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M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

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    #332
    cupthehand1
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭cupthehand1


    Croagh Junction update


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    #333
    cupthehand1
    Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭cupthehand1


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Small update. They've decided to go with the Eastern option for the Croagh junction. https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/public-notices/foynes-limerick-road-improvement-scheme-croagh-junction-update

    Just beat me to it!!!!


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    #334
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Two very important words in that article

    MOTORWAY ORDER

    :D !!!


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    #335
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    What are the chances that the entire road will be numbered N7 to Foynes?


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    #336
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Limerick74


    Middle Man wrote: »
    What are the chances that the entire road will be numbered N7 to Foynes?

    M21 to Rathkeale and the N69 (or other) from Rathkeale to Foynes


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    #337
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Middle Man wrote: »
    What are the chances that the entire road will be numbered N7 to Foynes?

    The N/M7 stops at Rosbrien at the M20 /N18 junction. They'd have to redesignate the current M20 as M7 if they were to do that. It's following the N21 to Rathkeale so I'd expect M21 as far as there, with a different (possibly new) N number for the Foynes spur.


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    #338
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Middle Man wrote: »
    What are the chances that the entire road will be numbered N7 to Foynes?

    The N/M7 stops at Rosbrien at the M20 /N18 junction. They'd have to redesignate the current M20 as M7 if they were to do that. It's following the N21 to Rathkeale so I'd expect M21 as far as there, with a different (possibly new) N number for the Foynes spur.

    N39 would do for the spur.


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    #339
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Middle Man wrote: »
    What are the chances that the entire road will be numbered N7 to Foynes?

    The N/M7 stops at Rosbrien at the M20 /N18 junction. They'd have to redesignate the current M20 as M7 if they were to do that. It's following the N21 to Rathkeale so I'd expect M21 as far as there, with a different (possibly new) N number for the Foynes spur.
    That M21 would be the shortest motorway in the country (about 20 km, shorter than the M17's 26-ish).

    I'm somewhat surprised that it looks like they have made no change to the plans for the M21 to directly continue from the M20 after the Attyflin junction. I would have assumed that now we know the M20 is cooking again things would have changed, even if it was just a more explicit question mark over the design. Judging by this plan they are assuming that nothing will change with the Attyflin junction in the medium term. It must seems odd to have a situation where you would have to leave the M20 to stay on the M20 (even odder than the current situation where you leave the M20 to get on the N20).


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    #340
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Middle Man wrote: »
    What are the chances that the entire road will be numbered N7 to Foynes?

    The N/M7 stops at Rosbrien at the M20 /N18 junction. They'd have to redesignate the current M20 as M7 if they were to do that. It's following the N21 to Rathkeale so I'd expect M21 as far as there, with a different (possibly new) N number for the Foynes spur.
    That M21 would be the shortest motorway in the country (about 20 km, shorter than the M17's 26-ish).

    I'm somewhat surprised that it looks like they have made no change to the plans for the M21 to directly continue from the M20 after the Attyflin junction. I would have assumed that now we know the M20 is cooking again things would have changed, even if it was just a more explicit question mark over the design. Judging by this plan they are assuming that nothing will change with the Attyflin junction in the medium term. It must seems odd to have a situation where you would have to leave the M20 to stay on the M20 (even odder than the current situation where you leave the M20 to get on the N20).

    M2 is shorter.


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    #341
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    M2 the shortest motorway in the country, and if the M28 can get past the local moanbags it'll be shorter too.

    The likelyhood is the motorway from Attyflin/M20 to Rathkeale will be M21 and a new national primary will be designated from Rathkeale to Foynes, likely N34. The N69 will likely stay the same from Limerick to Askeaton and the N69 multiplex with the new road along the offline section from Askeaton to Foynes.

    M20 could come into play with junction design if it gets far enough.


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    #342
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Ahem.

    A8(M) up north is a mile long.

    /Pedantic mode!


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    #343
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Ahem.

    A8(M) up north is a mile long.

    /Pedantic mode!
    If we were including NI motorways I'd have included the M3, M5 & M22!


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    #344
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    marno21 wrote: »
    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    Ahem.

    A8(M) up north is a mile long.

    /Pedantic mode!
    If we were including NI motorways I'd have included the M3, M5 & M22!
    And the NI M12..


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    #345
    nordydan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭nordydan


    marno21 wrote: »
    M2 the shortest motorway in the country, and if the M28 can get past the local moanbags it'll be shorter too.

    The likelyhood is the motorway from Attyflin/M20 to Rathkeale will be M21 and a new national primary will be designated from Rathkeale to Foynes, likely N34. The N69 will likely stay the same from Limerick to Askeaton and the N69 multiplex with the new road along the offline section from Askeaton to Foynes.

    M20 could come into play with junction design if it gets far enough.
    I disagree, with good links to both Foynes & Askeaton I think it will become the N69, with Askeaton to Limerick downgraded to a R road


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    #346
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Given Foynes status as a Tier 1 Port, a national secondary that eventually leads to Listowel wouldn't make sense

    N19, N27, N28, N29, N31 are all routes simply because they lead to an important port or airport (Shannon Airport, Cork Airport, Ringaskiddy Port, Belview Port, Dun Laoighre).

    N69 is designated as such as it's a tourist route, Foynes would require something more


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    #347
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I think when the M20 is built it’ll free flow off the M20 east of Attyflin. A short piece of M20 between the new junction and Attyflin will be redesignated M21.

    They’ll design the free flow in such a way that you don’t have to turn off to stay on when on the M20.


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    #348
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I think when the M20 is built it’ll free flow off the M20 east of Attyflin. A short piece of M20 between the new junction and Attyflin will be redesignated M21.

    They’ll design the free flow in such a way that you don’t have to turn off to stay on when on the M20.

    The "M21" will be a direct extension of the M20 which currently terminates at the Attyflin junction, and will more than likely be in place before the new M20 is even started. A freeflow motorway to motorway interchange will hopefully be built, presumably just south west of the existing junction 5. It's debatable if all movements will be facilitated i.e. M21 east to M20 south.

    I'd imagine the M20-M21 will remain the mainline as this is the predominant traffic movement. The new M20 will split from the mainline at Attyflin requiring southbound traffic to turn off in similar arrangement to the M7-M8 de-merge. We better not wind up with a variant of Rathmorrissey!!


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    #349
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    There will have to be full movement between M20 and M21.

    Foynes-Cork traffic without trucks having to leave the motorway

    M20 will likely diverge west of the existing N20 junction, which will probably be closed up. Patrickswell access via J4


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    #350
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    If the mainline remains effectively as it is, M20 -> M21 with a new free-flow turn-off for motorway traffic towards Cork, wouldn't it make sense to rename the whole Rathkeale - Limerick mainline as the M21, and have the M20 officially begin at Attyflin? It sounds like the same situation as the M7/M8 junction.


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    #351
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    If the mainline remains effectively as it is, M20 -> M21 with a new free-flow turn-off for motorway traffic towards Cork, wouldn't it make sense to rename the whole Rathkeale - Limerick mainline as the M21, and have the M20 officially begin at Attyflin? It sounds like the same situation as the M7/M8 junction.

    I'd say the higher number, 20, would take preference, first.


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    #352
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    BelfastVanMan wrote: »
    I'd say the higher number, 20, would take preference, first.
    That's why I was thinking that a re-designation of all sections to N7 would make things simpler on a map instead of having to go N7, N20, N21 and N34 for Foynes (OK, 2 TOTSOs but still) or N7, N20 and N21 for Kerry - that would be just N7 and N21. Then there'd be N7 and N20 for Cork - no difference - TOTSO on the M7 instead of the M20.


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    #353
    Vanquished
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    Attached is an early design proposal from 2007/8 for a replacement Attlyflin interchange. Just as they went f***ing around with the original route of the Adare bypass. Hopefully they'll dig this one out again and include an M21 east to M20 south movement.

    I'd settle for something like this: :cool:

    1024px-Interchange-colour-img_0526b.jpG


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    #354
    Aontachtoir
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Vanquished wrote: »
    Attached is an early design proposal from 2007/8 for a replacement Attlyflin interchange. Just as they went f***ing around with the original route of the Adare bypass. Hopefully they'll dig this one out again and include an M21 east to M20 south movement.

    I'd settle for something like this: :cool:

    1024px-Interchange-colour-img_0526b.jpG
    This looks good - although they'd need to get a move on if they want to include it on the M21 plans before they submit to ABP!


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    #355
    medoc
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭medoc


    Vanquished wrote: »
    Attached is an early design proposal from 2007/8 for a replacement Attlyflin interchange. Just as they went f***ing around with the original route of the Adare bypass. Hopefully they'll dig this one out again and include an M21 east to M20 south movement.

    I'd settle for something like this: :cool:

    1024px-Interchange-colour-img_0526b.jpG


    Hopefully it includes all movements and also two lanes on at least the main movements. M20 to M7 at Limerick for example is sometimes is a bit busy for 1 lane.


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    #356
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Aontachtoir wrote: »
    This looks good - although they'd need to get a move on if they want to include it on the M21 plans before they submit to ABP!

    They can't add something like this to the M21. Any such junction will be built as part of the M20 project as nobody has any idea where the new M20 is going to join the current M20.


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    #357
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,410 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Got confirmation during the week that the section from Patrickswell to Rathkeale will be motorway.

    Say hello to the M21.

    It's a long way we've come since the Adare bypass was going to be a twisty mess tacked onto the M20 Croom junction. We now have a motorway deep into County Limerick with good access to Croagh, Adare and Rathkeale and something that will totally solve the traffic issues in Adare.


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    #358
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    ...all paid for by Europe under TEN-T, which is a fantastic way to use the money principally to bypass Adare, but also to provide much improved access to a swathe of the area.


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    #359
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Limerick74


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    ...all paid for by Europe under TEN-T, which is a fantastic way to use the money principally to bypass Adare, but also to provide much improved access to a swathe of the area.

    There is no capital funding available from Europe for this TEN-T road. This scheme would be funded from the exchequer as it stands. Things may change before it goes to construction but it’s not on one of the corridors that attract some EU funding (10-15% max).


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    #360
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    There is no capital funding available from Europe for this TEN-T road. This scheme would be funded from the exchequer as it stands. Things may change before it goes to construction but it’s not on one of the corridors that attract some EU funding (10-15% max).

    Yes it is, open this link, zoom in to Ireland and click Layers->Core/Compr. Network and tick the EU Member States box. Red is rail, green is road. You'll see N69 to Foynes marked in green.


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    #361
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Limerick74


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Yes it is, open this link, zoom in to Ireland and click Layers->Core/Compr. Network and tick the EU Member States box. Red is rail, green is road. You'll see N69 to Foynes marked in green.

    That just shows what is the CORE & Comprehensive network. The corridors are on their own tab and the only corridor (North Sea Mediterranean) that is within Ireland goes from Belfast - Dublin - Cork. There is only EU funding mechanisms available for Road schemes along these corridors at the moment and still only limited. This is not the same type of funding that the MIUs availed of during the 90s & 00s.


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