Unplanned Pregnancy

shopaholic01

Henry9 wrote: »

No, it would be an absolutely marvelous thing.

But to reiterate for the umpteenth time.
1. I'm not talking about irresponsible unprotected sex. I'm taking about the cases when protection is believed to be used.
2. If consequences are to be accepted they should be accepted across the board. Frame this conversation a different way and you know the opinion of a lot of female posters would flip 180 degrees.

What kind of pill was it? I asked in post #42. I know women who became pregnant with an IUD. They had children already and were devastated.

There may be instances where women do this deliberately, but there are cases where women do not want to be pregnant. An unplanned pregnancy is difficult for both men and women. A lot of women also haven't had children by their late thirties simply because they don't want them.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

No, it would be an absolutely marvelous thing.

But to reiterate for the umpteenth time.
1. I'm not talking about irresponsible unprotected sex. I'm taking about the cases when protection is believed to be used.
2. If consequences are to be accepted they should be accepted across the board. Frame this conversation a different way and you know the opinion of a lot of female posters would flip 180 degrees.

In what way are women not accepting consequences? Are we not the ones pregnant?

Jonny Blaze

efb wrote: »

Step up, take responsibility for your own contraception.

Oh I will alright, I'll follow the advice of the women of boards and simply not trust women.

efb

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Oh I will alright, I'll follow the advice of the women of boards and simply not trust women.

I'm not a woman wanna take my advice?

shopaholic01

A question for the men here:

The OP seems to think that women deliberately get pregnant and dupe their partners by pretending to be taking the pill. If this is a widespread phenomenon and men are aware of it, why do they believe these women?

Would they not think ''yeah right'' and use a condom anyway?

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

In what way are women not accepting consequences? Are we not the ones pregnant?

Having a termination because you don't want a baby is avoiding consequences no?
We're all for people accepting the consequences of their actions now right?

Liam McPoyle

The fact of the matter is that there are some unplanned pregnancies that aren't unplanned but as others have said, no contraceptive is 100% garaunteed so if either party, either men or women are worried about a pregnancy happening then its up to them and them alone to be as protected as possible.

It's not rocket science FFS.

Jonny Blaze

efb wrote: »

I'm not a woman wanna take my advice?

What you are has no bearing on my statement.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

Having a termination because you don't want a baby is avoiding consequences no?
We're all for people accepting the consequences of their actions now right?

Have I not previously said that I dont believe in abortion because she just happened to get pregnant?

And calling it a termination instead of abortion makes it no less vile

Henry9

shopaholic01 wrote: »

A question for the men here:

The OP seems to think that women deliberately get pregnant and dupe their partners by pretending to be taking the pill. If this is a widespread phenomenon and men are aware of it, why do they believe these women?

Would they not think ''yeah right'' and use a condom anyway?

Are women not to be trusted? Should I assume they are all untrustworthy?
What if you trust someone and that trust is misplaced?
When a man is questioned by his girlfriend/wife for rubbering up, should he tell her he doesn't trust her?

Jonny Blaze

shopaholic01 wrote: »

A question for the men here:

The OP seems to think that women deliberately get pregnant and dupe their partners by pretending to be taking the pill. If this is a widespread phenomenon and men are aware of it, why do they believe these women?

Would they not think ''yeah right'' and use a condom anyway?

Exactly, women clearly and by their own admission, cannot be trusted, either to follow the directions for use on their contraception, or to honour an agreement made with a sexual partner as to the nature of their chosen method of enforcing contraception.

It's like that line in the movie As Good as it Gets where a woman comes up to Jack Nicholson and asks him "How do you write women so well?" to which he replies "I think of a man, then I take away reason, and accountability."

LittleFox

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

What you are has no bearing on my statement.

Quite simply if you don't want kids use condoms , as a woman take the pill and or use condoms.

Jonny Blaze

LittleFox wrote: »

Quite simply if you don't want kids use condoms , as a woman take the pill and or use condoms.

I do/ will.

Obviously women are not to be trusted.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

Have I not previously said that I dont believe in abortion because she just happened to get pregnant?

You have, but do you think that would be the general consensus if the thread was along the lines 'My girlfriend got accidentally pregnant and I don't want her to have an abortion'?

What if I posted it in the TLL? What if I said abortion shouldn't be allowed except in the case where you could prove your contraception failed?

LittleFox

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I do/ will.

Obviously women are not to be trusted.

Yeah by the same line of thought men are too interested in their own pleasure to bother taking responsibility for their own reproductive risk

hardCopy

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Oh I will alright, I'll follow the advice of the women of boards and simply not trust women.

I'm a bloke, I wear a rubber. You should too if you don't want kids.

shopaholic01

Henry9 wrote: »

Are women not to be trusted? Should I assume they are all untrustworthy?
What if you trust someone and that trust is misplaced?
When a man is questioned by his girlfriend/wife for rubbering up, should he tell her he doesn't trust her?

You seem to think we can't be trusted so you could explain that to your partner and use a condom.

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Exactly, women clearly and by their own admission, cannot be trusted, either to follow the directions for use on their contraception, or to honour an agreement made with a sexual partner as to the nature of their chosen method of enforcing contraception.

It's like that line in the movie As Good as it Gets where a woman comes up to Jack Nicholson and asks him "How do you write women so well?" to which he replies "I think of a man, then I take away reason, and accountability."

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

You have, but do you think that would be the general consensus if the thread was along the lines 'My girlfriend got accidentally pregnant and I don't want her to have an abortion'?

What if I posted it in the TLL? What if I said abortion shouldn't be allowed except in the case where you could prove your contraception failed?

If you said that id agree with you but I cant promiss many others would unfortunately.

B0jangles

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Exactly, women clearly and by their own admission, cannot be trusted, either to follow the directions for use on their contraception, or to honour an agreement made with a sexual partner as to the nature of their chosen method of enforcing contraception.

It's like that line in the movie As Good as it Gets where a woman comes up to Jack Nicholson and asks him "How do you write women so well?" to which he replies "I think of a man, then I take away reason, and accountability."

Because of course each time an individual woman speaks she is in fact, speaking for all women everywhere.

pwurple

Trust doesn't even come in to it. Woman has a dogey burger today... Pill nullified for tomorrows ovulation, sex was yesterday. Sperm live in the body for 4 or 5 days. It's just not good enough on its own as a method of contraception, whether you have trust or not.

People who don't even connect the dots on how babies are made can get 'caught out'. Simple as.

Jonny Blaze

B0jangles wrote: »

Because of course each time an individual woman speaks she is in fact, speaking for all women everywhere.

Ever heard of sarcasm?

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

Trust doesn't even come in to it. Woman has a dogey burger today... Pill nullified for tomorrows ovulation, sex was yesterday. Sperm live in the body for 4 or 5 days. It's just not good enough on its own as a method of contraception, whether you have trust or not.

People who don't even connect the dots on how babies are made can get 'caught out'. Simple as.

But I am specifically talking about the cases where trust does come into it. Some people are so blinded by gender loyalty it seems that can't even countenance the possibility of that happening.

B0jangles

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Ever heard of sarcasm?

Oh yes, I just don't expect it from someone who unironically uses the words" spermjacker" and "fembot"

Jonny Blaze

B0jangles wrote: »

Oh yes, I just don't expect it from someone who unironically uses the words" spermjacker" and "fembot"

I suppose, tone can be hard to judge on this.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

But I am specifically talking about the cases where trust does come into it. Some people are so blinded by gender loyalty it seems that can't even countenance the possibility of that happening.

You don't understand. A woman can be 100% trustworthy, do everything right, not even want to be pregnant. The pill does not work all the time. Read the packaging. Seriously. You have been told repeatedly, but it's just not getting through.

She does not control the universe, her changing hormones and cycle pattern as she ages, whatever virus or bacteria are floating around, or your supersperm. She can reduce the risk a good bit, but never completely eliminate it.

Wear a rubber, or don't have sex. Those would be your best ways of making sure there are no accidents.

Jonny Blaze

pwurple wrote: »

You don't understand. A woman can be 100% trustworthy, do everything right, not even want to be pregnant. The pill does not work all the time. Read the packaging. Seriously. You have been told repeatedly, but it's just not getting through.

She does not control the universe, her changing hormones and cycle pattern as she ages, whatever virus or bacteria are floating around, or your supersperm. She can reduce the risk a good bit, but never completely eliminate it.

Wear a rubber, or don't have sex. Those would be your best ways of making sure there are no accidents.

Are you really trying to imply that this never.. ever happens?

Condom's aren't guaranteed to be 100% effective either incidentally.

Funny though that when a man makes makes use of a method of contraceptive with a lower than 1% chance of failure if used correctly, the results pretty much bear out, but when a woman uses a method of contraceptive with a lower than 1% rate of failure if used correctly that the results don't bear out nearly as closely.

Mad that.

efb

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

What you are has no bearing on my statement.

Why did you quote my statement then?

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

You don't understand. A woman can be 100% trustworthy, do everything right, not even want to be pregnant. The pill does not work all the time. Read the packaging. Seriously. You have been told repeatedly, but it's just not getting through.

I understand that perfectly fine.
I'm not talking about that.

pwurple wrote: »

Wear a rubber, or don't have sex. Those would be your best ways of making sure there are no accidents.

Rubbers are not 100% either.
That leaves 'don't have sex' If that's your genuine conclusion then fine, but like I said earlier, a very pro life argument no?

efb

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Are you really trying to imply that this never.. ever happens?

Condom's aren't guaranteed to be 100% effective either incidentally.

Funny though that when a man makes makes use of a method of contraceptive with a lower than 1% chance of failure if used correctly, the results pretty much bear out, but when a woman uses a method of contraceptive with a lower than 1% rate of failure if used correctly that the results don't bear out nearly as closely.

Mad that.

Do you know how the pill works? And it's reasons for failure?

Jonny Blaze

efb wrote: »

Why did you quote my statement then?

Because it neatly summarised the point I was trying to refer to in my own statement.

PucaMama

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Are you really trying to imply that this never.. ever happens?

Condom's aren't guaranteed to be 100% effective either incidentally.

Funny though that when a man makes makes use of a method of contraceptive with a lower than 1% chance of failure if used correctly, the results pretty much bear out, but when a woman uses a method of contraceptive with a lower than 1% rate of failure if used correctly that the results don't bear out nearly as closely.

Mad that.

Probably because condoms arent affected by hormones.

efb

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Because it neatly summarised the point I was trying to refer to in my own statement.

But as I am not a woman it made the statement redundant when quoting me

pwurple

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Are you really trying to imply that this never.. ever happens?

Condom's aren't guaranteed to be 100% effective either incidentally.

No, i'm sure there are some women who want babies and are able to find men with zero knowledge of how their own bodies work. From this thread it doesn't even sound like it would be that hard to do.

But believe me I have more allegience to my 4 younger brothers than some random women I never met. I have told them the exact same thing (before they were married and wanted kids). Protect yourself and take responsibility for your half of the DNA in a baby. If you don't want egg and sperm having a happy dance, then don't ever let them meet. I have bought plenty of condoms in my time.

Yes of course I know condoms aren't 100%, no method is. That's why you need to use Multiple methods as backup for eachother. So if the condom fails, the pill is hopefully working, and if the pill fails, hopefully the condom works.

Were some guys not actually told this before at any point?

johnnyskeleton

Henry9 wrote: »

But isn't that an appalling thing to do to a man? Making someone a father against his wishes just because time is running out, is an incredibly selfish thing to do.
From being involved with women that age, some of them are obsessed with having a baby, does that give them the right to put a guy on the hook for the next 20+ years to satisfy that ambition?

If he consentually had unprotected sex, he can hardly claim surprise if it results in a child. I mean he could always say no, right?

Jonny Blaze

pwurple wrote: »

No, i'm sure there are some women who want babies and are able to find men with zero knowledge of how their own bodies work. From this thread it doesn't even sound like it would be that hard to do.

But believe me I have more allegience to my 4 younger brothers than some random women I never met. I have told them the exact same thing (before they were married and wanted kids). Protect yourself and take responsibility for your half of the DNA in a baby. If you don't want egg and sperm having a happy dance, then don't ever let them meet. I have bought plenty of condoms in my time.

Yes of course I know condoms aren't 100%, no method is. That's why you need to use Multiple methods as backup for eachother. So if the condom fails, the pill is hopefully working, and if the pill fails, hopefully the condom works.

Were some guys not actually told this before at any point?

I wholeheartedly agree!

I don't mind using condoms in the slightest and I always do. The peace of mind is worth the minor sacrifice of sensation, and there are also plenty of other more safe and pleasurable ways of enjoying yourself (that involve less effort too )

What annoys me is the attitude some women take that is pretty much:

"It's not our fault for screwing you over, It's your fault for getting screwed over by us."

And yes, before you ask I'm specifically talking about instances where deception is involved on the woman's part as that is the topic this thread is dealing with.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

Rubbers are not 100% either.
That leaves 'don't have sex' If that's your genuine conclusion then fine, but like I said earlier, a very pro life argument no?

I have said use both the pill and condoms together. if you don't want to use contraception, then don't have sex unless you understand there may be a pregnancy.

I really don't see how you can conclude that is either pro-life, or pro-choice? It's just pro contraception!

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

No, i'm sure there are some women who want babies and are able to find men with zero knowledge of how their own bodies work. From this thread it doesn't even sound like it would be that hard to do.

It's like you don't read any replies, there's nothing wrong with my knowledge on the subject.
You've just decided the stupid men don't understand the pill, and just keep repeating it.
I educated myself on the subject long ago. I've had two girlfriends with endo and I knew more about it than the two of them put together.

I made my decision on the subject long ago, and I've turned down plenty of fun and games as a result. I'm no Brad Pitt but in my age group I'm unmarried with no kids, healthy and solvent.
Doesn't sound like much when you're in your twenties but closing in on 40 the situation changes drastically.
Like I said earlier the difference in attitude between a 25 year old and 35 year old woman on these matters is sometimes striking.

It seems that some posters can't get their heads around the fact that a woman would do such a thing.

pwurple

And yes, before you ask I'm specifically talking about instances where deception is involved on the woman's part as that is the topic this thread is dealing with.

But my point is simply that a woman can't actually impregnate herself. Any 'deception' can only ever succeed if a man is not using contraception himself.

So use it. End of problem.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

I have said use both the pill and condoms together. if you don't want to use contraception, then don't have sex unless you understand there may be a pregnancy.

I really don't see how you can conclude that is either pro-life, or pro-choice? It's just pro contraception!

Because both fail. So logically it boils down do 'don't have sex' if you don't want to have children. Like I said, fine, but it's the same argument the anti contraception lobby and the anti abortion lobby have used since forever.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

But my point is simply that a woman can't actually impregnate herself. Any 'deception' can only ever succeed if a man is not using contraception himself.

So use it. End of problem.

So we should all act as if the women in our lives are trying to deceive us?

Jonny Blaze

pwurple wrote: »

But my point is simply that a woman can't actually impregnate herself. Any 'deception' can only ever succeed if a man is not using contraception himself.

So use it. End of problem.

I agree as I said! I subscribe to that belief.

But it doesn't really have anything to do with the topic of the thread though does it?

I was under the impression that the thread was about cases where both parties have decided that using one method contraceptive is the way they are going to handle the issue, for whatever reason, and that it so happens that they have decided to use the pill, and that, having that assumption in place, the woman deceives her partner and consciously attempts to become pregnant by sabotaging the contraceptive, thereby leading to a pregnancy that was not desired on the part of the man, and how that is a horrible thing to do.

Am I wrong OP? Would appreciate the clarification.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

So we should all act as if the women in our lives are trying to deceive us?

:rolleyes:
Do you live in some sort of utopia full of unimpregnable virgins or something? A condom should be the norm. Wearing a condom isn't some kind of statement about your girlfriend being a lying cow. It should be your default.


You should act like you know how the pill works and doesn't work.

You should act like you know what STIs are.

You should act like you know what sperm does when it meets an egg.

You should take responsibility for your own half of the baby-making equation.

And if any woman ever starts acting all hurt and 'untrusted' because you suggest you wear a condom for sex, I would run a fecking mile, screaming all the way.

Galwayguy35

So if a woman becomes pregnant and doesn't want to keep the baby but the man does we are told it's her body and her choice.

Ok fair enough I think we can all agree on that.

But if she finds she is pregnant and wants to keep the baby but the man doesn't want to be a Daddy then he is forced to pay child support for the next 18 years, in cases like this the woman should look after the kid herself if she wants it.

And we know contraception is not 100% safe so the situations I would be talking about would be when both parties were using them.

Galwayguy35

pwurple wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Do you live in some sort of utopia full of unimpregnable virgins or something? A condom should be the norm. Wearing a condom isn't some kind of statement about your girlfriend being a lying cow. It should be your default.


You should act like you know how the pill works and doesn't work.

You should act like you know what STIs are.

You should act like you know what sperm does when it meets an egg.

You should take responsibility for your own half of the baby-making equation.

And if any woman ever starts acting all hurt and 'untrusted' because you suggest you wear a condom for sex, I would run a fecking mile, screaming all the way.

Condoms break, it's happened to me and I'm sure other men on here as well.

pwurple

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Condoms break, it's happened to me and I'm sure other men on here as well.

Which is why you also use the pill. Backup my man.

When a condom breaks it is pretty obvious as well. Trip out for the morning after pill first thing in the morning.

Henry9

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

I was under the impression that the thread was about cases where both parties have decided that using one method contraceptive is the way they are going to handle the issue, for whatever reason, and that it so happens that they have decided to use the pill, and that, having that assumption in place, the woman deceives her partner and consciously attempts to become pregnant by sabotaging the contraceptive, thereby leading to a pregnancy that was not desired on the part of the man, and how that is a horrible thing to do.

Am I wrong OP? Would appreciate the clarification.

To be honest I thought that was clear, I've clarified it a few times now. It's almost like some posters would rather the thread was about something else so that they can deliver condescending lectures on what happens when a sperm meets an egg.

What I do find noticeable is when the issue in framed in a way that some posters interpret as a man trying to skip out on his responsibilities, it then becomes a black and white issue of sex---> babies. We must all accept the consequences of our actions.

Post the same issue slightly differently in TLL and I'd wager you won't find the majority of posters of the opinion that consequences of sex have to be accepted. There will always be mitigating circumstances in those cases. You shouldn't have to pay for the rest of your life for one mistake, there's always options.

Odd that.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

Which is why you also use the pill. Backup my man.

When a condom breaks it is pretty obvious as well. Trip out for the morning after pill first thing in the morning.

A condom doesn't have to break to lead to pregnancy.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

To be honest I thought that was clear, I've clarified it a few times now. It's almost like some posters would rather the thread was about something else so that they can deliver condescending lectures on what happens when a sperm meets an egg. Odd that.

Dude, the one and only point i have made repeatedly is that the very ASSUMPTION that the pill is going to be the only method of contraception when you don't want children under any circumstances, is so mindblowingly stupid I can't fathom it.

I'll leave you to assuming all women are out to get their uteruses on you.

pwurple

Henry9 wrote: »

A condom doesn't have to break to lead to pregnancy.

Clue. Sex leads to pregnancy.

Henry9

pwurple wrote: »

I'll leave you to assuming all women are out to get their uteruses on you.

And I'll leave you to your straw manning and hyperbole.