renting a property. We are not talking about a 2 year old putting sauce on a wall.

My house is covered in handprints. I lean on the wall to pull out the bin bag, when I run up stairs, around pretty much every light switch. It's perfectly natural and some are very hard to get rid of. In some cases they need to be painted out.

Now if the OP has gone finger painting and covered the walls with paint then that's not normal but I would be surprised if that was what has happened.

If a wheel broke off the bed and it dented the floor that's normal. If the OP dragged the bed all around scraping the floor that is different.

I moved a couch before and it had a screw sticking out the bottom it left a search on the floor that's not my fault the couch was faulty. I was turning over in bed one night and because the slats had not been properly set in place they popped out and marked the floor again not my fault and damage that happened in the normal course of the day.

I see nothing the OP has posted to suggest they did anything out if the ordinary.

Lots of landlords think the deposit is there for their use to touch up the property, it's not.

The_Conductor

You do not paint a house every time you get new tenants- you'd go bankrupt in no time flat. Why should you have to repaint after every tenant- this is probably where you and I disagree most- it is *not* normal for a landlord to habitually repaint a house (or apartment) after a letting- esp. if the letting was only for a 2 year period. Restorative work after a tenancy- is expected to last 5 years (according to the Revenue Commissioners) and if while there will be normal wear and tear associated with a tenancy- the idea that you'd repaint after only 2 years, is bizarre in the extreme........

Grumpypants

The_Conductor wrote: »

You do not paint a house every time you get new tenants- you'd go bankrupt in no time flat. Why should you have to repaint after every tenant- this is probably where you and I disagree most- it is *not* normal for a landlord to habitually repaint a house (or apartment) after a letting- esp. if the letting was only for a 2 year period. Restorative work after a tenancy- is expected to last 5 years (according to the Revenue Commissioners) and if while there will be normal wear and tear associated with a tenancy- the idea that you'd repaint after only 2 years, is bizarre in the extreme........

you would rent out a grubby house ? After a tenant leaves you go in and get it back up to a standard fit to rent it out again. In most cases this does not require a full house to be repainted but in most cases it will require some fixing up. This is a bill the landlord has to pay. A tenant shouldn't be paying for the upkeep of the landlords house especially when they are moving out.

But yes if the house needed to be repainted after 2 years I do it. I wouldn't let someone move into a substandard property. In 2 years if I'd taken in 20 grand in rent I could put 200 euro towards a few tins of paint.

Shelflife

Grumpypants wrote: »

you would rent out a grubby house ? After a tenant leaves you go in and get it back up to a standard fit to rent it out again. In most cases this does not require a full house to be repainted but in most cases it will require some fixing up. This is a bill the landlord has to pay. A tenant shouldn't be paying for the upkeep of the landlords house especially when they are moving out.

But yes if the house needed to be repainted after 2 years I do it. I wouldn't let someone move into a substandard property. In 2 years if I'd taken in 20 grand in rent I could put 200 euro towards a few tins of paint.

If I let a house which was just painted I would expect that it would be more or less in the same state after / years. I would expect to give it a good clean and a touch up. Anything outside of that would be out of the deposit

€10k a year in rent lol I wish!

€200 for a paint job, I'd love to live in your world !

L1011

Shelflife wrote: »

If I let a house which was just painted I would expect that it would be more or less in the same state after / years. I would expect to give it a good clean and a touch up. Anything outside of that would be out of the deposit

€10k a year in rent lol I wish!

€200 for a paint job, I'd love to live in your world !

Bog standard 3 beds local to me go for >1100 a month, 10k a year in rent is in no way out of the ordinary.

You could get the paint for a full house for 200 - no labour though. However, if the LL *had* done a 200 quid paint job I'd not expect it to last 2 years - €10 for 10l tubs of emulsion are atrocious quality, generally unwashable and liable to get damaged if you look funny at it. Colortrend or similar quality stuff should be serviceable for years but costs far more.

Grumpypants

Shelflife wrote: »

If I let a house which was just painted I would expect that it would be more or less in the same state after / years. I would expect to give it a good clean and a touch up. Anything outside of that would be out of the deposit

€10k a year in rent lol I wish!

€200 for a paint job, I'd love to live in your world !

yea 200 euro to touch up the house does not seem overly ambitious. You are not doing a full repaint from scratch that needs 4 coats in every room. It would mainly take one quick coat in one or two rooms between tenants to have it back up to standard if you have a decent job done day one and it would be the min I'd do to get it ready for someone new. There is no way I'd rent again without touching up the house.

800 euro a month for a full house is also not unheard of. In fact 900 is pretty much the norm around here.

awec

I would consider hand marks on the wall normal. By hand marks I mean the slightly off-colour stain from the natural oils in someones hand.

I wouldn't contain hand STAINS on the wall normal - i.e. people with dirt / food etc on their hands making very noticable marks on the wall.

With rental properties usually having very light paints I think landlords have to expect that they'll have to repaint every so often - it's completely unreasonable to expect the paintwork to be exactly as you left it.

pwurple

No way of telling if this is wear and tear or damage, because we can't see it. Floor damage sounds bad if furniture was dragged around with a broken wheel.

I also get the impression that this was a student house, as there are multiple tenants.