EU committee to investigate lack of infrastructure in the west.

Just announced today that Knock airport is after having its 2nd busiest month in its history with 85'000 passengers with increases mainly due to German tourists.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/knock-airport-1075036-Sep2013/

Yet they still cannot get reasonable government support to even cover air traffic control or emergency services as per the other airports, in the past you had other governments even trying to close the place. You have to wonder what kind of muppets we elect in this country.

The road between Knock and Sligo to the North is probably the worst section of road between Donegal(letterkenny) and Cork city. Not too many accidents because you cannot drive fast on it or are normally behind a tractor for 20 miles, yet it is supposed to be a national primary route to the North of the country :eek:

notharrypotter

Yet they still cannot get reasonable government support to even cover air traffic control or emergency services as per the other airports,

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Knock airport a private company?

Also it currently receives OPEX (Operational Expenditure support) and CAPEX (Capital Expenditure support).
So what more do you want?

Spend the funds available upgrading the road which will benefit the area more.

opiniated

Godge wrote: »

You haven't included the motorways in the North which would give the map a different complexion. Donegal wouldn't look much different to Kerry or Wexford then.

I don't think comparing the North to Kerry or Wexford is reasonable, owing to different funding sources.

If you were to check the Letterkenny to Monaghan route, which is the main link road for Donegal to Dublin, I think you'd find it needs upgrading.

You would also find that it's been planned for years, and has been delayed more than once, if I remember correctly.

Godge

opiniated wrote: »

I don't think comparing the North to Kerry or Wexford is reasonable, owing to different funding sources.

If you were to check the Letterkenny to Monaghan route, which is the main link road for Donegal to Dublin, I think you'd find it needs upgrading.

You would also find that it's been planned for years, and has been delayed more than once, if I remember correctly.

Yes, but it goes through another jurisdiction.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Knock airport a private company?

No, its a non profit trust ran for the people of the region. It is owned by all people of the region and only purpose is to improve access and business opportunity for the region. Many of the directors of the board work there for nothing. It makes a tiny profit most years but not enough to do anything with. It certainly contributes a lot more in taxes and revenues(€117M) than it receives. I see nothing wrong with the government owning it if i didn't think they would put it in jeopardy at the expense of seeing Shannon stay open at all costs, no matter how inefficient that airport is.

Alot of voluntary construction work and fund raising by locals was what put the Airport there in the first place. It was only set-up by M Horan as the government of the time were doing to improve conditions in the region.

The Sligo road is the only really bad access road, but does need doing. Airport Funding required is only enough to improve the business park, expand the landing apron and make more room in the departure lounge, so you are talking small money but a lot for a small airport to save when it is a community airport.

Shannon will receive 14 million every year till eternity in rents from the no tax zone, a New empty terminal, free state services and all debts written off all gifted by the government last May from the tax payer(estimated value 300 million) that would be the equivalent of 5 Billion for Dublin Airport or 150 Million for Knock. Its passenger numbers are only 700K more than Knock, that is where i think money is been wasted not Knock.

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/3596-west-lobby-group-takes-a-firm-airport-stand-government-urged-to-provide-funding-to-secure-facilitys-future

notharrypotter

Company
Number 259618
Name THE ALLIANCE KNOCK AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION LIMITED
Address KNOCK INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
CHARLESTOWN
CO MAYO
Registered 15/01/1997
Status Dissolved

Effective Date 16/06/2000
Last AR Date Not Available
Next AR Date 15/07/2002
Last Accounts to Date Not Available

From the companies office your charity no longer exists.

Me thinks its a private company now.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

From the companies office your charity no longer exists.

Me thinks its a private company now.

Can't see where in my post i said it was a charity :rolleyes:.

Operated by a Trust

From its own website.

Ireland West Airport Knock is an independent Airport governed by a Trust where all profits are re-invested in the Airport and everything that is done to support the Airport will support the region it serves. It is against this background that the Board and management believe it is both prudent and necessary to adapt, and invest in, the management structure to support the Airport’s development.

The airport is run by CADCO (Connacht Airport Development Company Limited) of which Liam Scollan is Chairman and Joe Gilmore is MD. CADCO is delegated (sub-contracted) to run the airport legally by the Horan International Airport Trust, which is made up of eight voluntary trustees.

notharrypotter

Company
Number 78973
Name CONNAUGHT AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT COMPANY LIMITED
Address KNOCK INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
KNOCK
CO. MAYO
Registered 01/12/1980
Status Normal

Effective Date 01/12/1980
Last AR Date 28/09/2012
Next AR Date 28/09/2013
Last Accounts to Date 31/12/2011

From the companies office.

Its still a private company.

where all profits are re-invested in the Airport

All business who wish to succeed will invest in their business.

Couldn't find Monseigneur Horan in CRO.

No government support?
http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/Mayo/News/ConnTel/96Jun/96Jun05/Horan.htm

KNOCK Airport received a birthday gift to mark a decade in business which will eliminate 95 per cent of diversions.
It came from Tourism and Trade Minister Enda Kenny when he told the Airport Board of directors that the Government had approved a £2m package to fund a runway lighting system at the base.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

From the companies office.

Its still a private company.



All business who wish to succeed will invest in their business.

Couldn't find Monseigneur Horan in CRO. He's dead!!!

No government support?
http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/Mayo/News/ConnTel/96Jun/96Jun05/Horan.htm
Quote:
KNOCK Airport received a birthday gift to mark a decade in business which will eliminate 95 per cent of diversions.
It came from Tourism and Trade Minister Enda Kenny when he told the Airport Board of directors that the Government had approved a £2m package to fund a runway lighting system at the base.

You made my point, thanks.

JillyQ

I drive between galway & cork at least once a week both the M18 & the M20 into galway & cork need to be extended into the outskirts of both cities

JillyQ

JillyQ wrote: »

I drive between galway & cork at least once a week both the M18 & the M20 into galway & cork need to be extended into the outskirts of both cities

The M18 when constructed(might be approved for starting before Christmas due to pressure coming from lots of different areas) will link onto the Dublin road which has Motorway access to BallyBrit. They do need the city bypass that is been in the planning process for a decade due to one mans objections.

opiniated

Godge wrote: »

Yes, but it goes through another jurisdiction.

Exactly.

I believe there were plans made by both Governments to share the costs of an upgrade to the Letterkenny to Dublin route, but they've been shelved. (More than once, I think?)

Any other routes through the North are of little to no benefit for the purpose of connecting the regions in the Republic.

It's a bit like comparing the motorways in border areas of France and Spain, and saying the people in Spain are well serviced by the motorways in France. ie. Disingenuous.

notharrypotter

It makes a tiny profit most years

Prior to 2009 it got 15,275,589 support from the state in CAPEX alone, and 3,213,159 in OPEX.

Source 2010 value for money report.

Fix the road it would be more useful.

notharrypotter

notharrypotter wrote: »

Prior to 2009 it got 15,275,589 support from the state in CAPEX alone, and 3,213,159 in OPEX.

Source 2010 value for money report.

Fix the road it would be more useful.

Wow thats a whole 600K/year:eek: you really don't like Knock to get any money at all. I'd say the DOT Christmas party costs more.

K-9

Godge wrote: »

You haven't included the motorways in the North which would give the map a different complexion. Donegal wouldn't look much different to Kerry or Wexford then.

Godge wrote: »

Yes, but it goes through another jurisdiction.

Kind of makes me wonder why you brought it up in the first place, if you are then going to dismiss it lightly like that!

In fairness motorways in the North are all Belfast centric, the North has fallen behind in regard to road investment. There's a single/dual type carriageway road planned for Aughnacloy to Derry through Strabane so that will go a long way improving access to Donegal. AFAIK the Irish Government is still going to help with money but not as much as originally planned. The planners fecked up as well, and that's delayed it by a couple of years at least.

opiniated

opiniated wrote: »

Exactly.

I believe there were plans made by both Governments to share the costs of an upgrade to the Letterkenny to Dublin route, but they've been shelved. (More than once, I think?)

Any other routes through the North are of little to no benefit for the purpose of connecting the regions in the Republic.

It's a bit like comparing the motorways in border areas of France and Spain, and saying the people in Spain are well serviced by the motorways in France. ie. Disingenuous.

Its a pity the two governments couldn't agree to improve the road from Sligo - Enniskillen and onto the NI motorway network, its a relatively small stretch and would bring lots more tourists south.

notharrypotter

Wow thats a whole 600K/year

The information covers the period 2000 / 2009 therefore the correct figure per year is approx 1.85Million.


Using a funny kind of maths that manages to get 600000 per year so who has pocketed the other 1.2 million every year?


But it is clear that the State is supporting Knock Airport.

gaius c

SpaceTime wrote: »

The thing is that people on this thread are assuming that Castlebar etc have "reasonable population sizes"


Castlebar is a small town by EU standards. It has about 12,000 at a push including hinterland which for example is basically the population of say one of Galway's suburbs.

I don't see massive power infrastructure in similarity sized remote towns in western France or Scotland either.

Also the EU hasn't sent anyone. The European parliament has responded to a petition raised online by locals.

The decision making on money spending really doesn't happen in the European Parliament it happens at the Commission which is the body insisting we cut spending. The parliament has some "codecision" powers but it is not an executive body. The main powers it has are of oversight, investigation and suggesting legislation. Its a fairly underpowered parliament in most respects.

There is a lot of media misunderstanding of what the difference between the EU Parliament raising an issue and an EU policy decision is.

There are very very few EU funds that do not require the government to cough up a large % of co-funding too. They typically would need to find 10 to 50% of the project so I can't see that happening given that there is no cash in the exchequer and spending is being cut.

If the EU wants to pay 100% apply away!

There's a reason the likes of Coca Cola have set up in Ballina and Abbott in Sligo & Longford and it's because they don't want to pay the OTT costs that would come from setting up in a large urban area. They correctly assume that people will "come to them" for jobs thus they can set up in areas with the right facilities and lower cost bases. The population of the local area is of little consideration to companies when they set up manufacturing facilities.

Now if you put all your industrial capacity & facilities in the most expensive places (cities), then you're going to kill industry stone dead.

sydneybound

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a pity the two governments couldn't agree to improve the road from Sligo - Enniskillen and onto the NI motorway network, its a relatively small stretch and would bring lots more tourists south.

That stretch of road really needs upgrading, so dangerous in parts. Both sides of the broader would benefit from the upgrade.

JillyQ

Deleted User wrote: »

The M18 when constructed(might be approved for starting before Christmas due to pressure coming from lots of different areas) will link onto the Dublin road which has Motorway access to BallyBrit. They do need the city bypass that is been in the planning process for a decade due to one mans objections.

That would be brillant if it actually happened. Your right about the bypass. What i really dont understand is why they cant put a tunnel under Corrib like they did with Limerick, Cork and Dublin Cities.

antoobrien

JillyQ wrote: »

That would be brillant if it actually happened. Your right about the bypass. What i really dont understand is why they cant put a tunnel under Corrib like they did with Limerick, Cork and Dublin Cities.

Not economical (twice the cost for the tunnel section than the entire road) and would do more damage to the "rare limestone slab" (limestone rare in Galway, whoever made that decision needs to visit specasvers) that's protected under EU law.

robp

antoobrien wrote: »

Not economical (twice the cost for the tunnel section than the entire road) and would do more damage to the "rare limestone slab" (limestone rare in Galway, whoever made that decision needs to visit specasvers) that's protected under EU law.

Environmental designations refer to the EU as a whole. Limestone pavement is rare in the EU. Limestone pavement is rare in Ireland as a whole also. If these designations weren't in place half of the Burren would be gone by now and sold off in British garden centres.

antoobrien

robp wrote: »

Environmental designations refer to the EU as a whole. Limestone pavement is rare in the EU. Limestone pavement is rare in Ireland as a whole also.

Is it f**k rare in irealnd. The reason we have so many stone walls is all the limestone, whcih comes from that limestone pavement.

robp wrote: »

If these designations weren't in place half of the Burren would be gone by now and sold off in British garden centres.

Again bull, you can (and still do) get stone from the burren area for use in paving and cladding.

gaius c

gaius c wrote: »

There's a reason the likes of Coca Cola have set up in Ballina and Abbott in Sligo & Longford and it's because they don't want to pay the OTT costs that would come from setting up in a large urban area. They correctly assume that people will "come to them" for jobs thus they can set up in areas with the right facilities and lower cost bases. The population of the local area is of little consideration to companies when they set up manufacturing facilities.

Now if you put all your industrial capacity & facilities in the most expensive places (cities), then you're going to kill industry stone dead.

Does that not put paid to some of the earlier arguments about infrastructure and the OP if Ballina can support Coca Cola, Westport can support Allergan and Castlebar can support Baxter?

They are all employers that any town or city would welcome.

gaius c

Deleted User wrote: »

Does that not put paid to some of the earlier arguments about infrastructure and the OP if Ballina can support Coca Cola, Westport can support Allergan and Castlebar can support Baxter?

They are all employers that any town or city would welcome.

I'm in that industry and I can tell you that we have lost investment because Dublin was the only option presented to them at the time, due to required infrastructure not being available elsewhere.

gaius c

gaius c wrote: »

I'm in that industry and I can tell you that we have lost investment because Dublin was the only option presented to them at the time, due to required infrastructure not being available elsewhere.

If the infrastructure was only available in Dublin would it not suggest that the requirement was something out of ordinary?

Living in Galway I don't expect to have all the facilities and amenities Dublin have available to me on my doorstep and am certain that both Galway and myself personally have lost out on opportunities as a result.

Edit: I'm sure if a company gave a firm commitment to invest depending on certain items of infrastructure it would be considered.

Coming back to the OP - I doubt anyone has said we want to be able to take a train from Kiltimagh to Swinford

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If the infrastructure was only available in Dublin would it not suggest that the requirement was something out of ordinary?

Manufacturing facilities, rates, wages, are all lower outside of Dublin. This is what i would be looking at first if i was a manufacturer, of course this would be assuming that basic infrastructure like roads, electricity and telecoms were available.

Often the only infrastructure needed is lots of space.

Deleted User wrote: »

Coming back to the OP - I doubt anyone has said we want to be able to take a train from Kiltimagh to Swinford

I don't think anybody wants or expects that.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Manufacturing facilities, rates, wages, are all lower outside of Dublin. This is what i would be looking at first if i was a manufacturer, of course this would be assuming that basic infrastructure like roads, electricity and telecoms were available.

Often the only infrastructure needed is lots of space.

It is somewhat of a big assumption to make that the things you list are basic - the infrastructure for a county town with an existing big employer might be more than sufficient but to scale that up to the needs for example of a new pharmaceutical plant could be very costly. To have those elements in place in advance without any explicit need would also be costly.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think anybody wants or expects that.

It is the goal of West=On=Track, the petitioners, for this to be possible.

Established in May 2003, West=On=Track is a community-based campaign in the towns, villages and cities of the West of Ireland aimed at re-opening the Western Rail Corridor, a passenger and freight railway line which runs from Sligo to Limerick, and one of the single most valuable pieces of infrastructure in the whole island of Ireland. There are currently West=On=Track affiliated groups or committees in over 30 towns and cities in the west of Ireland.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It is the goal of West=On=Track, the petitioners, for this to be possible.

They would be better concentrating their efforts on other things.

I know this may sound looney but....If there was ever one big project i would like to see go ahead to help the manufacturing base in the whole country its is....

A train tunnel from Dublin to the UK. The biggest cost in the factory i work and most of the others in this country is transport costs to the continent. Imagine the cost saving of loading a train this morning in Galway and it arriving direct to Berlin this evening. Also The shannon estuary could be used as an alternative to Rotterdam as a first stop for European and UK cargo from the US. With the freight been transported by Rail from there.

I cannot see a lot of the heavy goods manufacturers staying put and been able to compete with their competitors in europe.

SpaceTime

I don't think that would bring you all those advantages for a number of reasons.

1) Any tunnel would cost a fortune and those costs would have to be recovered by high fares on relatively light traffic compared to the channel tunnel.
2) Rotterdam is basically at the heart of central Europe and in reach of massive markets and massive manufacturing.

Why would anyone locate a port on a far flung island, off another island that is linked by two rail tunnels?

There's Rotterdam and quite a few other major ports MUCH better linked to customers and markets.

It just doesn't add up or make sense.

There would be absolutely no advantage for shipping via Shannon at all, other than for Irish companies really. It's just way too awkward a location and you're adding in all sorts of logistical problems that would not really give any advantages over just shipping a container vessel straight to a major continental port or to the UK if that's where you're going.
In order of size :

1) Roterdam
2) Antwerp
3) Hamberg
4) Bremerhaven

ALL of which are within pretty much the same area.

In the top 18 you've also got Bruges-Zeebrugge, Le Harve and you could probably throw in Felixstowe and Southampton in England too.

You've other cities with smaller ports dotted around too all of which are massively better connected to major markets than Shannon

So, really to even contemplate Shannon competing with Rotterdam for business is just ludicrous.

The big rail change in Europe that's coming in the next decade or so will be high speed freight from the European high-speed rail network to China, across Russia.

The fundamental investments needed in the West are :

1) Road network linking Cork - Galway at the very least with decent road onwards into Sligo and Donegal / Derry.
2) Broadband access infrastructure i.e. FTTC, FTTH and cable into towns, cities and villages and decent FWA (fixed wireless access) plugged straight into fibre at the masts.
3) Water & Sewage infrastructure - major investment's needed to ensure issues like Galway's contamination incidents never happen again and to protect lakes and waterways.
4) Public transport but mostly into bus networks as the population's so spread.
5) Natural gas infrastructure and power grid upgrades.

Rail's way down that list.

antoobrien

SpaceTime wrote: »

Rail's way down that list.

The thing about the rail though, it's was easy enough to do (the line was still there, it just needed refurbishment) and it was a sexy project for the hipsters. Add to that the criminal mismanagement of the timetable, making it useless to commuters, that should give you a clue about just why we need to be told to ask for grant money for the most under developed parts of the country.

SpaceTime

I would strongly suspect the reason for not accessing it is that it will be co-funding. The state doesn't have the money to pay for extra projects at the moment, even if it's only paying 20% of the cost.

ardmacha

The state doesn't have the money to pay for extra projects at the moment, even if it's only paying 20% of the cost.

This is nonsense. A large proportion of an expenditure comes back to the Exchequer in the form of VAT, income tax, PRSI etc. Not to go ahead with a project wiere you only have to pay 20% would be stupidity.

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

This is nonsense. A large proportion of an expenditure comes back to the Exchequer in the form of VAT, income tax, PRSI etc. Not to go ahead with a project wiere you only have to pay 20% would be stupidity.

We don't know the terms of the funding.

Who will pay the ongoing losses of moving air around the Galway Mayo and Sligo countryside?

rumour

ardmacha wrote: »

This is nonsense. A large proportion of an expenditure comes back to the Exchequer in the form of VAT, income tax, PRSI etc. Not to go ahead with a project wiere you only have to pay 20% would be stupidity.

Frankly you are omitting to consider our current predicament, that money you think is available is already spent and spent for years to come.

We've been borrowing €15-20bn more than we earn for the last 5 years. Did this not register at all?

antoobrien

Deleted User wrote: »

The EU are sending its regional development committee to Ireland to investigate why the government are unwilling to spend or apply for available infrastructural funds for the west and North west of Ireland(Not Limerick, Cork etc).

The government have answered and said we've applied for everything available to us:

Transport Minister Leo Varadkar, stated that the West had not benefited from available funding for major infrastructural projects simply because there had been no applications from the Government.

Almost a month and a half after the Tribune published this revelation, Junior Minister Ciaran Cannon has responded by saying that Minister Varadkar informed him that there were no unclaimed funds or under-claimed funds from Europe.

He has insisted that available funding for projects like the Western Rail Corridor had been tapped into and everything available under the European Regional Development Fund had been claimed.

But Europe said:

that the West of Ireland had not been included in any significant applications for funding from the European Regional Development Fund.

And it is the lack of applications from the West of Ireland that has prompted members of the committee to embark on their visit to Ireland later this year.

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1504-eu-committee-to-see-for-themselves-if-west-being-short-changed

Given that attitude from those in government departments in Dublin to the west (a place for their holiday homes), I know whom I'd believe.

murphaph

antoobrien wrote: »

Given that attitude from those in government departments in Dublin to the west (a place for their holiday homes), I know whom I'd believe.

What proportion of the government are from Dublin? The head honcho is from Mayo, so please don't spin this like it's a "Dublin runs the West down" thing. There's just no money for anything anywhere so long as we're running such a large deficit with our current expenses like welfare and the public sector pay bill consuming more than total tax take. If any shillings are found down the back of a sofa they should be spent where they'll deliver the most economic return, ie in the cities.

antoobrien

murphaph wrote: »

What proportion of the government are from Dublin? The head honcho is from Mayo, so please don't spin this like it's a "Dublin runs the West down" thing. There's just no money for anything anywhere so long as we're running such a large deficit with our current expenses like welfare and the public sector pay bill consuming more than total tax take.

Not reading what I wrote I see.

Let me repeat government DEPARTMENTS. Do you really think any ministers make deciions based on things that aren't vetted by the officials that refused to move out of Dublin?

Sure the current Taoiseach is from Mayo. The last one was from Dublin, the ones before that were based in Meath, Longford, Dublin & Dublin.

So to say that, because we have 1 leader in the last 30 years from our neck of the woods means we are not being run down is just plain wrong.

And now Europe are asking why we aren't/weren't asking for money for an area that is still regarded as disadvantaged by Europe and we're still in denial about it? More proof that things are a bit f**ked up in the pale.

murphaph wrote: »

If any shillings are found down the back of a sofa they should be spent where they'll deliver the most economic return, ie in the cities.

That was the plan that lead to the bust. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

It's time to try something different, ploughing money into areas that will strangle the rest of the country is not different, it's insane.

Max Powers

shouldnt the govt be tackling unemployment blackspot areas like the South east, south west and north west.

SpaceTime

antoobrien wrote: »

Sure the current Taoiseach is from Mayo. The last one was from Dublin, the ones before that were based in Meath, Longford, Dublin & Dublin.
.

As much as I would love to think that the 7 May 2008 – 9 March 2011 Government was a bad dream we all had, Brian Cowen was actually the last Taoiseach and is from Offaly, not Dublin.

antoobrien

SpaceTime wrote: »

As much as I would love to think that the 7 May 2008 – 9 March 2011 Government was a bad dream we all had, Brian Cowen was actually the last Taoiseach and is from Offaly, not Dublin.

Biffo screwed everyone over, but hell, add him to the list.

JillyQ

SpaceTime wrote: »

As much as I would love to think that the 7 May 2008 – 9 March 2011 Government was a bad dream we all had, Brian Cowen was actually the last Taoiseach and is from Offaly, not Dublin.

I think most of us would prefer to forget about Brian Cowen. It will be interesting to see how history records his time in office.

murphaph

antoobrien wrote: »

That was the plan that lead to the bust. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

Is that why Dublin has its metro North and dart underground already?

The reality across the whole world is that urban areas are prioritised for investment because that's where the people live. Except in Ireland.

antoobrien

murphaph wrote: »

Is that why Dublin has its metro Northern and dart underground already?

It's the only reason that the white elephant that is MN is even on the list.

murphaph wrote: »

The reality across the whole world is that urban areas are prioritised for investment because that's where the people live. Except in Ireland.

We have a historical residence pattern that is different from the rest of Europe, so we need to look at things in a different way. So why should we do something that won't be effective?

Instead we try to shoehorn in ideas that won't work because of ideologies that are not based in the reality.

The reality is that the west is being underfunded. We know this in the west and we will not be told to shut up by hypocrites that want top take money for their own pet projects.

murphaph

antoobrien wrote: »

The reality is that the west is being underfunded. We know this in the west and we will not be told to shut up by hypocrites that want top take money for their own pet projects.

Then secede and show us all how it's done (with your own money).

murphaph

antoobrien wrote: »

It's the only reason that the white elephant that is MN is even on the list.

A white elephant that would run from Swords (bigger than every urban area in the West bar Galway and it's not far behind Galway in population terms I might add) to the capital city, bypassing choked streets and passing under the island's largest airport, the only IKEA in the RoI, one of the largest hospitals, the largest sports stadium and several large institutes of higher education as well as plenty of housing along the route including the redeveloped Ballymun.

Did you think Luas would be a white elephant as well? :rolleyes:

Rightwing

murphaph wrote: »

Is that why Dublin has its metro North and dart underground already?

The reality across the whole world is that urban areas are prioritised for investment because that's where the people live. Except in Ireland.

Facts would suggest otherwise.

We can't get a motorway between Limerick and Cork.

opiniated

Max Powers wrote: »

shouldnt the govt be tackling unemployment blackspot areas like the South east, south west and north west.

They should! But since they seem to be determined to follow the pattern set by past Governments, I think it's a fairly safe prediction to say that they wont!

The thinking in Government Depts. appears to be limited to "What do they do in Europe? Ah, sure, that'll do for Ireland, too. If Europe does it, it must be the best thing to do!"

The problem with that line of thinking is that planning needs to happen after an evaluation of the current situation - and the situation in Ireland is not the same as any/every other European Country.
Hence, the five Ps, as they used to be known, (Poor Planning leads to P*ss Poor Performance) come into play as often as not!

Certainly, the West/Northwest of Ireland has been underdeveloped for decades - and that can't possibly be entirely due to coincidence!

antoobrien

murphaph wrote: »

A white elephant that would run from Swords (bigger than every urban area in the West bar Galway and it's not far behind Galway in population terms I might add) to the capital city, bypassing choked streets and passing under the island's largest airport, the only IKEA in the RoI, one of the largest hospitals, the largest sports stadium and several large institutes of higher education as well as plenty of housing along the route including the redeveloped Ballymun.

Pretty much the only reason it's even proposed there in bold.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Rightwing wrote: »

Facts would suggest otherwise.

We can't get a motorway between Limerick and Cork.

But does this not support his contention? Regional cities have been losers precisely because, virtually since the foundation of the State, policy has dictated that predominantly rural areas be given priority. Consider how neither Galway nor Limerick has any scheduled air services. They're meant to be satisfied with Knock and Shannon, respectively. Similarly, Cork Airport loses out because its development could only be at the expense of Shannon.

opiniated wrote: »

Certainly, the West/Northwest of Ireland has been underdeveloped for decades - and that can't possibly be entirely due to coincidence!

But it is despite huge efforts to promote those areas. There hasn't been any 'neglect' of any region. To quote one systematic study

http://www.esri.ie/__uuid/aada7786-353e-4b67-bc03-298079c403ce/RB20090103.pdf

In real terms the level of investment has increased substantially in all regions. While the Dublin region received a large share of total investment, it also accounts for a large share of the total population. In per capita terms, therefore, Dublin is not favoured when it comes to capital expenditure. Indeed no clear pattern of ‘excess’ per capita capital expenditure can be detected in the data.