Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

Lucena

To be honest, Spoons can be all things to all men. Cheap brekkies and coffee. Cheap lunch. Somewhere to go for a cheap pint of two in the evening before heading on somewhere else. A place to drink beer that isn't available elsewhere.

It doesn't do any one of these things brilliantly, but it does all of them well enough to get different types of customer in during the day. They'll do well.

limnam

Lucena wrote: »

It doesn't do any one of these things brilliantly, but it does all of them well enough to get different types of customer in during the day. They'll do well.

They will do fantastically well.

I just don't seem them doing fantastically well in that specific spot.

BeerNut

limnam wrote: »

A publicans wet dream.

But there are no publicans involved in Wetherspoon, just like there are no restaurateurs involved in McDonalds or café owners involved in Starbucks. What they offer isn't somebody's decision; it's decided centrally by accountants and marketing people who understand the numbers on a very big yet precise level. It's why you can put one pretty much anywhere.

limnam wrote: »

How diverse is the customer base in blackrock?

I was in on a weekday afternoon back in January and there was a young business type grabbing a quick lunch while jabbing at his laptop, two ladies from different offices catching up over coffee, a bunch of oul lads enjoying cheap pints and, obviously, a beer nerd noticing all of this. Pretty diverse, I thought. No families, but they're always there on weekend afternoons.

Bear in mind Wetherspoon is the fifth-largest seller of breakfasts in the UK and aiming to treble those sales by the end of next year.

lk67

Surely there's another few benefits to Wetherspoons opening anywhere too. They can bring extra footfall to a particular area and they make the bars close by have a long hard look at their business model.

They one opening on Tullow street in Carlow could be a godsend to an area that has lost its place as the main shopping area and perhaps revitalise it as the food and drink area. It already has a couple of decent bars and restaurants.

I for one look forward to it

Lovely Bloke

BeerNut wrote: »

No families, but they're always there on weekend afternoons.

Yep, I was in with my son, wife and sister in law one Saturday afternoon for lunch and a couple of beers.

lk67 wrote: »

Surely there's another few benefits to Wetherspoons opening anywhere too. They can bring extra footfall to a particular area and they make the bars close by have a long hard look at their business model

This is the second reason why I like them so much - first is the new beer choices they have, but the way they are making "traditional" pubs nervous is a definite boon. It's hilarious that instead of changing their practices they are going down the protectionism route, fighting a losing battle to "keep Spoons out".

ceekay74

limnam wrote: »

Second thoughts, yes cheap booze cheap food. Tallaght is perfect.

There's about 15 pubs in Tallaght, Spoons could open multiple premises & do well.

anncoates

Plenty of scope for a spoons in Tallaght despite this nonsense about target markets, which I presume is a snobbish euphemism for saying it's too rough out there.

The site of the now closed Abberley Court, for example, has got loads of varied footfall in about a mile or two radius that could benefit a Spoons: settled suburban estates, a college, hospital, various hotels, offices, a shopping centre etc.

limnam

anncoates wrote: »

Plenty of scope for a spoons in Tallaght despite this nonsense about target markets, which I presume is a snobbish euphemism for saying it's too rough out there.

The site of the now closed Abberley Court, for example, has got loads of varied footfall in about a mile or two radius that could benefit a Spoons: settled suburban estates, a college, hospital, various hotels, offices, a shopping centre etc.

You presume wrong.
The cuckoos nest spot is not the abberly court, which would be an excellent area for a spoons.

Try reading threads more closely.
The problem is not Tallaght, it's the location of the cuckoos nest in tallaght.

anncoates

limnam wrote: »

The problem is not Tallaght, it's the location of the cuckoos nest in tallaght.

Abberly is obviously a prime spot for most pubs but the Cuckoo's actually wasn't a particularly rough spot. Nor is the Penny Black just up the road.

I'm not sure, as said, JDW pubs have a typical area as such, certainly not in the UK.

limnam

anncoates wrote: »

Abberly is obviously a prime spot for most pubs but the Cuckoo's actually wasn't a particularly rough spot. Nor is the Penny Black just up the road.

I'm not sure, as said, JDW pubs have a typical area as such, certainly not in the UK.

No one suggested it was rough, it's just not great location wise it's in an awkward sort of location. It's fairly limited business wise, student wise. limited public transport access. compared to say the abberly you have a ton of bus routes the luas, the college a huge amount of local business and offices blocks etc.

The main point was as far as locations go in Tallaght, IMVHO the nest would be one of the worst choices for spoons compared to other options.

anncoates

limnam wrote: »

No one suggested it was rough, it's just not great location wise it's in an awkward sort of location. It's fairly limited business wise, student wise. limited public transport access. compared to say the abberly you have a ton of bus routes the luas, the college a huge amount of local business and offices blocks etc.

Cuckoos was usually quite busy whenever I was there. Was a strange one it went under but you wouldn't know if it was something like a remortgage or other business debts pulling it down.

There's a very decent residential catchment there to be fair, between Tymon, Tallaght Village, Walkinstown and Kilnamanagh.

Obviously not on the level of the Abberley though which I agree.

ceekay74

limnam wrote: »

The main point was as far as locations go in Tallaght, IMVHO the nest would be one of the worst choices for spoons compared to other options.

There are lots of locations in Tallaght that would do well. The Nest wouldn't do as well as the abberley site obviously, but I'd say it would do as well if not better than say the belgard, or the old mills locations.

Don't forget that the nest has been there surviving for a very long time, went through some bad years due to the recession and their inability to decrease prices enough.

Spoons would fill the place with their prices. Even if it wasn't the only spoons in Tallaght.

Simon2015

The prices wetherspoons charge seem too good to be true.

I wonder are the low prices just to build up market share here, so that once they have established themselves in Ireland their prices will be more inline with what other pubs here charge ?

dregin

Simon2015 wrote: »

The prices wetherspoons charge seem too good to be true.

I wonder are the low prices just to build up market share here, so that once they have established themselves in Ireland their prices will be more inline with what other pubs here chagre ?

Why would they change the model that's worked for so long for them in the UK?

oblivious

Simon2015 wrote: »

I wonder are the low prices just to build up market share here, so that once they have established themselves in Ireland their prices will be more inline with what other pubs here chagre ?

Its not the model they run in the uk, and if they did the would be inst situation a lot of Irish pubs would be in. Lager premises and dropped foot fall and takings .

But they are not just after pub business, the are a very lager sellers of coffee, possibly the largest in the UK. They will pull business for cafe's and other food outlets the public deem to be overpriced or bad value.

My local Odeon cinema charges 12.50 mid week for a ticket. You could get a meal and two selected pints for that at the spoons that opening at the ending of the month.

rob316

Simon2015 wrote: »

The prices wetherspoons charge seem too good to be true.

I wonder are the low prices just to build up market share here, so that once they have established themselves in Ireland their prices will be more inline with what other pubs here chagre ?

You are thinking of them as a traditional pub they aren't. They make their money from the food. They are largest seller of breakfasts in the UK and have huge sales of coffee also. The alcohol is the cherry on top.

rubadub

A while back Eddie rockets were selling heineken for €2.50 a pint, similarly making the money on food more than the drink.

Diceys in the Russel court hotel has had €2 pints on certain days for years now, even paulaner is €2 not just some cheaper stuff like tuborg. They sell food on those days, but it is also very cheap.

Geuze

Simon2015 wrote: »

The prices wetherspoons charge seem too good to be true.

I wonder are the low prices just to build up market share here, so that once they have established themselves in Ireland their prices will be more inline with what other pubs here chagre ?

In NI, their prices are permanently lower than other pubs.

Geuze

Simon2015 wrote: »

The prices wetherspoons charge seem too good to be true.

I wonder are the low prices just to build up market share here, so that once they have established themselves in Ireland their prices will be more inline with what other pubs here chagre ?

Ryanair's fares are permanently lower than other airlines.

They have thrived with this model, and earn large profits.

Low cost wins.

JD WS now have approaching 1,000 pubs - a massive success.

ThisRegard

Bobby Kerrs 'opinion' on it.

http://www.newstalk.com/Bobby-Kerr-on-disruption-and-Wetherspoons

As reviews go, he's never going to trouble a food blogger. His conclusion is that they're just not for him, no rhyme or reason as to why. Has he investments in Irish pubs ?

L1011

Geuze wrote: »

Ryanair's fares are permanently lower than other airlines.

They're really, really not.

Pick ten sets of comparable routings and its likely the competitors will be cheaper on anywhere between 20-100% of them.

Someone in work got stung for a hundred quid (25%+ of the return total price) and a set of crap flight times going to Nice assuming Ryanair were "always cheaper"

Lucena

In the piece he states "My 24- and 21-year-old daughters are part of what is known as the 'Lost Generation'. They do not go to pubs. They drink at home or in other people’s houses and then go to nightclubs in town."

As I haven't lived in Ireland in a long time, can anyone tell me if this is actually true?

L1011

Lucena wrote: »

In the piece he states "My 24- and 21-year-old daughters are part of what is known as the 'Lost Generation'. They do not go to pubs. They drink at home or in other people’s houses and then go to nightclubs in town."

As I haven't lived in Ireland in a long time, can anyone tell me if this is actually true?

Ish. He's the one who's named them, though.

BaZmO*

Lucena wrote: »

In the piece he states "My 24- and 21-year-old daughters are part of what is known as the 'Lost Generation'. They do not go to pubs. They drink at home or in other people’s houses and then go to nightclubs in town."

As I haven't lived in Ireland in a long time, can anyone tell me if this is actually true?

I'm a long time out of that age bracket but from speaking to people in work or friends cousins, nieces/nephews, etc. it would seem that there is a bit of truth in it. High cost of drinks in bars would be a big factor in it from what I've heard anecdotally.

Lucena

The difference in prices between pubs and drinking at home are certainly more marked nowadays in Ireland.

Over 20 years ago, a 50cl can of beer was around a pound, whereas a pint was two pounds. So a 1:2 ratio. That ratio is probably nearer to 1:3.5 today, from what I’ve seen when I go home. I could definitely see why the young’uns would do more "prinking".

Avada

Lucena wrote: »

The difference in prices between pubs and drinking at home are certainly more marked nowadays in Ireland.

Over 20 years ago, a 50cl can of beer was around a pound, whereas a pint was two pounds. So a 1:2 ratio. That ratio is probably nearer to 1:3.5 today, from what I’ve seen when I go home. I could definitely see why the young’uns would do more "prinking".

Its more like 1:5 in my area, and a hell of a lot more if you drink spirits.

ThisRegard

As I mentioned in the other thread, after being charged €7.70 for a 500ml bottle of O'Haras on Saturday, I can certainly see their reasoning behind it.

L1011

Avada wrote: »

Its more like 1:5 in my area, and a hell of a lot more if you drink spirits.

10.00 for a whiskey that costs 40 a bottle is a common enough one these days.

It's probably worse if you're on spirits + mixers somewhere that only does glass bottles of mixer.

Heroditas

ThisRegard wrote: »

Bobby Kerrs 'opinion' on it.

http://www.newstalk.com/Bobby-Kerr-on-disruption-and-Wetherspoons

As reviews go, he's never going to trouble a food blogger. His conclusion is that they're just not for him, no rhyme or reason as to why. Has he investments in Irish pubs ?

This is a key line:

I hope and pray that this is not the pub of the future - but it may be the final reminder that Irish publicans need to wake up and smell the coffee, which incidentally 'spoons sell for €1.

Seeing that Bobby is the chair of Insomnia, he might very well see Wetherspoons as a threat to his coffee shop business and others like it.

oblivious

Heroditas wrote: »

Seeing that Bobby is the chair of Insomnia, he might very well see Wetherspoons as a threat to his coffee shop business and others like it.

I laughed a little when i saw Bobby quote. Spoons are one of the biggest if not the biggest sell of coffee in the uk

rubadub

Lucena wrote: »

Over 20 years ago, a 50cl can of beer was around a pound, whereas a pint was two pounds. So a 1:2 ratio. That ratio is probably nearer to 1:3.5 today, from what I’ve seen when I go home. I could definitely see why the young’uns would do more "prinking".

I remember 20 years ago the cheapest cans were £1 (€1.27). There is a guinness price index comparing prices of pints to average wage and there has been a steady increase in the price of pints and its pretty much in proportion to wages.

Its the cheap cans that have gotten cheaper, instead of appreciating that people moan about the pubs fleecing them. The pubs allow themselves to be fleeced by the wholesalers/brewers though.

A bottle of cheap rum is €11.69 in tesco, 20 years ago I think the cheapest bottle of spirits was £10 (€12.70).

When you see such difference its little wonder people will stay at home first, and not just young people strapped for cash, it must annoy folks with a good few million, to know they are paying over the odds for the exact same thing (i.e. it is not a restaurant adding value by a skilled chef, its opening a bottle). People also have better entertainment systems at home these days, years ago you would be searching pubs for one with a big screen for football, while nearly everybody has a big screen nowadays.

Your mate might even supply water free! this is a post from consumer issues today

koremelt wrote: »

Some friends were in a pub in Dublin (well known pub on Baggot Street) at the weekend,
about 8 of them all drinking alcohol, one went to the bar around 12 and asked for a pint of water having had enough and was refused... Have to say when I heard this I was outraged, barman's reasoning was that if everyone came in and ordered water they would go under.
She bought a sparkling water but they left soon after.
Thought this kind of c*&p went out the window with the Celtic Tiger

Geuze

Yes, the relative prices of off-licence vs pub is a key explanation for the fall off in the pub trade.

20 years ago: can £1 vs pint £2 approx

Now, Guinness can in special offer is 1 euro, or widely available for maybe 1.50 in other deals vs 4.10 in a pub.

Blut2

It's a 1:5 ratio (or worse) in Dublin. 1eur a can vs 5.50e+ a pint most places in town.

For the average young guy going out and having 8 pints thats 40eur a night in savings, or 80eur a week. Thats huge, especially considering their incomes wouldn't be high to begin with.

Wetherspoons at 2.50eur a pint (or less) is cheap enough where people will pay the premium, thats why its a game changer for the younger generation. 1:2.5 ratio people will pay as a 'pub premium', as they might have 20 years ago. Its at 1:5 they won't.

ThisRegard

Heroditas wrote: »

This is a key line:



Seeing that Bobby is the chair of Insomnia, he might very well see Wetherspoons as a threat to his coffee shop business and others like it.

Very true, didn't click with me on first browse through.

bucketybuck

rubadub wrote: »

Its the cheap cans that have gotten cheaper, instead of appreciating that people moan about the pubs fleecing them.

Just because the cheap cans have gotten cheaper does not mean that the pubs aren't fleecing us.

rubadub

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just because the cheap cans have gotten cheaper does not mean that the pubs aren't fleecing us.

I know, my point is that if they are fleecing us then it appears to be nothing new, and the fleecing has increased proportionately with wages and the price of other products. The odd one out is cheap cans & spirits which have actually dropped in price.

http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm
if these figures are to be believed in 1993 you would have got 144 pints for the average weekly wage, in 2013 it would be 155 pints.

People are making out like the pubs are charging outrageous prices compared to years ago. Some smart publicans buy from supermarkets, some are letting themselves be fleeced by the brewers.

ThisRegard

rubadub wrote: »

People are making out like the pubs are charging outrageous prices compared to years ago.

But many are, enough for the extortionate prices to muddy the waters and people only think of the ridiculous price they were charged in one place and not the average price they regularly pay.

TheChizler

I think the lack of loud music in Spoons could be a positive. After price, a good part of the reason my friends would choose to drink at home before going out is that you can't have a chat in many bars because of the volume levels.

Heroditas

rubadub wrote: »

I remember 20 years ago the cheapest cans were £1 (€1.27). There is a guinness price index comparing prices of pints to average wage and there has been a steady increase in the price of pints and its pretty much in proportion to wages.

Its the cheap cans that have gotten cheaper, instead of appreciating that people moan about the pubs fleecing them. The pubs allow themselves to be fleeced by the wholesalers/brewers though.

A bottle of cheap rum is €11.69 in tesco, 20 years ago I think the cheapest bottle of spirits was £10 (€12.70).

When you see such difference its little wonder people will stay at home first, and not just young people strapped for cash, it must annoy folks with a good few million, to know they are paying over the odds for the exact same thing (i.e. it is not a restaurant adding value by a skilled chef, its opening a bottle). People also have better entertainment systems at home these days, years ago you would be searching pubs for one with a big screen for football, while nearly everybody has a big screen nowadays.

Your mate might even supply water free! this is a post from consumer issues today

Excellently articulated and an argument that I've been making for years.
Pubs aren't any dearer, off-licences are just relatively cheaper.

TheChizler wrote: »

I think the lack of loud music in Spoons could be a positive. After price, a good part of the reason my friends would choose to drink at home before going out is that you can't have a chat in many bars because of the volume levels.

A massive selling point for me. I'm fed up with pubs blaring Sky Sports all day long or having music at full blast.

Lucena

Can't understand why people would drink spirits in a pub, it's pure madness. It's not like they'll serve you a rare 25 year old single malt anyway, it'll just be some generic whisk(e)y.

irish_goat

Lucena wrote: »

Can't understand why people would drink spirits in a pub, it's pure madness. It's not like they'll serve you a rare 25 year old single malt anyway, it'll just be some generic whisk(e)y.

What? Plenty of pubs have decent whiskey selections.

Simon2015

Lucena wrote: »

Can't understand why people would drink spirits in a pub, it's pure madness. It's not like they'll serve you a rare 25 year old single malt anyway, it'll just be some generic whisk(e)y.

Some spirits you can only get in pubs like after shock.

Lucena

@irish goat

I had a sheltered upbringing in Offaly, where the whiskey selection, at least the ones visible to me, were the same ones you'd find in a normal supermarket.

I'm sure plenty of pubs have decent selections, but the majority wouldn't.

On the rare occasions when I was out with friends who started hitting the whiskey, it was because they were already fairly drunk and looking to get drunker, not because they wanted to sample a rare whisky from the Isle of Islay.

irish_goat

Lucena wrote: »

@irish goat

I had a sheltered upbringing in Offaly, where the whiskey selection, at least the ones visible to me, were the same ones you'd find in a normal supermarket.

I'm sure plenty of pubs have decent selections, but the majority wouldn't.

On the rare occasions when I was out with friends who started hitting the whiskey, it was because they were already fairly drunk and looking to get drunker, not because they wanted to sample a rare whisky from the Isle of Islay.

Ah I get ya. I've found country pubs are starting to get the odd whiskey in that wouldn't be a bog standard supermarket one though. To be fair to Wetherspoons, their selection is pretty decent and very reasonably priced.

L1011

Lucena wrote: »

I had a sheltered upbringing in Offaly, where the whiskey selection, at least the ones visible to me, were the same ones you'd find in a normal supermarket.

I've generally found rural auld lads pubs are the ones that are almost guaranteed to have a few bottles of good, old single malt Scotch and Irish hanging around. Whereas my local (which has slowly grown to be a superpub in the time I've drunk there) has a single bottle of Johnny Walker Black usually as its "premium" whiskey.

Back home they'd usually have ten or more bottles on the top shelf; and with country prices it was the first place I got to try Bushmills 21, Midleton and a few non-supermarket Scotchs also.

Sofiztikated

Simon2015 wrote: »

Some spirits you can only get in pubs like after shock.

Aftershock isn't a spirit. It's a cinnamon flavoured liqueur, and can be purchased in Dunnes, Tesco, SuperValu, and many, MANY offies.

*end pedant*

Simon2015

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Aftershock isn't a spirit. It's a cinnamon flavoured liqueur, and can be purchased in Dunnes, Tesco, SuperValu, and many, MANY offies.

*end pedant*

I have never seen aftershock onsale in Dunnes or Tesco. The only place I seen it in is in pubs and clubs.

rubadub

Simon2015 wrote: »

I have never seen aftershock onsale in Dunnes or Tesco.

It is overpriced cheaply made shite. I think people just stopped buying it years ago and so that is why some places might not stock it. It was about €40 a bottle, ridiculous.

And many would describe it as a spirit, and a liquer as a subset of spirits. Just like you can call guinness a beer, stout being a subset of beer. In revenues definitions its spirits.

L1011

Its showing as unavailable on Tesco UK and not at all on the Irish search - however, that'd be down to it really not being popular rather than some exclusivity going on.

That its manufacturer is too embarrassed to actually show it on the brands on their website (its buried in a full listing - https://beamglobal.s3.amazonaws.com/sites/505757e5851916549a000002/theme/pdfs/pdfs/Brands_List_043014.pdf) speaks volumes

ceekay74

Simon2015 wrote: »

I have never seen aftershock onsale in Dunnes or Tesco. The only place I seen it in is in pubs and clubs.

My local dunnes sells it.

Horrible stuff.