Another child dies after faling from an apartment window

Freddy Smelly

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0901/471554-child-dies-after-fall-from-apartment-window/

its about time the government put new legislation that requires all high rise apartment buildings be fitted with safety meshes on windows to prevent more of this from happening

KwackerJack

Poor family, I couldn't live with myself if that happened my little fella!

Question is how was it allowed to happen!

D3PO

whilst I don't want to seem like Im putting the boot in on the parents. Anybody who has children and doesn't fit window locks is negligent.

you don't need legislation for this issue, you just need people to act responsibly.

I do feel for the family though I wouldn't wish the pain and guilt they are going through on anybody.

Paulw

Why does the govt need to take action?

Why can the unit residents not make sure that the windows are secure?

I live in an upper floor unit, and there is one window in the building that I feel is somewhat unsafe for children. So, I make sure that the window is secure.

I feel terrible for the poor parents, and have no idea what they are going through, but you can't expect the govt to remedy every single possible situation that might cause harm to people.

OldNotWIse

Windows/balconies when small children are around just give me the creeps. We went to a friend's house a few months ago for dinner. Brought the dog too. I wouldn't let my dog out on the balcony in case she jumped off, and was a nervous wreck from watching her all the time, yet the mother seemed to think it was ok for her then 2 year old to be out there. :eek:

markpb

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

its about time the government put new legislation that requires all high rise apartment buildings be fitted with safety meshes on windows to prevent more of this from happening

Why stop at high rise apartments, what about the first floor of a house? Should every house have child locks?

Paulw wrote: »

you can't expect the govt to remedy every single possible situation that might cause harm to people.

+1

Freddy Smelly

KwackerJack wrote: »

Poor family, I couldn't live with myself if that happened my little fella!

Question is how was it allowed to happen!

to be fair to the family its very hard keep an eye on toddlers all the time.

Freddy Smelly

Paulw wrote: »

Why does the govt need to take action?

because it would force new build to come with these safety measures already built in from day one. and force existing owners to ensure these are fitted particularily if being let out to tenants

ShaShaBear

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

to be fair to the family its very hard keep an eye on toddlers all the time.

True, but one usually notices when they are not in the building of residence. I'm 25 and my mother still won't let me hang over balconies.

Rule of Toddler #1: A silent toddler is worth checking on. A toddler didn't learn how to open a patio door and walk out and fall over a balcony in the space of a few seconds. Someone wasn't paying attention and while I feel every inch of sadness for this poor family, I imagine the parents know deep down that they should never have allowed the child to play in such a dangerous place.

Paulw

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

because it would force new build to come with these safety measures already built in from day one. and force existing owners to ensure these are fitted particularily if being let out to tenants

So, it's now the landlords fault, not the govt? Why couldn't the tenants fit window locks (with agreement from landlord)?

What if the child fell down the stairs? Should the stairs then be made of a safety material, or have safety netting?

What about kids who fall on the footpath, and end up with a serious brain injury? Should the govt make all footpaths from a soft material? No? Why not? It's a safety issue too.

Where does it stop?

Parents should either watch their kids closer or else ensure that the windows/doors are locked in a way to make the room safe for children to play in.

You can't blame the govt, nor planning requirements, nor building standards.

GarIT

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

to be fair to the family its very hard keep an eye on toddlers all the time.

I hate when people try that excuse, if you have children you arrange that someone is watching what they are doing 24/7 if there isn't they are a bad parent. It doesn't matter what else needs to be done the number 1 priority is that the kids are safe. Under no circumstances should a child ever be in a room or area alone.

markpb

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

to be fair to the family its very hard keep an eye on toddlers all the time.

Hard but mandatory.

GerardKeating

Freddy Smelly wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0901/471554-child-dies-after-fall-from-apartment-window/

its about time the government put new legislation that requires all high rise apartment buildings be fitted with safety meshes on windows to prevent more of this from happening

It is worse than you think.

We were in a Holdiay Home the other week, the ground floor windows were lockable, but the first floor windows were not. This (as stated by the hotel) was for Health and Safety reasons.

Pawwed Rig

GarIT wrote: »

Under no circumstances should a child ever be in a room or area alone.

Ever? Even watching TV or playing in it's room? It is a high burden to expect a parent to watch each of their children's every move for 18 years.

We can only speculate here as to what happened so probably best not to do that when there is a family grieving.

jam_mac_jam

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ever? Even watching TV or playing in it's room? It is a high burden to expect a parent to watch each of their children's every move for 18 years.

We can only speculate here as to what happened so probably best not to do that when there is a family grieving.

No, not 18 years. Maybe five or six years you need to know what they are doing every second, after that they have a little bit of sense to know how not to try and kill themselves all the time.

A child under two should not be watching television or playing in its room on their own. I am very sorry for the family but I am sure they are aware it was their fault.

pwurple

ShaShaBear wrote: »

. A toddler didn't learn how to open a patio door and walk out and fall over a balcony in the space of a few seconds.

I really don't know why you think this is what happened. It wasn't a patio door, it was a regular window. There was no balcony either.

The child went into their sister's room, moved furniture, and then climbed up on the furniture to get to a window. It was also early in the morning. A silent toddler when they are usually sleeping isn't one I would be checking every 5 minutes.


I have locks on the first floor windows in our house, but I leave the keys taped to the frame in case of fire. Falling out isn't the only hazard to be aware of. We need the ability to get out the windows.

Pawwed Rig

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am very sorry for the family but I am sure they are aware it was their fault.

Source please?

ShaShaBear

pwurple wrote: »

I really don't know why you think this is what happened. It wasn't a patio door, it was a regular window. There was no balcony either.

The child went into their sister's room, moved furniture, and then climbed up on the furniture to get to a window. It was also early in the morning. A silent toddler when they are usually sleeping isn't one I would be checking every 5 minutes.


I have locks on the first floor windows in our house, but I leave the keys taped to the frame in case of fire. Falling out isn't the only hazard to be aware of. We need the ability to get out the windows.

Apologies, I got mixed up from another poster mentioning a balcony. However, I am surprised that no-one heard the toddler up and about, and moving furniture. And as you also said, the windows should not have been that easy to open. Locked at least.
I used to be friends with a girl who was the laziest so and so to get up in the morning, and she, in her deepest sleep, even after a night of drinking, could hear her daughter getting up in the morning.

GarIT

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ever? Even watching TV or playing in it's room? It is a high burden to expect a parent to watch each of their children's every move for 18 years.

We can only speculate here as to what happened so probably best not to do that when there is a family grieving.

As another poster said for maybe 5 or 6 years. It's obviously difficult but it has to be done, why would a 2 year old be watching tv? Just keep them with you at all times whatever you are doing.

I'm not speculating anything, the reports from RTE clearly suggest the child was unsupervised.

jimmycrackcorm

We have a child sleeping in our 3 bed semi-d box room. Building regulations meant that this room could not have a lockable window as it is seemingly intended as an escape route.

We've changed it to a lockable window to avoid the easy scenario of a child falling out but if there ever was an inspection (e.g. In the event of a fire) I guess we could be could be held accountable.

It seemed stage to me at the time because the more obvious escape is the back room window over the kitchen extension

jam_mac_jam

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Source please?

Source, for what? my opinion? I will link to my brain will I?

DellyBelly

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Source please?

Why would you want to see a source for a person't opinion. I think this seems to be the cool thing to do these days. IF you don't agree with something people seem to quote the following - source?

vitani

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Apologies, I got mixed up from another poster mentioning a balcony. However, I am surprised that no-one heard the toddler up and about, and moving furniture. And as you also said, the windows should not have been that easy to open. Locked at least.
I used to be friends with a girl who was the laziest so and so to get up in the morning, and she, in her deepest sleep, even after a night of drinking, could hear her daughter getting up in the morning.

I've had nights where I'm so exhausted that my child has been chatting away in her cot for an hour, in the same room as me, and I haven't heard her. It's hardly something to be surprised about. If you're asleep, you're asleep. You can't control what wakes you.

ShaShaBear

vitani wrote: »

I've had nights where I'm so exhausted that my child has been chatting away in her cot for an hour, in the same room as me, and I haven't heard her. It's hardly something to be surprised about. If you're asleep, you're asleep. You can't control what wakes you.

But your child would be pretty safe in her cot, yeah?

I'm not having an issue believing you can sleep longer than your child. I'm having trouble believing you could sleep through your child crawling out of their room, into their brother's room, moving furniture, climbing up on the furniture, opening a window, climbing out of the window and falling out of the window - all without waking a parent or the brother.

Pawwed Rig

DellyBelly wrote: »

Why would you want to see a source for a person't opinion.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Source, for what? my opinion? I will link to my brain will I?

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I am very sorry for the family but I am sure they are aware it was their fault.

This is not an opinion. This is a statement. An opinion would be 'I believe it may have been their fault even though I have no evidence whatsover'.

To write a statement like that where an investigation (by people with actual facts) has yet to be concluded is deeply unfair to all involved in this incident.

I remember when we were young we used to get up at about 6am on a Saturday to watch kids TV. By the comments here it would seem my parents were completely negligent for not getting up at the same time and watching us constantly.
We also used to go outside and play with others on the street where I now realise that the whole street had negligent parents as we weren't followed around all day by a troupe of adults.

jam_mac_jam

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This is not an opinion. This is a statement. An opinion would be 'I believe it may have been their fault even though I have no evidence whatsover'.

To write a statement like that where an investigation (by people with actual facts) has yet to be concluded is deeply unfair to all involved in this incident.

I remember when we were young we used to get up at about 6am on a Saturday to watch kids TV. By the comments here it would seem my parents were completely negligent for not getting up at the same time and watching us constantly.
We also used to go outside and play with others on the street where I now realise that the whole street had negligent parents as we weren't followed around all day by a troupe of adults.

Its obviously an opinion. Which I am perfectly entitled to have on a discussion board.

And we are talking about a child under two, which I am very sure your parents didnt allow out on their own or in fact sit watching cartoons. Maybe an older child but not one that age.

ShaShaBear

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

We also used to go outside and play with others on the street where I now realise that the whole street had negligent parents as we weren't followed around all day by a troupe of adults.

If you were allowed to go out and play with others on the street at 22 months of age with no supervision, I would be a bit skeptical - yeah

Pawwed Rig

ShaShaBear wrote: »

If you were allowed to go out and play with others on the street at 22 months of age with no supervision, I would be a bit skeptical - yeah

Please see the conversation below in particular I will draw your attention to the following post. The conversation has moved on from 22 month olds.

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Maybe five or six years you need to know what they are doing every second, after that they have a little bit of sense to know how not to try and kill themselves all the time.

Anyway I think we can leave it there as this conversation no longer relates to accommodation and property. We can agree to differ on this one

ted1

GarIT wrote: »

I hate when people try that excuse, if you have children you arrange that someone is watching what they are doing 24/7 if there isn't they are a bad parent. It doesn't matter what else needs to be done the number 1 priority is that the kids are safe. Under no circumstances should a child ever be in a room or area alone.

you obviousily don't have kids.
toddlers are very active,when my girls were 18 months they were running around chatting away. there about 15 months apart. we live in semi d adn they would often be in a different room, or if the back door is open they may be out the back while we are in the kitchen. on the odd occasion if the stair gate is left open, they may sneak off to their bedroom to pay with other toys.

expecting them to be in the saem room 24/7 is very niave and not at all practical.

ted1

GerardKeating wrote: »

It is worse than you think.

We were in a Holdiay Home the other week, the ground floor windows were lockable, but the first floor windows were not. This (as stated by the hotel) was for Health and Safety reasons.

it againest current legilsation to be able to lock first floor windows, they are considered emergency exits.

jmayo

GarIT wrote: »

I hate when people try that excuse, if you have children you arrange that someone is watching what they are doing 24/7 if there isn't they are a bad parent. It doesn't matter what else needs to be done the number 1 priority is that the kids are safe. Under no circumstances should a child ever be in a room or area alone.

Can I ask if you have or had children ?
And I don't care if the question is seen as being a stock question to ask when debating childcare.
If someone is going to make such sure fire comments on how to raise kids then I think they should have some experience in the matter.
Otherwise it is like listening to marriage guidance advise from a catholic priest.

If you have had children and have been able to keep them in sight 24/7 and never leave them in a room alone, then I raise my hat to you and indeed I think every parent in the world would do the same.
Or maybe you have a nanny to look after such concerns ?

GarIT wrote: »

As another poster said for maybe 5 or 6 years. It's obviously difficult but it has to be done, why would a 2 year old be watching tv? Just keep them with you at all times whatever you are doing.

Meanwhile in the real world parents try and live.:rolleyes:
Yeah I find toddlers love being in the bathroom whilst we go to the toilet.
And shure can't they have a great time playing with the toilet brush.

GarIT wrote: »

I'm not speculating anything, the reports from RTE clearly suggest the child was unsupervised.

There has been an awful lot of speculation going around here and jumping to some awful conclusions.
We have had the parents being blamed, and not in a very nice way, by some around here.
It is disgraceful.
They have enough to go through at the moment.