Westworld (HBO/Sky Atlantic) [** Spoilers **]

CastorTroy

FYI There's a post credits scene.

sioda

CastorTroy wrote: »

FYI There's a post credits scene.

Which was probably the best bit if the episode.

Turtwig

sioda wrote: »

Which was probably the best bit if the episode.

I felt it was lame. Unless they can salvage that character's arc next season. Right now death on the show is beginning to mean less and less.

Meh. For a supposedly clever and complex show, the amount of dumb ****e that happens is annoying.

They could write themselves into a corner, and then write themselves straight back out through any number of ways. There's no gravitas to anything, because there's always a million ways they can pull the rug out from under you.

Disappointing.

RobbingBandit

Did Sweet Child O Mine actually play in any of the episodes

Penn

Yeah, definitely feel disappointed after that. The final Dolores reveal, while nice to see Lazlo, was weak. No sign of Clem or the Chinese woman with Sato's upper half either. I guess both could be ways we could see the real Dolores come back.

I still think it was better than last season, but not by much, and neither get close to Season 1. It's just a completely different show now.

I'll still tune in next season, but all hype and anticipation is gone.

Slydice

3.8: Felt like some big pay-offs to the story there with Hale, Delores, Maeve and Caleb.

Overall, I thought it was a good season. Vincent Cassel was a good addition as Serac. The multi-layered story was engaging and the action cool!

CastorTroy wrote: »

FYI There's a post credits scene.

Definitely don't miss it! Hrmm..

Hale-HostMIB vs Maeve-Caleb next season? Still Bernard the wildcard.

Goh that opening scene with Delores and the fly!
Like.. yeah yeah Jonathon, Lisa and all the writers & directors, I haven't forgotten

Slydice wrote: »

Me:
*sits down at table with chess board*
*moves white pawn*

Delores:
*converts all black pieces to queens*

Slydice

Hrmmm.. Stubbs though in season 4? :eek:

Sad Professor

I enjoyed how different this season was, getting to see the outside world, etc. But man, the plotting is so bloody convoluted. Silly and incomprehensible plots aren't necessarily a problem when the characters and story are strong, but they aren't. The characters feel like they are on rails - they do and act as the plot requires them to. And while the story has some big ideas and themes, it never slows down long enough to explore any of them. The world building also constantly changes to suit the plot. And the action scenes are ridiculous, like out of a video game. The body count in the finale alone is crazy. Where do they get these guys prepared to run to their deaths? And yet I will keep watching the show because despite all its issues, I really like the cast and the atmosphere and the kitchen sink of ideas, even if none of it coheres into anything substantial. It's a dumb show pretending to be a smart show. And that's fine.

I just wish they'd stop taking 2 years to make each season. There's nothing on-screen to justify such a long production.

Sudden Valley

Thought this season was a step up from last year but still not great tv. Its obvious the writers only plan at a season at a time and they no great ideas. Its good enough to stick around for another season but am disappointed at who is left (especailly the human characters).

TheValeyard

I really enjoyed it. Very well done I thought.

Make sure to watch after the credits.

alchemist33

Basil3 wrote: »

Meh. For a supposedly clever and complex show, the amount of dumb ****e that happens is annoying.

They could write themselves into a corner, and then write themselves straight back out through any number of ways. There's no gravitas to anything, because there's always a million ways they can pull the rug out from under you.

Disappointing.

Turns out that EMP at the end of the last episode was really strong in one direction and weak in another.

Overall, though, I won't be waiting with bated breath for the next season. It looks like it might be more interesting than s3, but I thought that before s3 too.

Utopia Parkway

I had presumed they were ending it after this season. Bit shocked to see there’s going to be a 4th!

It’s gone from a really good show to a borderline bad show in 3 seasons. Granted it’s virtually a completely new premise now compared to the first two seasons.

I like Aaron Paul but I don’t know what it is about him but he doesn’t fit in this show at all.

Don’t know if I can watch any more but a 4th season is at least 2 years away so maybe some curiousity will have returned by then.

ixoy

So the post-credits scene in S2 - is that set in the same point as when Bernard wakes up in the post-credits scene in S3?

Penn

ixoy wrote: »

So the post-credits scene in S2 - is that set in the same point as when Bernard wakes up in the post-credits scene in S3?

Hard to tell. In a way it feels like they've forgotten about the S2 post-credits scene. The real William has now been killed by Hale's version of William. If by chance in Bernard's far-future timeline the park has somehow created a new host version of William, truer to the original than Hale's version, maybe they're setting up William V William.

Of course, it completely sh*ts on William's entire story for this season, as the park would have only created William from his experiences before this season, which means the realisations from his group therapy session with himself is gone, his knowledge of what Dolores did in S3 is gone etc.

I'm kinda disappointed that they're likely going even further into the future (given the amount of dust etc on Bernard). It was already starting to get too heavy in terms of tech and societal changes that looked cool but had no real purpose. Also, no-one ever entered the room Bernard was in? Stubbs must be a goner (or at the very least that ice has long since melted and he needs his battery charged or something).

Don't know. Just don't know.

ixoy

So the post-credits scene in S2 - is that set in the same point as when Bernard wakes up in the post-credits scene in S3?

Penn

Penn wrote: »

Hard to tell. In a way it feels like they've forgotten about the S2 post-credits scene. The real William has now been killed by Hale's version of William. If by chance in Bernard's far-future timeline the park has somehow created a new host version of William, truer to the original than Hale's version, maybe they're setting up William V William.

Of course, it completely sh*ts on William's entire story for this season, as the park would have only created William from his experiences before this season, which means the realisations from his group therapy session with himself is gone, his knowledge of what Dolores did in S3 is gone etc.

I'm kinda disappointed that they're likely going even further into the future (given the amount of dust etc on Bernard). It was already starting to get too heavy in terms of tech and societal changes that looked cool but had no real purpose. Also, no-one ever entered the room Bernard was in? Stubbs must be a goner (or at the very least that ice has long since melted and he needs his battery charged or something).

Don't know. Just don't know.

Don't worry about it. They can come up with any kind of logic they feel like to explain it all (or raise more unanswered questions).

steve_r

Thought the finale was really really poor. Boring, repetitive Dolores action scenes we've seen before, meeting Maeve again for really wooden dialogue. Caleb taking the longest possible commute before the showdown...

Serac's dialogue was really on the nose and expository when he was talking to Maeve, and he was basically a cartoon villain when speaking to Dolores. It was so blindingly obvious that hooking her up to the machine was going to backfire.

Caleb's latest backstory was just another eye rolling retcon backstory.

Berard getting a delivery out in the wilderness, going into a hibernation at the end. A robot Willian.......

I mean jesus the writing on this show can be so **** at times. They create worlds that are visually spectacular but then feel so empty because of a lack of character development, and using stupid narrative tricks to fool the audience.

I really felt this season they had learned a lesson and that it was a fresh start, and they had something they really wanted to say.

I don't think they have any clue what story they want to say. The post credits scenes strike me as pure Marvel comics "lets put something cool in here and leave it really open ended". It's cheap and lazy storytelling.

I know Devs is not to everyone's taste but Alec Garland clearly knew exactly the story he wanted to tell, and what that would mean to his characters.

The real "prestige" shows Westworld aspires to (Breaking Bad, Sopranos, The Wire etc) all have writing that's far far superior than what's on show here. Even the fan theories have more thought put into them than some of the plot points have.

It's such a waste of an amazing cast, and a production that is visually stunning.

ixoy

Did anyone else here watch 'Person of Interest' and think of Samaritan? That was much better executed and was following some of the same concepts about free will.

Sudden Valley

Person of Interest was much better written but I think it suffered in having an equally wooden lead and a slow first season.

Person of Interest got better as it went along unlike say.... Westworld.

Full_Circle_81

I think this is the season where I finally call it quits. Its visuals are still stunning, and it has itself a wonderful cast, but thats just not enough to keep me interested in a show where I no longer care about a single character in it.

Most of the time, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be rooting for Delores, or hoping someone would stop her. She killed *so* many people willy-nilly this season that its hard to have any kind of sympathy for her. "I just choose to see the beauty in things", bang bang bang, 10 more guys dead.

And with Caleb..........the whole point of Delores choosing him specifically was............so he could make a choice to turn it all off? That was his big contribution to the show? Weak sauce I say!

And Meave felt a shadow of her former self. It didn't really matter how bad-ass she looked in her outfit and sword when she kept getting her ass handed to her time after time. And yet she continued to go into each battle as if she always had the upper hand. It was baffling. And no amount of "honeys or sweeties or darlings" could endear me towards her this time around.

Poor Bernard. Once again he spends most of his time wandering around confused or lost looking. At this point am I supposed to feel sorry for him and his connection to a family that we (and he) now know isn't even his?

And even poorer Stubbs. For a guy whos whole point of being was to be "the heavy", he seemed to be beyond useless whenever the sh1t hit the fan. Thank goodness Bernard was there to patch him up over and over again.

expectationlost

Nolan trying to be all clever, clever...

ixoy

expectationlost wrote: »

Nolan trying to be all clever, clever...

But he did a great job in 'Person of Interest' where they did the same concept of an AI trying to create a planned society. Possibly helped they weren't trying to be as "clever" there with all the "twists" by characters.

al87987

I'm out. Finale was make or break for me and i thought they really shat the bed.

I don't care about Dolores at all, terrible character development, also death means nothing in this show anymore so tough to have any strong reaction to it.

Aaron Paul is a bad actor plain and simple, i like Jessie Pinkman but hes completely one note and adds little.

Couldn't understand Hale being able to hologram herself and stop Dolores with her mind or why for once Serac decided to show up in real form when hologram would do.

Action was woeful and completely OTT.

Loved season 1 and could forgive an underwhelming season 2 but the scales have tipped and its turned into a bad show, surprised they got renewed for season 4 i think the ratings will fall off a cliff.

Galwayguy35

Bit disappointed with the finale but I still think its one of the best shows on the box so will be watching season 4 whenever it happens.

Hard to see it lasting any longer than another season though.

leggo

This episode was, for me, an admission by the writers that this is now more of a big budget action blockbuster with notions than any further attempt at going down in the pantheon of great prestige TV. S1 was a good idea and a clever way of unveiling it with a great cast. S2 was a well-intentioned, and occasionally thrilling, mess that was too ambitious for its own good.

S3 started out well for me but failed hard down the stretch to the point I can only rank this show alongside TWD in having excellent one-off moments and memories, but ultimately getting too convoluted and failing too many times to be considered anything more than a reasonably entertaining way to kill an hour of my life. They did well to simplify the plot and that, plus the highs of past seasons, gave me hope that this was a fighting comeback, but having digested the finale now it seems that the simplification was more adjustment by committee. The finale was twists for the sake of twists, the show’s attempt to get high-minded about concepts such as free will vs determinism becomes laughable when you’ve got Serac being reduced to a Wizard of Oz-style villain writhing on the floor and Caleb somehow understanding all of Rehoboam because Maeve happened to give him a knowing nod. The truth is transparent: Serac was made ordinary because they needed to kill him and didn’t know how, while Caleb understood how to defeat Rehoboam because they needed him to to give the finale a payoff moment. That’s it. Neither outcomes made any sense within the context of the story they’d spent the previous 7 episodes building towards, I feel like I could probably think of better ways to achieve all of the same ends in 5 minutes.

And the worst part is you can live with these convoluted endings where the bad guy gets his comeuppance and the hero automatically knows how to save the day, that’s how every MCU movie ends sure, but with the MCU the characters have charm and likability whereas these just don’t. I’m only still watching because *this* is supposed to be the show that blows my mind with the pseudo-scientific, high-minded concepts...so if they don’t have that, what do they have anymore?!

It was nonsense. Fun nonsense, mind, I can’t say I wasn’t entertained, but I can’t emotionally invest in this anymore. It feels like a waste of my life to theorise week-to-week if this is the standard of payoff we’re going to get. They possibly killed off the show’s two biggest remaining Day 1 characters and it felt like nothing, sure one of them came back to life from last week’s death this week (and still remains alive in Charlores) while the other was just replaced by a more sinister version of himself. When they went for emotion with Bernard, it just felt random because he was just a filler character with no clear direction, so that was laughable too. Do we even care enough about Liam Hemsworth to wonder if he rotted away in the bath? Do they know or even want us to wonder or is he supposed to be so disposable he doesn’t get an on-screen death? And how can a show about determinism feel like the writers are just winging it? This of all shows should get the importance of having a plan with a firm end point everyone is geared towards, since that’s the point of the ****ing show!!

ManOfMystery

There were some strong episodes this season but overall I have to concur, there are some truly baffling writing and story choices which you can easily pick holes in.

It feels at times like they have this amazing concept, but instead of letting the story flow naturally they try and mould it round the characters of Dolores and Maeve. Hence some pretentious and convoluted script at times which essentially means nothing. Full Circle has summed it up well above.

Turning the MIB into some kind of hero was a huge mistake IMO (and I heard him say "I'm going to save the f**king world" one more time I'd have stuck my foot through the TV). He's one of the more intriguing characters in the show and trying to whitewash a lifetime of his transgressions feels like an injustice to the character. Ed Harris was almost gleeful in his portrayal of the more villainous version of the character, they should just have let him run with that and written him into the story in such a way that it wasn't a complete U-turn. Literally dressing him in white instead of black just felt a bit too on the nose too, the audience doesn't need everything spelt out.

ixoy

It's been mentioned before, but again: If you want a much more thoughtful look at the concept of free will vs determinism, watch 'Devs' instead. Unlike 'Westworld' it focuses on character rather than trying to do some huge big picture. It doesn't need to rely on big twists either. Some great music and visuals in it too.

leggo

ixoy wrote: »

It's been mentioned before, but again: If you want a much more thoughtful look at the concept of free will vs determinism, watch 'Devs' instead. Unlike 'Westworld' it focuses on character rather than trying to do some huge big picture. It doesn't need to rely on big twists either. Some great music and visuals in it too.

Following this on BBC and I agree, it’s an excellent show.