M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

Chris_5339762

HQDC basically is M anyway, so slap the blue signs on!

marno21

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Quick question why are they building it as M21, rather than HQDC. Is it down to EU and the port or does the volume of traffic justify it.

Both. The volumes at Adare justify a Type 1 DC, and as it’s TEN-T core it has to meet those standards too, but the former point overrules the latter anyway

TII seem to be following the fairly sensible policy of all new “HQDC” schemes being motorway, given that there’s no actual cost difference between new build HQDCs and motorways unless the price of blue pigment has gone up

Jamie2k9

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

HQDC basically is M anyway, so slap the blue signs on!

Yeah what I meant to say was 2+2 non grade separated or whatever the official name.

TII seem to be following the fairly sensible policy of all new “HQDC” schemes being motorway, given that there’s no actual cost difference between new build HQDCs and motorways unless the price of blue pigment has gone up

Good to see the change, was annoyed when Waterford City Bypass wasn't classed as M25. Hopefully with some of New Ross HQDC and eventual completion of Glenmore section it might be reclassified.

marno21

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/434259/minister-shane-ross-under-fire-over-delay-in-crucial-limerick-bypass-project.html

Detailed explanation about the delays

pajoguy

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/434259/minister-shane-ross-under-fire-over-delay-in-crucial-limerick-bypass-project.html

Detailed explanation about the delays

I doubt they are waiting on his decision whether its dual or single carriageway..... These guys are getting into election mode so plenty mud slinging at any opportunity. Although Ross deserves all he gets.

Cookiemunster

pajoguy wrote: »

I doubt they are waiting on his decision whether its dual or single carriageway..... These guys are getting into election mode so plenty mud slinging at any opportunity. Although Ross deserves all he gets.

An engineer from either TII or the RDO (can't remember which) was already quoted last week telling councilors that the decision as to whether the Foynes link would be single or dual carriageway was the cause of the delay. So you are wrong to doubt the info.

pajoguy

Cookiemunster wrote: »

An engineer from either TII or the RDO (can't remember which) was already quoted last week telling councilors that the decision as to whether the Foynes link would be single or dual carriageway was the cause of the delay. So you are wrong to doubt the info.

Yes it was the cause of the delay but its been made out that its sitting on the ministers desk waiting for him to toss a coin.....

Phileas Frog

pajoguy wrote: »

Yes it was the cause of the delay but its been made out that its sitting on the ministers desk waiting for him to toss a coin.....

That's exactly where it is

medoc

Cookiemunster wrote: »

An engineer from either TII or the RDO (can't remember which) was already quoted last week telling councilors that the decision as to whether the Foynes link would be single or dual carriageway was the cause of the delay. So you are wrong to doubt the info.

There shouldn’t be any decision to make. The traffic levels today and the projected levels on opening with a proper amount of future proofing, and safety considerations should determine the road type. Ross should have no input into what is an engineering decision. He surely decides if the project as designed goes ahead or not if he’s not too busy popping up on golf courses for photo ops.

road_high

Another scandalous delay after delay after delay. I’d say it’s more like they haven’t the funding. Painful idiots

marno21

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/435346/government-committed-to-adare-bypass-says-limerick-minister.html

The level of rubbish this fella spouts never ceases to amaze me along with the breathtaking arrogance accompanying it.

In other news, I don’t think the Green Party are getting much fanfare suggesting schemes like this one should be canned.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/claims-traffic-congestion-adare-affects-everyone-travelling-south-west/

Limerick74

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0808/1067590-adare-manor-ryder-cup/

marno21

There was a 5km tailback into Adare yesterday evening, and a significant tailback in the other direction. These tailbacks happen (to a lesser extent) every weekday and at peak times on weekend also.

It's a depressing reflection of Irish transport policy that the above isn't the main driver behind pushing this scheme but a three day golf event in 7 years time is the main driver at present.

What's even worse is that the M21 is being built as part of an indirect EU sanctioned requirement to connect Foynes Port. God knows where we would be without the TEN-T Core requirement.

spacetweek

The EU is a godsend in this country for kicking politicians up the arse.

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

What's even worse is that the M21 is being built as part of an indirect EU sanctioned requirement to connect Foynes Port. God knows where we would be without the TEN-T Core requirement.

Fair play to Limerick council (or whoever it was) who fudged the Adare bypass into the Foynes solution.

marno21

Cabinet to approve submission of scheme to An Bord Pleanála today

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/489836/government-set-to-approve-next-stage-of-limerick-to-foynes-road.html

Finally.

pajoguy

marno21 wrote: »

Cabinet to approve submission of scheme to An Bord Pleanála today

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/489836/government-set-to-approve-next-stage-of-limerick-to-foynes-road.html

Finally.

Ehh 6 years to complete once planning is received......Surely not

Cookiemunster

pajoguy wrote: »

Ehh 6 years to complete once planning is received......Surely not

A year at ABP, two years for procurement and three years to build. Unfortunately that's how it works.

marno21

pajoguy wrote: »

Ehh 6 years to complete once planning is received......Surely not

I would say it’s doable in 6 years from now provided there are no delays with An Bord Pleanála and the advance works are rendered for ASAP after planning approval like they are doing with the N5 scheme.

MayoSalmon

Cookiemunster wrote: »

A year at ABP, two years for procurement and three years to build. Unfortunately that's how it works.

Incredible

marno21

Not just procurement. The N5 scheme is scheduled for 2 years preconstruction but thats procurement, archaeology, service/utility diversion, land purchase etc.

marno21

Approved by Government

16.5km of motorway and 15.5km of "dual carriageway"
Projected cost €450m
Construction by 2022, open by 2026

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/councils-hoping-to-begin-construction-of-adare-by-pass-by-2022-after-lodging-450m-plan-960668.html

road_high

That’s still at least 6 or 7 years minimum of Adare to endure- I think that’s a pretty dreadful prospect myself.badly need a critical infrastructure fast track mechanism I believe, it’s that important

spacetweek

road_high wrote: »

That’s still at least 6 or 7 years minimum of Adare to endure- I think that’s a pretty dreadful prospect myself.badly need a critical infrastructure fast track mechanism I believe, it’s that important

I looked this up there and the Ryder Cup is taking place in Adare in 2026, but the road project is due to be completed by 2024. Not sure why 2024, they will be able to be up to 2 years late and still make it on time for the Cup.

road_high

spacetweek wrote: »

I looked this up there and the Ryder Cup is taking place in Adare in 2026, but the road project is due to be completed by 2024. Not sure why 2024, they will be able to be up to 2 years late and still make it on time for the Cup.

Do you honestly think it will be finished by then though? Major projects seem to be taking an ice age to get underway and built these days unlike the heady days of the late 2000s

Cookiemunster

road_high wrote: »

Do you honestly think it will be finished by then though? Major projects seem to be taking an ice age to get underway and built these days unlike the heady days of the late 2000s

I'd expect at least the M21 from the M20 junction to the Croagh junction to be open by September 2026 when the tournament starts. There's pressure on to have Adare bypassed in time.

Cookiemunster

Here's a breakdown of the project from the LCCC site.

The road is comprised of the construction of 15.5km of dual carriageway from Foynes to Rathkeale along with the construction of 16.4km of motorway connecting Rathkeale to the existing motorway network at Attyflin (Junction 5 on N-M20/N21).

The Foynes to Limerick Road (including Adare Bypass) also includes:

• A 1.9km of single carriageway to connect to Askeaton
• A Heavy Goods Vehicle Service Area at Foynes
• Five proposed at-grade roundabout type junctions providing access points to the Scheme(s) at Foynes, Ballyclogh, Askeaton and two at Rathkeale
• Two proposed grade separated junctions at Adare and Croagh, including structures, link roads and roundabouts (six in total)
• A c200m long clear-span bridge over the River Maigue at Adare
• A bridge over the River Deel and other smaller river bridges
• Three bridges over the Foynes to Limerick railway line
• Overbridges and underbridges to accommodate public and private roads and the Great Southern Greenway Limerick
• Drainage and Utility diversions
• Realignment of existing roads, access roads, accommodation works, landscaping and ancillary works

marno21

2nd death in the space of 10 days along the stretch of road this scheme will bypass tonight, after a two car collision

Good Lord the sooner this happens the better.

Limerick74

The EIAR is published See https://www.foyneslimerick.ie/

marno21

Limerick74 wrote: »

The EIAR is published See https://www.foyneslimerick.ie/

Fantastic. Hopefully a reasonably quick stint with An Bord Pleanala