Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

extra gravy

Looks like a flu was also a factor. Ozil has been left out of Germany squad because of it and Gnabry and Arteta have it too.

gandalf

extra gravy wrote: »

Looks like a flu was also a factor. Ozil has been left out of Germany squad because of it and Gnabry and Arteta have it too.

Well that's good news in a way at least he will get an elongated rest. Would explain his lackluster display if he was suffering from the flu.

Pepe LeFrits

I like Wenger and Sagna's post match comments. Basically, they know they didn't produce and they're pissed with themselves. Hopefully it'll be the catalyst for a strong response.

Pepe LeFrits

I thought Sagna had a good game mind you. He really has been back to his best this season. He's a monster and I'll be gutted if he leaves in the summer.

Ciaran_B

Sagna had his best game for ages. His crosses were superb especially the two near the end.

wonga77

How do the tabloids get away with this every week?

http://ladyarse.co.uk/2013/11/ozil-doesnt-say-well-end-uniteds-season-despite-sun-headline/

Just An Opinion

wonga77 wrote: »

How do the tabloids get away with this every week?

http://ladyarse.co.uk/2013/11/ozil-doesnt-say-well-end-uniteds-season-despite-sun-headline/

Well the Sun are responsible for a lot worse than them kind of mickey mouse headlines. I don't know how anyone buys that rag.

ugsparky

The Sun, The Mail ... print anything but the truth ... fat overfed and bone idol lazy journalist's (hacks tbh) ... rehashed old stories and quotes taken out of context ... the comments at the end of the articles are more informative ... and of course all heavily biased towards English players performances ... 1966 et al

greendom

Ozil getting a rest from the internationals is brilliant news. Thank you German FA. I'd be a little worried if I was a Southampton fan.

Drexel

greendom wrote: »

Ozil getting a rest from the internationals is brilliant news. Thank you German FA. I'd be a little worried if I was a Southampton fan.

Yup with him rested and Wally back we should be good to go. Southampton are playing a high line and have been doing it well but with the two of them we could exploit it

Marty McFly

gosplan wrote: »

Fatigue was absolutely a factor. It's amazing how often people rant about 'how we played' or 'attitude' after an away game following midweek CL without ever spotting the pattern.

Look at how all the CL teams did this weekend. Yes Man U won but they didn't perform that brilliantly, they just got their noses in front and we couldn't respond. Full credit to them and everything but they also had the luxury of resting some key people midweek and being at home.

The fatigue thing is always always overstated, these are professional athletes with the best dieticians and physio etc in the world four days after a game there should and would not be any fatigue in players at all.

What happened against United was a mental block not fatigue, if it was fatigue we wouldn't have improved in the 2nd half.

What were Wenger and Sagna post match comments?

Spanish Johnny

jonny666 wrote: »

Yup with him rested and Wally back we should be good to go. Southampton are playing a high line and have been doing it well but with the two of them we could exploit it

Ozil really looks like he needs some rest. Can't wait to see him and Walcott team up again. Our lack of width makes us very predictable and Southampton is going to a very difficult fixture. I think one goal could decide it.

As someone mentioned earlier 10 points out of next 4 games v Southampton, Cardiff, Hull and Everton would be acceptable before the back to back games against Chelsea and City.

gandalf

Fatigue coupled with a bug that half the team appears to have had would go a long way to explaining some of the below par performances yesterday. I suppose the real test is how do they react to this. In the past the wheels would fall off our wagon. I have a feeling this time Southampton might just be reaping the whirlwind of yesterdays dent in the season. (Hopefully with some of the injured back in action as well!).

Gringo180

Gutted over yesterdays defeat if its one team I want to beat all season its Utd and that toerag Van Mercenary. Missing some pace in the side cant wait till Walcott is back.

ironkiwi

Lets hope this rest will do Ozil good, I for one can't wait to see him sparkle into life. The form he showed in his first game was unbelievable and since then he has been average. The way he has been missing in certain periods of games since then has been worrying and maybe this is down to settling in period. This little break will be great for him.

jonneymendoza

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Its always been a psychological thing IMO, for Arsenal, when it comes to Man United, its like an inferiority thing that comes into play. We need to shake that off, and believe. Its only then, maybe, we will return to the glory days, when that belief was there in abundance

So ozil is scared of United? why would he be when his hardly played against them? Fact is the last time he didm RM spanked them so what fear?

All i am saying is that some of our players dont have a reason to show fear else if they do, get the hell out of arsenal as thats totally unacceptable.

Ramsey having a fear of playing against stoke after his horror tackle is valid but having a fear playing against united is not.

I dont pay over £50 a ticket to watch players play with fear.

gosplan

Marty McFly wrote: »

The fatigue thing is always always overstated, these are professional athletes with the best dieticians and physio etc in the world four days after a game there should and would not be any fatigue in players at all.

What happened against United was a mental block not fatigue, if it was fatigue we wouldn't have improved in the 2nd half.

What were Wenger and Sagna post match comments?

So the whole rotation thing is nonsense?

Quixoticelixer

jonneymendoza wrote: »

So ozil is scared of United? why would he be when his hardly played against them? Fact is the last time he didm RM spanked them so what fear?

All i am saying is that some of our players dont have a reason to show fear else if they do, get the hell out of arsenal as thats totally unacceptable.

Ramsey having a fear of playing against stoke after his horror tackle is valid but having a fear playing against united is not.

I dont pay over £50 a ticket to watch players play with fear.

Ozil isn't "afraid", the team is, and Ozil is part of the team. United are a bogey team, we very rarely get anything off them, that can't be said for City or Chelsea or any other team, we consistently under achieve against them, we usually perform against everyone else.

And it's not "fear" as such, it's just some sort of mental block. Like how Tottenham couldn't beat us for 10 or 11 years recently, or how Chelsea went 8 or so years without beating us up to that Champions League game in 2004. I don't know why this type of mental block happens!

Courtesy Flush

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

The annoying thing from Arsenals perspective is that this is one season where United are there for the taking. Its a pity maybe illness and the schedule let it down.

I think we'll beat them yet this season. I seen enough today to convince me that the gap is closing and that we'll approach the next game more with a point to prove as opposed to the team of old who used to mentally collapse

shamrock55

To this day i still cant believe wenger sold rvp to utd, its something you just dont do and it cost yee again yesterday

gosplan

jonneymendoza wrote: »

So ozil is scared of United? why would he be when his hardly played against them? Fact is the last time he didm RM spanked them so what fear?

All i am saying is that some of our players dont have a reason to show fear else if they do, get the hell out of arsenal as thats totally unacceptable.

Ramsey having a fear of playing against stoke after his horror tackle is valid but having a fear playing against united is not.

I dont pay over £50 a ticket to watch players play with fear.

What fear? We just lost a game. Will people stop reading so much into it.

Quixoticelixer

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we'll beat them yet this season. I seen enough today to convince me that the gap is closing and that we'll approach the next game more with a point to prove as opposed to the team of old who used to mentally collapse

I'm always afraid of the dreaded mental collapse, and I had gotten into a habit of expecting it to happen. But the team has responded well to the last three defeats, good runs after the Tottenham and Villa defeats this year and responded well to the Dortmund defeat, you don't go to Dortmund and win without having a bit of bottle, particularly so soon after being turned over by them.

I say it cautiously, but they seem to have turned a corner in terms of the mental collapse habit. For years we have a team who appears to have a tendency to feel sorry for ourselves. Hopefully the dressing room and training ground is now a place of anger instead of sorrow! Time will tell.....

gosplan

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

Ozil isn't "afraid", the team is, and Ozil is part of the team. United are a bogey team, we very rarely get anything off them, that can't be said for City or Chelsea or any other team, we consistently under achieve against them, we usually perform against everyone else.

And it's not "fear" as such, it's just some sort of mental block. Like how Tottenham couldn't beat us for 10 or 11 years recently, or how Chelsea went 8 or so years without beating us up to that Champions League game in 2004. I don't know why this type of mental block happens!

What??

We consistently got parity with them till our squad took a dip in quality and we stopped competing with them.

Short memories people.

Quixoticelixer

gosplan wrote: »

What??

We consistently got parity with them till our squad took a dip in quality and we stopped competing with them.

Short memories people.

Our squad took a "dip in quality" a long, long time ago now, more often than not United have made playing against us look embarrassingly easy in the last 5 or 6 years. Apart from a one all draw last Spring, and a 1-0 win at home a few years ago, it has been one way traffic.

Marty McFly

gosplan wrote: »

So the whole rotation thing is nonsense?

At this stage of the season without a shadow of a doubt it is yeh if your talking rotation in order to give players a rest, Ramsey has been lauded for covering a distance of 12km in one game but think about it 12km over the coarse of 90 minutes isn't a huge distance to cover at all really.

I've done things much more physically demanding and challenging than a game of football and if I was to still feel physically tired four days later there would be a big problem.

And these players are professional athletes and have every conceivable aid at there disposal from doctors, physios etc there is no way in hell they would or should be physically tired four days later unless they had an illness or an injury.

gnfnrhead

Marty McFly wrote: »

I've done things much more physically demanding and challenging than a game of football and if I was to still feel physically tired four days later there would be a big problem.

Do you do the same level of training during those days?

Marty McFly

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Do you do the same level of training during those days?

I've taken the day after off to let the body recuperate two days after ill be back in the gym or at a minimum go for a run and people all over do this inbetween working full time jobs and there lives without the amount of help professional footballers get.

They should never be fatigued 4 days later, of coarse later in the season as the games pile up and the season wears on then yes it could happen players may need a few days rest but this early in the season if players are suffering from fatigue there would be a problem in the club.

cathalio11

12 kilometres over 90 minutes is a big deal in my opinion, considering that they are at very different speeds.

If someone jogs 12 km at 3 m/s then that's not too big.
If someone sprints 12 km then that is a huge deal and quite frankly impossible.

But this is very much somewhere in the middle with a combination of multiple pitch-length sprints, a few jogs and then a lot more sprints.

Players train so they can give their maximum performance on a match-day. If they didn't train as much, they wouldn't be as tired after the match but the performance would be dire. However, because they train so much, they are constantly draining their body and fatigue does set in.

It's very clear that players are tired if they play 3 matches a week. It's not just one team, it's all of them. And I doubt that every single club is making a mistake in that respect.

gosplan

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

Our squad took a "dip in quality" a long, long time ago now, more often than not United have made playing against us look embarrassingly easy in the last 5 or 6 years. Apart from a nil all draw last summer, and a 1-0 win at home a few years ago, it has been one way traffic.

They were better than us for those years.

Quixoticelixer

gosplan wrote: »

They were better than us for those years.

So? I don't care that we haven't beaten them more. It's not losing to them that's the problem, it's the manner in which they have lost many of the games. How often have we been able to say an Arsenal team gave a good account of themselves against United in the last six years? Not often enough.

Too often they don't turn up against United, it's not just because they have been a better team, there's a mental issue when it comes to United.

Chelsea have been better than us,City have been better than us in the last three years, but we don't roll over against those two in the same way and as often as we do against United.

gosplan

The idea that it's just about jogging another 12 k or pushing the body a bit more is incorrect too.

Top sports people exist in the 0.1% of performance level. Any dip in levels at all is hugely noticeable whether they manage to jog 12k or not. Playing football at the top level is not comparable to simply jogging in a straight line or going to the gym.

Marty McFly

cathalio11 wrote: »

12 kilometres over 90 minutes is a big deal in my opinion, considering that they are at very different speeds.

If someone jogs 12 km at 3 m/s then that's not too big.
If someone sprints 12 km then that is a huge deal and quite frankly impossible.

But this is very much somewhere in the middle with a combination of multiple pitch-length sprints, a few jogs and then a lot more sprints.

Players train so they can give their maximum performance on a match-day. If they didn't train as much, they wouldn't be as tired after the match but the performance would be dire. However, because they train so much, they are constantly draining their body and fatigue does set in.

It's very clear that players are tired if they play 3 matches a week. It's not just one team, it's all of them. And I doubt that every single club is making a mistake in that respect.

Different speeds and a half time break actually makes it easier imo because the body and lungs get time to recover its on and off.

I wouldn't even say it is somewhere in the middle given the physical fitness they should have or any professional athlete considering myself a avergae joe can run 12km in just under an 60 minutes and have friends who can do it in under 50. I've also done HIIT training which is sprint jog sprint etc which gets the heartrate pumping and burns fats which even footballers wouldn't be doing so intense during a game due to stoppages etc.

There whole training programme is set out to have them at physical peak for games and then recovery. Yes fatigue can set in but as I said this early in the season no way in hell.

Come on I know people who train for different sports more than some footballers who never complain about fatigue whilst working a normal job it's an old excuse that gets dragged up anytime a team looses strange how United didn't have that excuse rolling out or how no one from the club offered that excuse bar some fans looking for excuses.

wandatowell

Fu*kin hell,

AdamD

Fatigue can be mental too. Arsenal played Liverpool on Saturday night, Dortmund on Wednesday night then United on Sunday night.

All high intensity games requiring huge levels of concentration.

United played Fulham on Saturday and Sociedad on Tuesday night. Easier fixtures and a days extra rest before the Arsenal game.

Arsenal also had no meaningful players on the bench in the first 2 of those games so most played every minute of all 3. Now somebody's going to call me out for making excuses, fair enough, but its naive to think that fatigue wouldn't have an impact. The stats on games played after midweek CL games are enough to prove that it does.

gosplan

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

So? I don't care that we haven't beaten them more. It's not losing to them that's the problem, it's the manner in which they have lost many of the games. How often have we been able to say an Arsenal team gave a good account of themselves against United in the last six years? Not often enough.

Too often they don't turn up against United, it's not just because they have been a better team, there's a mental issue when it comes to United.

Chelsea have been better than us,City have been better than us in the last three years, but we don't roll over against those two in the same way and as often as we do against United.

Anyone that comes to play football against us whether it's City, Chelsea, Utd or whoever has always risked losing. Fergie's had Arsenal's number for a few years now. He knew that we didn't have the quality to break down a good defence. Jose knew this too. They both stopped us firstly from playing and figured that a goal would come.

Quixoticelixer

gosplan wrote: »

Anyone that comes to play football against us whether it's City, Chelsea, Utd or whoever has always risked losing. Fergie's had Arsenal's number for a few years now. He knew that we didn't have the quality to break down a good defence. Jose knew this too. They both stopped us firstly from playing and figured that a goal would come.

That doesn't disprove the notion that Arsenal have a mental block when it comes to United. If anything it suggests a reason why the mental block exists, they're already defeated before they step out onto the pitch against United as they felt United "had their number".

Marty McFly

Ok if it was down to fatigue then how come our performance improved in the second half? Surely it would have only got worse as the game wore on.

Wenger himself has said we were tentative and nervous in the first half no mention of fatigue.

Spanish Johnny

AdamD wrote: »

Fatigue can be mental too. Arsenal played Liverpool on Saturday night, Dortmund on Wednesday night then United on Sunday night.

All high intensity games requiring huge levels of concentration.

United played Fulham on Saturday and Sociedad on Tuesday night. Easier fixtures and a days extra rest before the Arsenal game.

Arsenal also had no meaningful players on the bench in the first 2 of those games so most played every minute of all 3. Now somebody's going to call me out for making excuses, fair enough, but its naive to think that fatigue wouldn't have an impact. The stats on games played after midweek CL games are enough to prove that it does.

I agree - I think it's more mental fatigue. Relatively speaking it was a hugely intense week for Arsenal. United had this one lined up and were a bit more prepared for it than we could have been given the difficulty of our fixtures.

Did anyone see Rooney's comments after? He said they practised free kicks and corners all week as they thought they could get at Arsenal here. It shows they spent a lot of time preparing for this fixture. Obviously Arsenal did to an extent but if only came back from Dortmund on Wednesday night and travelled to Manchester on the Saturday maybe we didn't get to work on the weaknesses of United like we could have hoped too.

Add in a bout of flu affecting a few players and a thin squad we should analyse this game in this context rather than in an historic one against United over the past 10 years.

bad2dabone

it does seem to me that united have the Hoodoo over us, and have done for many years now.
I can recall the game they beat us in 2004 to stop the invincibles, that infamous game. Since then we've beaten utd once at old trafford, 1-0 in 2006 with adebayor scoring, they've beaten us 7 times, with 1 draw. at the emirates it's not been fantastic either, we've suffered 3 defeats, and won 3 times with 3 draws.

not a brilliant record.

Anyhow, hopefully we'll have a rest over the next 13 days and get back to winning ways vs So'ton.

gosplan

Marty McFly wrote: »

Ok if it was down to fatigue then how come our performance improved in the second half? Surely it would have only got worse as the game wore on.

Wenger himself has said we were tentative and nervous in the first half no mention of fatigue.

Utd retreated.

bad2dabone

gosplan wrote: »

Utd retreated.

well they were down Vidic. He's their defensive leader.

bad2dabone

bad2dabone wrote: »

well they were down Vidic. He's their defensive leader.

That took Jones out of the middle who was doing a great job there tbf to him.

Quixoticelixer

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

Our squad took a "dip in quality" a long, long time ago now, more often than not United have made playing against us look embarrassingly easy in the last 5 or 6 years. Apart from a nil all draw last summer, and a 1-0 win at home a few years ago, it has been one way traffic.

I wouldnt consider yesterday as one way traffic tbh. Far from it in fact. Yes the first half was poor and the absentees showed that our squad was weak but overall id be optimistic with the response. The one thing we couldnt afford was to give them a lead as it made the hill steeper and made our attack easier to negate but we had our chances. We badly need to improve the squad as a whole. Having the likes of Nicklas Bendtner as third choice striker is just not good enough to be honest. But ive been heartened by our last two outings v Man United. One or two more quality signings will close that gap further in my opinion.

greendom

Just look at the results of all the teams in European competition this week - Spurs, Man City, Chelsea, Swansea and ourselves all dropped points this weekend. United were able to rotate more than we were and that probably had as much an impact as anything on the performance and the result.

tayto lover

I watch the body language of players during games.
Yesterday some of our players looked at their opponent when the ball was coming down out of the air and failed to jump or put in a challenge.
What do we put that down to?

wonski

To be honest, both teams were poor. The game itself was not a game of the day. First half Arsenal was very poor, and Manchester just a little "better". Second half the opposite, but we still didn't manage to get back.
Let's just forget this game and look into the future. Happily we managed to be 5 points ahead before that game, and City and Spurs helped a little this week. From now on it is hard work, and hopefully few players will come back after the break. Wenger mentioned there is a cash to be spent during the next transfer window - Giroud needs a rest. He wasn't that bad, scored a few and assisted well, but we all know we need someone. Until then I hope Walcott will improve the overall performance.
We started the season really well, couldn't ask for more. Can't win all the games. As long as we keep winning with teams from the bottom, and try to save points with the top teams, we are in good chance for a results at the end of the season.
It is getting very tight at the top of the table, which worries me more than lost game, or lack of replacement for Giroud.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

I watch the body language of players during games.
Yesterday some of our players looked at their opponent when the ball was coming down out of the air and failed to jump or put in a challenge.
What do we put that down to?

Mental exhaustion, fatigue, whatever.

I think that the idea that they're afraid is rather silly and to be honest talksport or daily mail worthy.

Silly simplistic narrative.

batistuta9

gosplan wrote: »

Mental exhaustion, fatigue, whatever.

I think that the idea that they're afraid is rather silly and to be honest talksport or daily mail worthy.

Silly simplistic narrative.

on what he puts the nervousness down to…
Maybe the fact that we haven't won for a long time here [Old Trafford] and that it was a big game. Once again it was a tight game that has been decided by a set-piece. That's what we will keep from this game. We knew that could happen but after that we had a go and we gave absolutely everything until the last minute. This team has a great heart so I feel sorry for my players tonight.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/boss-on-defeat-and-the-teams-at-the-top

gosplan

I don't think having a cagey start in a big away game (Dortmund or Utd) amounts to having a mental block or fear of the opposing team.

Colonialboy

Kos reckons Giroud is tired

"He has, however, shown signs of fatigue of late - with out-of-favour Nicklas Bendtner his only back-up - and Koscielny acknowledges that the demands of leading the line in every game are starting to take their toll.
The French defender told The Sun: "It's true that he's not scoring but he is setting them up, like he did against Dortmund.
"But he's also playing game after game and hasn't had a rest, so maybe he's feeling a bit of fatigue.
"He's very important for us - strong and always answers the call on the pitch.
"If you look at the games, he weighs enormously on the opposition's defence. All the balls he wins are in the air with his back to goal. He works very hard up front."

Ive been saying it for weeks, Wenger needed to bring in a journeyman striker, or find someone in the reserves to share the load, Bendtner is a joke option. Hate to see WEnger overuse him and over tire him..
Giroud needs someone else to be competing for his spot to keep him on his toes, and little things like on the training ground , Giroud is probably doing the bulk of the drills as well.