Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

intheclouds

ManOfMystery wrote: »

We've also seen so far that Ford has a certain degree of sentimentality and surrounds himself with robotic facsimiles of people (family) who were important in his life. He seems to speak with fondness and regret when talking about Arnold so it's entirely plausible that he created Bernard in Arnold's image.

To what end though?

Im not seeing why he would "reincarnate" Arnold in a body that looks the same with a different name.

Hyzepher

Now that we know Bernard is a host who is also a dept head, and presumably the best at his job, then the question is why do they need human employees at all? Unless Bernard is only a host because the real Bernard challenged Ford at some point and he replaced him and is secretly taking back control.

In fact, Bernard was such a convincing host that the question regarding hosts becoming sentient has been solved. They are now merely constrained from realizing full awareness. If this is true then there is no reason why Ford himself could not be a host - having downloaded his own conscience at some moment before death years ago.

The secret everyone could be searching for is one of immortality.

Unearthly

This show looks to be a big hit. When will it get its own boards forum

ManOfMystery

intheclouds wrote: »

To what end though?

Im not seeing why he would "reincarnate" Arnold in a body that looks the same with a different name.

Why 'reincarnate' members of his family? We don't know precisely why, but he did it anyhow. He's sentimental. Perhaps as he becomes more isolated and at odds with the board, he surrounds himself with hosts who he recognises as a kind of mental comfort blanket.

The name change is so he can reference the previous Arnold without triggering any kind of recognition.

Hyzepher wrote: »

Now that we know Bernard is a host who is also a dept head, and presumably the best at his job, then the question is why do they need human employees at all? Unless Bernard is only a host because the real Bernard challenged Ford at some point and he replaced him and is secretly taking back control.

In fact, Bernard was such a convincing host that the question regarding hosts becoming sentient has been solved. They are now merely constrained from realizing full awareness. If this is true then there is no reason why Ford himself could not be a host - having downloaded his own conscience at some moment before death years ago.

The secret everyone could be searching for is one of immortality.

Bingo. I don't think Ford is a host, but I do think he's slowly introducing hosts into the staff at the facility to ensure it is run exactly how he wants. And he's using the existing hosts to record their mannerisms and behavioural patterns to make that process more fluid.

Remember when Bernard remarked on how fascinating it was when Theresa's brow furrowed in a certain way if she was angry? Now that we know he's a host and every action of his has been programmed, and doesn't happen by chance, we must know that he was intentionally analysing her facial movements. To what end?

tommy2bad

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Why 'reincarnate' members of his family? We don't know precisely why, but he did it anyhow. He's sentimental. Perhaps as he becomes more isolated and at odds with the board, he surrounds himself with hosts who he recognises as a kind of mental comfort blanket.

I think Ford told Bernard it was Arnold created the robot family, so it wasn't Ford who created them. He also remarked a great artist hide something of himself in his creation. which made me wonder if he was lying about Arnold creating them or beginning to wonder if Arnold wasn't completely dealt with.

conorhal

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think Ford told Bernard it was Arnold created the robot family, so it wasn't Ford who created them. He also remarked a great artist hide something of himself in his creation. which made me wonder if he was lying about Arnold creating them or beginning to wonder if Arnold wasn't completely dealt with.

That made me wonder what else Arnold created. Could the man in black in fact be a double bluff? He's not a guest after all but a sentient host created by Arnold? Perhaps an immortal version of Arnold himself that returns to the park to continue his obsessive quest to understand sentience in the guise of a guest who can proceed unchallenged?

FunLover18

conorhal wrote:

That made me wonder what else Arnold created. Could the man in black in fact be a double bluff? He's not a guest after all but a sentient host created by Arnold? Perhaps an immortal version of Arnold himself that returns to the park to continue his obsessive quest to understand sentience in the guise of a guest who can proceed unchallenged?

What's the point of him then, his only interaction is with hosts, I don't see how guests would benefit from his narrative.

Surreptitious

Bernard's type sheet was in the same pile of facsimiles of the first prototypes including Dolores. Therefore Arnold was still alive when these first androids were being introduced. Bernard is not Arnold. There is more of a chance that the MIB has some kind of hidden secret that he's been in the park for over thirty years therefore having some kind of relationship maybe with Arnold.

Effects

Surreptitious wrote: »

Bernard's type sheet was in the same pile of facsimiles of the first prototypes including Dolores. Therefore Arnold was still alive when these first androids were being introduced. Bernard is not Arnold.

There's no reason why he wouldn't have created a host of himself. He created hosts of Fords family after all.

corkie

[Ep 8 Spoilers] For everyone that missed it, these are all the same host! <<<< Reddit post


Another good episode and gives more weight to the multiple time lines theory!

We see

* More of Maeve's encounter of the MIB
* Dolores remembering the very early days of the park.

Effects

Plus host's memories coming back even when Ford thinks he's erased them!

Foxtrol

So are we thinking that she is remembering the early days of the park in those scenes, William (/possibly MiB) and Delores are in some in-between period, and MiB is in current time? At some point this episode they mentioned that Ford ‘dug up a town’ for his new narrative so it could be that he’s dug up the town that Delores remembered, the town that was buried up to the steeple when Ford stood beside it with young Ford earlier in the season and we see it in the same state with Delores and William. It will be interesting if MiB is brought to the town in the current period, which will pretty much confirm at least three timelines.

Where there any nuggets in MiB’s back story that point to him being William? The only thing is possibly how William has already seemed to become pretty cold blooded with wanting to, and possibly following through on, killing the injured kid. Something against it is that if he is with Delores in the past and she is pushing towards it at that stage, why does it take him 30 years to go do the maze quest again?

brevity

Anthony Hopkins is so menacing. He is a real presence. Credit to the actor playing Bernard though he is not in his shadow at all.

Really good episode - the Dolores scenes werent as painful as previous episodes.

corkie

Foxtrol wrote: »

Something against it is that if he is with Delores in the past and she is pushing towards it at that stage, why does it take him 30 years to go do the maze quest again?

I have not bought into the theory William=MiB. So will be presently surprised if it is true.

We did hear him say that is wife died over a year ago, which sparked his return to the Park and his attack on Meave in her prior character. Also the Maze was revealed to him at that point.

"¡ǝɯ oʇ ɟןǝs ʇı pǝןɐǝʌǝɹ ǝzɐɯ ǝɥʇ uǝɥʍ sı ʇɐɥʇ"

Spoilers: - 'Westworld' finally answered a lot of questions fans have about one of the show's most mysterious characters

Foxtrol

corkie wrote: »

I have not bought into the theory William=MiB. So will be presently surprised if it is true.

We did hear him say that is wife died over a year ago, which sparked his return to the Park and his attack on Meave in her prior character. Also the Maze was revealed to him at that point.

"¡ǝɯ oʇ ɟןǝs ʇı pǝןɐǝʌǝɹ ǝzɐɯ ǝɥʇ uǝɥʍ sı ʇɐɥʇ"

I’m more so leaning against the theory as well.

We don’t know what will happen with Delores and William but I would presume that it should be noteworthy enough event that it would be something that William would want to look into soon after a return to the park (maybe not the first thing but before he completed everything else in the park like MiB claims to have done).

The timeline of the town burying is interesting. It doesn’t seem like there would be enough time for there to be some natural reason for this (especially if the MiB is William theory to hold, given that it would need to be a few years after Delores’ memory) so there must have been some big event that caused it. Could this have something to do with the issue that they mentioned that happened in the park in the past or possibly even the death of Arnold?

Thargor

Do people not remember what the MiB likes to repeatedly do to Dolores in the barn? I really dont see William turning into that from where he is with her now, its actually a really stupid theory for this reason imo.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

corkie

Thargor wrote: »

Do people not remember what the MiB likes to repeatedly do to Dolores in the barn? I really dont see William turning into that from where he is with her now, its actually a really stupid theory for this reason imo.

What does he do to her? We never actually seen it, so just left to imagine.

Turtwig

Thargor wrote: »

Do people not remember what the MiB likes to repeatedly do to Dolores in the barn? I really dont see William turning into that from where he is with her now, its actually a really stupid theory for this reason imo.

Well that's the thing about humanity. Many of its monsters were once decent folk who you'd never have envisioned doing the despicable thing they did.

Speaking of humanity, does anything else think Ford is a host who was created by Arnold and rebelled? (Or Vice versa). Ford has already talked about humans from the third perspective and his level of detachment and descriptions of human behaviour suggest he is not human. Though that could simply be because he is as Theresa described a monster.

It looks like Dolores committed the same massacre "Wyatt" does.

Thargor

corkie wrote: »

What does he do to her? We never actually seen it, so just left to imagine.

Why are you even bothering arguing this? They're not discussing wallpaper patterns.

Foxtrol

Thargor wrote: »

Do people not remember what the MiB likes to repeatedly do to Dolores in the barn? I really dont see William turning into that from where he is with her now, its actually a really stupid theory for this reason imo.

I don’t think this is the strongest case against the theory as we have seen William become darker the more time he spends in the park. To firing weapons and killing people attacking them, to cheating on his fiancé, to most recently wanting to, and likely following through on, killing a defenseless teenager. I could easily see a situation where Delores crosses him or her memory gets wiped and he no longer sees her in the same light as we see them together now. Also, aside from not knowing for sure what happened in the barn, he admitted in this episode that he crossed a line in the park when he returned that he never thought he could do so he’s likely now acting in a totally different way than he did when he made his first trip to the park 30 years ago (whether as William or someone else).

Foxtrol

If this multi-timeline theory is true then what is Delores doing in the current timeline? From the premiere we see her kill the fly so she seems to going against protocols but is now just hanging around back at the ranch.

I think I’ll wait until after the last two episodes and binge watch the season again with the extra knowledge of what we’ve learnt during the season. I’m sure I’ve missed loads.

RobbingBandit

I thought William seen Maeve in the bar in his first episode how could he(in the MIB role) 30+ years later turn her into the madame, that is a plot hole if the theory is accurate.

RobbingBandit

MIB has met Ford while with Teddy on this current quest. Ford would have called him Arnold if that is who he really is. I can't remember if Ford did use a name but MIB called Ford Robert iirc.

corkie

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I thought William seen Maeve in the bar in his first episode how could he(in the MIB role) 30+ years later turn her into the madame, that is a plot hole if the theory is accurate.

He doesn't see her there. There is a different character playing that role in that episode.




See the women next to Clementine above.

RobbingBandit

I think MIB might be Williams potential father in law.

oleras

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I think MIB might be Williams potential father in law.

Wouldn't he have had a son and daughter then ?

RobbingBandit

Yup, back to the drawing board I go.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

cumulonimbus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think he is pretending to be a Hemsworth.:p