Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

Ravelleman

Seaneh wrote: »

Spoons local to me (Black Bull in Bangor) is clean, well laid out, the staff are excellent, the range of beers is good, the clientèle is far from "bad" AND they show football.

The one in Belfast was hardly rowdy but it doesn't make any gestures towards atmosphere, nor do any Spoons, it seems.

To me it felt like a large drinking room and very little else, though that could have been down to the structure of the building.

And of course there are many other places around Belfast and around Dublin that are just like that too. The atmosphere there definitely changes at night. During the day I found it a lot more inviting. Again, though, that's the nature of a lot of pubs.

Anyway, if you or I go then quality of the clientele will increase immeasurably. :cool:

JohnK

Has there been any firm talk of dates yet for when they'll open? I know July was mentioned a few months back for Dublin but I don't think I've heard anything about Cork.

MonkstownHoop

JohnK wrote: »

Has there been any firm talk of dates yet for when they'll open? I know July was mentioned a few months back for Dublin but I don't think I've heard anything about Cork.

July 7th

Chelon

oblivious wrote: »

spoons do generally have a good name with cask beer.

Absolutely agree so high hopes.

Chelon

Seaneh wrote: »

The majority of the Irish casked beers I've had in Mulligans, Kavanaghs, GBB pubs, porterhouse, sweetmans, etc have been very good and some of them have been phenomenal.

Are you talking hand pulled ales? I've seen very few Irish ones - even at the RDS festival I thought they were poor, probably due to the hot weather.

BeerNut

Chelon wrote: »

even at the RDS festival I thought they were poor, probably due to the hot weather.

The lack of stillage didn't help either, I'd say. The standard of cask is better in the dozen or so Dublin pubs that have cask beer.

Incidentally:

JD Wetherspoon wrote:

The opening of The Three Tun Tavern will introduce Cask Marque to Ireland - the independent quality accreditation scheme helping millions of drinkers in the UK choose a reliable pint.

The team of Cask Marque inspectors, former brewers, sets the standards for cellar management, staff knowledge and skills and the beer in the glass, which is tested for apprearance, aroma, temperature and taste.

Seaneh

Chelon wrote: »

Are you talking hand pulled ales? I've seen very few Irish ones - even at the RDS festival I thought they were poor, probably due to the hot weather.

All of the Galway Bay Brewery bars in Dublin have cask engines and the majority of the beers they offer at any one time would be Irish from breweries like Trouble, Fran Well, White Gypsy, Galway Bay and a few others and they are usually fantastic. Galway Bay themselves have offered Of Foam and Fury and Full Sail in the last while and both were amazing. Trouble's Rye Red Ale, Graffiti and Dark Arts have been on cask in Brew Dock and all 3 were exceptional. Porterhouse have always had their own beers which are fantastic on cask or keg.

ted1

trihead wrote: »

I read somewhere that they ran a competition where locals from the area put forward names for the new pub.

They gave them a selection of 4 names, people then voted

Chelon

Seaneh wrote: »

All of the Galway Bay Brewery bars in Dublin have cask engines and the majority of the beers they offer at any one time would be Irish from breweries like Trouble, Fran Well, White Gypsy, Galway Bay and a few others and they are usually fantastic. Galway Bay themselves have offered Of Foam and Fury and Full Sail in the last while and both were amazing. Trouble's Rye Red Ale, Graffiti and Dark Arts have been on cask in Brew Dock and all 3 were exceptional. Porterhouse have always had their own beers which are fantastic on cask or keg.

I'd really love to agree with you here - I've only been to the Black Sheep and Against the Grain - have you visited all their Dublin pubs personally and found their cask to be excellent, or are you only talking Galway?

I did have a really nice pint of Metalman Windjammer in the Black Sheep but that is the only time. Once in Against the Grain I had an absolutely foul pint of Irish cask ale(can't remember the brewery)- I should have sent it back.

I will *always* ask for a trial glass of any Irish cask ale that I see in any pub. Very few I find are worth drinking.

All of the above is in comparison to JDW where you could almost select any pint at random from the many available and it will invariably be excellent.

Seaneh

Chelon wrote: »

All of the above is in comparison to JDW where you could almost select any pint at random from the many available and it will invariably be excellent.

From reading this I've come to the conclusion that you just like bland English ales.

Spoons sometimes have decent cask ales but it's most of the taps are occupied by the likes of Ghost Ship, Ruddles County, Doombar, Old Speckled Hen or whatever other bland English pale ale is local to the specific pub and the odd cask of their contract brews from american brewers like Sixpoints etc.

Chelon

Seaneh wrote: »

From reading this I've come to the conclusion that you just like bland English ales.

Spoons sometimes have decent cask ales but it's most of the taps are occupied by the likes of Ghost Ship, Ruddles County, Doombar, Old Speckled Hen or whatever other bland English pale ale is local to the specific pub and the odd cask of their contract brews from american brewers like Sixpoints etc.

I like my ale to be fresh, full of flavour, well brewed and well kept. If that makes it bland in some peoples' books then so be it.

I'd hazard a guess that most of the posters on this thread would agree with me that JDW supply excellent cask ales...if you think the likes of Abbott, which is one of their staples, is not a top quality ale then I'd say you've got some convincing to do

hynesie08

Chelon wrote: »

I like my ale to be fresh, full of flavour, well brewed and well kept. If that makes it bland in some peoples' books then so be it.

I'd hazard a guess that most of the posters on this thread would agree with me that JDW supply excellent cask ales...if you think the likes of Abbott, which is one of their staples, is not a top quality ale then I'd say you've got some convincing to do

I completely agree that 'spoons have some crackers, but if you really don't rate any of the Irish cask offerings I'd assume your tastebuds were broken.

Seaneh

Chelon wrote: »

I like my ale to be fresh, full of flavour, well brewed and well kept. If that makes it bland in some peoples' books then so be it.

I'd hazard a guess that most of the posters on this thread would agree with me that JDW supply excellent cask ales...if you think the likes of Abbott, which is one of their staples, is not a top quality ale then I'd say you've got some convincing to do

Abbot ale is the definition of by the numbers brewing. It's as bland as bitter gets.

Green King are the most uninspired brewers on the planet.

Faith

Seaneh wrote: »

Spoons local to me (Black Bull in Bangor) is clean, well laid out, the staff are excellent, the range of beers is good, the clientèle is far from "bad" AND they show football. They are showing every world cup match AND they are having a meet the brewer session with Purple Moose Brewery (local brewers in North Wales) before the opening ceremony tonight so I'll be there for that anyway. Probably watch the match somewhere else though.

You have my sympathies for living in Bangor. I spent 9 months there myself *shudder*.

Seaneh

Faith wrote: »

You have my sympathies for living in Bangor. I spent 9 months there myself *shudder*.

Which Bangor?
I'm in North Wales not Down, I'm actually living in Anglesey, Bangor is just the closest big town. I only go there once or twice a week for shopping/meeting people/stocking up on Sixpoint Brewery beers in 'spoons.

Chelon

hynesie08 wrote: »

I completely agree that 'spoons have some crackers, but if you really don't rate any of the Irish cask offerings I'd assume your tastebuds were broken.

It's the lack of supply that may be the problem; I did find the excellent Windjammer, but where is it now? Nowhere to be seen.

Can anyone suggest a good Irish cask beer that is regularly available in Dublin?

neamhspleachi

Ah Anglesey, fond memories of drinking fine ales at bike rallies there many moons ago

BeerNut

Chelon wrote: »

Can anyone suggest a good Irish cask beer that is regularly available in Dublin?

For an Abbot's fan? Try Porterhouse TSB. Whatever Dungarvan beer is currently on at The Palace or The Cobblestone would likely be up your street too. I'm not exactly sure what the arrangement at O'Neill's of Suffolk Street is, but the White Gypsy American Brown they had a couple of weeks ago was great. If that's a dedicated White Gypsy engine you won't go far wrong there either.

irish_goat

BeerNut wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what the arrangement at O'Neill's of Suffolk Street is, but the White Gypsy American Brown they had a couple of weeks ago was great. If that's a dedicated White Gypsy engine you won't go far wrong there either.

It's White Gyspy Brunette red ale on now so it might just be a dedicated engine.

Chelon

BeerNut wrote: »

For an Abbot's fan? Try Porterhouse TSB. Whatever Dungarvan beer is currently on at The Palace or The Cobblestone would likely be up your street too. I'm not exactly sure what the arrangement at O'Neill's of Suffolk Street is, but the White Gypsy American Brown they had a couple of weeks ago was great. If that's a dedicated White Gypsy engine you won't go far wrong there either.

Cheers, that's helpful - didn't know the Palace/Cobblestone/O'Neills even did cask.

I feel part of the problem in Dublin is that hardly anyone drinks the stuff, so turnover may be quite low.

When I order a pint of cask and look around, most other drinkers are on the usual suspects, except in the Black Sheep which seems to attract a more ale loving crowd.

BaZmO*

Chelon wrote: »

Cheers, that's helpful - didn't know the Palace/Cobblestone/O'Neills even did cask.

I feel part of the problem in Dublin is that hardly anyone drinks the stuff, so turnover may be quite low.

When I order a pint of cask and look around, most other drinkers are on the usual suspects, except in the Black Sheep which seems to attract a more ale loving crowd.

It's very niche and as a result any of the places that do it tend to sell out quickly of any casks that are put on.

BeerNut

Chelon wrote: »

didn't know the Palace/Cobblestone/O'Neills even did cask.

I feel part of the problem in Dublin is that hardly anyone drinks the stuff

I trust you can see the cause and effect in operation here.

oblivious

BaZmO* wrote: »

It's very niche and as a result any of the places that do it tend to sell out quickly of any casks that are put on.

Once a cask is tap best it sell fast, other can always be sought

BaZmO*

oblivious wrote: »

Once a cask is tap best it sell fast, other can always be sought

Nope, I've read that 5 times and I haven't a clue what you're saying.

oblivious

BaZmO* wrote: »

Nope, I've read that 5 times and I haven't a clue what you're saying.

Sorry, its best for cask ale to sell fast,

BeerNut

€4 pints of cask Abbot Ale at The Brew Dock right now. Chelon: they're playing your song.

Chelon

BeerNut wrote: »

€4 pints of cask Abbot Ale at The Brew Dock right now. Chelon: they're playing your song.

Nice one - can't wait to sample some more of that bland dross masquerading as beer that just about every ale nut that I know seems to like

the beer revolu

Chelon wrote: »

Nice one - can't wait to sample some more of that bland dross masquerading as beer that just about every ale nut that I know seems to like

Is every ale nut you know English?

Chelon

the beer revolu wrote: »

Is every ale nut you know English?

Bit of a strange question but I'll answer it.

No.

drumswan

Every cask ale nut I ever met was English. I dont really get the whole cask thing, hopefully Weatherspoons can provide some illumination.

BaZmO*

drumswan wrote: »

Every cask ale nut I ever met was English. I dont really get the whole cask thing, hopefully Weatherspoons can provide some illumination.

I'm not that gone on it myself.

Lucena

There are some cracking cask ales, Abbot isn't really one of them, unfortunately.

coylemj

JohnK wrote: »

Has there been any firm talk of dates yet for when they'll open? I know July was mentioned a few months back for Dublin but I don't think I've heard anything about Cork.

Three Tuns (Blackrock) opening July 8th as of today.

JohnK

coylemj wrote: »

Three Tuns (Blackrock) opening July 8th as of today.

Good stuff, hopefully Cork won't be far behind it.

Faith

Seaneh wrote: »

Which Bangor?
I'm in North Wales not Down, I'm actually living in Anglesey, Bangor is just the closest big town. I only go there once or twice a week for shopping/meeting people/stocking up on Sixpoint Brewery beers in 'spoons.

Yeah, North Wales. We lived in Menai Bridge but went to college in Bangor, so spent more time in there (and in 'spoons, which I can't agree with your assessment of!) than I'd prefer.

Chelon

Abbot isn't one of my all time favourites, but the reason I go for it is simply that I don't think I've ever had a bad pint of it....if I'm in a pub which offers samples then I normally try a few then decide but otherwise Abbot can be a fair choice.

I do find it's usually quite good though, different tastes for different folks.

To those cask ale doubters out there - it's a product that is hugely affected by how it's kept. The analogy would be a delicious loaf fresh out of the oven which would go bad if uneaten within a couple of days compared to a factory baked sliced pan which could keep for a week or more. Give the JDW ones a try, when they arrive here.

Seaneh

Faith wrote: »

Yeah, North Wales. We lived in Menai Bridge but went to college in Bangor, so spent more time in there (and in 'spoons, which I can't agree with your assessment of!) than I'd prefer.

I've been spending more time talking crap to Addie in The Aukland than in 'Spoons.
Bangor is just where I go to buy stuff I can't get in waitrose/the butchers/the fruit and veg shop or meet people for a beer now and then. The Bull (spoons) has the best selection of beer of any bar in a 100mile radius from what I've seen, it's cleaner than most and I've never seen a "rough" crowd in there.

I'd rather be in 'spoons than in The Albion/Varsity/Anywhere on lower high street.

BeerNut

Beamish and Murphy's at €3.95; no Guinness, according to The Irish Times.

rubadub

BeerNut wrote: »

Beamish and Murphy's at €3.95; no Guinness,

that's fine by me, I don't think it will bother many, in fact I reckon its a good excuse for people to try beamish, which still has this stupid cheapskate stigma attached to it. So in a pub with guinness & beamish some might fear even trying beamish for looking like a cheapskate, but it there is no guinness there is less of an issue. I have seen guinness drinkers change to other stouts in concert venues with no guinness.

I thought it would have been more like 3.50 though.

It’s a brave move by the British chain given that Guinness accounts for one in every three pints of beer sold in Ireland and is hugely popular with tourists.

Its hugely "popular" since many pubs only have 1 stout on draught. I drink a fair amount of guinness, its not my preferred stout though, its all that's on offer.

Losty Dublin

rubadub wrote: »

that's fine by me, I don't think it will bother many, in fact I reckon its a good excuse for people to try beamish, which still has this stupid cheapskate stigma attached to it. So in a pub with guinness & beamish some might fear even trying beamish for looking like a cheapskate, but it there is no guinness there is less of an issue. I have seen guinness drinkers change to other stouts in concert venues with no guinness.

I thought it would have been more like 3.50 though.

Its hugely "popular" since many pubs only have 1 stout on draught. I drink a fair amount of guinness, its not my preferred stout though, its all that's on offer.

Suits me as well; I stopped drinking Guinness 2 years ago and of the 3 brand name Nitro stouts Beamish is the one I'd go for. By the looks of it it's more than they couldn't bully agree a sweet price with Diageo as none of their lines will be stocked.

From the IT piece....

Among the other beers that will be stocked are Tom Crean’s Irish Lager from Dingle Brewery, Franciscan Well Rebel Red, and craft beers from Eight Degrees Brewing, including Howling Gale, Knockmealdown Porter and Barefoot Bohemian Pilsner.

Will the average drinker look on it as a craft beer pub of sorts?

BeerNut

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Will the average drinker look on it as a craft beer pub of sorts?

With up to 12 cask ales and a bunch of UK faux-craft keg beers? I'd say so.

coylemj

Not stocking Diageo (Guinness) products is indeed a brave move and one that presents a bit of a moral dilemma for other publicans. While they're probably worried about the effect JDW will have on local pricing, they will be more than happy to see a heavyweight UK chain taking on a Goliath like Diageo.

The success of Heineken in the Irish market is mainly down to the fact that it is not a Guinness product, this more than any sponsorship or advertising was the key to it's success since the last thing the Irish pub trade wanted was yet another sector of the draught beer trade dominated by St. James Gate.

Diageo refusing to bend to the demands of JDW could open the door to Murphys getting a real foothold in the capital, something I suspect the trade would embrace with open arms.

JohnK

I might have taken it up incorrectly but I had thought one of the things they'd be doing is bringing all their drink in via their existing distribution chain in UK/NI so they wouldn't have to deal with any local politics around pricing?

BeerNut

coylemj wrote: »

Diageo refusing to bend to the demands of JDW could open the door to Murphys getting a real foothold in the capital

I doubt that. JDW will just be the Lidl and Aldi of pubs: you don't get quite the same products as in Dunnes and Tesco, but it's cheap. Once you're outside Wetherspoon, normal brand loyalties will apply.

coylemj

BeerNut wrote: »

I doubt that. JDW will just be the Lidl and Aldi of pubs: you don't get quite the same products as in Dunnes and Tesco, but it's cheap. Once you're outside Wetherspoon, normal brand loyalties will apply.

That doesn't really tally with opening their first pub in the ROI in a prime location like Main St. Blackrock??? There are plenty of locations they could have picked up for a fraction of the price they paid for Tonic - the Cumberland in Dun Laoghaire which has been boarded up for ages would be an example.

BeerNut

What's that got to do with customer brand loyalty?

coylemj

BeerNut wrote: »

What's that got to do with customer brand loyalty?

I was addressing these points, not the one about brand loyalty.

BeerNut wrote: »

I doubt that. JDW will just be the Lidl and Aldi of pubs: you don't get quite the same products as in Dunnes and Tesco, but it's cheap.

rubadub

coylemj wrote: »

That doesn't really tally with opening their first pub in the ROI in a prime location like Main St. Blackrock???

I think it was smart to pick blackrock as you don't get much trouble there, just as I never hear of much trouble in dalkey. So they might have been wary of starting out and having a reputation for all day session stag party style drinking.

I still imagine that many people who call themselves"guinness drinkers" have only tried 1 or 2 other stouts in their life, and maybe only a single pint at that.

The guinness in UK wetherspoons always seems to be 4.1% for some reason, its 4.2% here.

BeerNut

coylemj wrote: »

I was addressing these points, not the one about brand loyalty.

That is a point about brand loyalty Lidl and Aldi sell unique and cheaper versions of the branded products you get in Tesco and Dunnes. Wetherspoon will also sell unfamiliar products at a lower price, and I doubt it will have much influence on places selling the mainstream beers.

Geuze

A spokesman for Wetherspoon said the price point sought by Diageo for the famous stout was “too high”.
“We like to sell our drink to customers at a certain price and the price that Diageo wanted us to sell the product at was too high,” a spokesman for Wetherspoon told The Irish Times today.


I'm interested in retail prices, and how they are determined.

Surely Diageo RoI simply set, or offer, a wholesale price to JDW, with associated volume rebates.

How would Diageo be involved in setting or influencing the final retail price?

JDW are free to sell Guinness at any price they like, surely?