Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

irish_goat

cruasder777 wrote: »

Some of their bars are 30m meters long. It can take 15 mins to get served.

Take a ticket with a number, a number flashes , hand your ticket to the staff, when its your turn, get served. Stops queue jumpers.

That would never work in a bar. First off, it would be messy, tickets would be all over the place. Secondly, people would approach the bar and take a load of tickets and pass them to their mates when they arrive a minute or two later. It also relies on drunk people having the wherewithal to understand it (which they wouldn't). No bar manager would introduce that system here.

It doesn't matter how long the bar is as long as there's enough staff on.

cruasder777

irish_goat wrote: »

That would never work in a bar. First off, it would be messy, tickets would be all over the place. Secondly, people would approach the bar and take a load of tickets and pass them to their mates when they arrive a minute or two later. It also relies on drunk people having the wherewithal to understand it (which they wouldn't). No bar manager would introduce that system here.

It doesn't matter how long the bar is as long as there's enough staff on.

EPoS ticket terminals are already in some pubs in Cardiff. If people abuse it, they get warned, if they continue, they get barred. Simple.

Much better then people queue jumping.

If someone is so drunk they cant understand a basic ticketing system, they should not be served another drink.

Wetherspoons are a professional stock market listed company, they dont want drunks in their pubs. I have never seen anyone paralytic in their pubs, they are more places to have a quiet drink and food.

Sofiztikated

Isn't it said that the English love a. good queue?

Irish people, not so much.

dregin

coylemj wrote: »

Dregin posted the above link with no comment and like me, a lot of you probably ignored it but I found it on Twitter and it's worth checking out. It's a 2m 41s movie report where Conor Pope checks out the TTT. You will need sound and it's safe to view at work.

A few things to note....

1. It's clearly made with the co-operation of the pub as there are shots from behind the counter.

2. It's not long enough to cover every aspect of the business so topics that have been widely discussed here like queuing and the quality of the staff isn't touched.

3. IMHO it's a fair and balanced report

Sorry, I see links like that in passing during work and just drop and run without actually reading, thinking that someone else may find them interesting.

coylemj

dregin wrote: »

Sorry, I see links like that in passing during work and just drop and run without actually reading, thinking that someone else may find them interesting.

A link with no comment can be a dangerous thing to click on. The text that you see ('www.irishtimes......') doesn't always equate to where the link will take you as happens with the spam e-mails which claim to be from your bank.

A quick one-liner will reassure people that it's a post to a bona fide website.

out da lough

I noticed that one of the parties welcoming the proposed introduction of "Minimum unit pricing" for alcohol last night on TV was a representative of the vintners association.

BeerNut

They still believe that supermarket pricing will one day reach a level where people will choose to drink in the pub instead of at home. It's nuts.

ThisRegard

out da lough wrote: »

I noticed that one of the parties welcoming the proposed introduction of "Minimum unit pricing" for alcohol last night on TV was a representative of the vintners association.

Lady from the off licence association on Sean O'Rourke at the moment also in favour.

From a moral point of view I'm against this, why should those of us who can manage alcohol sensibly be punished because of those that can't ? Why not a minimum price on burgers, chips etc ?

Having said that, the minimum price per unit that's being mooted doesn't seem likely to have any affect on what I buy anyway. Unless it's Christmas, and for other people, I never buy slabs etc of beer and the likes for which these measures seem targeted at.

L1011

The newspaper claims of "9 euro minimum bottle of wine" and "double the price of a can of beer" don't actually make any sense, no matter what calculation is being used.

I don't see any of 'spoons prices being affected, or realistically much other than the €13 bottles of 37.5% spirits in supermarkets and €20-for-24 cans of 4.3% beer.

oblivious

L1011 wrote: »

The newspaper claims of "9 euro minimum bottle of wine" .

12% by 750ml/1000 gives 9 unites of alcohol, multiply that by 0.6-1 (the range thats suggested) euro per unite of alcohol, gives a upper cost of 9 euro

L1011 wrote: »

I don't see any of 'spoons prices being affected, .

Their 1.95 sale could be as a pint of 4.2% would bring a upper min price of 2.10.

But it all depend on what price per unite of alcohol they go for

bucketybuck

ThisRegard wrote: »

Having said that, the minimum price per unit that's being mooted doesn't seem likely to have any affect on what I buy anyway. Unless it's Christmas, and for other people, I never buy slabs etc of beer and the likes for which these measures seem targeted at.

Prices will increase for all drinks as a consequence, not just for the cheap swill,. Its inevitable I'm afraid.

ThisRegard

But it surely depends on what the price per unit will be ? If I'm buying a beer that currently costs €4 (standard abv), that's not necessarily going to be affected ?

BaZmO*

bucketybuck wrote: »

Prices will increase for all drinks as a consequence, not just for the cheap swill,. Its inevitable I'm afraid.

Nope, it's a minimum price increase not a blanket price increase for all alcohol.

Sofiztikated

BaZmO* wrote: »

Nope, it's a minimum price increase not a blanket price increase for all alcohol.

Is what people say now.

Lets see when this come in, and 6 tins of Tuborg are €15, and 6 tins of Heineken are €15.

BaZmO*

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Is what people say now.

Lets see when this come in, and 6 tins of Tuborg are €15, and 6 tins of Heineken are €15.

Yeah but that's macro beers. You could make the case for the likes of Heineken increasing the cost of their beers to reflect their "premium" image, but that would just bring the cost closer to craft beers so it could end up being an own goal.

Bigcheeze

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Is what people say now.

Lets see when this come in, and 6 tins of Tuborg are €15, and 6 tins of Heineken are €15.

Exactly. If the "cheap piss" is now €2 per can, the "premium" piss will be a good bit more for branding reasons.

oblivious

BaZmO* wrote: »

Yeah but that's macro beers. You could make the case for the likes of Heineken increasing the cost of their beers to reflect their "premium" image, but that would just bring the cost closer to craft beers so it could end up being an own goal.

But the poor responsible consumer looses out by have to pay higher prices across the board

out da lough

We are being penalised for living on an island. I'll be indulging in "booze cruises" to France from now on. But why should I have to rent a van with two buddies and pay for a ferry trip to France just so that I can access quality wine at a reasonable price?

This nanny state scenario is gone over the top. I've never drunk spirits (apart from the odd Irish cofffee) and I enjoy some of the beers in Aldi that cost €7.29 for six 50 cl bottles. The Lidl equivalent was selling for €2 for a six pack in Spain earlier this year. From a regime of schoolteachers who gauge the market value of a used car from abroad for the purposes of VRT from the local Irish dealers, this is another example of the regime caving in to the lobbying of vested interests.

We already pay some of the highest prices in Europe for supermarket beers.

I'mm off to buy a homebrew kit online.

L1011

oblivious wrote: »

12% by 750ml/1000 gives 9 unites of alcohol, multiply that by 0.6-1 (the range thats suggested) euro per unite of alcohol, gives a upper cost of 9 euro

I can't see €1 per unit being justifiable at all - and seeing as the VFFI aren't in power right now, it can't be that likely either.

The other term being used in the spin currently is "banning below cost selling" which would imply that it'll be something not far off the duty+VAT cost, but that is of course different for beer, craft beer, wine and spirits respectively.

oblivious

L1011 wrote: »

I can't see €1 per unit being justifiable at all - and seeing as the VFFI aren't in power right now, it can't be that likely either.

The euro suggestion was the was the upper limit, but it may not be that unthinkable as its a sizeable gap been pub and shop prices. The other law of unintended consequences is it could see a price hike across the board to protect "premium" brands. The issue with spoons and "premium" brands is some we should be wary of .

L1011 wrote: »

The other term being used in the spin currently is "banning below cost selling" which would imply that it'll be something not far off the duty+VAT cost, but that is of course different for beer, craft beer, wine and spirits respectively.

Another is that the hit is take by the distributors and the switch from banning below cost selling to a price per unite

listermint

This whole notion just looks like its going to poor across the board. As others have stated I can see the 'rising tide lifts all boats' mentality. This is Ireland afterall , we will and do be taken for a ride.

Im thoroughly against this notion tbh, i think its ill conceived and has a very narrow objective.

bucketybuck

BaZmO* wrote: »

Nope, it's a minimum price increase not a blanket price increase for all alcohol.

I know what it is.

And the indirect consequence will be that all prices will rise further. Anybody who thinks otherwise is being very naive.

BaZmO*

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know what it is.

And the indirect consequence will be that all prices will rise further. Anybody who thinks otherwise is being very naive.

All prices? That's a pretty definitive statement. Any news on the Lotto numbers?

bucketybuck

BaZmO* wrote: »

All prices? That's a pretty definitive statement. Any news on the Lotto numbers?

Are you saying that you do not believe that prices will rise elsewhere? Because if so, please refer to my previous post.

listermint

BaZmO* wrote: »

All prices? That's a pretty definitive statement. Any news on the Lotto numbers?

I firmly believe this will be the case.

Why? You ask.

I've lived in ireland all my life.

coylemj

I'd agree that all prices will go up. The likes of Heineken and Guinness won't want their brands sitting alongside previously cheap brands and all at €2 a can so there will likely be upward movement in the premium brands.

You may think that the minimum price rule will simply mean that cheap brands will disappear but they won't, they will be sold at a higher margin to meet the minimum pricing model and the distributors and brewers will jack up the price of the current mainstream brands to maintain the current differentials.

In wine it may simply eliminate the cheaper bottles but again, this being Ireland, the retailers may simply shove them all up by €2 a bottle.

Blut2

If a minimum price is brought in does that mean retailers simply have to charge X amount per can, and the difference between the current price and X is added to their profits? Or is the difference made up in tax revenue for the state?

If its the former it seems rather wasteful, the latter isn't too bad though. I'd far rather people paid slightly more for their excessive boozing than a PAYE tax increase. I say this as someone who loves drinking - but booze is after all a self-destructive, luxury good much like cigarettes. It really should be taxed more heavily.

listermint

Blut2 wrote: »

If a minimum price is brought in does that mean retailers simply have to charge X amount per can, and the difference between the current price and X is added to their profits? Or is the difference made up in tax revenue for the state?

If its the former it seems rather wasteful, the latter isn't too bad though. I'd far rather people paid slightly more for their excessive boozing than a PAYE tax increase. I say this as someone who loves drinking - but booze is after all a self-destructive, luxury good much like cigarettes. It really should be taxed more heavily.

A paye increase?? What the hell does this have to do with paye?

Christ sake I'd that's the logic that's being employed this crap might pass.

This is solely and nothing other than lobbying by the vintners association. They've been on FG back since pre election and with spoons coming in the don't want any more erosion. Its disgusting stuff altogether. And health reasons it is not. Majority of stats indicate our consumption is dramatically down we are middle of EU but highest priced.

Its ridiculous. And don't bring paye into it. It had nothing to do with it.

Blut2

listermint wrote: »

A paye increase?? What the hell does this have to do with paye?

Christ sake I'd that's the logic that's being employed this crap might pass.

This is solely and nothing other than lobbying by the vintners association. They've been on FG back since pre election and with spoons coming in the don't want any more erosion. Its disgusting stuff altogether. And health reasons it is not. Majority of stats indicate our consumption is dramatically down we are middle of EU but highest priced.

Its ridiculous. And don't bring paye into it. It had nothing to do with it.

Slightly OT, but higher sumptuary taxes (ie on cigarettes or alcohol) = more revenue for the state = reduced need for PAYE tax. Something most people would agree is preferable - let those who choose to destroy themselves with drugs pay a premium for the burden they'll place on the health and social services, instead of taxing people on their employment. (again, not coming from a moral highground here - I drink heavily at least once a week).

But I would be curious as to the answer to my previous question, as to where the extra revenue will go from a minimum unit pricing..

Geuze

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know what it is.

And the indirect consequence will be that all prices will rise further. Anybody who thinks otherwise is being very naive.

Did ALL wage rates rise when the min wage was introduced?

Geuze

Blut2 wrote: »

If a minimum price is brought in does that mean retailers simply have to charge X amount per can, and the difference between the current price and X is added to their profits? Or is the difference made up in tax revenue for the state?

If its the former it seems rather wasteful, the latter isn't too bad though. I'd far rather people paid slightly more for their excessive boozing than a PAYE tax increase. I say this as someone who loves drinking - but booze is after all a self-destructive, luxury good much like cigarettes. It really should be taxed more heavily.

No change in excise duties.

Extra revenue to manufacturers / wholesaler / retailers.

Higher prices means a bit more VAT.

loyatemu

Geuze wrote: »

No change in excise duties.

Extra revenue to manufacturers / wholesaler / retailers.

Higher prices means a bit more VAT.

they should change the excise to match the minimum price, at least that way the extra money people are paying is going into the government's coffers rather than padding the profits of Tesco.

Anyway drink prices have been dropping for the last 20 years, and drink consumption has also been dropping - clearly what they need to do is reduce prices even further. Logically if booze was free, no-one would drink :pac:

bucketybuck

Geuze wrote: »

Did ALL wage rates rise when the min wage was introduced?

I'm sure you think this is smart but in reality a minimum wage is in no way equivalent to a minimum selling price of alcohol.

Again, do you really think that the pubs/brewers will not react to this new measure with an increase in all of their prices? Because again, that is a hopelessly naive opinion.

irish_goat

Bit disappointing it's British hops only but ah well.

ThisRegard

It says up to 50 ales from the UK and around the world ?

BaZmO*

Just a note:

Please use this thread for all Minimum Pricing discussions please.

noby

loyatemu wrote: »

they should change the excise to match the minimum price, at least that way the extra money people are paying is going into the government's coffers rather than padding the profits of Tesco.

But then all drinks will go up in price, not just the cheap ones.


Edit: Oops, sorry Baz.

BeerNut

irish_goat wrote: »

Bit disappointing it's British hops only but ah well.

Given the mess the contracted British brewers usually make of new world recipes for Wetherspoon festivals I'm kinda glad they're doing it this way.

irish_goat

ThisRegard wrote: »

It says up to 50 ales from the UK and around the world ?

Normally that means they import brewers from around the world who brew their own recipes in a UK brewery, and assumingly the rule is they have to use British hops.

noby

irish_goat wrote: »

Normally that means they import brewers from around the world who brew their own recipes in a UK brewery, and assumingly the rule is they have to use British hops.

Yep. I'm one of ten brewers heading to the UK next week to brew. FWIW I'm doing a stout.

irish_goat

BeerNut wrote: »

Given the mess the contracted British brewers usually make of new world recipes for Wetherspoon festivals I'm kinda glad they're doing it this way.

True but a lot of the English breweries are doing great things with the new world hops in traditional styles.

BeerNut

noby wrote: »

Yep. I'm one of ten brewers heading to the UK next week to brew. FWIW I'm doing a stout.

Adnams? Please say Adnams.

noby

Not this time. Wadworths.

BeerNut

Well at least it's not Caledonian.

oblivious

BeerNut wrote: »

Well at least it's not Caledonian.

Although a butterscotch stout might be Interesting

BeerNut

oblivious wrote: »

Although a butterscotch stout might be Interesting

JDW already has one on keg. It's called Bath Ales Dark Side.

Blut2

Slight bump, but I find this is generally the best thread on Boards relating to Wetherspoons so I figure I'll ask here -

Has anyone been in TTT on a Friday evening in the last month or two? I was there quite a few times last summer / autumn and although it was busy, you'd usually find room to stand (and eventually sit). And a grand crowd. A friend is trying to get us to go tomorrow night but I've heard tales recently of Friday nights there being full of underage kids, being literally so full the bouncers stop letting people in. Has anyone any recent experience of it?

cruasder777

Blut2 wrote: »

Slight bump, but I find this is generally the best thread on Boards relating to Wetherspoons so I figure I'll ask here -

Has anyone been in TTT on a Friday evening in the last month or two? I was there quite a few times last summer / autumn and although it was busy, you'd usually find room to stand (and eventually sit). And a grand crowd. A friend is trying to get us to go tomorrow night but I've heard tales recently of Friday nights there being full of underage kids, being literally so full the bouncers stop letting people in. Has anyone any recent experience of it?

Very much doubt they serve underage kids,its illegal, they are a proper business.

BaZmO*

Could you imagine the field day the press (and the Vintners Association) would have if Spoons were serving under age kids!

Lovely Bloke

yeah, no doubt they've already sent in a few sneaky minors to see if they'd get ID'd and served.