Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

Effects

Brendan Filone wrote: »

He's referring to the huge Game of Thrones spoiler just above.

It was four years ago, if they haven't seen it by now then it's fair game.

AlmightyCushion

Sad Professor wrote: »

He thought she was reaching for a gun and that she was a host. Also I guess the idea is that he's losing touch with reality, though until the last few episodes I'm not sure that has really come across.

I'm preparing myself for the reveal that he's a human host like James Delos who is starting to degrade. He's taken far too many bullets to be human.

I think they tried to make that a bit too obvious with him constantly grabbing his arm and then cutting into it with the knife in the last scene we seen him. It could be a red herring. I think he's just being delusional and paranoid like his profile says.

Sad Professor

If MIB isn't a host, then maybe Emily was. We never saw the result of her spine being scanned anyway. MIB's first instinct - that it was Ford screwing with him - might have been correct. It's the only way I can really justify his out of the blue paranoia in the middle of what seemed like a redemption arc.

Last episode she said she had plans to punish him in terrible ways. I find it strange that they would drop that in the space of one episode with no indication of what that plan even was. In this episode she said she wanted in on the project. It doesn't make sense.

Roberto_gas

MIB checks from time to time if he is a host or not by cutting his arm...since he is paranoid....i dont think he is a host...imagine not knowing yourself if u are real or host..

Other angle is he is the hybrid like james delos(his profile says Subject 002) and now started losing check with reality...

razorblunt

Take a bow James Marsden too. He's such an under-rated actor. The scene in the dilapidated barn was brilliant.

Penn

Sad Professor wrote: »

If MIB isn't a host, then maybe Emily was. We never saw the result of her spine being scanned anyway. MIB's first instinct - that it was Ford screwing with him - might have been correct. It's the only way I can really justify his out of the blue paranoia in the middle of what seemed like a redemption arc.

Last episode she said she had plans to punish him in terrible ways. I find it strange that they would drop that in the space of one episode with no indication of what that plan even was. In this episode she said she wanted in on the project. It doesn't make sense.

But towards the end when she started ranting at him she revealed she was going to expose him and everything they've been doing in the park. In the real world he's a charitable, benevolent businessman who is highly regarded, but she was going to strip that all away from him by revealing what kind of man he was (using the card to show how he acted in the park) and also how they've been scanning guests etc. She only said she wanted in on the project because she still needed some info about it.

As for his change in the episode, I think he's just paranoid. He let his guard down because he was injured and she got him talking about his wife and their family, but once he recovered enough he realised he had to set that aside and carry on with his plan, and that it was probably Ford messing with him. I don't think it was out of character, just that he was in a vulnerable state and let his guard down, then resolved to continue on.

Cina

This season isn't a patch on the first. The show has become a real convoluted mess and the multiple timelines are so needless. Episode eight (easily the season's best and a great singular episode of TV) showed that they don't need multiple timelines to keep viewer's enthralled.

I did like the ending of this one, an excellent performance by James Marsden, who has really never been used well by the show or given any real purpose other than "follow Dolores, shoot, kill". However, the rest of it was a bit crap.

Wouldn't be too bothered if they didn't do a season three.

Sad Professor

Penn wrote: »

But towards the end when she started ranting at him she revealed she was going to expose him and everything they've been doing in the park. In the real world he's a charitable, benevolent businessman who is highly regarded, but she was going to strip that all away from him by revealing what kind of man he was (using the card to show how he acted in the park) and also how they've been scanning guests etc. She only said she wanted in on the project because she still needed some info about it.

As for his change in the episode, I think he's just paranoid. He let his guard down because he was injured and she got him talking about his wife and their family, but once he recovered enough he realised he had to set that aside and carry on with his plan, and that it was probably Ford messing with him. I don't think it was out of character, just that he was in a vulnerable state and let his guard down, then resolved to continue on.

Yeah, you might be right. I had forgotten what she said about exposing him. But that could be a red herring to distract from her real plan.

Something else that might suggest Emily is a host:

Emily tells MIB the story of how her mother give her a music box. She says she threw it in the trash and when she went back to look for it it was gone, taken away with the rest of the trash. However, it's later revealed that her mother had it in her possession. If you believe Emily is human, this implies her mother took it out of the trash etc. However! - before her mother kills herself, she places William's Westworld profile card in the music box. The same card that Emily tries to show MIB before he shoots her. She couldn't have found the card without finding the music box, so what she said about the box being taken away with the trash was wrong. Even if that's what she originally thought, she should still know that her mother kept the music box.

The previous instances of her memory not aligning with MIB - he remembers her hating the elephants, she remembers loving them - could be dismissed as him being a lousy father with a bad memory, but this suggests his suspicions of her memory might have been correct.

Mc Love

So the wife hid Williams profile in the jewellery box, that Emily said she threw away. Maybe she found it after her mothers death, which would mean she isnt a host. But I can see the point that Ford is still playing a game, giving William the profile card to think that is the only one.

errlloyd

Mc Love wrote: »

So the wife hid Williams profile in the jewellery box, that Emily said she threw away. Maybe she found it after her mothers death, which would mean she isnt a host. But I can see the point that Ford is still playing a game, giving William the profile card to think that is the only one.

At some point Emily says she left it to her. I think that was the shows way of telling us it's the real Emily.

• She mentions the box as something important to her.
• The memory card was put in the box.
• She says the memory card was left to her - ie the box was left to her.
• William doesn't know that his wife found the card, but we saw that.

Assuming it's true that the wife found the card and put it in the box (and not some fake flashback), we can conclude that it is the real Emily (or a host programmed by the real Emily with the help of Ford for that matter).

This is pure theory on my part;

Let's think of the symbolism of the wife leaving the box to Emily. It was the gift that Emily rejected because her mother "didn't know her well enough", but inside is the evidence that Emily never really knew her father at all. Leaving the box to Emily was what gave her closure. The box is what Emily thinks drove her mum to suicide, the card is what William thinks drove his wife to suicide. By leaving BOTH to Emily I think the mother is saying it wasn't you it was him.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

errlloyd

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

PhiloCypher

Mib being a host would make a certain degree of sense . He's been shot at least 7 or 8 times this season and is still ticking. He's far too durable to be human and the writers are surely far too smart for it just to be a case of plot armour-itus.

corwill

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Mib being a host would make a certain degree of sense . He's been shot at least 7 or 8 times this season and is still ticking. He's far too durable to be human and the writers are surely far too smart for it just to be a case of plot armour-itus.

He seems pretty sprightly for having taken one in the abdomen, and his upper arms and shoulders must be like collanders at this stage.

corwill

errlloyd wrote: »

Spot the typo!

errlloyd

corwill wrote: »

Spot the typo!

Is it Psychological?

Sad Professor

A lot of the scenes of MIB in that profile are from the first season - a year after Juliet killed herself. I could read into that but there's no point - it's just another sloppy mistake. Last week they forgot to take the camera man out of one shot, and you can see extras kidding around in the background of another shot oblivious to the fact that cameras are rolling before vanishing in the next shot. As someone said on Twitter: last season the risk was not thinking enough about the show; this season the risk is thinking too much about it.

Last two episodes are very reminiscent of Lost and its character-centric structure. They mostly avoided Lost-esque flashbacks in the first season and in the early episodes of season 2 where you can see the directors trying to find interesting transitions between the past and the future, but that seems to have been totally abandoned in the recent episodes. There was even a Lost swoosh sound effect in this episode presumedly because the director (Stephen William, one of the weaker Lost directors) thinks Westworld is just Lost 2.0.

I blame this on the fact that Nolan and Joy doesn't seem to have been as involved with this season. Last season between the two of them they wrote or co-wrote nearly every episode and Nolan directed two episodes. This season they've only co-written three episodes while Joy directed one and Nolan hasn't directed any.

It also looks like we won't get get season 3 until mid 2020, another 2 year gap.

reece289

Sad Professor wrote: »

A lot of the scenes of MIB in that profile are from the first season - a year after Juliet killed herself. I could read into that but there's no point - it's just another sloppy mistake. Last week they forgot to take the camera man out of one shot, and you can see extras kidding around in the background of another shot oblivious to the fact that cameras are rolling before vanishing in the next shot. As someone said on Twitter: last season the risk was not thinking enough about the show; this season the risk is thinking too much about it.

Last two episodes are very reminiscent of Lost and its character-centric structure. They mostly avoided Lost-esque flashbacks in the first season and in the early episodes of season 2 where you can see the directors trying to find interesting transitions between the past and the future, but that seems to have been totally abandoned in the recent episodes. There was even a Lost swoosh sound effect in this episode presumedly because the director (Stephen William, one of the weaker Lost directors) thinks Westworld is just Lost 2.0.

I blame this on the fact that Nolan and Joy doesn't seem to have been as involved with this season. Last season between the two of them they wrote or co-wrote nearly every episode and Nolan directed two episodes. This season they've only co-written three episodes while Joy directed one and Nolan hasn't directed any.

It also looks like we won't get get season 3 until mid 2020, another 2 year gap.

The extra's are the bloody guests not giving a **** about the bloodshed in front of them. It's was a great little touch, especially in the emotive story being told.

Also the images don't have to be from the last year. In fact he has regularly done the regular stories in the park, hence the overlap.

Effects

errlloyd wrote: »

• William doesn't know that his wife found the card, but we saw that.

I doubt he left the card in the book and then just never thought to check again if it was still there. Plus hasn't he already mentioned before that his wife and daughter saw who he really was.

errlloyd

Effects wrote: »

I doubt he left the card in the book and then just never thought to check again if it was still there. Plus hasn't he already mentioned before that his wife and daughter saw who he really was.

After he shoots what he thinks is host Emily he says to himself that he knew she was a host because he never told anyone about the card.

He mentioned that his wife knew who he really was - but it wasn't that she had seen his card, she could just see through his facade.

cena

Is he a robot???

reece289

errlloyd wrote: »

After he shoots what he thinks is host Emily he says to himself that he knew she was a host because he never told anyone about the card.

He mentioned that his wife knew who he really was - but it wasn't that she had seen his card, she could just see through his facade.

Thing is Ford gave him the Card. He could have easily given a host another one.

errlloyd

reece289 wrote: »

Thing is Ford gave him the Card. He could have easily given a host another one.

Why would Ford give the host a card without explaining how it got it? Ford would only give the card to a fake Emily host if.

A: He knew Emily had the card.
B: He knew William knew Emily had the card.

Now we KNOW William didn't know that Emily had the card because that is the very thing he thinks gives away Emily's host status.

If Emily was a host attempting to prove her legitimacy to William, then showing him evidence of something that William believes only Ford could have given her would have the exact opposite effect?

GottaGetGatt

There’s a possibility she’s a host but I think She’s dead. Her mother left the card in the music box. There’s only one episode left and I seriously doubt their going to use that to focus on Emily when there are bigger stories in play. When the soldier scanned her, he didn’t even blink in the aknowledgent that she was a host.

Optimus Prime

I think she was a host. First off , Anthony Hopkins could easily have given the card to ed Harris purely because he was planning his final story and wanted to make him think he killed his own daughter down the road.

If she found that card she would have known the jewelry box was not thrown out, possibly her host was created before the real daughter found the box so she and Anthony Hopkins didn’t know about it.

And also to be fair William had a valid point that she found him in the entire park so quickly. One minute she is being chased by a tiger and falls into the river the next minute she finds him with new clothes etc. she is also an expert shot with a gun? Tracks him again to the ghost nation no problem. It’s all too perfect.

reece289

Optimus Prime wrote: »

I think she was a host. First off , Anthony Hopkins could easily have given the card to ed Harris purely because he was planning his final story and wanted to make him think he killed his own daughter down the road.

If she found that card she would have known the jewelry box was not thrown out, possibly her host was created before the real daughter found the box so she and Anthony Hopkins didn’t know about it.

And also to be fair William had a valid point that she found him in the entire park so quickly. One minute she is being chased by a tiger and falls into the river the next minute she finds him with new clothes etc. she is also an expert shot with a gun? Tracks him again to the ghost nation no problem. It’s all too perfect.

Also if she was really human, surely her imprint would be in the forge?

mloc123

Sad Professor wrote: »

The brain scanners are hidden in the cowboy hats? Really?

I'm questioning how hard the writers are thinking about this world building stuff after that reveal. On top of being ridiculous, it just doesn't make sense. What about all the guests we saw who weren't wearing hats? What about the other parks where people don't wear hats? In 30 years has a guest never stepped on or ripped apart a cowboy hat to discover the brain scanner?

I don't think there are brain scanners. She took the hat off thinking that is what he meant, then he said something about how they see everything about people and she put the hat back on knowing no scanner was in it.

Slydice

:eek: Teddy!

Everything about to get real with Delores and Maeve!

jcsoulinger

To me William must have killed his daughter, he was in the process of checking she was a host by cutting open her arm, then he sees the card and is horrified as this makes him think he has just killed his daughter, logically now he must cut open her arm and know for sure, He may have done this and we were not shown it. Afterwards he's still sure she's his human daughter as he's thinking about killing himself, So if it turns out that she's a robot and that in that moment he just decided not to know with out a doubt, then that is just ridiculous.

CastorTroy

Any word on a runtime for the finale? It's usually one of the longest of the season.

So after that ending, I'm wondering how Teddy ended up with all the other bodies in the water