Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

batistuta9

tayto lover wrote: »

No but a good auld fry is hard to beat, even if you have a match to play

:pac::pac::pac:

Merson was on about that, i wasn't making it up, their pre match meal. Said it's no fun having to it eat it at that time of the morning or something like that

Maire2009

emergingstar

If we don't win Monday I don't think the league is over

I also don't think ya really need to beat the big teams to win the league, 3 points against city is the same as 3 points against hull

But

This team HAS to beat a big team to get the monkey of there backs and for there confidence

batistuta9

enfant terrible wrote: »

Supposed to be £32 million.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/346964/Chelsea-preparing-32m-offer-for-Liverpool-target-Diego-Costa

Would Wenger pay it I wonder?

Assuming we could pay any wages he wanted.

Could be the difference between a title and no title.

unless his is different - which i doubt & it's the standard La Liga one

they're not straight forward release clauses.
i think atletico or any club can refuse it
then the player has go to a board of La Liga, some sort of appeal, with the money
this would've to be given to him by the buying club (most likely)
then the taxman can claim 50% or whatever it is, from the player
meaning it'd cost was more than the actual clause

it's something like, i can't remember it exactly but it can be quite complicated if the players club want it to be

enfant terrible

batistuta9 wrote: »

unless his is different - which i doubt & it's the standard La Liga one

they're not straight forward release clauses.
i think atletico or any club can refuse it
then the player has go to a board of La Liga, some sort of appeal, with the money
this would've to be given to him by the buying club (most likely)
then the taxman can claim 50% or whatever it is, from the player
meaning it'd cost was more than the actual clause

it's something like, i can't remember it exactly but it can be quite complicated if the players club want it to be

Thinking about it I don't think Wenger would try and force a transfer through in January against Atletico's wishes.

Just not his style.

tayto lover

I will be seriously surprised if we sign anyone at all in January.
Just not our style to make a big signing in Jan.

wandatowell

keano_afc wrote: »

Fairs Cup. We got Dinamo Bacau in the QFs.

lol Dinamo Bacau


hahahaha classic

Maire2009

tayto lover wrote: »

I will be seriously surprised if we sign anyone at all in January.
Just not our style to make a big signing in Jan.

Theo, Adebayor and Diaby all came in the 2006 window

Arshavin came in January - just about!

Royale with Cheese

Maire2009 wrote: »

Theo, Adebayor and Diaby all came in the 2006 window

Arshavin came in January - just about!

Reyes too. Jaysus, that was 10 years ago

bad2dabone

He'll make a signing in january if the player is available, the price is within what wenger values them at, and if he reckons it wont disrupt the team.

greendom

enfant terrible wrote: »

Thinking about it I don't think Wenger would try and force a transfer through in January against Atletico's wishes.

Just not his style.

Not forgetting that they are flying La Liga and in the Champions League. Can't see him going anywhere in Jan.

smileyj1987

tayto lover wrote: »

I will be seriously surprised if we sign anyone at all in January.
Just not our style to make a big signing in Jan.

I can see alot of transfers in January with it being a world cup year . Plenty of players will want a move to put themselves into the shop window for their countries world cup campaign .

Maire2009

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I can see alot of transfers in January with it being a world cup year . Plenty of players will want a move to put themselves into the shop window for their countries world cup campaign .

Do you think Vermaelen will leave or will he make the Belgian team anyway?

On beating the "big teams" - do Liverpool count as a big team? We beat them this season or because they are out of the top 4 for so long they need to get back into it before we can consider them a "big team"? Just an honest question.

gnfnrhead

Maire2009 wrote: »

Do you think Vermaelen will leave or will he make the Belgian team anyway?

On beating the "big teams" - do Liverpool count as a big team? We beat them this season or because they are out of the top 4 for so long they need to get back into it before we can consider them a "big team"? Just an honest question.

Depends if it suits the argument or not. We've beaten Liverpool and spurs but apparently they dont count this season.

ronjo

Shoot me for this but I think Berbatov would be a perfect short term signing

enfant terrible

ronjo wrote: »

Shoot me for this but I think Berbatov would be a perfect short term signing

Wouldn't mind either, anyone but Bendtner.

extra gravy

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Depends if it suits the argument or not. We've beaten Liverpool and spurs but apparently they dont count this season.

They seem to count when it suits. The commentator yesterday called Liverpool "genuine title contenders" yet we beat both teams and I don't think I've heard us being called that yet.

emergingstar

Man utd, man city, Chelsea

The premiership big 3

The rest don't count

(The thoughts of calling spurs a big team hahahahahahaha hilarious)

emergingstar

Spurs

Hahahahahahahahaha

***Long statty post with tables and stuff ahead***

Ok, So I've been doing some digging and thinking...

How important was the defeat against City overall?

Not very.

I went back to the 10/11 season and had a look at the mini league of the top four.

Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Arsenal|6|3|1|2|7|4|10
2|Man Utd|6|3|1|2|6|5|10
3|Chelsea|6|3|0|3|8|7|9
4|Man City|6|1|2|3|2|7|5

But the standings at the end of the year was:
Man Utd: 80
Chelsea: 71
Man City: 71
Arsenal: 68

Clearly we "won" the mini league (by a +2 GD) but we were 12 points behind the winners. Where we needed to pick up the points was the lower teams we drew with (10 draws from the 16 lower teams).

The year after, there were 5 teams that were the top, so I included them all.

Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Man Utd|8|6|1|1|18|15|19
2|Man City|8|6|0|2|19|8|18
3|Arsenal|8|3|1|4|15|18|10
4|Chelsea|8|1|4|3|11|15|7
5|Spurs|8|1|2|5|9|21|5

Final Standings:

Man City: 89
Man Utd: 89
Arsenal: 70
Spurs: 69
Chelsea: 65

So united win the mini league and lose the league. But Chelsea and Spurs have a reversal of fortunes.

In 12/13 we had a truly terrible Mini league.
Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Man City|6|3|2|1|9|5|11
2|Man Utd|6|3|1|2|10|9|10
3|Chelsea|6|3|1|2|7|7|10
4|Arsenal|6|0|2|4|5|10|2

And the standings:

Man Utd: 89
Man City: 78
Chelsea: 75
Arsenal: 73

No major change except again, the winners of both didn't match. Arsenal finished the league campaign 16 points behind the winners, yet only 9 points behind the mini league winners.

So we look at this year so far...

Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Man City|3|2|0|1|12|6|6
2|Chelsea|2|1|1|0|2|1|4
3|Man Utd|4|1|1|2|2|5|4
4|Liverpool|2|1|0|1|1|2|3
5|Arsenal|3|1|0|2|5|7|3

Yes, I included Liverpool and Man U as it would be foolish to not think they will not make the top 5.

Obviously, we're in a bad position at the moment. But, there's an awful lot of games to play in the meantime. City can pound all the teams around them, but if they can't beat the likes of Cardiff, Stoke, Villa or Sunderland, then they could be in big trouble.

Interesting to note that no winner of the league was the winner of the mini league and that the winner of the league has been second in the mini league for the last few years.

Anyway, sorry bout the long statty post, but we are top of the league, it's not all bad

Maire2009

emergingstar wrote: »

Man utd, man city, Chelsea

The premiership big 3

The rest don't count

(The thoughts of calling spurs a big team hahahahahahaha hilarious)

So for arguments sake, United keep floating around 8/9th position (tehehehehehehe) and we beat them at home next year - will we get credited with beating a big team or will they say United are in transition and no longer count?

We beat City at home last season, didn't we? 1-0, Arteta goal.

I'm not having a go at anyone by the by, just the criteria of a big teams seems to change whenever we play them and I'm having a hard time keeping up.

greendom

Maire2009 wrote: »

So for arguments sake, United keep floating around 8/9th position (tehehehehehehe) and we beat them at home next year - will we get credited with beating a big team or will they say United are in transition and no longer count?

We beat City at home last season, didn't we? 1-0, Arteta goal.

I'm not having a go at anyone by the by, just the criteria of a big teams seems to change whenever we play them and I'm having a hard time keeping up.

That was the season before, (with the Arteta winnner). Everyone just about wrote City off for the title after we beat them.

Last season we drew 1 - 1 early on in the season with Kosc getting the equaliser. We were well beaten in the return fixture with Kosc getting sent off (and giving away the pen for the first goal I seem to remember)

Drexel

Fully believe we can win the league with consistency against weaker teams.

EuropeanSon

Deleted User wrote: »

***Long statty post with tables and stuff ahead***

Ok, So I've been doing some digging and thinking...

How important was the defeat against City overall?

Not very.

I went back to the 10/11 season and had a look at the mini league of the top four.

Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Arsenal|6|3|1|2|7|4|10
2|Man Utd|6|3|1|2|6|5|10
3|Chelsea|6|3|0|3|8|7|9
4|Man City|6|1|2|3|2|7|5

But the standings at the end of the year was:
Man Utd: 80
Chelsea: 71
Man City: 71
Arsenal: 68

Clearly we "won" the mini league (by a +2 GD) but we were 12 points behind the winners. Where we needed to pick up the points was the lower teams we drew with (10 draws from the 16 lower teams).

The year after, there were 5 teams that were the top, so I included them all.

Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Man Utd|8|6|1|1|18|15|19
2|Man City|8|6|0|2|19|8|18
3|Arsenal|8|3|1|4|15|18|10
4|Chelsea|8|1|4|3|11|15|7
5|Spurs|8|1|2|5|9|21|5

Final Standings:

Man City: 89
Man Utd: 89
Arsenal: 70
Spurs: 69
Chelsea: 65

So united win the mini league and lose the league. But Chelsea and Spurs have a reversal of fortunes.

In 12/13 we had a truly terrible Mini league.
Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Man City|6|3|2|1|9|5|11
2|Man Utd|6|3|1|2|10|9|10
3|Chelsea|6|3|1|2|7|7|10
4|Arsenal|6|0|2|4|5|10|2

And the standings:

Man Utd: 89
Man City: 78
Chelsea: 75
Arsenal: 73

No major change except again, the winners of both didn't match. Arsenal finished the league campaign 16 points behind the winners, yet only 9 points behind the mini league winners.

So we look at this year so far...

Pos|Team|Games|Won|Draw|Lost|For|Against|Points
1|Man City|3|2|0|1|12|6|6
2|Chelsea|2|1|1|0|2|1|4
3|Man Utd|4|1|1|2|2|5|4
4|Liverpool|2|1|0|1|1|2|3
5|Arsenal|3|1|0|2|5|7|3

Yes, I included Liverpool and Man U as it would be foolish to not think they will not make the top 5.

Obviously, we're in a bad position at the moment. But, there's an awful lot of games to play in the meantime. City can pound all the teams around them, but if they can't beat the likes of Cardiff, Stoke, Villa or Sunderland, then they could be in big trouble.

Interesting to note that no winner of the league was the winner of the mini league and that the winner of the league has been second in the mini league for the last few years.

Anyway, sorry bout the long statty post, but we are top of the league, it's not all bad

I agree with the point (that the mini league is not very important) but your "proof" is very weak.

The title winning team has been in the top two in the mini league every year, and in two of the years you mention the top two in the league and mini league coincide, separated by a point. In not one of the years you have there is the first or second placed team more than a point off the top of the mini league.

Which suggests very strongly that doing well in the mini league is very correlated with league performance.

jonny666

jonny666 wrote: »

Fully believe we can win the league with consistency against weaker teams.

As do I, but I think we have to do better against the top 5.

Chelsea, we don't have much of a hoodoo with, but Sunday will be the tenth time Wenger has faced Mourinho since 2004 and has yet to beat one of his teams. W0D4L5. Not great at all. I think this Chelsea team will be one of the weakest we faced so far. If Wenger can work his magic we can be right up for it, but I would take a draw right now, even if it meant slipping to second place temporarily.

I say temporarily as before New Years, Liverpool have Chelsea (H) and City (A). I fully expect Suarez to run rings around the Chelsea defence but they have to play Man City the GW before in the Etihad. Which as we know is a silly tough place to go!

EuropeanSon

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I agree with the point (that the mini league is not very important) but your "proof" is very weak.

The title winning team has been in the top two in the mini league every year, and in two of the years you mention the top two in the league and mini league coincide, separated by a point. In not one of the years you have there is the first or second placed team more than a point off the top of the mini league.

Which suggests very strongly that doing well in the mini league is very correlated with league performance.

Well, my main point is, it's not the end of the world to take a hockeying from one of your rivals. Realistically you should be trying to win at least 3 of the mini league games. We've won one so far, so 2 to go out of the remaining 5...

In 2011/12 Spurs were handing wins to nearly all the teams hence City and Utd finishing on 6 wins...

bad2dabone

We must beat chelsea - and i'm confident we can. As has been said, we need to slay that monkey.

Also, anyone for an FA cup win this year??

tayto lover

bad2dabone wrote: »

We must beat chelsea - and i'm confident we can. As has been said, we need to slay that monkey.

Also, anyone for an FA cup win this year??

Not really worried about the FA Cup.
It's the EPL I want but we do have to start beating the big 3 starting with Chelsea.

Maire2009

greendom wrote: »

That was the season before, (with the Arteta winnner). Everyone just about wrote City off for the title after we beat them.

Last season we drew 1 - 1 early on in the season with Kosc getting the equaliser. We were well beaten in the return fixture with Kosc getting sent off (and giving away the pen for the first goal I seem to remember)

I've obviously gotten very good at blocking out bad memories

Fuzzy_Dunlop

ronjo wrote: »

Shoot me for this but I think Berbatov would be a perfect short term signing

He's really the opposite of the sort of striker we need imo

Gringo180

tayto lover wrote: »

Not really worried about the FA Cup.
It's the EPL I want but we do have to start beating the big 3 starting with Chelsea.

Your spot on mate. Its been far too long since we have done one of the top clubs in England on a consistent basis. Lose next week and there is not a chance we will win the league, mentally it will kill us.

ronjo

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

He's really the opposite of the sort of striker we need imo

His link up play is second to none.
His effort of course is the problem but when motivated he can be brilliant.

Could Wenger motivate him?
I think so with a shot at a premier league title and exciting Champions League tie coming up.

All IMO of course

bad2dabone

There's talk about an enquiry to villa about the availability of benteke. His form is in the toilet at the moment, but would he be a decent option?

Royale with Cheese

Could only see Arsenal taking him at the sort of price Villa wouldn't accept. He was great last year but looks a risk now. Basically he hasn't been playing bad for long enough to warrant the kind of price drop that would attract a team like Arsenal, and he hasn't been playing well enough to warrant the kind of price Villa would want for him.

batistuta9

Deleted User wrote: »

***Long statty post with tables and stuff ahead***

good post.

though it also shows where people get this 'notion' that arsenal don't do it in the big game/against the big teams

p23 w7 d4 l12 from the 3 and a bit seasons you've listed

out of the teams to feature all the time (arsenal (p23) ,man u (p24), man city(p23), chelsea(p22))
arsenal have the lowest win percentage - 30.4%
chelsea - 36.36
man city - 52.17
man u - 54.17

and have lost the most games too - 12
chelsea - 8
man city - 7
man u - 7

Fuzzy_Dunlop

ronjo wrote: »

His link up play is second to none.
His effort of course is the problem but when motivated he can be brilliant.

Could Wenger motivate him?
I think so with a shot at a premier league title and exciting Champions League tie coming up.

All IMO of course

But Giroud already provides us with great link up play.

We need someone pacy who can run in behind.

Oranage2

Look atGiroud work rate and still gets critiques, bers would be lynched

ronjo

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

But Giroud already provides us with great link up play.

We need someone pacy who can run in behind.

Theo and Ox will do the second part.
Berbatov would be backup or replacement to Giroud.

wandatowell

Giroud is mouthy, full of confidence and swagger but he tempers that with a fierce work rate.


He's a great asset.

ronjo

Oranage2 wrote: »

Look atGiroud work rate and still gets critiques, bers would be lynched

The one thing Giroud never gets criticised for is his workrate.

Hyzepher

In recent years a 6-3 defeat from a rival may have sent us into a bit of a "spiral" but I think the team are more grounded than that now. We are still 2pts ahead of the pack and despite a tough game against Chelsea coming up we are still going to be at the sharp end come the new year. Remember that the other teams have to play each other as well - City/Pool/Chelsea have tough games over the Xmas that and are not guaranteed maximum points or anything near it. We need to maintain the level that we have shown so far and win when expected.

Our lack of draws this year is a HUGE factor and it helps to reduce the impact of the losses.

Despite our 3 losses so far this year I'd happily take 35pts from our next 16 games - you could even throw in another 6-3 defeat if you like and I'd still bite your hand off.

There are easily 7 strong teams this year all capable of beating each other - thats 12 games against so-called top teams. It's the other 26 games that will decide the title

2ndcoming

35 from the next 16 I think we might say goodbye to the title aspirations. We'd be on 70 points with 32 played, we'd need to win at least 5 of the last 6 to have any chance I'd say.

One step at a time, 45 by Jan 1st is the only target I'm setting for now.

batistuta9

Hyzepher wrote: »

There are easily 7 strong teams this year all capable of beating each other - thats 12 games against so-called top teams. It's the other 26 games that will decide the title

maybe this year it's more important than usual, if you look at how tight the table is & by the end of the year, city, chelsea, l'pool, arsenal & man u will have all played 19 and 4 against each other, those games will have a pretty big impact on the table

you can throw evertons' results against them 5 into it as well

Hyzepher

2ndcoming wrote: »

35 from the next 16 I think we might say goodbye to the title aspirations. We'd be on 70 points with 32 played, we'd need to win at least 5 of the last 6 to have any chance I'd say.

One step at a time, 45 by Jan 1st is the only target I'm setting for now.

Unless City run away with it, I'd say this year will have one of the lowest winning points total

Spanish Johnny

2ndcoming wrote: »

35 from the next 16 I think we might say goodbye to the title aspirations. We'd be on 70 points with 32 played, we'd need to win at least 5 of the last 6 to have any chance I'd say.

One step at a time, 45 by Jan 1st is the only target I'm setting for now.

I don't think that's the case at all. 35 from the next 16 games would be outstanding. I would bite your hand off for it and arguably say we should then win it.

Last 5 games of season are:

West Ham (H)
Hull (A)
Newcastle (H)
West Brom (H)
Norwich (A)

That's as good a run is you get.

In our next 16 games we play Chelsea x 2, Man United, Man City and Liverpool, Newcastle, Southampton, Spurs and Everton away. If we come through them games and the 7 others with 35 points we are laughing.

gosplan

batistuta9 wrote: »

good post.

though it also shows where people get this 'notion' that arsenal don't do it in the big game/against the big teams

p23 w7 d4 l12 from the 3 and a bit seasons you've listed

out of the teams to feature all the time (arsenal (p23) ,man u (p24), man city(p23), chelsea(p22))
arsenal have the lowest win percentage - 30.4%
chelsea - 36.36
man city - 52.17
man u - 54.17

and have lost the most games too - 12
chelsea - 8
man city - 7
man u - 7

But we had a really good record against City and Chelsea in the years before they spent a billion on players.

All teams struggle against better teams.

Hopefully we can continue to improve the players we have and make good purchases that will improve us rather than just plugging gaps.

The next 3 years should be better.

slingerz

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

I don't think that's the case at all. 35 from the next 16 games would be outstanding. I would bite your hand off for it and arguably say we should then win it.

Last 5 games of season are:

West Ham (H)
Hull (A)
Newcastle (H)
West Brom (H)
Norwich (A)

That's as good a run is you get.

In our next 16 games we play Chelsea x 2, Man United, Man City and Liverpool, Newcastle, Southampton, Spurs and Everton away. If we come through them games and the 7 others with 35 points we are laughing.

The next 16 is tough from an Arsenal POV. Gotta remember that for FF purposes!

MaxPower89

Might Arsene mix it up a bit once Poldi is back? Perhaps Wally and Poldi as the advanced players?

Giving Giroud a rest, for a run of games even if the lads do well.

2ndcoming

I don't think we could try a 4-4-2 without a powerful box-to-box midfielder to partner Arteta / Flamini. Someone in the Yaya mould. Diaby could have been that player if things had gone differently for him.

Something like :

---

Diaby

---

Arteta

---

-Ramsey

---

Ozil

---

-

---

Walcott

---

Podolski

---

I just think Ramsey/Flamini or Flamini/Arteta or Ramsey/Arteta lack the strength to play as the centre mid pairing in a 4-4-2, we'd be too open to getting dominated physically.

DenMan

Be interesting to see what team Chelsea put out tonight in the League Cup against Sunderland! Ba will start I'm sure!