Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

BeerNut

How far down had you got when you took the picture?

irish_goat

BeerNut wrote: »

How far down had you got when you took the picture?

All fixed now.

Going to try a Lagunitas next, I figure is it'll be best to drink it fresh as I can't imagine Derry folk will be causing then to reorder stock very soon.

rubadub

coylemj wrote: »

Massive price reductions are normally what you do when you open a new pub, not several months later. Clearly this is about getting more bums on seats and stools and the numbers through the door so far haven't met expectations.

I can't recall many pubs opening with massive reductions, I'm sure you could dig up instances with massive reductions/promos for the first day or two, but I just don't recall any myself.

I made the point several times that I reckon it was not particularly cheap as they are 100% aware of the reputation they had. Crowds were probably going down in the first few weeks to check it out. If they had €2.50 pints it might have been mobbed, but I also expect their would be a backlash from the public about promoting binge drinking. The first few weeks were when lots of media reviews happened, I doubt they wanted negative stories of pissheads.

delahuntv wrote: »

Even a quick glance would suggest that these prices are not possible long term combined with decent service.

Why not? do you have info on how much wetherspoons pay?

I saw a post on another site where some ex-publican seems to think he knows.

Don Juan
21 hours ago # 87 151
At €200 odd a keg of Heineken, that makes a very small margin that cannot be profitable.
Heinken/Murphy’s have been known to cut deals with big pubs. If they did the same with the small publican, perhaps prices would be more competitive.
As an ex publican, I know that profit cannot be made at that margin, no matter how the cynical punter looks at it. Costs are too high.

However probably from the same group of publican gob****es who are paying ~€35 for a crate of heineken bottles and then crying about below cost selling since centra sell 20 for €15. Centra, a convenience store who would be out of their mind to attempt the loss leader model on alcohol -I didn't see people buying a mars bar let alone a weekly shop. That €35 firgure also might not have included vat.

In saying that I do not think it will last, just making the point we have no idea what they pay. It could even be opposed by other publicans in the area who could say its promoting binge drinking, I am not sure the in's & outs of the law but some pubs & clubs were stopped, but it might have been mutli promos, like get 3 shots or something. Its going to get them free media attention and some interesting market info seeing how much increase in sales they get.

Big Nasty

+1

Publicans need to stop paying the prices Diageo and others are demanding when it's clear they sell their products WAY cheaper to the multiples.

The Irish publican seems to think they'd have to close their doors altogether if they were to stop stocking Diageo products. Wetherspooons have proven that's not the case.

However unlike the Irish publican 'Spoons as a group have huge buying power hence their prices.

symbolic

Big Nasty wrote: »

However unlike the Irish publican 'Spoons as a group have huge buying power hence their prices.

How are they buying so much 8 degrees or say Trouble Brewing ale? Surely buying power doesn't come into this? Is it a "loss leader" or whatever that thing I learnt in business is.

Have never worked in a bar. Have no idea how it works. I am very shocked by the prices. Compared to what I pay for Irish ales in other bars. And even how much I pay for Irish ales made by the bar that are selling them. Are they just having a laugh with us in some of the bars?

I kind of want to know if its OK that I go and support this business Haha.

Big Nasty

Spoons and the multiples (supermarkets) would kinda operate in a similar way as far as their stock is concerned. They'll dictate to suppliers how much they are willing to pay for for their products and if the supplier doesn't agree they don't carry their stock. Hence why there are no Diageo products in TTT.

8 Degrees or Trouble would have very little mark-up on what 'Spoons are paying them but if they get listed in every pub (UK & IRL) that little would be worth a lot!

BeerNut

Big Nasty wrote: »

if they get listed in every pub (UK & IRL) that little would be worth a lot!

They won't be though. They're part of the local colour the company puts into every branch, at the discretion of local management. It's not big volume.

symbolic

BeerNut wrote: »

They won't be though. They're part of the local colour the company puts into every branch, at the discretion of local management. It's not big volume.

ahhh.. that makes sense I suppose. I get the feeling you are against the whole thing?

Geuze

Yes, I have a similar query.

I understand that a large brewer like Heineken might give volume discounts to JD WS, allowing them to sell Beamish and Murphy's cheaper.

But a small brewery like 8 degrees, how do they manage it?

Their bottles were priced at 3.50, now 2.45 - who is taking the hit here?

POST HALTED AS CAN'T FIND LINK TO NEW MENU..............

Old menu or new menu: http://www.jdwetherspoon.ie/pdf/irish_menu.pdf



Rebel Red was 4.75, now gone from menu, Tom Crean's lager was both 4.75, now 2.95.

The guest ales price was from 4.25, now from 2.50.

BeerNut

symbolic wrote: »

I get the feeling you are against the whole thing?

No, not at all. I'm not in the drinks business and I don't live near Blackrock so it doesn't have any direct effect on me. But choice and competition are things there hasn't been near enough of in Ireland generally, beerwise -- it's great to see more of both.

symbolic

BeerNut wrote: »

No, not at all. I'm not in the drinks business and I don't live near Blackrock so it doesn't have any direct effect on me. But choice and competition are things there hasn't been near enough of in Ireland generally, beerwise -- it's great to see more of both.

Ah sorry I just got the wrong impression from your last couple of posts.

I'm all for competition, just very shocked by the prices. Suppose a "too good to be true" thing in my head, so was just curious as to how the prices are so cheap compared to other bars.

Be nice to hear a bar owner's view on here. Or any links to a write up from one online?

Peter Anthony

The sooner they get all across the country the better. The idea of me going to the pub for a session with 20 quid seemed alien until I went to England. And food as well, its brilliant.

They're not perfect but my word the pub scene here has needed this kick up the arse for many years. Pubs are closing quick in rural towns for a number of reasons particularly emigration, unemployment, pricing and the fact their rubbish. And while I'm not expecting villages to be on their agenda, theres plenty of pubs out there that just need to be put out of their misery.

Theres been 1-2 pubs closing in my local town every year for the past several. Down from 25 or so a few years ago. The majority now barely open their doors during the week. I would far rather quality over quantity, and who really wants to sit in an empty pub.

drumswan

How easy is it to pick up a licence from one of these closed pubs anyway?

thesandeman

Very easy if you have 70K hanging around.

n97 mini

Peter Anthony wrote: »

emigration, unemployment, pricing and the fact their rubbish.

Reducing prices only fixes one of those!

drumswan

thesandeman wrote: »

Very easy if you have 70K hanging around.

Ah. So does the 70k go to the government or is that just the going rate?

n97 mini

It goes to the current owner. It's like taxi licencing was before deregulation, you could only buy an existing licence as no new ones were being issued. Supply and demand affects their value, in the boom a pub licence could get 250k, now you could pick one up for 40k. In some cases you can pick up a pub and a licence for cheap. A few years ago a pub in Waterford city sold for 65k, licence and all.

There is a small amount of legal stuff which will be another couple of k.

thesandeman

Going rate. Government will get the VAT part etc. Previous owner gets the rest.

BaZmO*

Is the licence transferable to a different premises?

oblivious

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is the licence transferable to a different premises?

I though that was stopped to prevent the rise of Dublin super pubs?

Big Nasty

Years back you had to extinquish three licences to acquire a new one. Doubt that's still in place now.

Geuze

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is the licence transferable to a different premises?

Yes.

Fixed amount of licences since 1908 approx.

Every time a Lidl / Aldi / supermarket opens with an off-licence, that means a pub licence has been extinguished and transferred.


It used to be the case that they could only be transferred within the same civil parish.

Also used to be the issue of extinguish >1 licence, to transfer to a new place, see above.

BaZmO*

oblivious wrote: »

I though that was stopped to prevent the rise of Dublin super pubs?

Wasn't aware if it was ever allowed tbh. I was just wondering because it always seems that once a pub closes it invariably opens up again but just under a different name. The TTT being a case in point.
I'm not sure if that's due to the licence not being transferable or if it's due to change of use of premises (if relocated), therefore Fire Cert related, or a combination of both.

Chelon

Admittedly I mostly have experience of Dublin but haven't seen much of this "pubs closing" phenomenon or indeed pubs opening in new premises. The vast majority appear to have been on the same site for years and have no intention of closing or relocating.

Is it therefore more of a country town issue?

cruhoortwunk

What about happy hours. Were they banned here at some point?
I look around the place at pubs and they are devoid of any ideas or anything to set them apart from the rest. Instead of going out of business with the same prices, staff etc, why do none of them try something imaginative. Like the odd happy hour or daily promos.

irish_goat

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

What about happy hours. Were they banned here at some point?

Still banned.

There are ways of getting around the ban e.g. a pub could sell a certain brand cheaply between 5pm and 6pm and then after 6 "mysteriously" run out.

Lucena

irish_goat wrote: »

Still banned.

There are ways of getting around the ban e.g. a pub could sell a certain brand cheaply between 5pm and 6pm and then after 6 "mysteriously" run out.

How would that work?

It's not like the pub can advertise that, which defeats the point of getting punters in the door.

irish_goat

Lucena wrote: »

How would that work?

It's not like the pub can advertise that, which defeats the point of getting punters in the door.

Not sure about the advertising of it but it wouldn't take long for regulars to hear about it.

They could in theory put a poster up at 5pm advertising cheap pints of Beer X and then just take it down after 6.

RasTa

I don't remember there ever being a happy hour? Isn't that place on Hartcourt street still doing cheap drinks all night Wednesday or Thursday? Dicey's I think...

Geuze

Chelon wrote: »

Admittedly I mostly have experience of Dublin but haven't seen much of this "pubs closing" phenomenon or indeed pubs opening in new premises. The vast majority appear to have been on the same site for years and have no intention of closing or relocating.

Is it therefore more of a country town issue?

Yes.

My town, c. 4000 people, used to have about 20 pubs.

Three pubs closed maybe 10-20 years ago.

More recently, two more closed during the last year.

Squeeonline

Geuze wrote: »

Yes.

My town, c. 4000 people, used to have about 20 pubs.

Three pubs closed maybe 10-20 years ago.

More recently, two more closed during the last year.

Is that not just the excess dying off? 200 people per pub probably isn't enough to keep them open, even in a small town.

thesandeman

irish_goat wrote: »

Not sure about the advertising of it but it wouldn't take long for regulars to hear about it.

They could in theory put a poster up at 5pm advertising cheap pints of Beer X and then just take it down after 6.

Can't do that either (unless you don't open till 5). Price has to stay the same from opening to closing time.

n97 mini

Tougher drink driving laws killed off a lot of rural pubs, although I have never seen any real enforcement.

Small towns with no employment for younger people had unsustainable employment during the construction boom. Young lads that would have emigrated to London or where ever were able to get local employment building houses and apartments that ultimately no-one wanted. This kept a lot of pubs going.

Licences are transferable from premises to premises (although there is a restriction that applies to off licences only). Carroll's in Lucan was a butcher shop till last year.

n97 mini

thesandeman wrote: »

Can't do that either (unless you don't open till 5). Price has to stay the same from opening to closing time.

IG is saying you can "run out" of beer X at 6, as if by co-incidence

BenEadir

thesandeman wrote: »

Price has to stay the same from opening to closing time.

A pub I frequent (infrequently) increase their prices after midnight as they have a late licence. A pint you pay €5:50 for at 11:25 will be €6 at 12:10. (Not real, just illustrative pricing)

Does that mean they are breaking the law?

Personally I prefer the idea of paying an extra 50c per pint for late pints than paying €10 in and maybe having only 2-3 more pints.

J Mysterio

Squeeonline wrote: »

Is that not just the excess dying off? 200 people per pub probably isn't enough to keep them open, even in a small town.

My hometown has a population of about 1500. There were 9 pubs until last few years... 5 now.

SteeveeDee

Chelon wrote: »

Admittedly I mostly have experience of Dublin but haven't seen much of this "pubs closing" phenomenon or indeed pubs opening in new premises. The vast majority appear to have been on the same site for years and have no intention of closing or relocating.

Is it therefore more of a country town issue?

Dublin has always had pubs opening and closing and opening again under new leaseholders. I just put it down to the cost of running a business in the city, bad business planning and huge capital investment.

However outside the major cities and quite possibly in some of those cities it is a very real thing. In the past 5 or so years I have especially noticed it in small to large towns and a lot of these pubs wouldn't really have huge overheads. There will always be someone to try their hand at reopening but either through mismanagement or stale ideas fail to gain any sort of footing and nearly always seem to back track out of it again and the cycle continues.
I'm not sure why exactly this happens but I am sure status quo pricing from suppliers and price expectations put on the customers has a lo to do with it as does business rates, drink driving laws and tax takes. Maybe some new ideas are needed,good beer would be one of those ideas!

thesandeman

n97 mini wrote: »

IG is saying you can "run out" of beer X at 6, as if by co-incidence

I know. But it means you have to "get a delivery" at exactly 5 also.

irish_goat

thesandeman wrote: »

I know. But it means you have to "get a delivery" at exactly 5 also.

It doesn't, nothing in the law to say you can't start selling a certain product at whatever time you want.

coylemj

thesandeman wrote: »

Can't do that either (unless you don't open till 5). Price has to stay the same from opening to closing time.

I'm pretty sure that that is not observed in Temple Bar. Is the rule not that you can't reduce the price during a certain period of the day - a measure to eliminate the 'happy hour'?

rubadub

BaZmO* wrote: »

I was just wondering because it always seems that once a pub closes it invariably opens up again but just under a different name.

I think Weirs in dun laoghaire may have been sold without a licence, not sure of the details but think it might have been transferred elsewhere and then weirs sold on just as a premises. Not sure if reopened as a pub after that with someone getting another licence.

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

Like the odd happy hour or daily promos.

Fibbers openly advertised reduced price guinness for a certain period recently, for the now finished arthurs day. So I am not sure if they crack down a lot.

Lucena wrote: »

How would that work?

It's not like the pub can advertise that, which defeats the point of getting punters in the door.

I was suggesting this loophole before. They could advertise €2 smirnoff and just simply claim not to have it in stock until whenever they want to sell it, and then run out whenever they want.

irish_goat wrote: »

It doesn't, nothing in the law to say you can't start selling a certain product at whatever time you want.

I was not sure about that, so was suggesting saying its just not in yet, rather than advertisting that it will only be sold from a certain time onwards. They have to have a extensive price list of everything they well available in the bar, I don't think I have ever seen one, perhaps the likes of against the grain is a full menu but I suspect their might be some oddball spirit behind the counter which is not on it. I presume this list should show the new prices if late bars put them up.

RasTa wrote: »

Isn't that place on Hartcourt street still doing cheap drinks all night Wednesday or Thursday? Dicey's I think...

Yes, they have €2 pints of paulaner, I was asking some publican posters here about that who were moaning about below cost selling, and saying no pubs do it etc, none replyed as I expected.

BeerNut

BenEadir wrote: »

A pub I frequent (infrequently) increase their prices after midnight ...
Does that mean they are breaking the law?

No. As others have said, the ban is solely on price reduction. Here's the law.

The comical law on pub pricelists is here.

54kroc

BeerNut wrote: »

No. As others have said, the ban is solely on price reduction. Here's the law.

The comical law on pub pricelists is here.

Why is the law comical? Not taking the piss I'm just curious.

rubadub

54kroc wrote: »

Why is the law comical? Not taking the piss I'm just curious.

NOt sure about BeerNut's reasons, but I saw very little difference from what was there before this law. The 16 list at the door requires just 1 lager and 1 stout, this could be some obscure lager which there is no demand for. These lists are fairly hidden in most places. And I have never noticed a readily available/visible extensive list in any "regular pub" I have been in. The craft beer pubs often will have good menus, most of them also have nothing to hide price wise.

I still think the pubs are taking advantage of the weird tradition that most people follow of never enquiring about prices before buying.

not sure if this list was posted about, on facebook the owners confirmed all these are €2.45, all bottles


the goose island is 2.79 in McHughs and 2.80 in drinkstore. I think pubs have to remove the caps incase people were going to treat it like an offie, dunno the law on off sales.

Geuze

rubadub wrote: »

not sure if this list was posted about, on facebook the owners confirmed all these are €2.45, all bottles


the goose island is 2.79 in McHughs and 2.80 in drinkstore. I think pubs have to remove the caps incase people were going to treat it like an offie, dunno the law on off sales.

AFAIK, pubs are free to sell beer for consumption off the premises.

A pub licence is both an on-licence and off-licence.

Pubs often sell cans to take-away.

coylemj

rubadub wrote: »

I think pubs have to remove the caps incase people were going to treat it like an offie, dunno the law on off sales.

You're right on one point, you don't know the law on off sales. A publican's licence (in the trade referred to as an 'on-licence') permits the sale of intoxicating liquor for consumption on or off the premises.

Bottle tops are removed at concerts to stop idiots chucking full bottles of water at the stage.

Hotblack Desiato

oblivious wrote: »

I though that was stopped to prevent the rise of Dublin super pubs?

The (former) inability to transfer licences into Dublin from outside it caused the rise of Dublin super pubs.

I think we can all agree that for a wide variety of reasons, licensing laws in this country are crazy.

coylemj

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The (former) inability to transfer licences into Dublin from outside it caused the rise of Dublin super pubs.

I think we can all agree that for a wide variety of reasons, licensing laws in this country are crazy.

+1 Unlike the Dublin taxi drivers who had to 'adopt' TDs like Ivor Callely to lobby to protect their protected status, the publicans themselves invaded the Dail in their droves and succeeded in stopping the introduction of any sensible measure over the years. Up to about 30 years ago the Dail was populated in the main by teachers, auctioneers and publicans.

Even in the recent FF/PD coalition (1997-2011), the grassroot publicans in FF blocked Michael McDowell (then Minister for Justice) who floated a proposal to licence cafes to serve alcoholic drinks with food.

The other issue is that publicans in urban areas were hellbent on stopping a system whereby you could lift a dormant rural licence and transplant it into an urban area to match the 20th century population shift from the country to the town. The result was the oft-quoted setup whereby Limerick had the same population as Tallaght but had about 50x times more pub licences and explains why in many of the newer suburbs of Dublin you have pubs the size of haybarns.

Hotblack Desiato

coylemj wrote: »

Up to about 30 years ago the Dail was populated in the main by teachers, auctioneers and publicans.

Add in sons/daughters of former TDs and your statement is true today.

oblivious

[QUOTE=Originally Posted by coylemj View Post
Up to about 30 years ago the Dail was populated in the main by teachers, auctioneers and publicans.[/QUOTE]

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Add in sons/daughters of former TDs and your statement is true today.

Dont think that has changed that much