Irish Rail Fines / Court

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

absolutely serious, the information on the website is the same as being told by a ticket clerk/station staff to board the train without a ticket.

It was more about the comment about climbing the machine .

Hilly Bill

Good Name wrote: »

Exactly it's not as if I decided to go do a full recon mission before getting the train ? I got to the station got the train end if story! Ther was no Q of people or flashing lights saying get a ticket here! The fact is I wasn't expecting a machine there so I didn't think to look for one

Is it so hard to grasp that I do this when I travel from Enfield so why would I think it strange I can do it from a station just up the road !!!

What did the chap that issued the fine say when you told them that and in the appeal?

Good Name

foggy_lad wrote: »

absolutely serious, the information on the website is the same as being told by a ticket clerk/station staff to board the train without a ticket.

Im with you on this Foggy! As i read I the terms and condition if the station closed , machine out of order ect you can get the train and get your ticket at your destination , I feel like their site been is the same thing ( in a way)

Hilly Bill

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It wont work. They have something about that on the website.

Good Name

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What did the chap that issued the fine say when you told them that and in the appeal?

The chap that have the fine was just plane rude and wouldn't enter into a conversation!

The appeals sent me a generic e-mail not even addressed to me so looks line they just copy and paste the same answer regardless of the situation so leads me to think the appeals process is pointless!!!

Hilly Bill

Good Name wrote: »

The chap that have the fine was just plane rude and wouldn't enter into a conversation!

The appeals sent me a generic e-mail not even addressed to me so looks line they just copy and paste the same answer regardless of the situation so leads me to think the appeals process is pointless!!!

Are you able to post the screenshots on here of where it says that there isnt a TVM there?


On your earlier comment about the location of the tvm. Ive just seen where it is and if the shutter is open then its hard to miss as its as close to the platform gate as possible and can be seen through the railings.
Seeing that you were not fined on the train i still think you were harshly fined seeing that you went to pay at the box.
The people that go to the box are those that didnt purchase a ticket before travelling and i doubt if all of them got on at stations without an open tvm or booking office. Point being that some get to pay the fare without the fine and some just get fined like yourself. That last bit could go in your favour if it ended up in court.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you able to post the screenshots on here of where it says that there isn't a TVM there?


On your earlier comment about the location of the tvm. Ive just seen where it is and if the shutter is open then its hard to miss as its as close to the platform gate as possible and can be seen through the railings.
Seeing that you were not fined on the train i still think you were harshly fined seeing that you went to pay at the box.
The people that go to the box are those that didnt purchase a ticket before travelling and i doubt if all of them got on at stations without an open tvm or booking office. Point being that some get to pay the fare without the fine and some just get fined like yourself. That last bit could go in your favour if it ended up in court.

The fact the website said there was no machine will decide this and as you mentioned the ticket machine, you cant see the shutter on the metal box holding the machine or the machine itself unless you approach from the opposite side to the main pedestrian entrances to the "station". When walking through the gate onto the platform all you can see is the back of this metal box which looks very much like the ESB boxes seen at important places like railway stations for signalling etc.

GTE

Hilly Bill wrote: »

On your earlier comment about the location of the tvm. Ive just seen where it is and if the shutter is open then its hard to miss as its as close to the platform gate as possible and can be seen through the railings.
Seeing that you were not fined on the train i still think you were harshly fined seeing that you went to pay at the box.

Where did you see that? Curious myself.

Good Name

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you able to post the screenshots on here of where it says that there isnt a TVM there?


On your earlier comment about the location of the tvm. Ive just seen where it is and if the shutter is open then its hard to miss as its as close to the platform gate as possible and can be seen through the railings.
Seeing that you were not fined on the train i still think you were harshly fined seeing that you went to pay at the box.
The people that go to the box are those that didnt purchase a ticket before travelling and i doubt if all of them got on at stations without an open tvm or booking office. Point being that some get to pay the fare without the fine and some just get fined like yourself. That last bit could go in your favour if it ended up in court.

Screen shot attached.

Unfortunately you don't pass the machine unless you are coming in the other way , the machine has its back to the main gate so as I thought there was no machine there I didn't pass much heed when entering the train.

In fairness unless you are coming from that side , use a parking space or go right when you go on the platform you won't see it, ( especially if your not looking for it)

If it had said on line there was a machine I would have went to the station expecting one and located it

Hilly Bill

bbk wrote: »

Where did you see that? Curious myself.

On the irish rail web site. There is a google pic of the station on the kilcock page when you do a station search.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

The fact the website said there was no machine will decide this and as you mentioned the ticket machine, you cant see the shutter on the metal box holding the machine or the machine itself unless you approach from the opposite side to the main pedestrian entrances to the "station". When walking through the gate onto the platform all you can see is the back of this metal box which looks very much like the ESB boxes seen at important places like railway stations for signalling etc.

The back of the box is facing the platform . When you walk to the gate you cant miss it.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The back of the box is facing the platform . When you walk to the gate you cant miss it.

Looking at the Google maps image of the entrance it is hard to say what that metal box is for, the image was taken in daytime and given the number of cars parked I would say during office hours yet the box is all closed up! I cant see any ticket machine there only an unsightly metal shed type construction.

Regardless of whether the machine is there or not or indeed how visible it is the fact remains that the op was given permission to board without a ticket by the site telling them that the station had no ticket machine.

Good Name

Hilly Bill wrote: »

On the irish rail web site. There is a google pic of the station on the kilcock page when you do a station search.

I'm not going to debate the position of the machine , as advised if you walk to the station you see the back of the machine in the shed , you then go in and I turned left and awaited the key. At no stage was the machine in my eye site if it was I would have used it.

Perhaps if I didn't look on line and be told there was no machine I would have passed more notice , but I got the train at 6.50 am and wasn't thinking about getting a ticket did to the info on line!

Good Name

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The back of the box is facing the platform . When you walk to the gate you cant miss it.

If you visit the station and if you walk to the station from the main town area you don't pass the machine you pass the back if the machine!

They have the machine located for people using the parking spaces!

But the location is beside the point , I didn't see it and I really wasn't looking for it

GTE

Hilly Bill wrote: »

On the irish rail web site. There is a google pic of the station on the kilcock page when you do a station search.

Indeed, I tried Google Maps too to see if it could shed light on the situation but the photo was taken in 2009 so I don't believe that it looks any more like a ticket machine now than it did back then.

I will be driving through Kilcock in a few hours so I will take a look see.

Given that a person is advised by a website that there is no ticket machine and is presented by some kind of generic box, I fail to see why you are continuing on the line you are.

It is a very simple situation, the box can be misunderstood when a person is told there is no ticket machine.

That was established long ago and all the sense I am getting from the thread is that the stable door of tall Boardsie horses has been opened to talk at people about finer points about what a silver box looks like at different approach angles.

It should be dropped as the constructive posts gave way to general bickering.

Simply put:
- Anyone familiar with these ticket machine enclosures may realise what they are despite the website mis-information.

- Anyone unfamiliar with these ticket machine enclosures may think it is a general box that has nothing to do with the ticketing systems of Irish Rail when the website is giving mis-information.

On the mis-information front, Irish Rail had the station listed as ticket machine-less in January 2013 when Google Maps has a photo of a box in 2009 that is meant to be an enclosure.

Everything that could possibly be said has been said, utterly useless or otherwise.

Good Name

bbk wrote: »

Indeed, I tried Google Maps too to see if it could shed light on the situation but the photo was taken in 2009 so I don't believe that it looks any more like a ticket machine now than it did back then.

I will be driving through Kilcock in a few hours so I will take a look see.

Given that a person is advised by a website that there is no ticket machine and is presented by some kind of generic box, I fail to see why you are continuing on the line you are.

It is a very simple situation, the box can be misunderstood when a person is told there is no ticket machine.

That was established long ago and all the sense I am getting from the thread is that the stable door of tall Boardsie horses has been opened to talk at people about finer points about what a silver box looks like at different approach angles.

It should be dropped as the constructive posts gave way to general bickering.

Simply put:
- Anyone familiar with these ticket machine enclosures may realise what they are despite the website mis-information.

- Anyone unfamiliar with these ticket machine enclosures may think it is a general box that has nothing to do with the ticketing systems of Irish Rail when the website is giving mis-information.

On the mis-information front, Irish Rail had the station listed as ticket machine-less in January 2013 when Google Maps has a photo of a box in 2009 that is meant to be an enclosure.

Everything that could possibly be said has been said, utterly useless or otherwise.

Brilliant post couldn't have put it better myself

n0brain3r

Just passed the station and had a quick look if you approach by foot or even if you park in certain spots there is no indication that a ticket machine exits you're looking at the back / side of it. Once you enter the station no signs exist to indicate its existence and you can only briefly see it if you walk towards Maynooth and not at all if you walk the opposite direction. I've attached a pic of the view as you walk to the station I'm on the mobile and can't upload any more but I think this is most important.

Good Name

n0brain3r wrote: »

Just passed the station and had a quick look if you approach by foot or even if you park in certain spots there is no indication that a ticket machine exits you're looking at the back / side of it. Once you enter the station no signs exist to indicate its existence and you can only briefly see it if you walk towards Maynooth and not at all if you walk the opposite direction. I've attached a pic of the view as you walk to the station I'm on the mobile and can't upload any more but I think this is most important.

Thanks for this as the photo shows unless you park in certain spots you don't pass the machine. I have taken a number of pictures and sent them to Irish rail but they don't care.

I'm glad this picture is now up as it should stop any doubt about my view of the machine when I entered the station

Thanks again ðŸ˜႒

January

To be fair if I walked down the steps towards the station and saw that I'd assume it was a machine to pay for parking, not a TVM... but going on the old google maps image that is on the Irish Rail site, the TVM used to face forward (the canopy in the picture suggests it), maybe that's why Hilly Bill is finding it so hard to imagine you not seeing it.

GTE

Most likely though we should try to avoid taking a firm stance with a pic taken in 09.

Many thanks to the member getting the photo. Got one myself but can't upload at the moment. Its remarkable just how badly placed it is for people walking in.

Good Name

bbk wrote: »

Most likely though we should try to avoid taking a firm stance with a pic taken in 09.

Many thanks to the member getting the photo. Got one myself but can't upload at the moment. Its remarkable just how badly placed it is for people walking in.

I agree! Even if they had some sign on the gate asking do you have your tickets or something!

I really feel if someone in Irish rail would look at this from a common sense side this whole issue can be out to bed.

n0brain3r

Why IR didn't install it on the platform is beyond me they could of left in in the original spot adjusted the fencing. Sallins is similar depending on which side of the station you approach you'd never know there was a ticket office or TVM! In fairness to IR when the station building reopens they will have resolved it.

Good Name

n0brain3r wrote: »

Why IR didn't install it on the platform is beyond me they could of left in in the original spot adjusted the fencing. Sallins is similar depending on which side of the station you approach you'd never know there was a ticket office or TVM! In fairness to IR when the station building reopens they will have resolved it.

I agree
.

But in the mean time I'm saddled with this fine and hassle all because I trusted their web site ....

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Hilly Bill

From the new pic i can see why the op didnt see it. From what the op has posted i still find it strange why he was fined in the first place and why the appeal failed. Op ,pop into them asap and talk to them. . While you are in there go to the info desk and ask for a feeback form and explain your issue with the tvm.

Good Name

Hilly Bill wrote: »

From the new pic i can see why the op didnt see it. From what the op has posted i still find it strange why he was fined in the first place and why the appeal failed. Op ,pop into them asap and talk to them. . While you are in there go to the info desk and ask for a feeback form and explain your issue with the tvm.

Thanks Billu going to give that a go next week , fingers crossed it all goes to plan. I really hope common sense prevails

No Pants

OP, it's time to stop the debate, both on here and with Irish Rail. Print out two copies of every photo you have/will have of the station layout and the website statement (very important). Send one set to Irish Rail and tell them that the second set are for the judge. Leave it at that and do not pay the fine.

Good Name

No Pants wrote: »

OP, it's time to stop the debate, both on here and with Irish Rail. Print out two copies of every photo you have/will have of the station layout and the website statement (very important). Send one set to Irish Rail and tell them that the second set are for the judge. Leave it at that and do not pay the fine.

Yea I think I will!
Thanks for all the feedback and help guys