Man your pumps, Wetherspoons are coming

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120315296#Comment_120315296

They're out of maybe 10% of their options any time I've been there at most. You can always check on the Spoons app live whats in stock before going too.

They have two beers out of stock as of right now it looks like, every other beer is available.

Cloudio9

In Swords right now they have four cask ales on at €1.95 and Jaipur on at €2.45. You couldn’t buy Jaipur in an off license for under €3.

TipsyMcStagge

It just goes to show how much all the other publicans are ripping us off 7 euro for a pint my hole.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335684#Comment_120335684

1. The vast, vast majority of pubs in Ireland charge nothing even close to 7€ for regular pints.

2. There are pubs struggling and going out of business every day, allover the country.

Analysis my hole.

I pay £5 for cask Jaipur in the UK and am very happy too.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339192#Comment_120339192

They're getting a lot closer to 7 quid now in a lot of places its over 5er pretty much everywhere its pure gouging.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339653#Comment_120339653

Excellent analysis, again.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340144#Comment_120340144

Thank you very much. If you are happy to be ripped off by publicans you go right ahead I'll happily sup cheap/reasonably priced pints in Wetherspoons.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335684#Comment_120335684

The macro breweries and distributors are the stage in the chain making huge profits here. Often a small/medium pub can't even buy wholesale at the equivalent retail price that Wetherspoons are able to sell at.

Pre MUP, offer prices on spirits in supermarkets were often less than a small pub could buy them for from a distributor.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340177#Comment_120340177

To be fair. Any publican paying more than the retail price in a supermarket to a distributor is pretty dumb, imo.

Just buy it in the supermarket!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340190#Comment_120340190

Most of them did! Not as common a situation post-MUP

I still know a pub that sells takeout cans that they've bought in supermarkets at MUP.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339192#Comment_120339192

You're not getting much change from 7euro for a regular pint anywhere in Dublin these days. These are two suburban pubs for example, not even city center, and not late bars/night clubs. Pint of Heineken is 6.70e and 6.50e:

https://droppingwell.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/dropping-well-drinks-menu.pdf

https://www.theblackrock.ie/wp-content/uploads/Drinks-and-Cocktail-Menu.pdf

Thats the standard 'local' pub price these days. Its more expensive in lots of places. The "vast, vast majority of pubs" are charging very close to €7 for regular pints.

Pubs struggling and going out of business suggests they're badly run, there are too many of them, and they're charging more for their product than the market can take. If Spoons can make a profit on €1.95 pints then it just shows it can be done.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340445#Comment_120340445

Spot on even in places like Maynooth and Kilcock it can be anywhere from 5.30-6.50 a pint its scandalous.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340533#Comment_120340533

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340445#Comment_120340445

Well, when the new licensing laws come in, grab a license and sell 1.95 pints, let us know how you get on.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340553#Comment_120340553

Keep charging 7 euro a pint and see how long you stay in business for.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340891#Comment_120340891

I'm not a publican, I'm just someone who understands scale and logistics.

Explain how you'll make a profit as a single entity when 1.95 a pint wouldn't cover the keg.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120335684#Comment_120335684

If you want bland mixed with basic service, then wetherspoons is ideal. There's a market for it. Same in the UK, wetherspoons can be a few doors from a pub that charges 7.00 (stg) and at night its the 7.00 pub that's heaving because it has put the investment into making it worth it.

Same here.

In blackrock, even with lower prices they could not compete with the overall offering of other pubs and sold the premises at a substantial loss

They are a good addition and they'll grow, but other pubs at a different price level won't be overly concerned

DelmarODonnell

Was in Keavan's Port on Camden Street on Wednesday. Ordered a glass of one of the cask ales, charged €1.25 and then was given a full pint. They must be selling a lot of substandard food to make up for their generous barmen :)

the beer revolu

If the price of a pint went up by 50 or 70 cents people would lose their absolute shlt but here are people claiming that €5.30 to €6.50 and €6.70 is actually €7.

All very strange.

Anyway, didn't you lot stop drinking when the pint went above €5? It was the same bleeting then as it always has been.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340935#Comment_120340935

I'm not arguing that all pints should be 1.95 I'm saying that publicans charging up to 7 euro and sometimes more for a single pint are taking the p1ss which they very much are.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341366#Comment_120341366

Grand you're happy to be gouged we get it. Good luck to ya.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341050#Comment_120341050

"sold the premises at a substantial loss" -- what? They made a huge profit on it, as discussed multiple times in this very thread. They sold it for "in excess of €2.5mn". Which is a tidy profit considering they'd only bought it for €1.5mn 8 years beforehand. They almost doubled their money. These figures were reported in the press, they're easily available.

I know for a fact when they opened in Blackrock the other pubs in the village were concerned, and they did lose custom to them. For the whole of its existence it was the busiest pub in Blackrock every weekend.

The other pubs in the area have similar electricity costs, similar staffing costs, similar premises costs etc. Theres just no excuse to be charging 300% the price for the same product.

The only argument I've ever seen that holds any water is that Spoons get a big discount for negotiating with its suppliers in bulk. But whats stopping pubs from grouping together doing that through a LVI style body? In this day and age you either evolve your business or fail, sticking to what worked in the 1950s isn't going to cut it.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341490#Comment_120341490

And how much did they spend on doing it up?

They said they spent over €1.5million in extending it and upgrading it.

The 2.5m sale price represented a loss of €500,000

It also operated at a loss - hence the sale.

BeerNut

The pubs couldn't do a consortium deal via the LVA or similar because it would be seen as price fixing. JDW can do it because it's one single company.

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342116#Comment_120342116

Also funny how buying for €1.5m and selling for €2.5m is "almost doubling your money"!

Sure what's half a million Euros between friends?

But I guess if 6.5 = 7, then 1000000 = 1500000.

The absolute gross exaggeration being used to try and make points is hilarious.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342116#Comment_120342116

Spoons announced plans to spend €1.5mn to refurbish Tonic in 2013 when they bought it initially but they spent nothing close to that in reality. Anyone who ever stepped inside the place could have told you that.

It only operated at a loss after the Dun Laoghaire Spoons opened, because they then had two large pubs in a small catchment area. Before that it was very profitable - thats why they opened a second location so close-by. They obviously wouldn't have expanded in the area if the first pub was doing so terribly.

The overall financial picture was very clear -as a combination they made a profit on buying, renovating, running and selling Blackrock.

All the desperation to disparage Spoons is funny - theres a reason they're absolutely jammed every weekend, despite their large capacity, while pubs local to them are struggling and closing. They're just better run businesses, with fairer prices for consumers. Irish publicans will need to adapt or fail, they can either go high end to justify their high prices or they can cut prices. But the days of the old local pub with nothing to show for it but high prices are numbered.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340177#Comment_120340177

Yes.

I have a certain amount of sympathy with most pubs.

It's the dominant supplier/wholesalers who are making the profits.

Geuze

Does anybody know how much Diageo/Heineken charge pubs in Ireland for a keg, compared to what the same firms charge a typical UK pub?

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120344848#Comment_120344848

The Blackrock one closed and is replaced by a much more expensive bar.

It is now much busier, since it became more expensive, than it was when it was a Spoons.

Krusty_Clown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346148#Comment_120346148

I used to like the Dark Horse, but after the Three Tun tavern opened, it didn't last long. Until the 40 foot opened the Three Tun Tavern was by far the busiest spot in Blackrock. The pandemic was the nail in the coffin. I dropped in for a drink when the pandemic rules relaxed and it was a pretty awful experience - they appeared to have abandoned the pub in favour of the 40 foot, and were just biding time until they could close it and sell it.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346341#Comment_120346341

Pandemic impacted for sure, I think the novelty had worn off also.

There is a space for Wetherspoons, but I am glad to see they havent opened too many places in Dublin. There beer is good for the price, but the atmosphere is poor. Like socialising in a hotel lobby.

The UK pubs are associated with poverty and doleys drinking their money away.

To be fair to them, they did a brilliant job of the Keavans Port building.

I think long term, Blackrock was never really their target market.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120344848#Comment_120344848

All the desperation to disparage Spoons is funny - theres a reason they're absolutely jammed every weekend, despite their large capacity, while pubs local to them are struggling and closing.

They are quite busy on weekends, but so are the pubs around them, spoons has it's market, but it hasn't impacted on the flowing tide, briodys or the confession box on abbey st, or brewdog or the ferryman or the windjammer at grand canal dock.

Which pubs have closed as a result of wetherspoons?

conor678

I think the criticism weatherspoons gets for soulessnessis harsh. I am not entirely sure what is the ideal pub atmosphere but give me a pub with good space, good value drinks and volume to speak in (no music or racing on full whack volume) , friends and i am happy. Weatherspoons does fit that bill lots of the times.

I've been in the UK for 10 plus years and been in a variety of spoons. The vast majority are clean, nicely furnished and reliable. There's been a few which are dicey but only about 5% of the 15 plus I've been in and they werein **** hole towns in general. I wish them all the best in Ireland and hopefully will shake up the market for value

Black Sheep

There's a bit of variation in UK Spoons. A few are in nice period buildings, and have more of a tourist crowd at times... The New town one in Edinburgh for example.

But at the end of the day ... that Jaipur price... My god.

ben.schlomo

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/green-light-for-galways-first-wetherspoons-at-eglinton-street/

Green light for Galway's Spoons.

DownByTheGarden

I was in the one on Camden street last week when i was doing some work for a company near by. What a lovely place. We went to the Bleeder for a pint and then over to Wetherspoons. Massive difference in the prices. The lads I was with who work around there said they doubt they will be going to the Bleeder anymore for the go to. It will be Wetherspoons. Had food there too and cannot complain about either the quality or the price. In fact the lads were telling me that other people in the company had switched to going to Wetherspoons for lunch instead of the other local places they used to eat lunch and they will probably do the same now.

The only other one I was ever in in Ireland was the one on Abbery Street and I thought it was one of the worst dumps I have ever set foot in. Didnt even stay for a pint. Walked out straight away.

Geuze

This suggests the pub chain is not going ahead with the Aston quay site in Dublin:

https://twitter.com/MarkyDub/status/1665321655734771712

patscott27

Beamish and Fosters 4.25 in town. Swords is cheaper. 2.50 Real Ales often run dry but not so much on Abbey st silver penny which I think has the biggest capacity or maybe its Keavens on Camden st. Get a 2x rum and coke for 7 quid. I don't go in after 5 on a Fri or Sat as the wait times can be over an hour. Food is just OK but reasonable. All draught under a fiver. Pt bottle of Heineken is 6.50. So if you are flexible you will save a few bucks.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120346391#Comment_120346391

Really atmosphere is created by the crowd you're with. Most of the notion of striking up amazing convos with complete strangers in a bar is a myth.

I've been in Keaven's Port a few times, great spot for a night out after work (which is rare enough, but there's going to be a retirement soon...)

irish_goat

Found the atmosphere in Keaven's Port to be fine when I was in. The Spoons in Belfast is a different story though, it's a large square shaped room and the crowd it gets is very much there for drinking. It tends to be quite noisy and busy, and there's constantly dirty glasses piled up around the place. Probably the worst Spoons I've been to to be honest. Still, £2.56 a pint is hard to argue with.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696156#Comment_120696156

I agree the crowd play a part but certain pubs develop a better atmosphere than others.

It's the difference between drinking with friends in a classic irish pub with a bit of trad music and tourists mingling from all over the world vs having a pint in a travelodge cafe bar with piercing lighting, disinterested faces and a general air of banality. :)

Spoons are good for cheap beers, maybe a meeting point. But somewhere like Dublin has sooo much more to offer.

Fair play to Tim Martin for erecting the sound barrier though and not just ignoring the complaints.

Hotblack Desiato

Thankfully in my 30+ years of legal drinking age and having lived in Ireland all my life, I've never had the misfortune of walking into a pub with "a bit of trad music".

the beer revolu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700354#Comment_120700354

What??

L1011

Interesting thing coming now due to the UKs changing duty rules - the half duty limit is 3.4% from the start of August (up from 2.8%) and its predicted that lots of 3.something beers will change to 3.4% to get the duty.

Carlsberg is the first to announce the change, and UK Carlsberg is what Wetherspoons sell. The duty cut won't have any affect here - well, it will get cheaper by virtue of going down from 3.8%, but the further halving won't - but I could see them having to cut the price by more than the small duty change here, as it is likely to be obviously weak.

Geuze

So the excise duty on a 5% cider will be 9.67 versus 21.01 for the same strength beer?

That's a wider gap than I expected.

L1011

Was normal for years to have cider cheaper, hence its reputation for giant bottles at cheap prices being drunk by teenagers, alcoholics etc. We rammed the rates up in the early 00s I think?

edit: December 2001

adaminho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842894#Comment_120842894

Cider was always cheaper as it encouraged the local Orchards to produce apples. Once Bulmers started importing more English apples they removed the protection.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842894#Comment_120842894

I thought that was part of it. And the industry deliberately set out to tackle the “cider party” image, flagons in a field/park/wasteland, and make it seem more up-market.

https://m.independent.ie/business/showerings-peels-away-ciders-old-image-to-expand-beyond-core-market/26130866.html

Was in that one on Abbey Street this afternoon while waiting for someone. Jesus, I don’t care how cheap the drink is; a depressing and soulless kip.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838458#Comment_120838458

..