Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

Turtwig

ManOfMystery wrote: »

In episode 1, there was a reference to 'next rotation home' by one of the WW staff. For a while I've thought that may be a small clue - amongst others - that WW is on a different planet to Earth. Take Mars for example - its orbit round the sun is elliptical, which means that there is only one point in it's cycle where it's closest to earth (33 million miles) and at it's farthest point it's 250 millions away. Journeys to and fro there would have to be scheduled for obvious reasons to coincide with its rotation when its closest to Earth, so that it would be quicker and more fuel efficient. .

Fuel efficient journeys to and from a planet would rarely be scheduled based on planetary bodies proximity to one another. Even though they may be close distance wise the orbital path the planets take may mean there is a huge velocity differential between the two at their closest approach. Think of it as being 3 metres from a train going full speed. Unless you match the trains speed first you're not hopping on board alive. Planetary transfers are similar, the goal is to depart the planet at such a point that when you reach the slowest point of your "new" orbit you are falling into a fly by with the new planet and the required change in velocity for an orbit/landing is the lowest.

A_Sober_Paddy

Is William or Logan a younger version of ed Harris ?

jcsoulinger

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Is William or Logan a younger version of ed Harris ?

The general consensus is its William.

Stoogie

Turtwig wrote: »

Fuel efficient journeys to and from a planet would rarely be scheduled based on planetary bodies proximity to one another. Even though they may be close distance wise the orbital path the planets take may mean there is a huge velocity differential between the two at their closest approach. Think of it as being 3 metres from a train going full speed. Unless you match the trains speed first you're not hopping on board alive. Planetary transfers are similar, the goal is to depart the planet at such a point that when you reach the slowest point of your "new" orbit you are falling into a fly by with the new planet and the required change in velocity for an orbit/landing is the lowest.

I've found that unless you are willing to explain the four dimensional aspect to interplanetary vectors you can just agree that the two bodies are nearer.;)

errlloyd

Stoogie wrote: »

I've found that unless you are willing to explain the four dimensional aspect to interplanetary vectors you can just agree that the two bodies are nearer.;)

I found that really interesting though...

Jan_de_Bakker

This timeline thing has killed it for me ..

CastorTroy

I was wondering how the knife sliced through Dolores' stomach. Never mind that she walked away despite Teddy being stabbed and dying later, but when he opened her up it was clear the robotics would've stopped the knife.

Liamalone

CastorTroy wrote: »

I was wondering how the knife sliced through Dolores' stomach. Never mind that she walked away despite Teddy being stabbed and dying later, but when he opened her up it was clear the robotics would've stopped the knife.

Now now, but but, tis all ok because it's not supposed to make sense, that's what keeps it going.

Member 'Lost'? Yeah, I member.

Turpentine

CastorTroy wrote: »

I was wondering how the knife sliced through Dolores' stomach. Never mind that she walked away despite Teddy being stabbed and dying later, but when he opened her up it was clear the robotics would've stopped the knife.

Different build of robot maybe? She's old school.

Dolores is going to to die (in that loop) from that wound anyway, it's been telegraphed already. (Found in the river)

Turtwig

CastorTroy wrote: »

I was wondering how the knife sliced through Dolores' stomach. Never mind that she walked away despite Teddy being stabbed and dying later, but when he opened her up it was clear the robotics would've stopped the knife.

Let's recap.

Dolores is the "original" model of hosts. Ford wanted to make them as human like as possible. (Arnold wanted to give them consciousness). So it's very plausible she'd behave like she was going to die. Recall also that the hosts are/were programmed to not see or perceive anything that would indicate their reality is false. Dolores wouldn't see the robotics, nor would any of the other hosts around her. In fact I think the episode depicted this. Only from Logan and William's perspective could we the robotics. The newer models don't appear to have the obviously metal robotics.

Teddy, while your bonafide heroic (anti hero?) soldier boy, has been tortured and left to die, given a blood infusion but forced to carry on immediately, pierced with an arrow, and stabbed in the gut. Ouch! Poor Teddy gets some horrible narratives.

Essien

Considering all the comparisons to Lost, this season has wrapped itself up pretty well, so far at least.

To some, it may have appeared nonsensical up to a point but last night pretty much brought everything together perfectly.

Oh and wasn't MiB all but confirmed as William by Dolores in the church? As he approached the door she said "William!?" and in walks MiB to introduce himself.

ManOfMystery

Turtwig wrote: »

Fuel efficient journeys to and from a planet would rarely be scheduled based on planetary bodies proximity to one another. Even though they may be close distance wise the orbital path the planets take may mean there is a huge velocity differential between the two at their closest approach. Think of it as being 3 metres from a train going full speed. Unless you match the trains speed first you're not hopping on board alive. Planetary transfers are similar, the goal is to depart the planet at such a point that when you reach the slowest point of your "new" orbit you are falling into a fly by with the new planet and the required change in velocity for an orbit/landing is the lowest.

In my weak defence, I work in IT, not NASA

ManOfMystery

Essien wrote: »

Oh and wasn't MiB all but confirmed as William by Dolores in the church? As he approached the door she said "William!?" and in walks MiB to introduce himself.

She was expecting William perhaps. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's MIB, though I do support the theory that they're one and the same.

I still have this sneaking suspicion that a lot of it is misdirection and we're being led to believe they're the same person, and the rug will suddenly be pulled out from under us in the finale.

Essien

ManOfMystery wrote: »

She was expecting William perhaps. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's MIB, though I do support the theory that they're one and the same.

They used the same trick with Elsie right before she was strangled. She called "Bernard?", and even though that immediately appeared to be wrong, it turned out that it actually was him.

Keyzer

I have issues with this episode, laziness and sloppiness seems to be creeping in and, given the quality of the show to date, it's very disappointing. I've been singing this shows praises to all and sundry of late and this is the first episode I have taken exception to.

Issue 1: Billy/William's abrupt transformation from all round nice guy since his introduction, full of empathy and caring for Dolores. And then, in the blink of an eye (I actually had to rewind the episode to make sure I didn't miss anything), he goes on a rampage and 'kills' several hosts for no apparent reason. Doesn't make any sense to me and his actions, from a continuity perspective, don't make sense when compared to his previous charachter portrayal.

Issue 2: Maeve. How has she gotten this far unnoticed. Yes, Bernard copped it in last nights episode. And the two techs were helping her (why they are helping her still makes no sense to me). How the hell has no one else noticed her behaviour? Surely, given the safety of the guests is paramount, monitoring host behaviour would be pretty high on the agenda when it comes to park safety. Apparently, the show is set in the future where technology has advanced to the point whereby human life can be almost perfectly recreated yet there is no monitoring mechanism in place to notice massive changes to host personality or actions??? This is a host who has gone off the reservation in a monumental way and poses a significant threat to park safety. There is no conceivable way she could have gotten this far unnoticed given the fundamental changes to her code and her actions of late. She should have been taken out of the park by now and destroyed, no reset or memory wipe.

Keyzer

Keyzer wrote: »

I have issues with this episode, laziness and sloppiness seems to be creeping in and, given the quality of the show to date, it's very disappointing. I've been singing this shows praises to all and sundry of late and this is the first episode I have taken exception to.

Issue 1: Billy/William's abrupt transformation from all round nice guy since his introduction, full of empathy and caring for Dolores. And then, in the blink of an eye (I actually had to rewind the episode to make sure I didn't miss anything), he goes on a rampage and 'kills' several hosts for no apparent reason. Doesn't make any sense to me and his actions, from a continuity perspective, don't make sense when compared to his previous charachter portrayal.

Issue 2: Maeve. How has she gotten this far unnoticed. Yes, Bernard copped it in last nights episode. And the two techs were helping her (why they are helping her still makes no sense to me). How the hell has no one else noticed her behaviour? Surely, given the safety of the guests is paramount, monitoring host behaviour would be pretty high on the agenda when it comes to park safety. Apparently, the show is set in the future where technology has advanced to the point whereby human life can be almost perfectly recreated yet there is no monitoring mechanism in place to notice massive changes to host personality or actions??? This is a host who has gone off the reservation in a monumental way and poses a significant threat to park safety. There is no conceivable way she could have gotten this far unnoticed given the fundamental changes to her code and her actions of late. She should have been taken out of the park by now and destroyed, no reset or memory wipe.

Im very surprised the hosts dont have a syslog daemon running.

errlloyd

Keyzer wrote: »

Issue 1: Billy/William's abrupt transformation from all round nice guy since his introduction, full of empathy and caring for Dolores. And then, in the blink of an eye (I actually had to rewind the episode to make sure I didn't miss anything), he goes on a rampage and 'kills' several hosts for no apparent reason. Doesn't make any sense to me and his actions, from a continuity perspective, don't make sense when compared to his previous charachter portrayal.

Issue 2: Maeve. How has she gotten this far unnoticed. Yes, Bernard copped it in last nights episode. And the two techs were helping her (why they are helping her still makes no sense to me). How the hell has no one else noticed her behaviour? Surely, given the safety of the guests is paramount, monitoring host behaviour would be pretty high on the agenda when it comes to park safety. Apparently, the show is set in the future where technology has advanced to the point whereby human life can be almost perfectly recreated yet there is no monitoring mechanism in place to notice massive changes to host personality or actions??? This is a host who has gone off the reservation in a monumental way and poses a significant threat to park safety. There is no conceivable way she could have gotten this far unnoticed given the fundamental changes to her code and her actions of late. She should have been taken out of the park by now and destroyed, no reset or memory wipe.

Issue 1 is pretty obvious. The whole point of the transformation is that it highlights how traumatic the event was for William. Remember he's in love with this girl - then his soon to be brother in law doesn't just kill her (which would be traumatic), but cuts her open and shows the whole thing was a lie. His whole world has been destroyed. He was also tied up for ages, so he had plenty of time to grow bitter. Maybe he does it to get revenge against Logan, maybe he does it to get revenge against the park.

Issue 2 is more that the techies seem capable of discovering there is a serious issue with Meave, but the overall responsibility of fixing that issue falls to Bernard who is also a host, and Meave forced him to let her back.

Easy Rod

errlloyd wrote: »

Issue 1 is pretty obvious. The whole point of the transformation is that it highlights how traumatic the event was for William. Remember he's in love with this girl - then his soon to be brother in law doesn't just kill her (which would be traumatic), but cuts her open and shows the whole thing was a lie. His whole world has been destroyed. He was also tied up for ages, so he had plenty of time to grow bitter. Maybe he does it to get revenge against Logan, maybe he does it to get revenge against the park.

Issue 2 is more that the techies seem capable of discovering there is a serious issue with Meave, but the overall responsibility of fixing that issue falls to Bernard who is also a host, and Meave forced him to let her back.

Also on issue one, it's only hosts he's slaughtered so there's a disconnect there, it's not like he's murdered real people. I know he's technically in love with a host but his argument is that she's "different" than the rest.

Easy Rod

Easy Rod wrote: »

Also on issue one, it's only hosts he's slaughtered so there's a disconnect there, it's not like he's murdered real people. I know he's technically in love with a host but his argument is that she's "different" than the rest.

It could also be a way of showing Logan, "hey look, I don't care about hosts anymore".

expectationlost

errlloyd wrote: »

Issue 1 is pretty obvious. The whole point of the transformation is that it highlights how traumatic the event was for William. Remember he's in love with this girl - then his soon to be brother in law doesn't just kill her (which would be traumatic), but cuts her open and shows the whole thing was a lie. His whole world has been destroyed. He was also tied up for ages, so he had plenty of time to grow bitter. Maybe he does it to get revenge against Logan, maybe he does it to get revenge against the park.

Issue 2 is more that the techies seem capable of discovering there is a serious issue with Meave, but the overall responsibility of fixing that issue falls to Bernard who is also a host, and Meave forced him to let her back.

i thought he would would rush off to help a sliced up delores but maybe he sliced up the soldiers in order to see how they work and how to fix them, their skin atleast.

expectationlost

Turtwig wrote: »

Let's recap.

Dolores is the "original" model of hosts. Ford wanted to make them as human like as possible. (Arnold wanted to give them consciousness). So it's very plausible she'd behave like she was going to die. Recall also that the hosts are/were programmed to not see or perceive anything that would indicate their reality is false. Dolores wouldn't see the robotics, nor would any of the other hosts around her. In fact I think the episode depicted this. Only from Logan and William's perspective could we the robotics. The newer models don't appear to have the obviously metal robotics.

i thought doleres could see the robotics when she momentarily looked down and fainted, and the rest of the episode wit her was based on memories

Foreign Sports

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I feel like I need Doc Brown to explain all this on a chalkboard

Hopkins hasn't been this mesmerizing since Silence of the Lambs. I've been very impressed by Jeffrey Wright and Thandie Newton, but Hopkins is just on another level.

Not sure if this has been posted before but it is well worth a watch and shows the acting skills of Anthony Hopkins. He really is a fantastic actor.

AlmightyCushion

Hazys wrote: »

One thing that bugged me is that Bernard's first memory is of a young Ford bringing him to life but Bernard is the exact same age as he is today. So Bernard has not aged in what must be 10-30 years of working in Westworld. How has nobody seen this a suspicious? Is Ford the only employee who has worked there longer than 5 years? Seems unbelievable.

When Bernard is brought to life old Ford is the one he sees. Dolores is the one that sees young Ford. I'm pretty sure we've never seen the actor who plays young Ford before let alone see him interact with Bernard.

corkie

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

When Bernard is brought to life old Ford is the one he sees. Dolores is the one that sees young Ford. I'm pretty sure we've never seen the actor who plays young Ford before let alone see him interact with Bernard.

Not an actor playing young ford but CGI!



^^^ Photo of young AH (on the right) and the CGI version (on the left).

Here's how Westworld de-aged Anthony Hopkins

Frank O. Pinion

Just watched the 9 episodes over today and yesterday. Overall, a good show, getting better in the second half of the season, after a slow start.

But is there a show/movie like this that doesn't try to make the viewer have empathy for AI? "Morality", is a common theme with this premise, but is there anything "wrong" about raping or killing a piece of technology? I don't think so. In my eyes, characters don't automatically become evil characters if they treat robots badly, and if they fall in love with a piece of technology, they seem like a bit of moron to me.

expectationlost

corkie wrote: »

Not an actor playing young ford but CGI!



^^^ Photo of young AH (on the right) and the CGI version (on the left).

Here's how Westworld de-aged Anthony Hopkins

just wondering about this

But that wasn’t the end of it, with Worth also explaining that the reason young Ford doesn’t look exactly like young Hopkins (he’s a bit more wrinkled) was to do with the actor’s reputation in the US.
"America doesn't really remember Sir Tony before Silence of the Lambs,” Worth said.
“Obviously we found every reference we could from every movie and every photo and everything from the correct timeframe. But it really came down to what feels most like our character in the past, as much as

do we remember hopkins from before silence of the lambs?

ManOfMystery

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

But is there a show/movie like this that doesn't try to make the viewer have empathy for AI? "Morality", is a common theme with this premise, but is there anything "wrong" about raping or killing a piece of technology? I don't think so. In my eyes, characters don't automatically become evil characters if they treat robots badly, and if they fall in love with a piece of technology, they seem like a bit of moron to me.

Even if said robots are on the verge of gaining their own sentience and, like Maeve, no longer having to rely on their programming to guide their actions?

Ep2 - William arrives and asks the female showing him around if she's a host. She replies "If you can't tell, does it really matter?". This to me is the question which drives the whole show. If the hosts look human, have skin and blood like humans, feel pain like humans, and are now becoming sentient and free-thinking - why wouldn't they be deserving of the same rights as humans?

Daroxtar

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

When Bernard is brought to life old Ford is the one he sees. Dolores is the one that sees young Ford. I'm pretty sure we've never seen the actor who plays young Ford before let alone see him interact with Bernard.

Not quite old Ford. He had slightly darker hair and a few less wrinkles

Frank O. Pinion

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Even if said robots are on the verge of gaining their own sentience and, like Maeve, no longer having to rely on their programming to guide their actions?

Ep2 - William arrives and asks the female showing him around if she's a host. She replies "If you can't tell, does it really matter?". This to me is the question which drives the whole show. If the hosts look human, have skin and blood like humans, feel pain like humans, and are now becoming sentient and free-thinking - why wouldn't they be deserving of the same rights as humans?

Because they're not human? Because if you destroy or abuse it, it can be replaced or reprogrammed? Only humans should have human rights. I fully support technological evolution and the merging of AI and human evolution into one reality like some scientific theories (mainly so I can upload my brain into a robot and live forever), but I'm so tired of media making robot rape a big deal. Then reading feminist articles about how allowing men to rape robots, could make men do it against real women. Like how everyone who plays GTA then goes and steals cars. The whole premise is as laughable to me as "raping" a blow-up doll. Crying over a robot you loved getting killed? Just get a new version and stick your dick in that.

Effects

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

Like how everyone who plays GTA then goes and steals cars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/28/boy-11-leads-police-dangerous-car-chase-grand-theft-auto-session/