Unplanned Pregnancy

Jonny Blaze

pwurple wrote: »

Dude, the one and only point i have made repeatedly is that the very ASSUMPTION that the pill is going to be the only method of contraception when you don't want children under any circumstances, is so mindblowingly stupid I can't fathom it.

I'll leave you to assuming all women are out to get their uteruses on you.

You really just can't see the difference can you?

Jonny Blaze

And frankly, the opinion here seems to be based on the unreliability of the pill, which I find a bit of a stretch in any case.

From irishhealth.ie:

How effective is the combined pill?

Taken correctly, the combined pill is a very reliable contraceptive with a failure rate of less than one pregnancy per 100 woman-years. This means that less than one pregnancy will occur among 100 women using this method for a year. However, this presumes that the pill is taken correctly. If the pill is forgotten then the woman is not adequately protected and could become pregnant. In actual use, the failure rate is likely to be between two and three pregnancies per 100 woman-years.

from wikipedia:

Effectiveness

The effectiveness of COCPs, as of most forms of contraception, can be assessed in two ways. Perfect use or method effectiveness rates only include people who take the pills consistently and correctly. Actual use, or typical use effectiveness rates are of all COCP users, including those who take the pills incorrectly, inconsistently, or both. Rates are generally presented for the first year of use.[6] Most commonly the Pearl Index is used to calculate effectiveness rates, but some studies use decrement tables.[20]

The typical use pregnancy rate among COCP users varies depending on the population being studied, ranging from 2-8% per year. The perfect use pregnancy rate of COCPs is 0.3% per year.[6]

Several factors account for typical use effectiveness being lower than perfect use effectiveness:

mistakes on the part of those providing instructions on how to use the method
mistakes on the part of the user
conscious user non-compliance with instructions.

For instance, someone using oral forms of hormonal birth control might be given incorrect information by a health care provider as to the frequency of intake, or by mistake not take the pill one day, or simply not go to the pharmacy on time to renew the prescription.

COCPs provide effective contraception from the very first pill if started within five days of the beginning of the menstrual cycle (within five days of the first day of menstruation). If started at any other time in the menstrual cycle, COCPs provide effective contraception only after 7 consecutive days use of active pills, so a backup method of contraception must be used until active pills have been taken for 7 consecutive days. COCPs should be taken at approximately the same time every day.

from the independent:

Mood swings, diminished libido, and blood clots don't affect the majority of women on hormonal contraceptives, but despite more than 50 years of the Pill's development, there are still downsides to an otherwise highly effective medication.

from common sense:

See above.

Henry9

So if I'm sleeping with a girl who says she's on the pill, but she isn't, or neglects to take it, it's my fault for not wearing a condom right?

What if I'm sleeping with a girl who's not on the pill and I put on a condom, but when I take it out I tear it and don't tell her but carry on regardless?
Or I deliberately prick a hole in it with a pin?

If she gets pregnant is it her fault for not also being on the pill?

awec

This post has been deleted.

Lisha

Henry9 wrote: »

So we should all act as if the women in our lives are trying to deceive us?

No but surely it makes sense to act as if any one method of contraception can and does fail.

efb

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So if a woman becomes pregnant and doesn't want to keep the baby but the man does we are told it's her body and her choice.

Ok fair enough I think we can all agree on that.

But if she finds she is pregnant and wants to keep the baby but the man doesn't want to be a Daddy then he is forced to pay child support for the next 18 years, in cases like this the woman should look after the kid herself if she wants it.

And we know contraception is not 100% safe so the situations I would be talking about would be when both parties were using them.

If a man could take a baby to term then we would have a true comparison

Rev Hellfire

Henry9 wrote: »

So we should all act as if the women in our lives are trying to deceive us?

If you're not intending to have children at this particular point in your life then that most definitely this is the default position to take. Lets face it to some women you're no more than a source of genetic material and a walking wallet to cover their parenting expenses.

Accidents happen with condoms but at least you'll be stacking the odds in your favour. Better safe than sorry

Henry9

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

If you're not intending to have children at this particular point in your life then that most definitely this is the default position to take. Lets face it to some women you're no more than a source of genetic material and a walking wallet to cover their parenting expenses.

Accidents happen with condoms but at least you'll be stacking the odds in your favour. Better safe than sorry

I agree.
I'm not surprised by this, I know people can rationalise anything themselves when they need to.
It's the reluctance to acknowledge that it happens, and quite often in my opinion.

PucaMama

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

If you're not intending to have children at this particular point in your life then that most definitely this is the default position to take. Lets face it to some women you're no more than a source of genetic material and a walking wallet to cover their parenting expenses.

Accidents happen with condoms but at least you'll be stacking the odds in your favour. Better safe than sorry

Why have you such a distrust of women?

Rev Hellfire

As I said its some women, but better to err on the side of caution.
The reasons are explained in the post.

PucaMama

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

As I said its some women, but better to err on the side of caution.
The reasons are explained in the post.

Can I ban all men from my children when I have them in case they are pedophiles cus some men are. As I said its some men but better err on the side of caution.

Rev Hellfire

PucaMama wrote: »

Can I ban all men from my children when I have them in case they are pedophiles cus some men are. As I said its some men but better err on the side of caution.

I'm not sure how that is the same. I'm not suggesting anything which prohibits women from doing anything.

PucaMama

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I'm not sure how that is the same. I'm not suggesting anything which prohibits women from doing anything.

You are saying all women should be treated with distrust because of the actions of some.

Rev Hellfire

PucaMama wrote: »

You are saying all women should be treated with distrust because of the actions of some.

Yes and how exactly does a male deciding that he prefers to take control of his own reproductive rights by using a condom in any way effect a woman.

Some people have STDs, so we err on the side of caution by assuming that all prospective partners have them as well. Same deal.

efb

Take some personal responsibility, if YOU don't want a child, YOU wear a condom

PucaMama

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Yes and how exactly does a male deciding that he prefers to take control of his own reproductive rights by using a condom in any way effect a woman.

Some people have STDs, so we err on the side of caution by assuming that all prospective partners have them as well. Same deal.

Its great that people take responsibility but thats not the way it was said in your post. You talked about deceit by women and basically said you cant trust us not to get pregnant.

efb

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Condoms break, it's happened to me and I'm sure other men on here as well.

How many times? What did you do afterwards?

Mister R

A friend of a friend's is 23 and I heard he has recently gotten some 30 year old pregnant, he has just graduated college so his first pay check will involve child support on top of rent, utilities etc. Which I find rather depressing but I guess that is what is in store for him. In that case he was an idiot for not using a condom for some one night stand so its no really comparable with being "caught" but on the other hand she didn't rush to Boots for the morning after pill the next day either.

When it comes to relationships contraception is definitely a trust thing, I mean its easy to say guys are stupid for letting the woman mange it but if she suggests this and they are a couple then I can see why a guy would trust her. On the other hand if he really did want to be super certain he'd insist on managing it himself so it swings both ways.

I have noticed more and more women in the 30-40 age bracket "accidentally" getting pregnant to either one night stands or guys they know about 10 minutes. Is this actually accidental, I'd imagine some of it is however with the stigma of single mothers diminishing I reckon quite a few of these women are deliberately getting pregnant for their own selfish reasons. I think it's highly irresponsible of them because not only are they not considering the fathers in the process they also don't seem to care about the child either. I think some women assume single parenting works out like the Gilmore Girls but that is a fluffy US soap and of course some instances work out like that but a lot of others don't.

I actually read an article a while back about how this is becoming more common, women deliberately seeking men just to get pregnant, in some cases they don't inform the guy and in other do even if a one night stand. One quote irked me when a woman said "The men always love the child in the end so what harm can it do", I was so annoyed she could be so selfish and then assume "well it all works out anyway". Sure people adapt to undesirable situations but seeking to trap someone is such a position makes you a bad person in my eyes.

I guess when hooking up with women in the "baby seeking" age group its best to be extra vigilant guys. Not to say it doesn't happen with women in their 20s but all the cases I've heard of recently have been in the 30-40 age group, whereas girls I know in their 20s kill themselves to get the morning after pill if they feel they could be in a compromising position.

Sorry for the rant.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

You are saying all women should be treated with distrust because of the actions of some.

In fairness, that's the advice of the female posters on this thread too.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

In fairness, that's the advice of the female posters on this thread too.

The advice is they should use contraception if they are so worried. It is in no way agreeing that women are not to be trusted. Maybe I wasnt clear enough.

Rev Hellfire

PucaMama wrote: »

You talked about deceit by women and basically said you cant trust us not to get pregnant.

As I said before by some women.
I don't see anything wrong with men taking that risk on-board and factoring it in when dealing with women. Especially in encounters of a casual nature or those in the initial stages of a relationship.

Personally I've no problem taking an action which effects no-one else in any negative way, but that protects me from sponsoring someone else's lifestyle choice.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

The advice is they should use contraception if they are so worried. It is in no way agreeing that women are not to be trusted. Maybe I wasnt clear enough.

The thread is about those cases where trust is given but it turns out to have been unwarranted.
The advice given (not necessarily by you, but by plenty of others) was that if you rubber up then you can't be trapped.

So a chap posts that's exactly what he does, but because this is based on a cynical view of some women he's in the wrong too?

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

The thread is about those cases where trust is given but it turns out to have been unwarranted.
The advice given (not necessarily by you, but by plenty of others) was that if you rubber up then you can't be trapped.

So a chap posts that's exactly what he does, but because this is based on a cynical view of some women he's in the wrong too?

I asked about his cynical view

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

I asked about his cynical view

Do you think what we are talking about never happens?

Rev Hellfire

PucaMama wrote: »

I asked about his cynical view

I prefer the term pragmatic.
But I think we've covered it at this stage.

Thoie

Mister R wrote: »

I guess when hooking up with women in the "baby seeking" age group its best to be extra vigilant guys.

As a woman in that "baby seeking age group" (who most definitely doesn't want a baby), I wish all guys would be extra vigilant all the time. How many guys here have ever said "Aw, do I have to wear a condom, sure are you not on the pill?"

I've found it's easier not to let guys know that you are already using some form of contraception, because there are enough out there that immediately assume that absolves them of all responsibility if anything goes wrong.

Obviously once you're in a long term, committed relationship, it's something both people should discuss. Decide in advance if getting pregnant would be the end of the world or not. If it would, belt and braces. If you'd both rather not get pregnant just yet but would manage if it happened, then you can think of relying on just one method.

Galwayguy35

efb wrote: »

How many times? What did you do afterwards?

Twice, I didn't do anything, what was I supposed to do?

In both cases the women went for the morning after pill.

efb

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Twice, I didn't do anything, what was I supposed to do?

In both cases the women went for the morning after pill.

Check you are putting it on correctly, using correct lubricant and and perhaps getting stronger condoms. Durex Extra Safe I'd recommend if you find them breaking

Galwayguy35

efb wrote: »

Check you are putting it on correctly, using correct lubricant and and perhaps getting stronger condoms. Durex Extra Safe I'd recommend if you find them breaking

I was referring to the specific question you asked which is what did I do afterwards.

Now I have no idea if you're male or female but if you are male then you will know if a condom breaks there isn't a lot a fella can do after the event.

efb

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I was referring to the specific question you asked which is what did I do afterwards.

Now I have no idea if you're male or female but if you are male then you will know if a condom breaks there isn't a lot a fella can do after the event.

That's what you do to limit the chance of reoccurrence. You seemed to have the rest sorted tbf

A_Sober_Paddy

Someone mentioned abortion...if women can get rid of an unwanted pregnancy, there is a genuine argument for men being able to opt out of paying support

PucaMama

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Someone mentioned abortion...if women can get rid of an unwanted pregnancy, there is a genuine argument for men being able to opt out of paying support

Since abortion on demand is unavailable in Ireland that shouldn't be an issue.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

Do you think what we are talking about never happens?

Not half as much as you think it does

A_Sober_Paddy

PucaMama wrote: »

Since abortion on demand is unavailable in Ireland that shouldn't be an issue.

Not yet...but it will soon follow

A_Sober_Paddy

PucaMama wrote: »

Since abortion on demand is unavailable in Ireland that shouldn't be an issue.

Not yet...but it will soon follow

PucaMama

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Not yet...but it will soon follow

With any luck it wont.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

Not half as much as you think it does

How do you know how much I think it happens?
And how do you know it happens <50% of that?
At least we've got to the point where it's being acknowledged it happens at all.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

How do you know how much I think it happens?
And how do you know it happens <50% of that?
At least we've got to the point where it's being acknowledged it happens at all.

How do you know yourself how often it happens?

Mister R

The fact it happens at all is a reason to be precautions. For example planes have life jackets but how often does a plane actually crash into water. Not a lot but precautions are still necessary regardless of the limited risk.

PucaMama

Mister R wrote: »

The fact it happens at all is a reason to be precautions. For example planes have life jackets but how often does a plane actually crash into water. Not a lot but precautions are still necessary regardless of the limited risk.

A plane having life jackets is a great thing buts its not the same as saying all women are deceitful.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

A plane having life jackets is a great thing buts its not the same as saying all women are deceitful.

Christ on a bike. Do you just read what you want to read?

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

Christ on a bike. Do you just read what you want to read?

I just resent this idea that women are to blame for unplanned pregnancy.

Henry9

PucaMama wrote: »

I just resent this idea that women are to blame for unplanned pregnancy.

What idea? The only one saying that is you.

PucaMama

Henry9 wrote: »

What idea? The only one saying that is you.

No read the thread again

Rev Hellfire

PucaMama wrote: »

No read the thread again

Perhaps you'll supply a quote as a reference.

PucaMama

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Perhaps you'll supply a quote as a reference.

How is this thread not blaming women? Ye certainly are not blaming men for any part of it.

Rev Hellfire

PucaMama wrote: »

I just resent this idea that women are to blame for unplanned pregnancy.

You explicitly stated people have blamed women for unplanned pregnancies, where has it been stated?

People have been arguing the exact opposite, that men should take steps themselves to ensure unplanned pregnancies do not occur.

Pat Mustard

Funny thread.

"Thirtysomething year old succubi lure gormless dupes into unplanned fatherhood."

Devilish...

But I prefer Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

A couple of muppets have unprotected sex and then sit around scratching their heads, wondering what the hell happened. Didn't wear a condom is what happened.

Henry9

The Mustard wrote: »

Funny thread.

"Thirtysomething year old succubi lure gormless dupes into unplanned fatherhood."

Devilish...

But I prefer Hanlon's Razor:


A couple of muppets have unprotected sex and then sit around scratching their heads, wondering what the hell happened. Didn't wear a condom is what happened.

It might be funny, but you clearly didn't read it.