Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

Marty McFly

GavRedKing wrote: »

If ye think Giroud isnt good enough to lead the line head over to the Chelsea thread to see a real lack of a top class CF.

At least you lot have a guy whos scoring and isnt on loan at Everton :pac:

:pac::pac: Chelsea are the exact reason I said most our rivals .

GavRedKing

Marty McFly wrote: »

:pac::pac: Chelsea are the exact reason I said most our rivals .

I'd kill for an Aguero or Suarez, not literally, but you get the jist.

Mr Blobby

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'd kill for an Aguero or Suarez, not literally

Can't say the same...

farna_boy

Marty McFly wrote: »

I know I'll more than likely be slated for this but Giroud isn't good enough to lead our line imo.

Now before anyone jumps all over me his link up play is immense and his awareness is brilliant but as a CF leading our line he is a step below what most our rivals have and a step below what us as Arsenal fans have become accustomed to.

There was one point in last nights game now (admittedly I saw bits and drabs) were Ozil played a ball through Giroud was beaten to it and it was knocked on and once again he was beaten to it and I just couldn't help but think of CF's past who would have latched onto it.

We have all these players who can make killer passes but no player to run on to them, yea Walcott will help but I don't think he will be our saviour either.

Admit it if we had got Suarez during the summer I suspect Giroud would be getting limited game time this season, as I can't have seen Wenger altering his system to fit him in.


Also I know people will say typical we loose and the Giroud debate comes out and yes it does because it's in these tight games were every little thing counts that sometimes I think we just need that little bit of extra quality up front and in these games is when it really shows up. I like Giroud quality player but just a little short of being truly top class.

In terms of minutes played, only two people have played more than him this season, Szczesny and Ramsey. Although we apparently play a 4-3-3. Giroud tends to be up front by himself any match I watch and tries to close every defender down. All of which leads to last nights game where, to me, Giroud just looked tired but still chased and hassled Napoli while being constantly fouled anytime he went near the ball.

People are trying to draw parallels between him and Suarez or other strikers like that but I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Giroud is a totally different type of player.

He seems to have to drop deep enough (for a striker) frequently enough just to try to get possession. When he does get possession, he then has to hold it up or pass it off because he is too deep. During opposition corners, he also seems to be a vital part of our defence meaning that if the ball does break, he is usually never there to take advantage of it. The likes of Suarez are far more likely to be on the half line during opposition corners and be looking to receive passes in the final third to have a shot themselves.

I agree that we would benefit massively from having a player like Suarez or any of the rest of them, but maybe we then played them with Giroud it would be far, far better.

The one final thing I will say is how many of the strikers that Giroud is being compared to play up front by themselves?

Spanish Johnny

farna_boy wrote: »

In terms of minutes played, only two people have played more than him this season, Szczesny and Ramsey. Although we apparently play a 4-3-3. Giroud tends to be up front by himself any match I watch and tries to close every defender down. All of which leads to last nights game where, to me, Giroud just looked tired but still chased and hassled Napoli while being constantly fouled anytime he went near the ball.

People are trying to draw parallels between him and Suarez or other strikers like that but I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. Giroud is a totally different type of player.

He seems to have to drop deep enough (for a striker) frequently enough just to try to get possession. When he does get possession, he then has to hold it up or pass it off because he is too deep. During opposition corners, he also seems to be a vital part of our defence meaning that if the ball does break, he is usually never there to take advantage of it. The likes of Suarez are far more likely to be on the half line during opposition corners and be looking to receive passes in the final third to have a shot themselves.

I agree that we would benefit massively from having a player like Suarez or any of the rest of them, but maybe we then played them with Giroud it would be far, far better.

The one final thing I will say is how many of the strikers that Giroud is being compared to play up front by themselves?

The one thing that drives me mad about watching this Arsenal team is the isolation of Giroud up front. There is often massive gaps between him and the midfield when he takes up a forward position. Makes us predictable and easy to defend against.

GavRedKing

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Can't say the same...

You wouldnt want one of the two best CF's in the league?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

GavRedKing wrote: »

You wouldnt want one of the two best CF's in the league?

Think he was referring to the killing part...

tayto lover

The tactics, if there were any, last night has me totally baffled.

In the second half we just defended and kicked the ball long and usually back to them.

Can't remember us having the ball for any length of time or threatening their goal.

Then we made only one change to a very tired team.

Baffled.

Call Me Jimmy

Arsenal have gone slightly off the boil but they are still eeking out results which I thought many here would be pleased with. What is it 3 losses this season?

There is overall a loss of mojo (to use the technical term). Cazorla has not done well at all this season which is baffling. Is it possible that with ozil playing now the others seem to be moved around a bit to accommodate him (rightly so on usual form). Okay, cazorla gets the same position each time but the others seem to wind up in different places. Maybe a lack of continuity?

bad2dabone

Regarding Giroud, I'm a huge fan of his in many ways, his efforts, hold up play, link up play etc are all commendable. He's a great worker and I always love that in a player.
But he's not at the level of a suarez or Aguero, rooney, van persie etc. Strikers of their standard are hens teeth at the moment. The prices of strikers strikers reflects this, 30m plus for Higuain, 26m for soldado. I think Giroud offers arguably more all round than both of those. Although Higuain is a far better finisher.
While we wait for a top level striker to come along Giroud will work his ass off, we can't ask for more than that from him. He's very nearly bollixed tired though and we need another striker in January.

gosplan

Giroud's just a different kind of striker for us. We need fast wide men to maximise play off him.

He's also 27 but he's going to keep getting better and better over the next 3-4 years.

Drogba was also 27 for his second season in England. Bossed play up front, physically challenged defenders, took down goal kicks on his chest. Scored just 12 in the league though, 16 in total. The next year it clicked and he scored 33 in total.

If Giroud keeps improving at the same rate, then he'll go the same way.

It's up to Arsne to get some decent zip up front to work with him though and not just a bunch of midfielders.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

The tactics, if there were any, last night has me totally baffled.

In the second half we just defended and kicked the ball long and usually back to them.

Can't remember us having the ball for any length of time or threatening their goal.

Then we made only one change to a very tired team.

Baffled.

The tactics were to play for a 0-0 draw. If we nicked one, then great but there was no-one really getting forward.

Then when we went behind we were still winning the group so you're not going to take any risks.

Then Arteta went off and it was just about holding firm.

.jacksparrow.

gosplan wrote: »

The tactics were to play for a 0-0 draw. If we nicked one, then great but there was no-one really getting forward.

Then when we went behind we were still winning the group so you're not going to take any risks.

Then Arteta went off and it was just about holding firm.

Wenger has said he doesn't play for draws.

This team doesn't know how to, maybe that explains united Everton and Napoli.

gosplan

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Wenger has said he doesn't play for draws.

This team doesn't know how to, maybe that explains united Everton and Napoli.

Sorry but that makes no sense to me.

Utd, Everton and Napoli were all different matches with different teams that we played to different levels.

If people insist on finding some correlation between that shows some underlying weakness with this team, they will, but that's not to say it'll be indicative of anything.

The rest of this isn't directed at you jack.

I'm really baffled by the reactions today.

People could start figuring out the results by showing the opposition a bit of respect and realise that it's not just a case of showing up and as long as we don't fcuk up, we'll win.

Other teams are good too. I mean we came second in a really tough group on goal difference with a tiny panel of players to pick from for most of the games while maintaining a level in the PL that sees us five points clear.

There really seems to be a cohort of Arsenal fans that just want something to complain about.

We're defending better than Jose's Chelsea, we're playing away games better than City and we're showing consistency in the league that Utd would kill for right now.

Pen.Island

I don't get why Wenger played his best team but told them hold back? Why not stick some second stringers inn there and play to their max?

The likes of Ozil/Giroud/Cazorla/Arteta should be getting rest if possible.

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

The tactics were to play for a 0-0 draw. If we nicked one, then great but there was no-one really getting forward.

Then when we went behind we were still winning the group so you're not going to take any risks.

Then Arteta went off and it was just about holding firm.

We were very comfortable in the first half.
The team tired dramatically in the second yet we got one change when Giroud in particular was out on his feet.
If we were playing for a 0 - 0 draw then that's a funny / peculiar way to go about it. A few fresh players would have injected a bit of pace and might have got that result for us. Going for a 0 - 0 and leaving Monreal and Vermailen on the bench does not compute. They could have been introduced along with Walcott after 60/70 minutes.

gosplan

So how would we line out for city?

You'd imagine Walcott, Wilshire and Ramsey are all dead certs to start.

Then pick one of Arteta and Flamini and one of Caz and Ozil.

I'd nearly be tempted for both Arteta and Flamini.

.jacksparrow.

gosplan wrote: »

So how would we line out for city?

You'd imagine Walcott, Wilshire and Ramsey are all dead certs to start.

Then pick one of Arteta and Flamini and one of Caz and Ozil.

I'd nearly be tempted for both Arteta and Flamini.

Was thinking them 2 starting the other day, but once again it shows were a little afraid and its not playing to our strengths, they started against united and we know how that ended.

Lets try play our best team and the only way we know.

Royale with Cheese

Would like to see arteta, Flamini, Ramsey, ozil, walcott. I think we'll get arteta, Ramsey, wilshere, Cazorla, özil.

.jacksparrow.

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Would like to see arteta, Flamini, Ramsey, ozil, walcott. I think we'll get arteta, Ramsey, wilshere, Cazorla, özil.

I'd be happy with that.

jamescd

I was hoping to top the group but I think finishing 2nd is a blessing in disguise. If we're not good enough to beat any of the teams that we will be drawn against on Monday, then it's better that we get knocked out this early so we can focus on the league.

However, if we do pull off a win over 2 legs against one of the big boys, then it proves we can go far in the competition and maybe win it. So it's better that we find that out in the next round straight away, rather than play 2 additional matches against one of the weak teams beforehand had we topped the group.

We're in with a real shout for the title this time so there's no point prolonging our stay in the competition just for the sake of it. The players already look tired as it is and we don't exactly have a big squad like City or Chelsea.

Mickeroo

jamescd wrote: »

I was hoping to top the group but I think finishing 2nd is a blessing in disguise. If we're not good enough to beat any of the teams that we will be drawn against on Monday, then it's better that we get knocked out this early so we can focus on the league.

However, if we do pull off a win over 2 legs against one of the big boys, then it proves we can go far in the competition and maybe win it. So it's better that we find that out in the next round straight away, rather than play 2 additional matches against one of the weak teams beforehand had we topped the group.

We're in with a real shout for the title this time so there's no point prolonging our stay in the competition just for the sake of it. The players already look tired as it is and we don't exactly have a big squad like City or Chelsea.

Stop it with all that logic you!

farna_boy

I must admit, I have grave reservations about Walcott starting vs Man City. Yes, his attributes would be very useful against them, but he still is only returning from injury. He has had a total of 79 ,minutes since coming back and in all honesty I don't think he has touched the ball more than 10 times.

I think people are also looking through rose tinted glasses as well. There was times when Walcott was more frustrating than Gervinho in the past and that was when he was fully match fit.

Given the importance of the game, I'd say we should start someone else and bring him on as a sub, early in the second half. If he had actually played a few games before now I would have said he should definitely be starting but since he hasn't I think it could be a mistake.

Oranage2

Looking at a thread on red cafe about the probability of the draw, not sure how accurate it is but the highest probability is that we get Bayern.

United schalke
Chelsea levrkuson
City dormund

batistuta9

Oranage2 wrote: »

Looking at a thread on red cafe about the probability of the draw, not sure how accurate it is but the highest probability is that we get Bayern.

United schalke
Chelsea levrkuson
City dormund

googled the image & got this on the arsenal reddit

Of the five seeded teams that Arsenal can be drawn against, four of them can be drawn against seven of the unseeded teams:
Barca cannot be drawn against Milan
Real cannot be drawn against Galatasaray
Atletico cannot be drawn against Zenit
PSG cannot be drawn against Olympiacos
So those four teams have an equal chance of drawing us. Bayern on the other hand can only be drawn against five possible unseeded teams, as they cannot be drawn against Schalke, City or Leverkusen. This gives them a higher chance of drawing us.
But another way to look at it is that we have a 69% probability of NOT drawing Bayern.

Conditional probability. ELI5 : since Schalke/Leverkusen can't draw Bayern, a bit of their probabilities move over to Arsenal/City, but then city can't draw Bayern either so it moves again to Arsenal

http://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1soo0i/arsenal_have_the_highest_probability_of_drawing/?sort=old

Oranage2

Psg being the obvious choice, and have atletico second, Real and barca third choice and Bayern would be the team I'd least like to be drawn against.

My preference anyway.

Oranage2

Looking at the teams if we finished first I reckon we'd have been big favourites against any of the.teams we could have drawn.


On Giroud , he's been playing very well thus far though performance wise lately he's having a dip, he's not a top quality striker, if we go out and improve on him then we should.


Against city I'd play our most dangerous team

Flamni Rambo
Walcott ozil cazorla
Giroud

.jacksparrow.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Looking at the teams if we finished first I reckon we'd have been big favourites against any of the.teams we could have drawn.


On Giroud , he's been playing very well thus far though performance wise lately he's having a dip, he's not a top quality striker, if we go out and improve on him then we should.


Against city I'd play our most dangerous team

Flamni Rambo
Walcott ozil cazorla
Giroud

Yeah I just don't think flamini and arteta works well together, it looks good on paper, but I think its 1 out of 6 we have won with them both starting.

Ramsey next to one of them is much more affective.

just hoping szcz, sagna, mert, kos and gibbs are all fit this weekend.

.jacksparrow.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

just hoping szcz, sagna, mert, kos and gibbs are all fit this weekend.

Mirror saying sagna is back which would be great. Maybe Wenger was hesitant to play theo in front of jenkinson.

emergingstar

Walcott HAS to start, and it's not even what he brings going forward

I think he has to start so that it that it pushes there defence back that 5 yards and it also keeps there full back from picking on too often

batistuta9

the guy who worked at the club as a youth coach - his father is a scout too - that tweeted about backing ozil at 14/1 to move to arsenal is no longer working with the club they confirmed

he was suspended for club & FA investigations, he isn't being charged though

.jacksparrow.

Sky sport Italia reporting, sagnas agent is in talks with ac Milan and Napoli.

Not really a move up in my opinion but obviously wants a new challenge.

batistuta9

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Sky sport Italia reporting, sagnas agent is in talks with ac Milan and Napoli.

Not really a move up in my opinion but obviously wants a new challenge.

he wants more than a 1 year contract & probably an increase

.jacksparrow.

batistuta9 wrote: »

he wants more than a 1 year contract & probably an increase

We should give it to him.

batistuta9

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

We should give it to him.

yeah

i wonder are they just doing it as they want to get a new RB in anyway, & while they'd keep him in around on a year deal aren't too bothered either if he doesn't stay

AdamD

Sagna faces a fitness test today but Wenger seems optimistic.
Podolski's back but won't play, will be available for Chelsea though.

liamygunner29

Sagna is vital. Sitting on North Bank this year and looking down on him, so strong and oozing experience at moment. He has had some crossing issues, for me he has dealt with most of them. Against United in OT, he was the only attacking threat and put in delicous crosses, I trust him to deliver more often than not.

I like Jenks, problem is- he is just to susceptible to be lining out tomorrow. See Citeh at home are unreal, like a machine. Just like Dortmund moved against us in CL in Emirates, Sagna got caught out in that game and I'm sure Jenks would tomorrow except worse. He is fit and loves Arsenal, which is useful against weaker teams when we are ontop. He can parade up and down the line and take on the opposing full back, but he is not good enough yet for the big game, too loose. Look at the Napoli game and Everton to extent, he can't make that pass ya want to move outta defence, he is a terrible man for hoofing and a class below what's around him.

Bac needs to sign. Bac, Kos, Per and Gibbo, is an unreal back 4.

MaxPower89

Monreal for a suprise start? I think he could make a difference in attack, probably ahead of Gibbs in that regard.

MaxPower89

MaxPower89 wrote: »

Monreal for a suprise start? I think he could make a difference in attack, probably ahead of Gibbs in that regard.

We haven't lost with Szcz, Gibbs, Kos, Mert and Sagna so far.

Call Me Jimmy

Gibbs has been so good that monreal hasn't gotten much of a look in but he looks excellent as well. Tough call, suppose that's why Arsene gets the big bucks.

wonderfullife

There was no point going to Naples going hell-for-leather with the best XI on the field. Absolutely pointless.

Wenger knew whatever side he put out would not get stuffed by 3.

Job done. Qualified for last-16 in a tournament which is clearly 2nd priority this year and retain fresh legs for the vital fixture of the week tomorrow.

If the result goes Arsenals way tomorrow (win or draw) then the manager is totally vindicated.

I seem to be in a minority but Wenger knows what he's doing!!

shano_88

.jacksparrow.

wonderfullife wrote: »

There was no point going to Naples going hell-for-leather with the best XI on the field. Absolutely pointless.

Wenger knew whatever side he put out would not get stuffed by 3.

Job done. Qualified for last-16 in a tournament which is clearly 2nd priority this year and retain fresh legs for the vital fixture of the week tomorrow.

If the result goes Arsenals way tomorrow (win or draw) then the manager is totally vindicated.

I seem to be in a minority but Wenger knows what he's doing!!

Who got a good rest that will be starting tomorrow?

extra gravy

Wenger reveals his plan for tomorrow...

Reporter: "Man City. P7 W7 F29 - how do you stop them?

Wenger: "We make them believe they play away!"

:pac:

wonderfullife

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Who got a good rest that will be starting tomorrow?

all of them. they were strolling around against Napoli.

Sure napoli were doing most of the strolling themselves until they heard the Dortmund scoreline.

shano_88

Wilshere ,Ramsey and Walcott are surely no-brainers for City.

.jacksparrow.

wonderfullife wrote: »

all of them. they were strolling around against Napoli.

Sure napoli were doing most of the strolling themselves until they heard the Dortmund scoreline.

Right, I still don't think that means their rested.

EuropeanSon

shano_88 wrote: »

Wilshere ,Ramsey and Walcott are surely no-brainers for City.

Walcott can't be a no brainer, he has played less than 90 mins total, I'd think hard before throwing him in against City.

I think Flamini, Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla, Özil will be the midfield, but wouldn't be shocked to see Arteta in for either Cazorla or Wilshere, or even Rosicky instead of Cazorla.

shano_88

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Walcott can't be a no brainer, he has played less than 90 mins total, I'd think hard before throwing him in against City.

I see where your coming from but after 2 tough games in the last few days fresh legs will be needed and I fully expect Walcott to start.

Im surprised Wenger hasn't used Walcott much since his return. The team is crying out for pace and runs in behind Giroud.