M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

marno21

captainspeed wrote: »

I totally agree, my jaw nearly dropped when I saw that presentation on YouTube, no way type 2 is adequate, it's got to be motorway realistically, Adare is so busy and the traffic volumes are so high. At least we know for certain the Ringaskiddy road will indeed be a motorway, though.

What I don't get is, the M28 was originally to be a standard dual carraigeway with a 100km/h limit, then the engineers decided that seeing as it's a TEN-T Core route, it will be a 100km/h motorway.

Why is this allowed to be a Type 2 DC if so considering there's also a high volume of traffic on this route?

It'll be interesting to see how the route to Foynes from Rathkeale will go too.

spacetweek

Maybe you guys are right and the N21 will indeed be HQDC.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

Maybe you guys are right and the N21 will indeed be HQDC.

It would be ludicrous for it to be anything less.

But then again how ludicrous is it to have had 16-20k vehicles a day passing through a narrow heritage village 2km from the end of a motorway and nothing done about it so far.

clappyhappy

A lot of very unhappy people with the changes to the road between Croagh and Rathkeale. Large chunk of dairy farm and 2 homes gone, access onto existing road would also be gone. Interesting times ahead.....

Cookiemunster

clappyhappy wrote: »

A lot of very unhappy people with the changes to the road between Croagh and Rathkeale. Large chunk of dairy farm and 2 homes gone, access onto existing road would also be gone. Interesting times ahead.....

That's going to happen to some people no matter what route is finally chosen. It also happens with every major road scheme. As the saying goes, you can't make an omelette with out breaking eggs.

clappyhappy

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That's going to happen to some people no matter what route is finally chosen. It also happens with every major road scheme. As the saying goes, you can't make an omelette with out breaking eggs.

I agree completely, but when there is another route that won't take any homes, keep access to existing road but will take a chunk of land that is only for dry stock not dairy and it would keep the new road straight.

rliston

clappyhappy wrote: »

I agree completely, but when there is another route that won't take any homes, keep access to existing road but will take a chunk of land that is only for dry stock not dairy and it would keep the new road straight.

What makes dairy more important than dry stock?

Vanquished

clappyhappy wrote: »

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That's going to happen to some people no matter what route is finally chosen. It also happens with every major road scheme. As the saying goes, you can't make an omelette with out breaking eggs.

I agree completely, but when there is another route that won't take any homes, keep access to existing road but will take a chunk of land that is only for dry stock not dairy and it would keep the new road straight.

A certain alternative route might look preferable from aerial imagery but it never tells the full story. More detailed investigation may reveal ground conditions to be unfavourable or the route may impact on a site of archaeological or historical significance.

Overly linear alignments are avoided these days also. Generous graduated curves are engineered in to route designs to reduce monotony for motorists. Especially on roads with good forward visibility.

nowecant

rliston wrote: »

What makes dairy more important than dry stock?

Dairy cows have to be brought to and from the yard 2 or even 3 times a day. Typically they would be kept within sight of the yard and parlour to shorten transport time. To even expand a dairy farm the farmer almost always has to buy land which adjoins his or at least is close by along the road. With the low rate of land sales in this country that makes it very difficult. So even if they get a large amount of compensation its unlikely that there is any local land they can buy to continue the farm competitively.

Dry stock on the other hand can and are often kept 20+ miles from the home farm. Dry stock animals usually dont get checked every day. Many dry stock farmers will put them into a secure field at the start of a year and only take them out when they are being sold. Its one of the reasons many dry stock fields have small yards in the corner, for TB testing etc. as they don't have to be brought back to the main farm. Dry stock farmers also have a much larger selection of land to expand into or to replace the land they loose to a motorway. essentially any land within ant radius that the farmer is willing to travel.

Often farmers are offered alternative access to their fields via over bridges or under bridges depending on topography. However there are significant issues with this. Many machines cannot fit through or over these, thus limiting what can be done with the fields. I have personally seen under bridges which have flooded up to the roof for weeks at a time. In another case I know of the NRA wanted 3 local farmers to share one under bridge. However this would be unacceptable to many as its impossible to stop the spread of disease. I know many farmers who don't like when a local contractor comes onto their farm with dirty machines, its just not worth the risk anymore.

In short, a road going through a Dairy farm is often fatal to the business. It is not to a dry stock farmer. I understand the road is necessary, and I support it. But I would not wish it on any farmer, dairy especially, who will be affected by it.

marno21

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/217929/bypass-fears-in-croagh-overnew-limerick-to-foynes-road.html

Croagh residents not happy with the lack of a junction.

clappyhappy

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/217929/bypass-fears-in-croagh-overnew-limerick-to-foynes-road.html

Croagh residents not happy with the lack of a junction.

Can't blame them either, giltenanes restaurant will really suffer.

Cookiemunster

clappyhappy wrote: »

Can't blame them either, giltenanes restaurant will really suffer.

Even if there is a junction they're not going to get passing trade as people won't leave the new road to go to Croagh unless its their destination.

Mc Love

I've never stopped there, and I've never heard of anyone stopping there, so the passing trade must be from the locality itself.

ongarboy

Agreed. I've travelled that road 100s of times over the last 20 years and never stopped in Croagh. Most motorists continuing their journey west of Limerick city (if they need to stop at all) just need fuel and refreshments which there are plenty of roadside garages to choose from to facilitate that service. If they really want a proper sit down meal and can't wait for their end destination, then they'd surely pick Adare or possibly wait until NCW or Abbeyfeale for better options.

I think local businesses over estimate the level of business they lose when their town or village is bypassed. Most motorists don't want to spend further time stopping in a congested village they already spent 20 minutes crawling through in first gear at 2 kph.

nowecant

It would also increase the land take significantly, adversely affecting local land owners and farmers who have previously complained.

A silly suggestion

marno21

Tender award for Ground Investigation along the 16km Foynes-Rathkeale road and the 3km link road to Askeaton

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=100800&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Mango Joe

Whats the story with the little spur off towards Askeaton?

- Is that the full extent of it? Living on the N69 and wondering what changes if any to expect.

I know there was originally alternate proposed routes etc. and this was chosen instead.

- As of now I presume the best I can hope for is a lot of the general commuter and HGV traffic to come off the N69 - Is that about it in total would you folks think?

Thanks.

dashoonage

Mango Joe wrote: »

Whats the story with the little spur off towards Askeaton?

- Is that the full extent of it? Living on the N69 and wondering what changes if any to expect.

I know there was originally alternate proposed routes etc. and this was chosen instead.

- As of now I presume the best I can hope for is a lot of the general commuter and HGV traffic to come off the N69 - Is that about it in total would you folks think?

Thanks.

I'd expect a reduction in the speed limits in some areas along the N69.

There seems to be a massive increase in HGV traffic on it recently.

Ardrageen

dashoonage wrote: »

I'd expect a reduction in the speed limits in some areas along the N69.

I hadn't thought about speed reductions. I don't like the sound of that.

Mc Love

dashoonage wrote: »

I'd expect a reduction in the speed limits in some areas along the N69.

There seems to be a massive increase in HGV traffic on it recently.

Thats what happened to the old N7 out towards Nenagh, good part of it at 80 even though there's no need, and littered with speed vans!

spacetweek

Might have, yea - but they would renumber it N52 all the way to Limerick. Limerick to Dundalk traffic should use the M7.

marno21

I reckon the existing N69 between Askeaton and the N18 will remain N69, but the section between Askeaton and Foynes will be detrunked, and the new spur will be the route for N69 traffic.

The new road will likely be a national primary road, the access routes to Dublin Port (M50), Rosslare (N25), Waterford (N29), Dun Laoighre (N31) and Ringaskiddy (N28) are all national primaries, seeing as this is a TEN-T Core Port it'll likely be a national primary too.

spacetweek

What about the rest of the way to Listowel?

dashoonage

I cant ****ing wait for this to be honest lads. The commute on the N69 in the morning is driving me bloody insane lately.

some mornings i do pass a camera van in a 100km zone and think to myself.....he's an optimistic bastard hoping to see anyone reaching 100km .

Mango Joe

dashoonage wrote: »

I cant ****ing wait for this to be honest lads. The commute on the N69 in the morning is driving me bloody insane lately.

some mornings i do pass a camera van in a 100km zone and think to myself.....he's an optimistic bastard hoping to see anyone reaching 100km .

Its the idiot who manages the traffic lights at Clarina cross that I'd like to interview.

- He was a firm believer that nobody on either of the two minor approach roads (Ballybrown/Patrickswell) should ever have to wait more than 15 seconds for a green light while at the same time there's a 2 km, 20 minute tailback in each direction on the N69 itself.

Ardrageen

Those lights at Clarina are maddening alright at times.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

What about the rest of the way to Listowel?

In my description above the N69 from Askeaton to the N18 will remain N69 and the N69 from Foynes to Tralee will remain N69. The existing N69 from Foynes to Askeaton will be detrunked and traffic will be sent along the new N69 to its junction with the N3x west of Askeaton, where it will multiplex with the new N3x until Foynes and become N69 again

The fastest way from Limerick to Listowel after this will be the N21 to Rathkeale and then either the R523 to Listowel or continue on the N21 to Abbeyfeale and use the R555

dashoonage

I reckon they will put a weight limit on the old road in places as well...possibly the ferry bridge...to force HGV traffic to use the new road.

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

In my description above the N69 from Askeaton to the N18 will remain N69 and the N69 from Foynes to Tralee will remain N69. The existing N69 from Foynes to Askeaton will be detrunked and traffic will be sent along the new N69 to its junction with the N3x west of Askeaton, where it will multiplex with the new N3x until Foynes and become N69 again

The fastest way from Limerick to Listowel after this will be the N21 to Rathkeale and then either the R523 to Listowel or continue on the N21 to Abbeyfeale and use the R555

Thanks Marno, that's what I meant