Irish Rail - Fine / Court case

Good Name

Can anyone advise if they have ever went to court with Irish rail over a fixed penalty fine.

Long story short I use the train an odd time I normally get on in Enfield and as there is no ticket machine I buy in Connolly which is fine , however the last day I was getting on in Kilcock so the night before I check on line and it advised there was no ticket machine in Kilcock so I presumed it would be the same as Enfield.

However when I arrived in Connolly and tried to buy my return ticket to Kilcock I was hit with the fine as there was a machine at the station and the site was wrong. I showed them my phone showing why I had made my assumption but to no avail I had a meeting at work do couldn't keep arguing.

Anyway that night when I got back I looked in Kilcock and the ticket machine is located in a location you don't even pass when getting on the train and there is no sign up before you get on the train advising there is a machine

So basically I got a fine for no ticket but I don't think it is fair due to the error on line.

I have appealed it and they rejected it with a generic reply.

My question is how would it stand up in court , I have screen shots of the sure and photos of the machine location etc.

Finally they have since updated the site with the correct info!

Thanks

foggy_lad

Good Name wrote: »

Can anyone advise if they have ever went to court with Irish rail over a fixed penalty fine.

Long story short I use the train an odd time I normally get on in Enfield and as there is no ticket machine I buy in Connolly which is fine , however the last day I was getting on in Kilcock so the night before I check on line and it advised there was no ticket machine in Kilcock so I presumed it would be the same as Enfield.

However when I arrived in Connolly and tried to buy my return ticket to Kilcock I was hit with the fine as there was a machine at the station and the site was wrong. I showed them my phone showing why I had made my assumption but to no avail I had a meeting at work do couldn't keep arguing.

Anyway that night when I got back I looked in Kilcock and the ticket machine is located in a location you don't even pass when getting on the train and there is no sign up before you get on the train advising there is a machine

So basically I got a fine for no ticket but I don't think it is fair due to the error on line.

I have appealed it and they rejected it with a generic reply.

My question is how would it stand up in court , I have screen shots of the sure and photos of the machine location etc.

Finally they have since updated the site with the correct info!

Thanks

Because of their incorrect information you were not expecting to see any ticket machine and even when there is a ticket machine it is not a booking office. you are entitled to board a train where Irish Rail have given notice that the booking office is closed(or does not exist).

As for going to court, you have proof of being told there was no machine so given the out of the way location of the machine you can not be expected to have seen it considering you were told it did not exist. If it was me I would have my day in court and take my chance.

Good Name

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because of their incorrect information you were not expecting to see any ticket machine and even when there is a ticket machine it is not a booking office. you are entitled to board a train where Irish Rail have given notice that the booking office is closed(or does not exist).

As for going to court, you have proof of being told there was no machine so given the out of the way location of the machine you can not be expected to have seen it considering you were told it did not exist. If it was me I would have my day in court and take my chance.

Thanks Foggy , it is a matter of principle I don't want to pay it , As soon as I got to Connolly I tried to purchase a ticket it is just very frustrating that no one I speak to in Irish rail can apply common sense. 😡

keithclancy

Good Name wrote: »

Can anyone advise if they have ever went to court with Irish rail over a fixed penalty fine.

Long story short I use the train an odd time I normally get on in Enfield and as there is no ticket machine I buy in Connolly which is fine , however the last day I was getting on in Kilcock so the night before I check on line and it advised there was no ticket machine in Kilcock so I presumed it would be the same as Enfield.

However when I arrived in Connolly and tried to buy my return ticket to Kilcock I was hit with the fine as there was a machine at the station and the site was wrong. I showed them my phone showing why I had made my assumption but to no avail I had a meeting at work do couldn't keep arguing.

Anyway that night when I got back I looked in Kilcock and the ticket machine is located in a location you don't even pass when getting on the train and there is no sign up before you get on the train advising there is a machine

So basically I got a fine for no ticket but I don't think it is fair due to the error on line.

I have appealed it and they rejected it with a generic reply.

My question is how would it stand up in court , I have screen shots of the sure and photos of the machine location etc.

Finally they have since updated the site with the correct info!

Thanks

It is on their site:

http://www.irishrail.ie/Kilcock

Location: Over bridge in Kilcock on left hand side
Station Address: Iarnród Éireann,
Kilcock Station,
Co. Kildare
Contact Number: 1850 366 222 (+ 353 1 8366222)
Toilets: No
Ticket Vending Machine(s):
Yes
Smart Card Enabled
No
Routes Serviced: Dublin to Sligo

Skuxx

keithclancy wrote: »

It is on their site:

http://www.irishrail.ie/Kilcock

OP mentioned they have since updated the site!

Good Name

keithclancy wrote: »

It is on their site:

http://www.irishrail.ie/Kilcock

As per the last line in my original post they updated the site the day after the incident!! I have screen shots to prove it!

percy212

Did you keep screenshots? Court! They deserve a slap.

keithclancy

percy212 wrote: »

Did you keep screenshots? Court! They deserve a slap.

Your as bad as me .. yes he mentioned in his post he has screenshots

If the rule is that you can get on without a ticket and you have proof then i'd let it go to court and use the proof.

percy212

keithclancy wrote: »

Your as bad as me .. yes he mentioned in his post he has screenshots

If the rule is that you can get on without a ticket and you have proof then i'd let it go to court and use the proof.

Whoops! I should read the posts more closely
Anyway, court!

http://web.archive.org/web/20130131052259/http://www.irishrail.ie/Kilcock

Location: Over bridge in Kilcock on left hand side
Station Address: Iarnród Éireann,
Kilcock Station,
Co. Kildare
Contact Number: 1850 366 222 (+ 353 1 8366222)
Toilets: No
Ticket Vending Machine(s): No

Smart Card Enabled No

Routes Serviced: Dublin to Sligo

kippy

Where are the screen shots op?

keithclancy

kippy wrote: »

Where are the screen shots op?

On his phone or computer probably ...

Although the web.archive.org clearly shows it also.

hfallada

I would email Irish Rail and explain your situation and you know that they have since updated their website( a possible acknowledgement that they were in the wrong) and you have the screenshots.Therefore you want your fine to go away. Once you put something into writing, companies change their tone very rapidly

percy212

Of course they will capitulate in the face of the screenshots, but they need to do more than just waive the fine. They have acted in a hostile and disingenuous manner towards the OP by ignoring his correspondence to this point. They should at the very least send him some travel vouchers. Otherwise...COURT! Shameful behaviour.

Good Name

percy212 wrote: »

Did you keep screenshots? Court! They deserve a slap.

I did have the screen shots both on my phone and in the e-mail I sent them from my yahoo account. Also I took pictures if the station showing that when I enter the station the machine is facing away from me and you don't pass it at all. Also there is no sign in Kilcock saying have you a ticket etc.

Have tried to explain all this to Irish rail but they won't listen or reply to me apart from 1 generic reply that I think all appeals get

Feel very frustrated as I am trying to resolve this in a fare manner but no joy!!!

Good Name

hfallada wrote: »

I would email Irish Rail and explain your situation and you know that they have since updated their website( a possible acknowledgement that they were in the wrong) and you have the screenshots.Therefore you want your fine to go away. Once you put something into writing, companies change their tone very rapidly

Tried this also tried calling and speaking with a manager and no luck at all , they just won't engage me or listen to reason!

It's no fair that they have an appeals system that just says no to everything and then you can't do anything about it! They send you a generic e-mail saying pay the fine or face jail , they are just a crowd of money grabbing bullies

camel jockey

Disappointing but not surprising.

nlgbbbblth

Why do companies like Irish Rail persist in issuing generic replies (usually unsigned)?

Do they not have the ability to issue a free-format response that actually addresses the issues raised in the complaint?

Good Name

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Why do companies like Irish Rail persist in issuing generic replies (usually unsigned)?

Do they not have the ability to issue a free-format response that actually addresses the issues raised in the complaint?

So frustrating , why have an appeals system at all if it is just NO response to everything??

Good Name

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because of their incorrect information you were not expecting to see any ticket machine and even when there is a ticket machine it is not a booking office. you are entitled to board a train where Irish Rail have given notice that the booking office is closed(or does not exist).

As for going to court, you have proof of being told there was no machine so given the out of the way location of the machine you can not be expected to have seen it considering you were told it did not exist. If it was me I would have my day in court and take my chance.

Also here is the picture showing my view getting the train I think anyone would agree this along with the web site it is not surprising I missed it

07734

i would write a letter, with printouts of the screenshots. emails just don't have the same impact.

percy212

You should send those screenshots and your story to a local newspaper too. The complaints process clearly does not work. Hit them where it hurts. Bad press. Shoot off a copy to the minister for transport while you are at it. I am totally serious here. This is typical lazy ass don't give a **** service that needs to be corrected.

foggy_lad

percy212 wrote: »

You should send those screenshots and your story to a local newspaper too. The complaints process clearly does not work. Hit them where it hurts. Bad press. Shoot off a copy to the minister for transport while you are at it. I am totally serious here. This is typical lazy ass don't give a **** service that needs to be corrected.

OP Include a picture of all your other old tickets from Enfield bought at the gate in Connolly to show you have and had no intention to evade paying your fare as some may accuse you of this!

Gileadi

OP I used to work in a construction department in Irish Rail and occasionally had complaints forwarded on from the Minister of Transport. When something comes in with Leo.Varadkar@oireachtas.ie it goes straight to the top of the list of priorities.

I would email Leo Varadkar, and probably CC in a local T.D., preferably in the Labour/Fine Gael party. It's not how I believe politicians should be spending their time but in reality these things are dealt by assistants.

Good Name

Gileadi wrote: »

OP I used to work in a construction department in Irish Rail and occasionally had complaints forwarded on from the Minister of Transport. When something comes in with Leo.Varadkar@oireachtas.ie it goes straight to the top of the list of priorities.

I would email Leo Varadkar, and probably CC in a local T.D., preferably in the Labour/Fine Gael party. It's not how I believe politicians should be spending their time but in reality these things are dealt by assistants.

Thanks for that , I'm going to try that now as I really have exhausted every option with Irish rail. They seem more than happy for this to go to court 😕