Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

Whatever about Benteke's missed chance but Weimann's chance sums him up for the past few months. If we're talking about Villa's sitters then you also have to include Everton's 2 great chances from Lukaku, they should have had 2 as well. Vlaar's defending for the second one was shocking too.

It just shows that no matter how many chances we get, be it miss them or score, the defence is gonna give up just as many chances. The constant giving away of the ball easily is so frustrating too. Only 2 points ahead of a Norwich team supposedly near to sacking their manager.

If Villa had gone out and spent what Norwich did and were 2 points less, I'd be calling for Lambert's head too. Until Lambert is properly backed by Lerner, steering clear of relegation is enough to keep him safe.

circadian

Played well yesterday, sometimes the chances just don't fall your way.

Lets not forget Martinez is a decent manager that has inherited a strong and settled squad. He didn't really make many changes.

Villa on the other half are coming out of a turbulent few years and is a completely different squad from 2 years ago.

Shame to lose the game but there are signs of improvement.

Corholio

CSF wrote: »

If Villa had gone out and spent what Norwich did and were 2 points less, I'd be calling for Lambert's head too. Until Lambert is properly backed by Lerner, steering clear of relegation is enough to keep him safe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not calling for Lambert's head, but it just shows that it can still turn into a precarious position unless they get a few wins in a row, and with the defence the way it is, we can't just rely on Benteke to get goals otherwise it's gonna be last season all over again.

On spending, €7m was a lot to spend on Kozak, when I think the team needed strengthening elsewhere. Time will tell whether he'll be a Benteke or a Bennett.

matrim

Corholio wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not calling for Lambert's head, but it just shows that it can still turn into a precarious position unless they get a few wins in a row, and with the defence the way it is, we can't just rely on Benteke to get goals otherwise it's gonna be last season all over again.

On spending, €7m was a lot to spend on Kozak, when I think the team needed strengthening elsewhere. Time will tell whether he'll be a Benteke or a Bennett.

Kozak was more like 4m from everything I heard

Doodee

hopefully the money is there for the rumoured Kiyotake / Belhanda type player in Jan.
I think it's something that is sorely needed in the team. I wonder if the high pressure / speed of our game might be effecting player stamina as we always dip in the final 20 mins of the games.

CSF

I think the big thing is that expectations were too high on here from the beginning this year

listermint

CSF wrote: »

I think the big thing is that expectations were too high on here from the beginning this year

I dont think thats entirely fair. I wouldnt think 10th place is high expectation to have. Sure we should be aiming for in around there no?

Corholio

CSF wrote: »

I think the big thing is that expectations were too high on here from the beginning this year

I disagree. What were these expectations? To be not as ****e as most of last season? Surely not much to ask for, and while there hasn't been any 8-0's, the team can still leak goals at almost any minute. I remember some salivating over this season because we had a few good games at the end of last season, but all the players who were playing well then, are performing way.
under par, besides Delph.

I don't think any of the signings can be considered very good signings yet either, Bacuna looks solid without being great, the rest still have question marks IMO.

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

I disagree. What were these expectations?

Look above for an example. COVYB was talking things upto the max aswell. Performances in some games were great towards the end of last season but I never looked at that as anything other than good form.

The only player that I viewed as an improvement to the first 11 got a horrible injury early on. As far as I can see, there won't be significant improvements to Villa's fortunes until Lerner puts his hands in his pocket and allows Lambert to sign some players who will definitely make a difference.

Wacker The Attacker

circadian wrote: »

Played well yesterday, sometimes the chances just don't fall your way.

Lets not forget Martinez is a decent manager that has inherited a strong and settled squad. He didn't really make many changes.

Villa on the other half are coming out of a turbulent few years and is a completely different squad from 2 years ago.

Shame to lose the game but there are signs of improvement.

The chances did fall our way. They were not taken. Its not excuses that this team needs in the premier league.

The arsenal game is looking like a flash in the pan.

We were appalling at home against Liverpool, Spurs (twice) and Newcastle

We've won 1 from 5 at home and we were lucky to get it. There are very few signs of improvement. We're almost as bad now as we were this time last year. Our saving grace this year, like last year, is that we have at least two squads worse than ours.

Success this year will be finishing ahead of Crystal Palace and two other sides.

Corholio

CSF wrote: »

Look above for an example. COVYB was talking things upto the max aswell. Performances in some games were great towards the end of last season but I never looked at that as anything other than good form.

The only player that I viewed as an improvement to the first 11 got a horrible injury early on. As far as I can see, there won't be significant improvements to Villa's fortunes until Lerner puts his hands in his pocket and allows Lambert to sign some players who will definitely make a difference.

In fairness to Lerner, he has done exactly that in the past and got completely burned. Lambert got around £23m last season and about £16 million this summer, not huge numbers but not paltry either, especially considering the disastrous business done by previous managers. Out of all Lamberts signings (16 by my count), only Benteke IMO is the only one who can be considered a really good signing, actually I'll also give him Guzan too. He was always talked about as a manager who could do excellent with little money too, I've yet to see it in his signings if I'm honest.

He has bought 3 full backs and none of them can seem to defend, I'm not counting Bacuna as a full back even thought thats where he's been playing. A player he didn't sign, Delph, has been holding that midfield together for about 9 months now.

COYVB

CSF wrote: »

Look above for an example. COVYB was talking things upto the max aswell

Only kinda. It was based on the fact that beyond the top 7, anyone in the league could finish anywhere with a bit of luck and some decent form. 8th should still be the target, and it's not beyond us at all. It sounds a lot better than it is in reality given the state of the league

Wacker The Attacker

Corholio wrote: »

In fairness to Lerner, he has done exactly that in the past and got completely burned. Lambert got around £23m last season and about £16 million this summer, not huge numbers but not paltry either, especially considering the disastrous business done by previous managers. Out of all Lamberts signings (16 by my count), only Benteke IMO is the only one who can be considered a really good signing, actually I'll also give him Guzan too. He was always talked about as a manager who could do excellent with little money too, I've yet to see it in his signings if I'm honest.

He has bought 3 full backs and none of them can seem to defend, I'm not counting Bacuna as a full back even thought thats where he's been playing. A player he didn't sign, Delph, has been holding that midfield together for about 9 months now.

You mean the guy that actually won players player of the year and supporters payer of the year for our club last year.

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3170507,00.html

Brad Guzan was signed by Martin O'Neill. He was released around the time of euro 2012 and re-signed because it was confirmed that Shay Given was over the hill at that tournament.

Pyjamarama

When Benteke gets back into full flow he'll convert chances for you. I think Villa will be comfortable this season. 10-12 range or so.

kevpants

Zaha on loan in January rumour floating about now. Would be shrewd, nothing like a young talent with a point to prove having been completely shackled for the previous 6 months. Plus the boss's daughters are too young for him to make that mistake twice (allegedly)... I hope.

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

Only kinda. It was based on the fact that beyond the top 7, anyone in the league could finish anywhere with a bit of luck and some decent form. 8th should still be the target, and it's not beyond us at all. It sounds a lot better than it is in reality given the state of the league

This is some serious delusion. The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Newcastle and West Ham are miles ahead of Villa in terms of setup. When you see teams like Southampton and Swansea doing what they're doing, it is down to anything but luck.

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

In fairness to Lerner, he has done exactly that in the past and got completely burned. Lambert got around £23m last season and about £16 million this summer, not huge numbers but not paltry either, especially considering the disastrous business done by previous managers. Out of all Lamberts signings (16 by my count), only Benteke IMO is the only one who can be considered a really good signing, actually I'll also give him Guzan too. He was always talked about as a manager who could do excellent with little money too, I've yet to see it in his signings if I'm honest.

He has bought 3 full backs and none of them can seem to defend, I'm not counting Bacuna as a full back even thought thats where he's been playing. A player he didn't sign, Delph, has been holding that midfield together for about 9 months now.

Lambert shouldn't be punished for O'Neill's bad spending. If Lerner has given up on backing the club properly he should try sell up. Criticising some of Lambert's signings is fair enough, but it is made very difficult for him when he can't pay proper Premiership wages to signings.

Corholio

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You mean the guy that actually won players player of the year and supporters payer of the year for our club last year.

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3170507,00.html

Brad Guzan was signed by Martin O'Neill. He was released around the time of euro 2012 and re-signed because it was confirmed that Shay Given was over the hill at that tournament.

I dont know if youre agreeing or disagreeing with me. I pretty much said Guzan was a good signing.

Corholio

CSF wrote: »

Lambert shouldn't be punished for O'Neill's bad spending. If Lerner has given up on backing the club properly he should try sell up. Criticising some of Lambert's signings is fair enough, but it is made very difficult for him when he can't pay proper Premiership wages to signings.

Oh I know and I'm sure he's not, but it's hard to argue with Lerner's stance wage wise when you had the likes of Heskey, Sidwell and Harewood getting crazy wages. He knew the job when he was taking over too.

It could look different after the next 4 games though, West Ham (A), Cardiff (H), West Brom (A) and Sunderland (H). West Ham will be tricky, but being away, could be a possible win. The other 3 games are all winnable too. 10 out 12 points there would be great.

COYVB

CSF wrote: »

This is some serious delusion. The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Newcastle and West Ham are miles ahead of Villa in terms of setup. When you see teams like Southampton and Swansea doing what they're doing, it is down to anything but luck.

Southampton (level points), Newcastle (level points), West ham (+5 points) Swansea (+5 points)

miles ahead? Villa were dreadful for great swathes of last season, yet of those teams who are miles ahead of them, none managed to finish even 2 wins ahead of villa?

and this season...

Sounthampton (+7 points), Newcastle (+1 point), West Ham (-1 point), Swansea (+1 point). Villa had the hardest start in the league and yet only Southampton (who had among the easiest) out of the teams you claim are miles ahead of villa are more than a point ahead.

I think you need to reevaluate the standard of the premiership

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

Southampton (level points), Newcastle (level points), West ham (+5 points) Swansea (+5 points)

miles ahead? Villa were dreadful for great swathes of last season, yet of those teams who are miles ahead of them, none managed to finish even 2 wins ahead of villa?

and this season...

Sounthampton (+7 points), Newcastle (+1 point), West Ham (-1 point), Swansea (+1 point). Villa had the hardest start in the league and yet only Southampton (who had among the easiest) out of the teams you claim are miles ahead of villa are more than a point ahead.

I think you need to reevaluate the standard of the premiership

I'm referring to where these teams are relative to Villa in terms of their squad, and in terms of their ability to bring in quality players to bridge quality gaps in the team.

I'm not saying for a minute that every single one of teams will finish ahead of Villa this season, but there are too many teams ahead of Villa with their setup, and too many with a similar level in their setup for Villa to have realistic expectations of higher than 12th-15th.

COYVB

There'll likely be 5-6 points between 8th and 15th this season, because those teams are all at a similar level. If you think finishing 15th is realistic, then so is finishing 8th - that's just how tight the league is. For example, had we beaten West Ham on day 1 last year instead of losing, beaten Swansea instead of the 2-2 draw, and West Brom towards the end of the season instead of drawing, we'd have finished level on points with West Brom who were 8th and it wouldve been classed as a successful season. Instead, we finished 15th and it was a disaster. Those are the margins that separate 8th from 15th

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

There'll likely be 5-6 points between 8th and 15th this season, because those teams are all at a similar level. If you think finishing 15th is realistic, then so is finishing 8th - that's just how tight the league is. For example, had we beaten West Ham on day 1 last year instead of losing, beaten Swansea instead of the 2-2 draw, and West Brom towards the end of the season instead of drawing, we'd have finished level on points with West Brom who were 8th and it wouldve been classed as a successful season. Instead, we finished 15th and it was a disaster. Those are the margins that separate 8th from 15th

Those were the margins that separated 8th from 15th last season. Other teams have made real quality improvements to their first 11. Villa haven't. Also, requiring 3 wins against the teams above you to reel them in is less of a fine margin than you might imply. Significantly changing 3 results from any team against their closest rivals in the league table would have a significant effect. It is pretty close to 10% of the teams season that you're fiddling with the results of.

COYVB

CSF wrote: »

Those were the margins that separated 8th from 15th last season. Other teams have made real quality improvements to their first 11. Villa haven't. Also, requiring 3 wins against the teams above you to reel them in is less of a fine margin than you might imply. Significantly changing 3 results from any team against their closest rivals in the league table would have a significant effect. It is pretty close to 10% of the teams season that you're fiddling with the results of.

2012/13 - 8th: 49pts/15th: 41pts
2011/12 - 8th: 52pts/15th: 43pts
2010/11 - 8th: 49pts/15th: 42pts
2009/10 - 8th: 61pts/15th: 38pts
2008/09 - 8th: 51pts/15th: 41pts

There's only been once in the last 5 seasons that there was any kind of major gap separating 7 teams in the league

I'm aware that of what the changes are, but they're not exactly massive ones. 1-0 defeat into a win, and 2 draws into wins moving a team from 15th to joint 8th was used as an example of how tight it is. Other teams might have made good signings, but that doesn't mean that they're, by default, going to finish ahead of us, that's not how football works. Any team capable of finishing 15th in the Premier League is capable of finishing 8th.

I'm not using that to say Villa are good, I'm using it to illustrate that the overall standard of the league is not, and that the actual difference between the 8th placed team and 15th place team is minimal over the course of the majority of seasons, often with a couple of results enough to swing it

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

2012/13 - 8th: 49pts/15th: 41pts
2011/12 - 8th: 52pts/15th: 43pts
2010/11 - 8th: 49pts/15th: 42pts
2009/10 - 8th: 61pts/15th: 38pts
2008/09 - 8th: 51pts/15th: 41pts

There's only been once in the last 5 seasons that there was any kind of major gap separating 7 teams in the league

I'm aware that of what the changes are, but they're not exactly massive ones. 1-0 defeat into a win, and 2 draws into wins moving a team from 15th to joint 8th was used as an example of how tight it is. Other teams might have made good signings, but that doesn't mean that they're, by default, going to finish ahead of us, that's not how football works. Any team capable of finishing 15th in the Premier League is capable of finishing 8th.

I'm not using that to say Villa are good, I'm using it to illustrate that the overall standard of the league is not, and that the actual difference between the 8th placed team and 15th place team is minimal over the course of the majority of seasons, often with a couple of results enough to swing it

I get what you're saying, but it's not really making any particular point. The gaps separating midtable are never gigantic (due to the fact that there's only so many points these teams can pick up without being top 6 teams). The gap is similar enough (if not smaller) between 15th and relegation though.

This doesn't change the fact that the difference in expectations between a Southampton/Newcastle or a Hull/Crystal Palace should be massive though, when in theory the points gap between their expectations doesn't seem so much. The Premiership is a league in which wins are hard to come by, and therefore it's usually not that surprising who gets them.

I mean the amount of wins you're talking about improving by is near enough to half the amount of wins Villa actually got last season!!! The relatively small gap to bridge should bring optimism to Villa in the knowledge that with investment it is doable, but while those teams who already had better setups (Southampton, West Ham, Newcastle, Swansea) are making significant improvements to their first team and even Norwich who I wouldn't have considered to have a better setup last year, the gap is more likely to increase than decrease. If it does the opposite then Lambert has actually exceeded realistic expectations rather than met them.

COYVB

what significant improvements have newcastle made this summer? norwich aren't exactly pulling up trees either... in fact of those teams only really southampton are doing something that you'd look at as being a massive improvement - and even then i'd expect them to be within a point or 2 of villa by the new year

listermint

COYVB wrote: »

what significant improvements have newcastle made this summer? norwich aren't exactly pulling up trees either... in fact of those teams only really southampton are doing something that you'd look at as being a massive improvement - and even then i'd expect them to be within a point or 2 of villa by the new year

Exactly!

death1234567

CSF wrote: »

The likes of Southampton, Swansea, Newcastle and West Ham are miles ahead of Villa in terms of setup.

Nonsense. They are a bunch of midtable clubs, just like Villa, apart from Newcastle who are an accident waiting to happen.

mirwillbeback

Just thinking there about the fact that our last trophy win of any kind was over 17 years ago. In that time the following teams have secured silverware of some kind -

Leicester ( x2 )
Blackburn
Middlesborough
Birmingham
Swansea
Tottenham
Wigan
Man City
Portsmouth

Is that not a damning list of failures on behalf of Aston Villa. For such a well supported team, and a proud history that is truly terrible not to be competing for these trophies - we've been to only two cup finals since 96 and lost both.

How many millionaires has the club made along the way and for what return. It's embarassing.

CSF

death1234567 wrote: »

Nonsense. They are a bunch of midtable clubs, just like Villa, apart from Newcastle who are an accident waiting to happen.

Villa have not been safe in midtable for a number of years now. This is the delusion I speak of.

Newcastle brought in Remy, big signing. Norwich got Fer, Hooper, Van Wolfswinkel, Redmond. Swansea got Bony. I would have been happy with any business in that mould. Lambert has to take big enough risks with pretty much every transfer he makes.

COYVB

CSF wrote: »

Villa have not been safe in midtable for a number of years now. This is the delusion I speak of.

Villa have been no more than 3 points off midtable for the last decade

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

Villa have been no more than 3 points off midtable for the last decade

But are still coming off 15th and 16th place finishes. Lets go with the actual facts rather than what would have been the facts if Villa had won games they didn't win. And in the Premiership if you don't improve you will go backwards because other teams usually are improving. Lambert has had his hands tied and has had to take a pretty big risk in every transfer he makes meaning if he manages to elevate Villa up the table into a safer position (which obviously I hope he does) he'll have exceeded realistic expectations and will deserve bucketloads of praise.

Doodee

So Gabby is out as is Luna. Wonder what formation will be used. Might be good to see 4-4-2 with someone partnering Benteke.

I keep forgetting the NZogbia is still a Villa player. Still injured though, along with Benett. Might be a chance to test Lowton on the wing?

Patser

Guzan Lowton Clark Vlaar Baker Bacuna Sylla Westwood KEA Weimann Benteke

Haven't seen subs bench so don't know where Delph is but again interesting to see how that lines up. Assume Bacuna moved to midfield possibly right wing but who's on the left. Surprising without Gabby Tonev or Albrighton didn't get a run. Looks v defensive team to me.

Seen subs now, worryingly short on defensive options, Herd is only possibility, Delph missing.

Subs - Steer Herd Johnson Tonev Bowery Helenius Kozac

Patser

That sums up Weiamnn this season.

Released through on goal, with clear run on goal. Unable to outrun or outmuscle last defender, who he had a headstart on. I think he spent the summer bulking up and has lost his pace from last season

Doodee

would like to see Weimann subbed for Helenius at HT.
Midfield is non existant atm.

Doodee

Patser wrote: »

Surprising without Gabby Tonev or Albrighton didn't get a run. Looks v defensive team to me.



Subs - Steer Herd Johnson Tonev Bowery Helenius Kozac

Gabby is injured and Albrighton has gone to Wigan

Patser

Doodee wrote: »

Gabby is injured and Albrighton has gone to Wigan

I knew Gabby was out, didn't know about Albrighton:o

What I was saying is that with Gabby out, surprised another attacking option like Tonev wasn't tried.

Back to formation, Bacuna ended up at LB in a 5-3-2 (3-5-2?) formation but has been limping for last 10 minutes of that half, interested to see if he comes back out. We really have gone hoofball mad in this game.

JPA

This is torture.

Doodee

Just hoofing it up the field now

JPA

Can see Villa losing 1 nil.

Doodee

Is it just me or are the midfield sitting very deep?

Always seems like there is a huge distance between them and the strikers.

JPA

Doodee wrote: »

Is it just me or are the midfield sitting very deep?

Always seems like there is a huge distance between them and the strikers.

Delph is usually good for going on a few break out runs but none of the 3 today are capable of that.


Benteke thumps the crossbar, Damn.

JPA

Benteke nearly gets a winner, Jussi touchs it around the post.

Patser

0-0

West Ham so much possesion but no striker to hit - til Cole came on - we just hoofed and hoped. Kozac offered nothing as there was no supply, at least Benteke could run and control the ball. 3 games without a goal now.

Doodee

that was awful to watch. Thought the days of hoofing it up the pitch were supposed to be behind us.
Could even see Benteke being frustrated by it. The tempo and pressuring that was given against Everton was non-existant. Lowton's crossing wasn't utilised at all.

JPA

Cardiff at home next week.
3 points needed badly.

matrim

What happened to Lamberts possession football. It's not even direct counter attacking football right now it's just hoof ball.

The worst thing is that from what I saw the couple of times we did try to play the ball around we made good progress and got in and around the West Ham box.

kevpants

Really can't fault Lambert for what it looks like he's trying to do. Getting the balance of shoring up the team defensively whilst retaining the fear we put into teams in the latter half of last season. I reckon if Weimann hadn't decided to hit his period of the worst form of his career at the same time as we got a little meaner with conceding we'd look a lot healthier points wise.

Squad was pretty injury ravaged for the match when you consider we had no left sided defender (Baker doesn't count his forehead is his only useful extremity), missed our best midfielder and one of the fastest strikers in the Prem, considering the plan would be to counterattack.

listermint

I feeling a change in the winds from next week. Its in my bones. (positivity)