Football and hurling All Stars 2013

ProudDUB

The vast majority of CO'Cs score came from frees didn't they? Think that may have counted against him getting a gong this year.

Bernard was far and away the best player in the country, for the first 4-5 rounds of the league. Then he got injured and struggled to regain his spring time form, but I still think he deserves an All Star for his entire year, not just for his All Ireland final haul of goals.

Given that, I'd love to see three rounds of voting for the All Stars, so that a players form throughout the entire year is judged, not just a couple of games in August or September. There could be one round after the club season is over, the second when the league ends and, the third after the All Ireland champo is over.

They could weight it so that the AI champo carries a bigger % of a players over all vote, but his play over the entire year is factored in. That seems fairer to me imo. It also stops lazy voters from not doing their research and, only giving a player a vote because of their reputation, or their performance in a big game in August/September that got a lot of media coverage.

yop

ProudDUB wrote: »

The vast majority of CO'Cs score came from frees didn't they? Think that may have counted against him.

Bernards was far and away the best player in the country for the first 4-5 rounds of the league. Then he got injured and struggled to regain his spring time form, but I still think he deserves an All Star for his entire year, not just for his All Ireland final haul of goals.

Given that, I'd love to see three rounds of voting for the All Stars, so that a players form throughout the entire year is judged, not just a couple of games in August or September. There could be one after the club season is over, the second when the league ends and the third after the All Ireland champo is over. They could weight it so that the AI champo carries a bigger % of a players over all vote, but his play over the entire year is factored in.

Still has to get the scores regardless, if you win an AI final where you score 12 frees and 2 from play, does it mean that you deserve it less than the team who win it with 12 from play and 2 from frees...?
He went a ridiculous period of time without missing a single freekick, something like 3 championship games.

Brogan deserved his without a doubt, won the AI final on his own.

Stoner

corny wrote: »

McCaffrey and AOS definitely don't deserve All Stars.

Pleased at the picks of the two corner forwards and the goalkeeper but i'd have a different combination in every other line.

I agree, they didn't deserve them for the same reasons, good early on, not so good for the bigger games.

AOS getting one ahead of SOS was unfair.

yop

Stoner wrote: »

I agree, they didn't deserve them for the same reasons, good early on, not so good for the bigger games.

AOS getting one ahead of SOS was unfair.

But its typical how the flair win outs on the workhorse. Like a diesel and a ferrari

ProudDUB

yop wrote: »

Still has to get the scores regardless, if you win an AI final where you score 12 frees and 2 from play, does it mean that you deserve it less than the team who win it with 12 from play and 2 from frees...?

If the team that scored 12 from play has one player that scored the majority of them, I think that that player is more likely to get peoples attention than the free taker on the other side. And people are going to vote more for him for things like the All Stars, as they would view scoring 8 points from play as being harder and requiring more skill, than scoring 12 from frees.

yop

ProudDUB wrote: »

If the team that scored 12 from play has one player that scored the majority of them, I think that that player is more likely to get peoples attention than the free taker on the other side. And people are going to vote more for him for things like the All Stars, as they would view scoring 8 points from play as being harder and requiring more skill, than scoring 12 from frees.

There can be more pressure and skill in free taking than scoring from play, if free-taking was such a non skill or not recognised then why do Dublin bring Cluxton up if there "from play" scorers are under less pressure?
Free taking is a great skill, hence why there are on a couple on each team who can do it.
He was the top scorer in the championship, regardless if he didn't win the AI, his haul during the championship deserved an all-star.
2011 copper top scorer, 2010 top scorer, 2012 McFadden top scorer, 2013 COC top scorer.
Yet all the 3 before him get All-stars.

ProudDUB

Yop, I said that scoring from play required more skill & was harder than scoring one from a free. I did not say that scoring a point from a free was not hard, or required no skill at all. Nor did I say that they were not deserving of recognition. Of course they are.

However, a free taker kicks from a placed ball on the ground, or in his hands that no one is trying to take from him, or tackle him, or obstruct him while he is kicking the ball. He also has plenty of time to stop and think about what he wants to do, measure the wind, the distance between him and the posts, consider the angles etc etc.

A player has none of that when he kicks from play. It is usually a split second decision and he usually has other players doing their dammdest to stop him from going about his business. That makes scoring from play harder over all imo. If it wasn't, why are there generally far more wides in a game than there are missed frees?

Stoner

yop wrote: »

There can be more pressure and skill in free taking than scoring from play, if free-taking was such a non skill or not recognised then why do Dublin bring Cluxton up if there "from play" scorers are under less pressure?
Free taking is a great skill, hence why there are on a couple on each team who can do it.
He was the top scorer in the championship, regardless if he didn't win the AI, his haul during the championship deserved an all-star.
2011 copper top scorer, 2010 top scorer, 2012 McFadden top scorer, 2013 COC top scorer.
Yet all the 3 before him get All-stars.

TBH McFadden and Cooper were super from play. McFadden last year was fantastic, more influential than any forward this year IMO, Cooper is a legend, his eight all star, those lads did more than O'Conner did this year, the top scorer badge is not a fair barometer.

Didn't B Brogan finish top scorer in 2010, if so he also played a lot better in 2010 than O'Conner did this year

I think he deserved the young player of the year again though.

Red Crow

When I saw that Mikey Cahill didn't get nominated then I haven't really bothered following the rest of this farce.

Found it hard to select a footballer of the year. I thought before the Tyrone game that AOS would of been a shoe in but he was poor since. Definitely didn't think MDMA deserved to be footballer of the year. Maybe I just don't get him but I think his lung bursting runs through the middle are clouding peoples judgements. I thought he wasn't in any way spectacular. Maybe it's just me.

Stoner

Red Crow wrote: »

When I saw that Mikey Cahill didn't get nominated then I haven't really bothered following the rest of this farce.

Found it hard to select a footballer of the year. I thought before the Tyrone game that AOS would of been a shoe in but he was poor since. Definitely didn't think MDMA deserved to be footballer of the year. Maybe I just don't get him but I think his lung bursting runs through the middle are clouding peoples judgements. I thought he wasn't in any way spectacular. Maybe it's just me.

It's not really just his runs IMO, it's the fact that he won his midfield battles, he did better than most expected against an experienced Cork set up, he did well against Kerry and he did the business against a decent Mayo set up in the final.

He did his job in the three biggest game of his run, I think that's why he got it.

I had AOS as a definite up to Tyrone too.

yop

ProudDUB wrote: »

Yop, I said that scoring from play required more skill & was harder than scoring one from a free. I did not say that scoring a point from a free was not hard, or required no skill at all. Nor did I say that they were not deserving of recognition. Of course they are.

However, a free taker kicks from a placed ball on the ground, or in his hands that no one is trying to take from him, or tackle him, or obstruct him while he is kicking the ball. He also has plenty of time to stop and think about what he wants to do, measure the wind, the distance between him and the posts, consider the angles etc etc.

A player has none of that when he kicks from play. It is usually a split second decision and he usually has other players doing their dammdest to stop him from going about his business. That makes it harder over all. If it wasn't, why are there generally far more wides in a game than their are missed frees?

Because the free-takers are more skillful

Still can't agree with the decision for the top scorer of the championship not to get an all-star. Jonny Doyle picked one up when his team got knocked out in the QF's.
As for free takers in AI finals, James Masters, 2007 final, got 3 points. Top scorer in championship. Didn't get an award.

yop

Stoner wrote: »

TBH McFadden and Cooper were super from play. McFadden last year was fantastic, more influential than any forward this year IMO, Cooper is a legend, his eight all star, those lads did more than O'Conner did this year, the top scorer badge is not a fair barometer.

Didn't B Brogan finish top scorer in 2010, if so he also played a lot better in 2010 than O'Conner did this year

I think he deserved the young player of the year again though.

Sorry I left out the text for 2010 It was Jonny Doyle.

Spanish Johnny

Hard call with O'Connor. His goals bar one/two were tap ins. That said you can argue that he was in the right place at the right time which IMO does take a level of positioning and intelligence too. If he got a hatrick against Galway or Roscommon in a Connacht Final I have a small feeling he may be an All Star tonight.

Still wouldn't pick him as a top top forward in the country for some reason though.

Stoner

yop wrote: »

Sorry I left out the text for 2010 It was Jonny Doyle.

Ah just did a look up, correct he got 52 from 8 games scoring average of 6.5 per game the third highest average per game,
Brogan got 51 from 6 games scoring average of 8.5 per game the second highest average per game .

I guess that brings O'Conner closer to getting the all star alright, Doyle did score a lot from frees, but I still think of all your three examples O'Conner contributes the least from play, but I understand that's not your point.

Fr Tod Umptious

I think people are splitting hairs about whether O' Connor does not deserve one because of his placed ball to open play scoring ratio etc.

I think he deserves one ahead of O' Donoughe or McManus full stop

Consider this hypothetical situation

After O'Connor kicked his last score in the All Ireland final to bring Mayo within a point of Dublin, Mayo went on to score two more points, lets say from Dillon and Conroy, and Mayo won the All Ireland.

Would Bernard Brogan still win an All Star ? - Yes deservedly so
Would O' Donoughe and McManus ? - I don't think so, I think O'Connor would win one instead of one of them

dastardly00

premierstone wrote: »

I thought Hogan was excellent in the League and was also KK's only threat up front in the championship.

Ah no way should Richie Hogan have got an All-Star. He was so hot-and-cold this year, and not a patch on his performances from other years. He may have been our most threatening forward this summer, but that was because the rest were all performing so poorly.

tony glenn

Sorry to jump in on this thread but I need advice on how to start a new thread? The help page says hit the new thread icon, but I can't find one on my home page. Apologies again for interrupting, I can only get on to Boards by replying to a thread, but I can't work out how to start my own.....

Gerry91

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think people are splitting hairs about whether O' Connor does not deserve one because of his placed ball to open play scoring ratio etc.

I think he deserves one ahead of O' Donoughe or McManus full stop

Consider this hypothetical situation

After O'Connor kicked his last score in the All Ireland final to bring Mayo within a point of Dublin, Mayo went on to score two more points, lets say from Dillon and Conroy, and Mayo won the All Ireland.

Would Bernard Brogan still win an All Star ? - Yes deservedly so
Would O' Donoughe and McManus ? - I don't think so, I think O'Connor would win one instead of one of them

Exactly! And had O'Connor kicked a goal instead of a point with that last free, I'd be fairly certain Lee Keegan would have been elevated to POTY (although he'd have done nothing different in this hypothetical scenario than what he did in reality), and Mayo would have picked up about three more All Stars.

I never take them seriously myself so I'm not one bit upset Cillian didn't get one, though it's disappointing enough for the lad himself perhaps. When a guy who played one half's football at centre back gets an All Star there, just to accomodate him when there could have been no qualms if he actually got one midfield, you know they're not too be getting too upset about!

Gerry91

Slattsy wrote: »

AOS

The player that didnt turn up for the semi final or final. Token.

I've no idea why you're acting surprised, he needn't have turned up to the last two games and he was a shoe in after that Donegal match.

He was one of the most talked about players all summer- that's enough generally.

I wouldn't have given him one myself but lets be honest there was no hope he wasn't getting one and they even moved CS back to cb to ensure he didn't lose out

Gerry91

While I don't take them all that seriously one thing that would have infuriated me would be McCaffrey getting one over Boyle. I really feared he might.

Not a hope he deserved YPOTY but it's voted by fellow players afaik and he was well talked about all year so I can see how he got it. Cillian also got 2 in fairness, funnily enough he was miles better this year than last but there ya go

shrewdness

Seems to be a subject which has divided opinion here but I think they got the full forward line spot on. Although he scored 8 frees in the final I just think O'Connor needed to do a bit more to secure an all-star. When it came down to the last game of the year there wasn't much between the main contenders for the full-forward line, and O'Connor didn't offer enough from play for me. Mind you, if he had been fit for all the Croke Park games I'm sure he would have won one, so he is unfortunate in that regard.

seligehgit

yop wrote: »

COC robbed, AOS lucky. 8 points in an AI final regardless if he put them over from play or from frees is still a large haul. All-Stars are beginning to become a little embarrassing at this stage.

Let's not forget Yop COC was severely hampered by a serious shoulder injury for the majority of the year too,makes his achievement all the greater as top scorer and he missed the majority of the quarter final and the semi final.Probably counted against him as much as the opposition he racked up his scores against in Connaught.
Speaking of which it was'nt Mayo's fault that last year's All Ireland winners were in disarray,Mayo were up for it big time and ruthlessly went about the job of winning the game.

theoneeyedman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

After O'Connor kicked his last score in the All Ireland final to bring Mayo within a point of Dublin, Mayo went on to score two more points, lets say from Dillon and Conroy, and Mayo won

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.....
The season is full of hypothetical.
I'm not a huge admirer of O'connor, an excellent free taker but his overall play is ordinary enough. He also missed a couple early in the all Ireland .
These awards are a bit of a nonsense really, but I'm a little surprised ocarroll at full back not arousing some discussion. He was badly exposed in a couple of games ( meath and cork spring to mind) and if he is the best full back in the country Pat Lyndsay and Milk Lyonshall will be turning in their graves ( football graves now....I know they are both mad alive)

Mr. Incognito

Colm cooper was top scorer one year recently and didn't
Even get a nomination so they have form

ProudDUB

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think people are splitting hairs about whether O' Connor does not deserve one because of his placed ball to open play scoring ratio etc.

I think he deserves one ahead of O' Donoughe or McManus full stop

Consider this hypothetical situation

After O'Connor kicked his last score in the All Ireland final to bring Mayo within a point of Dublin, Mayo went on to score two more points, lets say from Dillon and Conroy, and Mayo won the All Ireland.

Would Bernard Brogan still win an All Star ? - Yes deservedly so
Would O' Donoughe and McManus ? - I don't think so, I think O'Connor would win one instead of one of them

But that didn't happen and Mayo didn't win the All Ireland. You can't deal in hypotheticals when discussing things like this.

I think that when it comes to voting for forwards in particular, the thought of "did he do what it took to get his team over the line in games when it mattered the most" is in the back of voters minds. Can you really say that about COC as the AI final was in its final minutes? I don't think you can.

An uncharitable person might even say that his poor mismanagement of the clock cost Mayo an All Ireland, or at least a shot at a replay. You can't really say that about the others players who won or were nominated. I am not saying that is right or even fair to say something like that that about a 21 year old kid, but if its in peoples heads & it affects their voting, there is not much we can do to change it.

tony glenn wrote: »

Sorry to jump in on this thread but I need advice on how to start a new thread? The help page says hit the new thread icon, but I can't find one on my home page. Apologies again for interrupting, I can only get on to Boards by replying to a thread, but I can't work out how to start my own.....

The New Topic button is in the upper left hand corner of the GAA home page. If you are on a lap top, its below the banner ad and above the listings of individual threads. Dunno where it is on a mobile device.

You only have 11 posts. It is possible that you only have permission to read and reply to posts in existing threads, but not to start a new one. Some forums only give you access to start new topics, once you have a set number of posts in existing ones. I don't know if Boards does that. Perhaps the Help page may have some info on it.

washman3

Slattsy wrote: »

AOS

The player that didnt turn up for the semi final or final. Token.

Should not have been picked, plain and simple. Had a very good game V Donegal but that was it. Anonymous in both semi and A.I. final games.
Brother Seamus should clearly have received this award, far superior team player. Aidan plays mainly for personal accolades like all-stars and POTY.
Seems he was now replaced Emmet Bolton as the media darling.
Contrast this decision with the one that denied Limericks John Galvin an award for several years, a player that stood head and shoulders above the rest even when his team were being beaten.

Spanish Johnny

Also, is there any real need to announce one set of All Stars early each year? Not sure what the reasoning is? It doesn't really make the night go quicker or anything - they still have to receive them. Think it takes away the element of excitement a little.

tony glenn

Can't find the 'new thread' advice post, but thanks for the tip. No luck,
I'll cpntact Boards direct. Cheers.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Colm cooper was top scorer one year recently and didn't
Even get a nomination so they have form

Interesting that, in 2009 as well, a year they won the All Ireland.

thesultan

They should go back to picking three players in each position and one then from that very one

seligehgit

theoneeyedman wrote: »

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.....
The season is full of hypothetical.
I'm not a huge admirer of O'connor, an excellent free taker but his overall play is ordinary enough. He also missed a couple early in the all Ireland .
These awards are a bit of a nonsense really, but I'm a little surprised ocarroll at full back not arousing some discussion. He was badly exposed in a couple of games ( meath and cork spring to mind) and if he is the best full back in the country Pat Lyndsay and Milk Lyonshall will be turning in their graves ( football graves now....I know they are both mad alive)

To be fair his general play has improved,if I recall he was a tad fortunate to win YPOTY last year.

Spanish Johnny

thesultan wrote: »

They should go back to picking three players in each position and one then from that very one

Given the way the game has gone with the qualifiers surely they could select an All Star panel at this stage? I get that traditionalists, etc would says it's the best 15, etc, etc. but realistically could you not pick 8/9 defenders and forwards and 3/4 midfielders. It would encompass more players from weaker counties and maybe account for league and all ireland club performances??

Fiery biscuits

For what it's worth..
1. Cluxton
2. Colin Walshe
3. Rory O' Carroll
4. Keith Higgins
5. James Mc Carthy
6. Colm Boyle (didn't technically play here but these three were the best three IMO
7. Lee Keegan
8. MDMA
9. Sean Cavanagh
10. Paul Flynn
11. Gooch
12. Diarmuid Conolly
13. Conor Mc Manus
14. Bernard Brogan
15. James O Donaghue

Honorable mentions to Dessie mone and Cian Mackey. I don't think Aidan O Shea was consistent enough in his performances. He had a great game against Donegal but after it he was largely anonymous and I agree with other posters that his brother had a better year! MDMA and Cavanagh the two best midfielders this year. COC is a good player and was maybe hampered by the injury but he doesn't do enough from play at this moment in time. Take out the two Hatricks against a weak side and a disjointed team and he didn't score consistently enough from play and up until now he hasn't in the past either. I'm sure it will come for him as he is a fine player!

keeponhurling

On the Cillian O'Connor thing, in hurling Shane O'Donnell got 6 goals in the championship, including hat trick in the final, but nobody expected him to get an All Star.
Looking at who was picked ahead of him, I don't think COC can have many complaints

harpsman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think people are splitting hairs about whether O' Connor does not deserve one because of his placed ball to open play scoring ratio etc.

I think he deserves one ahead of O' Donoughe or McManus full stop

Consider this hypothetical situation

After O'Connor kicked his last score in the All Ireland final to bring Mayo within a point of Dublin, Mayo went on to score two more points, lets say from Dillon and Conroy, and Mayo won the All Ireland.

Would Bernard Brogan still win an All Star ? - Yes deservedly so
Would O' Donoughe and McManus ? - I don't think so, I think O'Connor would win one instead of one of them

Lol. Maybe if he hadnt wasted 4 minutes on two 20 yard frees they might have got those two points. But one of them from Alan Dillon? Seriously? I said before i didnt think oconnor should get one so im glad selectors agreed! Difficult year to judge individual mayo players as they had 4 walkovers and played quite poorly in the other 2 games. Thought connolly had a decent shout too.

Kerrydude1981

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/gaa-stars-left-standing-and-hungry-at-all-stars-awards-29741212.html

Wtf is this carry on about,these players make millions for the GAA and they get treated like this

Darkest Horse

Might have been posted already but on the indo website there is a picture of the two players of the year with their awards and the mistaken photo caption:

*** IMAGE EMBARGOED ***Strictly no publication until 9pm 8th November 20138 November 2013; Dublin footballer Michael Darragh Macauley, left, and Clare hurler Tony Kelly with their 2013 GAA GPA All-Star Player of the Year awards, at the GAA GPA All-Star Awards 2013, Sponsored by Opel. Croke Park, Dublin. Picture credit: Stephen McCarthy / SPORTSFILE

Does that mean the guys knew they were getting their awards before the ceremony?

aveytare

Yeah I thought that too when I saw the picture of them holding their awards when it was still daytime, not sure if that's the picture you're referring to.

Darkest Horse

aveytare wrote: »

Yeah I thought that too when I saw the picture of them holding their awards when it was still daytime, not sure if that's the picture you're referring to.

Yeah, that's the one. It seems they did know.

ProudDUB

Yeah, I saw that too. Big screw up by the photo agency to let the cat out of the bag like that.

thinkstoomuch1

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/gaa-stars-left-standing-and-hungry-at-all-stars-awards-29741212.html

Wtf is this carry on about,these players make millions for the GAA and they get treated like this

Typical GAA top table shambles.The guys that pour sweat ,blood and tears ,on the ptich are treated appalling while some of the coroporte "prawn sandwich brigade that would not have a clue about the game are treated like kings.

All the gaa want is the money ,they don't care about who makes it for them.


Finger food, what a laugh.I thought this only happened in Cork ,did not think it would happen hear.

rebel girl 15

Yeah, they do know about player of the year ones, its to avoid the lads having to travel back again to do the promotional shots with the gear on, like in the photo below

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/808585/

Kerrydude1981

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Typical GAA top table shambles.The guys that pour sweat ,blood and tears ,on the ptich are treated appalling while some of the coroporte "prawn sandwich brigade that would not have a clue about the game are treated like kings.

All the gaa want is the money ,they don't care about who makes it for them.


Finger food, what a laugh.I thought this only happened in Cork ,did not think it would happen hear.

If something like that happened at a club social you wouldn't take too much notice,you would probably laugh at it,but this is the All Stars.

thinkstoomuch1

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

If something like that happened at a club social you wouldn't take too much notice,you would probably laugh at it,but this is the All Stars.

Absoultety .
Suprising they did'nt book macdonalds for the players ,and say just come and collect the awards.At least they would probably have got seating their.

That with the league farce, clouds what should been a truly breathtaking year.
Only the GAA could do something like that.

eigrod

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Typical GAA top table shambles.The guys that pour sweat ,blood and tears ,on the ptich are treated appalling while some of the coroporte "prawn sandwich brigade that would not have a clue about the game are treated like kings.

All the gaa want is the money ,they don't care about who makes it for them.


Finger food, what a laugh.I thought this only happened in Cork ,did not think it would happen hear.

Except the GPA was involved in the organisation of the event aswell so the GAA can't be solely held responsible. Those players' own representatives screwed up here aswell.

ProudDUB

It the fact that the attendees had to PAY for their food that gets me. I mean WTF???

If they don't want to do a sit down meal for every one, that's fair enough. Perhaps they didn't have the space. (But seeing as it's Croker Park, I find that hard to believe.) But I have been to plenty of big events for over 1000 people, where there was no sit down meal, but people were well fed by several well stocked buffet stations, dotted around the place. People could help themselves to a variety of foods & sit at tables dotted around the place. But to make people PAY for that food, is bloody ridiculous.

Yurt

Ya the players found out the day of the awards that they had one.But they didn't know about the Young player of the year awards.

yop

wow, seems like a right shambles.

rebel girl 15

How many are at the GAA coaching conference every year?? I was there 2 years ago and the food was superb, sometimes tough to find seating but there was more space where tables could have been placed. Croke Park have give experience in catering for those crowds, so I don't understand how it went so wrong. They knew how many tickets were sold and how many to cater for