Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

Foxtrol

FunLover18 wrote: »

I'm still enjoying the show but the scene where Maeve helps the bandits steal the safe was ridiculous. We saw this scene play out previously and we saw how many people in HQ were monitoring it (the writer was raging no one got to hear the speech), here a Sheriff walks away and two marshals shoot each other at the command of another host, how does this not raise massive red flags?

It’s not ridiculous, they don’t know it’s possible for a host to change the code of another host so they aren’t looking for that. It’s like a zoo keeper not worrying that a lion can grow wings and fly out of their enclosure. They realise that Maeve is malfunctioning when she kills the new ‘working girl’ (a few seconds after the marshals incident) and they send other hosts to stop her. She talks her way by those hosts and I expect there will be big ramifications for this in the next episode.

FunLover18

Foxtrol wrote:

It’s not ridiculous, they don’t know it’s possible for a host to change the code of another host so they aren’t looking for that. It’s like a zoo keeper not worrying that a lion can grow wings and fly out of their enclosure. They realise that Maeve is malfunctioning when she kills the new ‘working girl’ (a few seconds after the marshals incident) and they send other hosts to stop her. She talks her way by those hosts and I expect there will be big ramifications for this in the next episode.

We saw in the episode when they were watching from HQ how good the audio was, they should be able to hear Maeve's instructions and even if they can't, that level of malfunctioning where it only affects the three people who can stop the robbery is too much of a coincidence, especially when two of them turn on each other at exactly the same moment.

Turtwig

people seem to be assuming their jobs were the only things the techs were fearful of. I think it's been hinted more than once that Delos are anything but an ethical group.

mewso

You can do as many mental gymnastics as you like to explain it away but the Maeve/Techs dynamic is completely ridiculous. The idea that as a tech you can't just turn a host off and list it for replacing and so on. A million different ways out of a situation other than helping them to change their personality or escape. I'm enjoying the show but ridiculous is ridiculous.

Foxtrol

FunLover18 wrote: »

We saw in the episode when they were watching from HQ how good the audio was, they should be able to hear Maeve's instructions and even if they can't, that level of malfunctioning where it only affects the three people who can stop the robbery is too much of a coincidence, especially when two of them turn on each other at exactly the same moment.

She isn’t supposed to be an active part of the scene so why would they be listening to what she says? Otherwise they’d need a member of staff listening to every single host in the park 24/7.

They sent hosts to stop her seconds after the Marshals take each other out. For the show narrative they clearly wanted to show what her new powers were, with the sheriff and the marshals, but also and that her memories are still a problem for her. It all happened over the space of about a minute so I think the audience should be able to suspend disbelief for that short period. If it makes you feel better you can imagine confusion in the control room when the sheriff walked away and the marshals shot each other which lasted for that minute before they worked out what a potential cause could be and took action.

FunLover18

Foxtrol wrote:

She isn’t supposed to be an active part of the scene so why would they be listening to what she says? Otherwise they’d need a member of staff listening to every single host in the park 24/7.

Then why does she walk up to the sheriff and then to the marshals, even more reason that this behaviour should cause suspicion, not to mention that the amount of times she's in for repairs is surely logged and we see how quickly the techs who have been working on her can access her key commands through their tablet. There's a significant lack of consistency with regard to how well monitored the park actually is.

Foxtrol wrote:

They sent hosts to stop her seconds after the Marshals take each other out. For the show narrative they clearly wanted to show what her new powers were, with the sheriff and the marshals, but also and that her memories are still a problem for her. It all happened over the space of about a minute so I think the audience should be able to suspend disbelief for that short period. If it makes you feel better you can imagine confusion in the control room when the sheriff walked away and the marshals shot each other which lasted for that minute before they worked out what a potential cause could be and took action.

I could imagine that but having taken the "malfunctioning" hosts in for diagnostics I imagine they we see that they were following a command from someone with authorization to give such commands and this would lead back to Maeve and the techs. Nothing g about that scene holds water and there could surely have been more subtle ways for the writers to demonstrate Maeve's new powers.

alchemist33

When Bernard asked Ford if he'd made him kill before, and Bernard had a flashback, was that Teresa or Elsie he was strangling? I rewound and still wasn't sure but she seemed to be wearing boots that were more in keeping with Elsie.

Effects

alchemist33 wrote: »

When Bernard asked Ford if he'd made him kill before, and Bernard had a flashback, was that Teresa or Elsie he was strangling?

Clearly Elsie.

FunLover18

alchemist33 wrote:

When Bernard asked Ford if he'd made him kill before, and Bernard had a flashback, was that Teresa or Elsie he was strangling? I rewound and still wasn't sure but she seemed to be wearing boots that were more in keeping with Elsie.

I thought it was Elsie but wasn't she "kidnapped" as she was on the phone to Bernard while he was in Theresa's? I suppose Ford could have taken her and then summoned Bernard.

People are getting too involved in this and I don't think it's that kind of show. I got this way with Lost, but that was all hidden clues and whatnot.

I just don't think this show is done the same way.

Effects

FunLover18 wrote: »

I thought it was Elsie but wasn't she "kidnapped" as she was on the phone to Bernard while he was in Theresa's? I suppose Ford could have taken her and then summoned Bernard.

It's Elsie in his flashback. No question about that. Completely different setup to where Theresa was killed.

As far as I can remember he was in Theresa's for the first call but then left.

Effects

Deleted User wrote: »

I got this way with Lost, but that was all hidden clues and whatnot.

Hidden clues and millions of red herrings!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Turtwig

Is Elsie dead though? All they showed was him apparently strangling her. With Theresa we have a body.

Or does Ford want a host version of elsie?

I agree though, this show while currently intriguing, has the potential to collapse inward on itself in an instant.

The Maeve techies dynamic has been very poorly handled so far.

Foxtrol

FunLover18 wrote: »

Then why does she walk up to the sheriff and then to the marshals, even more reason that this behaviour should cause suspicion, not to mention that the amount of times she's in for repairs is surely logged and we see how quickly the techs who have been working on her can access her key commands through their tablet. There's a significant lack of consistency with regard to how well monitored the park actually is.

Because walking up to another character is a minor variance from the narrative while taking out a knife and cutting the new working girl is a huge variance and both are treated as such.

They’ve gone to great lengths to repeatedly and consistently show us that they need close access with the hosts to analyse their code and even then they need to know what they have to perform a detailed analysis to work out what the issues are (and despite testing multiple hosts they’ve shown that they still aren’t able to fully understand what is going wrong with the hosts). Some posters seem to think that the code and individually actions of all hosts are being watched 24/7 which is not the case.

I could imagine that but having taken the "malfunctioning" hosts in for diagnostics I imagine they we see that they were following a command from someone with authorization to give such commands and this would lead back to Maeve and the techs. Nothing g about that scene holds water and there could surely have been more subtle ways for the writers to demonstrate Maeve's new powers.

How can you say that it doesn’t hold water when a) we haven’t seen what her full plan is i.e, this could be just a diversion or as she said the just first step in getting her crew together and b) it clearly didn’t go to plan due to the memory coming back to her and her killing the other host? She has repeatedly used the Park’s procedures against them so after a single scene of her escape plan I think it’s ridiculous to write it off.

irishash

I think there is a lot of confusion out there about this episode. There was quite a lot in it as opposed to previous eps which focused on 2 story lines at most. This had 4 story lines all going on at the same time, so a rewatch is a must I feel.



Quite a lot of chat about Maeve and how she will try to escape, but I think we already saw her try to implement the escape but this was foiled by her accidental killing of the new (improved) Clementine. Maeve was going to the Stagecoach to go somewhere (the train station??) and leave the park. Now she will have to come up with a new plan. I think with her ability to control other hosts, she will use those hosts in the behaviour department to create distractions in order for her to slip away, or get them to protect her.



Also I thought it was interesting to see a host attack a guest with a knife It looked like MIB was cut (but only very lighted) by the knife. I wonder does this fall under the realm of immersion by not danger? Would be very easy to cut the wrong area or if a guest moved in a strange way, the knife could go somewhere the host did not intend That is a bit of a plot hole to me, in so far as it has not been explained yet.



A lot of people thought, including myself, that perhaps a host Teresa was been created in the beta lab. I now think Wyatt is the one being created what are the chances that Wyatt turns out to be a character we have already seen? For example, Dolores gets to where she needs to be, in the present timeline, along with MIB and Teddy, and out of the woods walks .William!?!?! Or something crazy like that.



Lastly, does anybody else think there is a significance that the idiot board member choose Abernathy to carry the park data? She would not know he had a problem prior to his retirement, although Sizemore should? Just seems strange that of all the hosts down there, they picked him. Sure he is fresher looking than a lot of them, but still, something may happen because of that decision.

Lirange

conorhal wrote: »

It should be aparent to even the dimmest bulb at this stage that 'loosing your job' is likely to be the least of your worries, the prospect of being being responsible for the massive loss of life amongst the parks guests should be weighing on their minds at this point, since they just

It was not obvious at the beginning that there was a risk "of being responsible for massive loss of life." As I posted on the previous page:

So initially they would play along thinking the security protocols would eventually stymie Maeve and they could fob the whole thing off onto someone else at Delos.

FunLover18

irishash wrote:

A lot of people thought, including myself, that perhaps a host Teresa was been created in the beta lab. I now think Wyatt is the one being created what are the chances that Wyatt turns out to be a character we have already seen? For example, Dolores gets to where she needs to be, in the present timeline, along with MIB and Teddy, and out of the woods walks .William!?!?! Or something crazy like that.

Have we not already seen Wyatt in Teddy's flashbacks to his new backstory?

irishash

FunLover18 wrote: »

Have we not already seen Wyatt in Teddy's flashbacks to his new backstory?

I thought the same, but it has never been confirmed that the person in the flashbacks is Wyatt. Also, if there is already a host Wyatt, then why did Sizemore think he was scripting with Wyatt? He would already know of there was an existing model?

It could be that Wyatt is a phantom, a metaphor for somebody else. It is hinted that maybe Delores was the host that killed everybody in the small town (making her Wyatt). But again the question is asked why not retire her if that us what happened.

Thargor

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Only got round to watching Ep8 last night. Another great episode. Pretty much confirms one major fan theory.



I don't think it's stupid at all.

The whole show explores lots of different themes. One of these is nature vs nurture. When we look at our qualities as a person, how did we get those qualities - are they in us from birth, or are they a product of the environment we're in? I see a great parallel here between some of the humans in the show who are discovering themselves (both the MIB, and his potentially younger self in a different time period, William) and the hosts who are beginning to awaken. Bernard for instance is horrified at his actions towards Theresa, whilst Maeve is hellbent on freeing herself and seems to be fairly ruthless/callous in how she goes about it. The hosts have developed certain personalities as a result of the programming and environment they find themselves forced into in, whilst humans like the MIB are deliberately progressing their own personal development by choosing to put themselves in that same environment.

WTF are you on about? Are you still going with this gibberish even after the MiB explains that he came to Westworld after his wife kills herself and he wanted to do something horrible? Or the fact that she is having flashbacks about being killed by the MiB while with William in the recent episode?

Thargor

Roar wrote: »

How do you know they're not? We never actually see what happened, so you can't say for definite that he did rape her. So it is worth arguing.

I don't think he did anyway tbh.

Okay so a guy shoots her boyfriend then says "Lets celebrate" and drags a screaming woman into a barn and closes the door behind him, but you dont think rape was being implied in that scene? Or that she later kills a rapist in the exact same position after hallucinating Ed Harris's face on him?

irishash

Thargor wrote: »

Okay so a guy shoots her boyfriend then says "Lets celebrate" and drags a screaming woman into a barn and closes the door behind him, but you dont think rape was being implied in that scene?

It was certainly implied (in the first episode) that he was going to assualt her in some way in the barn, but then we see the scene giphed above and we now know more. He says the line "Lets reaquaint ourselves..." then he pulls out his massive (careful now) knife. Then we see no more.

What is interesting is that when remembering this incident, it is the trigger point to Delores going on the run. Going back to the beginning perhaps, her beginning with William/MIB?

irishash

Thargor wrote: »

WTF are you on about? Are you still going with this gibberish even after the MiB explains that he came to Westworld after his wife kills herself and he wanted to do something horrible? Or the fact that she is having flashbacks about being killed by the MiB while with William in the recent episode?

None of what you said above discounts the william/MiB or timeline theorys. MIB said he came to the park after his wife died to do something specific, to see if he could be truly evil. He never said it was his first time in the park.

Also if we are looking at Delores as she is reliving events from the past, of course she could have flashbacks of MIB as those events happened in the past also from that perspective.

Thargor

irishash wrote: »

None of what you said above discounts the william/MiB or timeline theorys. MIB said he came to the park after his wife died to do something specific, to see if he could be truly evil. He never said it was his first time in the park.

Also if we are looking at Delores as she is reliving events from the past, of course she could have flashbacks of MIB as those events happened in the past also from that perspective.

She's having MiB flashbacks when she's with young William.

Turtwig

Thargor wrote: »

She's having MiB flashbacks when she's with young William.

Which mib flash back occurred with William?

I thought the best argument for William being mib was when he met Ford. Probably the only character Ford didn't address by a name

Thargor

Oh yeah and the security guy Stubbs approves the pyrotechnics for the MiB in that scene at the same time as he comments on how far Delores has travelled from Sweetwater with William so thats pretty much the end of it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5ahru9/does_anyone_else_see_absolutely_no_reason_to/d9gskk2/

Turtwig

Thargor wrote: »

Oh yeah and the security guy Stubbs approves the pyrotechnics for the MiB in that scene at the same time as he comments on how far Delores has travelled from Sweetwater with William so thats pretty much the end of it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5ahru9/does_anyone_else_see_absolutely_no_reason_to/d9gskk2/

Still a skeptic of TT but that could be explainable by the fact that Dolores could simply be reliving and physically retracing her memory of Wiliam. Park control at pyro time can't ascertain whether she is with guests or not. It's possible that because hosts relive memories so vibrantly that Dolores is experiencing multiple different timelines and living them like they all are occurring at once. Delores is wandering a lone in the present, recalling memories of the past from her time with William and her memories from other periods. Or vice versa. Time "travel" or timelines always make things fun. One thing there is strong evidence for is that the story is being told non linearly.

Also, though probably far more unlikely. Pyro request might have had nothing to do with ManinBlack.

And big digression but one other person I think would be very likely to be a host is Stubbs. It would seem to be the best way imo of regaining completely authority over park security. They've already shown that hosts are used as the first line of security when things go awry. Stubbs is your stereotypical paranoid observant head of security in just about every way.

FunLover18

Anyone else notice when the executive was with the writer in the freezer the old logo was on the door so William could be in present day.

oleras

FunLover18 wrote: »

Anyone else notice when the executive was with the writer in the freezer the old logo was on the door so William could be in present day.

They are just in an older part of the facility i think.

irishash

Thargor wrote: »

Oh yeah and the security guy Stubbs approves the pyrotechnics for the MiB in that scene at the same time as he comments on how far Delores has travelled from Sweetwater with William so thats pretty much the end of it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5ahru9/does_anyone_else_see_absolutely_no_reason_to/d9gskk2/

Not the end of it. When Stubbs is told about a host that has wandered off loop, he makes a request for a retrival. Around the same time he approves the pryo effect. When we see Delores we are viewing the world through her eyes. So when we see William we are seeing her memories. Delores is retracing a journey in the same time period as MIB, but we are seeing multiple events through time via her memories.

While you mention the pyro event, there was a large explosion in the 7th episode when they blow up the guy filled with nitro. We saw no request for a pryo in that instance. Now it could be that we were just not shown the behind the scenes request. Or it may be that 30 years ago no requests were needed as health and safety was a little more lax.