Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

What a fantastic finale. I was a massive hater of this show, to the degree that I even gave up on it after four episodes. I came back to it after my friends kept talking about it. I still was put off by all the somewhat unexplainable mysteriousness throughout. I felt they left far too much up to the viewer. But the finally tied everything together beautifully. I'm on the fence about the show as a whole. I genuinely didn't enjoy the journey for the most part but I absolutely loved the destination. Right now I'm struggling to think of another show that has a better ending. I don't think there is any need for a second season.

One thing though: why did that asian technician guy help Maeve? I presumed he was a host all along programmed to be subservient to facilitate Maeve's escape narrative. Apparently not.

ManOfMystery

Anthony Hopkins interview on WW :

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/westworld-anthony-hopkins-finale?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

ManOfMystery

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I thought she simply approved herself to leave the park (and didn't approve Hector - as she stated) - as opposed to their being a physical reason they wouldn't be able to leave.

She did, but there were also physical restrictions.

RobbingBandit

Same as Bernard not being able to see the door Hector couldn't walk through the final door Maeve also needed some cover whilst she escaped with Felix.

peteeeed

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing though: why did that asian technician guy help Maeve? I presumed he was a host all along programmed to be subservient to facilitate Maeve's escape narrative. Apparently not.

he loves her

dr.kenneth noisewater

Really enjoyed the finale, had hoped they would leave it as 1 season but the Samuari world really makes the place appear bigger than we thought! 
Why did the other tech guy not just raise the alarm after Maeve and them left? Surely if the murdered 2 other techs they would have been just gunned down?

allybhoy

ManOfMystery wrote: »

The touchscreen Bernard was holding displayed most of her coding which was enabling her to make the escape. In almost chronological order. There was a reference to 'mainland infiltration' in there almost directly after the 'train' and 'exit WW' modules, but as Maeve decided to get off the train and return to WW it's clear that she's now making her own choices completely independent of programming.

The security restriction you're thinking of is a small bomb placed within all host bodies which will go off if they attempt to leave the park.

Just on this,

I thought the same and presumed she would just blow up as soon as she left the park, however I read an article earlier which explained something to me that I had missed maybe others have aswell, remember that weird scene where she and Hector banged as the tent burned down, she did that so her corpse would be burnt to a crisp and so the asian guy could then remove the explosives from her back... I dont think this was ever explained or shown or if it was i must have missed it..

ManOfMystery

allybhoy wrote: »

Just on this,

I thought the same and presumed she would just blow up as soon as she left the park, however I read an article earlier which explained something to me that I had missed maybe others have aswell, remember that weird scene where she and Hector banged as the tent burned down, she did that so her corpse would be burnt to a crisp and so the asian guy could then remove the explosives from her back... I dont think this was ever explained or shown or if it was i must have missed it..

Yes I figured that's why they let it burn down. It didn't explicitly .................

show them moving Maeve's burnt body, but when Sylvester (the other tech) is putting the skeleton together in the finale, I think we're meant to assume that's her

strawdog

Really enjoyed the finale and the series. The fact I continued to enjoy it and was satisfied with the conclusion, despite the fact that the big reveals had already been twigged and put out online prior to broadcast, show that (for me anyway), it worked on a higher level than just being a pot boiler relying on exposition to suck you in.

A part of me can't help but feel, if this does go wrong in later series, it'll end up going more like the Matrix went than Lost. A really good idea executed tightly in the first run but that get's out of hand as they try to escalate and expand the world. But I think it's crazy to say they shouldn't go on just because the 1st series is so good. Who knows, they could match or improve on what's gone on so far.

.......

This post has been deleted.

expectationlost

CatInABox wrote: »

I'm guessing that Ford's plan is not just to help the hosts gain consciousness, but also to convince the public at large that they're conscious. My guess would be that Meave is central to that storyline, with her overriding the storyline that she was given, and running into a park that's gone totally mental to save her daughter. What could be more human than a mothers love, after all?

ok this is a good guess but Im just confused about ford motivation was he not against the robots becoming sentient is it only now that he old/about to die/about to have it taken away from him that he's changed his mind, and apart from the reveries, did he not programme maeve to escape, and make her core programming to love her daughter, so it means she is not sentient.

oh this post from previous page Is better guess then mine http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101884443&postcount=1170


ford did purposely put back in the reveries, bernard was wrong about that?

Birneybau

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Oh and as always, great musical choices in the finale. I'm sure everyone heard Radiohead's music in there, there was a Muse song used also.

Hermann's Hermits to Radiohead's Beatles.

ManOfMystery

expectationlost wrote: »

ok this is a good guess but Im just confused about ford motivation was he not against the robots becoming sentient is it only now that he old/about to die/about to have it taken away from him that he's changed his mind, and apart from the reveries, did he not programme maeve to escape, and make her core programming to love her daughter, so it means she is not sentient.

oh this post from previous page Is better guess then mine http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101884443&postcount=1170


ford did purposely put back in the reveries, bernard was wrong about that?

Ford didn't just change his mind in this last episode, he did it some time ago. This entire thing - the hosts becoming more sentient, Maeve's escape and so on - has been mostly his doing.

He did program Maeve to escape yes, but at the last minute she steps off the train back into Westworld. She is going against her programming now and displaying true sentience. 'But what if she was programmed to go back for her daughter' you might ask? As we saw on Bernard's touch panel, her programming was actually telling her to get on the train, then infiltrate the mainland.

expectationlost

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Ford didn't just change his mind in this last episode, he did it some time ago. This entire thing - the hosts becoming more sentient, Maeve's escape and so on - has been mostly his doing.

He did program Maeve to escape yes, but at the last minute she steps off the train back into Westworld. She is going against her programming now and displaying true sentience. 'But what if she was programmed to go back for her daughter' you might ask? As we saw on Bernard's touch panel, her programming was actually telling her to get on the train, then infiltrate the mainland.

i didn't say Ford changed his mind in this episode, are we supposed to understand this show only through screen grabs afterwards and hard to read text?

how is a fake daughter in her _core_ programming meaning she doens't leave WestWorld going against her programming?

expectationlost

william is a little bitch, going crazy over a robot sex doll


i didn't get why it was MIB could not understand that the maze was not for him, did he not ever consider that the delores self awareness was more then a bug?

irishash

expectationlost wrote: »

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Ford didn't just change his mind in this last episode, he did it some time ago. This entire thing - the hosts becoming more sentient, Maeve's escape and so on - has been mostly his doing.

He did program Maeve to escape yes, but at the last minute she steps off the train back into Westworld. She is going against her programming now and displaying true sentience. 'But what if she was programmed to go back for her daughter' you might ask? As we saw on Bernard's touch panel, her programming was actually telling her to get on the train, then infiltrate the mainland.

i didn't say Ford changed his mind in this episode, are we supposed to understand this show only through screen grabs afterwards and hard to read text?

how is a fake daughter in her _core_ programming meaning she doens't leave WestWorld going against her programming?

Bernard started to say "In fact when you get to the mainland...." when telling Maeve about her new narrative, before he was cut off by Maeve. So this tells you that her narrative was to continue outside of the park, but she broke with this by getting off the train. She is not as far along as Delores in understanding her true consciousness but she is getting there and this is a major part of it.

irishash

In the final scene, when old William (so happy to finally stop calling him MIB) gets shot in the arm, is it Clementine with the rifle that we see afterward? I have not watched it again to make sure.

PaddyWilliams

irishash wrote: »

In the final scene, when old William (so happy to finally stop calling him MIB) gets shot in the arm, is it Clementine with the rifle that we see afterward? I have not watched it again to make sure.

As far as I recall, yes, it was Clementine

ManOfMystery

expectationlost wrote: »

i didn't say Ford changed his mind in this episode, are we supposed to understand this show only through screen grabs afterwards and hard to read text?

Not at all. I don't see what's hard to understand - Bernard spoke to Maeve about going to the mainland, which she seemed set on. And the camera lingered for quite a long time on the picture above so anyone could have picked it up. It was all fairly clear.

It's not like it's a secret that this show thrives on the small details and 'hard to read' things - it demands effort from the viewer. That's part of the fun.

how is a fake daughter in her _core_ programming meaning she doens't leave WestWorld going against her programming?

She has unknowingly been programmed (she thinks it's free will) to leave Westworld and make her escape to the 'mainland'.

She opts not to do that, but to return to Westworld.

That is a violation of her programming. It is her exercising free will, and thus displaying some semblance of consciousness/sentience/whatever you want to call it.

It really doesn't matter if her daughter is real or not, or just another host playing a role. The love she feels for that character is real, and as we've seen from her flashbacks, it has become a cornerstone for her, and that is what is driving her independence. They had a relationship and a bond - how is that any different from a human who, say, adopts a child? There's no genetic bond there, just an emotional one built over time.

irishash

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

irishash wrote: »

In the final scene, when old William (so happy to finally stop calling him MIB) gets shot in the arm, is it Clementine with the rifle that we see afterward? I have not watched it again to make sure.

As far as I recall, yes, it was Clementine

So if it is Clementine, there is a way back from the lobotomy then. But I would imagine this would require replacing of the main processing unit in the head, or at least some kind of mechanical repair. So if that is the case, who repaired her? Last we saw of her, she was still a walking vegetable.

Ford has basically unleashed an army of killer robots and intended on sending one super smart killer robot out into the real world (Maeve). What a complete nutter.

expectationlost

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Not at all. I don't see what's hard to understand - Bernard spoke to Maeve about going to the mainland, which she seemed set on. And the camera lingered for quite a long time on the picture above so anyone could have picked it up. It was all fairly clear.

It's not like it's a secret that this show thrives on the small details and 'hard to read' things - it demands effort from the viewer. That's part of the fun.



She has unknowingly been programmed (she thinks it's free will) to leave Westworld and make her escape to the 'mainland'.

She opts not to do that, but to return to Westworld.

That is a violation of her programming. It is her exercising free will, and thus displaying some semblance of consciousness/sentience/whatever you want to call it.

It really doesn't matter if her daughter is real or not, or just another host playing a role. The love she feels for that character is real, and as we've seen from her flashbacks, it has become a cornerstone for her, and that is what is driving her independence. They had a relationship and a bond - how is that any different from a human who, say, adopts a child? There's no genetic bond there, just an emotional one built over time.

apparently its fun not to be able to read text on the screen? this isn't some easter egg, this a core part of her story arc.

but she was programmed with a cornerstone was that not her daughter and her love for it? ( the MIB can be blamed for her brutal murder)

Birneybau

expectationlost wrote: »

william is a little bitch, going crazy over a robot sex doll

And how!!!

ManOfMystery

expectationlost wrote: »

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Not at all. I don't see what's hard to understand - Bernard spoke to Maeve about going to the mainland, which she seemed set on. And the camera lingered for quite a long time on the picture above so anyone could have picked it up. It was all fairly clear.

It's not like it's a secret that this show thrives on the small details and 'hard to read' things - it demands effort from the viewer. That's part of the fun.



She has unknowingly been programmed (she thinks it's free will) to leave Westworld and make her escape to the 'mainland'.

She opts not to do that, but to return to Westworld.

That is a violation of her programming. It is her exercising free will, and thus displaying some semblance of consciousness/sentience/whatever you want to call it.

It really doesn't matter if her daughter is real or not, or just another host playing a role. The love she feels for that character is real, and as we've seen from her flashbacks, it has become a cornerstone for her, and that is what is driving her independence. They had a relationship and a bond - how is that any different from a human who, say, adopts a child? There's no genetic bond there, just an emotional one built over time.

apparently its fun not to be able to read text on the screen? this isn't some easter egg, this a core part of her story arc.

but she was programmed with a cornerstone was that not her daughter and her love for it? ( the MIB can be blamed for her brutal murder)

I'm sorry, I'm genuinely not trying to be facetious here but I don't understand your grievance with this. Bernard's touchpad wasn't hidden in a corner of the screen - the camera zoomed right in on it, lingered for a good while and Bernard also verbalised what was on there. They couldn't spell it out much more.

Maeves daughter has always been a driving force for her. We've seen the flashback to her murder numerous times and they also showed Maeve in the lab (prior to becoming a Madame) cracking up even after being powered down. The trauma of this event has been well covered.

Drumpot

ManOfMystery wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm genuinely not trying to be facetious here but I don't understand your grievance with this. Bernard's touchpad wasn't hidden in a corner of the screen - the camera zoomed right in on it, lingered for a good while and Bernard also verbalised what was on there. They couldn't spell it out much more.

Maeves daughter has always been a driving force for her. We've seen the flashback to her murder numerous times and they also showed Maeve in the lab (prior to becoming a Madame) cracking up even after being powered down. The trauma of this event has been well covered.

Agreed.

And Ford confirmed that he's been most likely been manipulating everything for this end game. He clarified that Arnolds death made him realise that Arnold was right about the hosts. He spent the next few decades helping the hosts become sentient beings and learning to take on humans.

I thought it was lovely when he wished Bernard good luck and said goodbye. Like a parent watching their child really go out on the own for the first time. It was also fitting that ford died in pretty much the exact same way and circumstances as Arnold, except Dolores had a choice with Fords death.

He set her up to kill him but gave her the free will to decide , trusting that she would do it. Likewise he set Maeve up to leave the park but she had the choice to stay and by staying she also made a choice by free will...

I will watch this series again over Christmas because I would say there is so much I have missed. I just loved this show..

corkie

What Door? Hardly worth to be top of the list?

What is your favorite moment?

One of my favorite quotes is: -

“If it’s such a wonderful place out there, why are you all clamoring to get in here?”

I don't know what I would say was my favorite moment!

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

Ford has basically unleashed an army of killer robots and intended on sending one super smart killer robot out into the real world (Maeve). What a complete nutter.

He doesn't believe they are robots but sentient beings , abused by humans, sort of like Frankenstein realising the error of his creation when it's too late (corporation takes over the park)and spends the rest of his life trying to fix it... Ford actually looks like he really cares for his creations but like his talk early on where he was intimidating Theresa (remember at that villa where the wine was being spilled to intimidate her) , he liked to give the impression that he didn't care at all... he said something like "I'm not sentimental" as a big machine tore through that mountain but he didn't destroy that town (indicating he does have feelings for the park).

Oh and then there's the mention of the park being purchased , presumably by William who's determined to find the maze. ford manipulated and uses this drive to help create his final story...

expectationlost

ManOfMystery wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm genuinely not trying to be facetious here but I don't understand your grievance with this. Bernard's touchpad wasn't hidden in a corner of the screen - the camera zoomed right in on it, lingered for a good while and Bernard also verbalised what was on there. They couldn't spell it out much more.

Maeves daughter has always been a driving force for her. We've seen the flashback to her murder numerous times and they also showed Maeve in the lab (prior to becoming a Madame) cracking up even after being powered down. The trauma of this event has been well covered.

she cares for her daughter because she was programmed to

expectationlost

Drumpot wrote: »

Agreed.

And Ford confirmed that he's been most likely been manipulating everything for this end game. He clarified that Fords death made him realise that Ford was right about the hosts. He spent the next few decades helping the hosts become sentient beings and learning to take on humans.

it took 30 years? i got the impression he spent the last 30 years stopping the hosts from becoming sentient, it seemed liked he had only turned on the reveries at the start of the season and this is when things changed

I thought it was lovely when he wished Bernard good luck and said goodbye. Like a parent watching their child really go out on the own for the first time. It was also fitting that ford died in pretty much the exact same way and circumstances as Arnold, except Dolores had a choice with Fords death.

He set her up to kill him but gave her the free will to decide , trusting that she would do it. Likewise he set Maeve up to leave the park but she had the choice to stay and by staying she also made a choice by free will...

did he not know Arnold had merged her with a killer AI? did he really not think she had the programming to do it?

Just had a thought earlier - By the time we get to see a new episode of Westworld in 2018 there will be no more new episodes of Game of Thrones to watch...ever