Nurses know medicine like air hostesses know aviation

Rasheed

Chucken wrote: »

I dont know about that. I tried to give a box of chocs to the nurses that took care of a family member and was told that they're not allowed to accept gifts.

We're told not to accept gifts but the day you can't accept a box of Rose or a nice box of USA biscuits is a sad day for nursing.

I don't know OP, I've work with quite a number of nurses, some smoke, some don't, some drink, some don't. I've nursed people dying from liver cirrhosis, brown in colour from their liver packing in, can't say I give it a lot of thought on a Saturday night when I'm drinking. Nursed bariatric patients but would still eat a kebab and enjoy it.

Information about how to keep healthy is so available now, nobody has the excuse that they 'didn't know better'.

As for the advice, just because they have a nurse qualification, doesn't mean they're short on common sense. I remember a colleague suggesting to a friend to put the grains of a antibiotic capsule into their eye to treat an eye infection.

Driveby Dogboy

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

love when people make generalisations about a group of people based on seeing 1/2 people

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Nurses are sexy.

:rolleyes:

goose2005

What did they say about breastfeeding that's "off the wall "?

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Nurses would be extremely stressed out from their jobs so a fag and high calorie foods would help it to lower their stress levels.

A lot of doctors drink heavily as well

hfallada

OP what's your point? A nurse with a 4 year degree and master often knows more than a GP on certain cancers. Plenty of doctors smoke and eat ****ty food. 90% of smokers start to smoke before the age of 18 therefore before becoming a nurse.

There is plenty of air hosts who can land a plane just as well as a pilot.

jr22

goose2005 wrote: »

What did they say about breastfeeding that's "off the wall "?

Not to bother breastfeeding basically, that formula was the way to go as soon as possible because the child would sleep better, we'd then sleep better and 'you'll know exactly how much the child is getting'. Genuinely, this was the consensus.

Tordelback

jr22 wrote: »

Not to bother breastfeeding basically, that formula was the way to go as soon as possible because the child would sleep better, we'd then sleep better and 'you'll know exactly how much the child is getting'. Genuinely, this was the consensus.

And in a country with consistent access to clean water and an active immunisation programme, this isn't automatically bad advice. Breastfeeding is superior in so many ways, but as we all know it can be difficult for many mothers and can cause terrible stress when it's not working - sometimes a rested, unstressed mother who can share the load with a partner is just as much a benefit.

As to the notion of nurses not understanding their own health needs due to medical ignorance - I have a couple of friends who are doctors, both drink far too much, eat any old crap and are prone to irrational levels of stress and irritability. Should I infer from this that they bought their medical licenses from Ian Paisley's alma mater?

jr22

Tordelback wrote: »

And in a country with consistent access to clean water and an active immunisation programme, this isn't automatically bad advice. Breastfeeding is superior in so many ways, but as we all know it can be difficult for many mothers and can cause terrible stress when it's not working - sometimes a rested, unstressed mother who can share the load with a partner is just as much a benefit.

As to the notion of nurses not understanding their own health needs due to medical ignorance - I have a couple of friends who are doctors, both drink far too much, eat any old crap and are prone to irrational levels of stress and irritability. Should I infer from this that they bought their medical licenses from Ian Paisley's alma mater?

It's absolutely sh!t advice.

jr22

Another nurse I know, a triage nurse, spends the bulk of his spare time quibbling with the diagnoses of consultants.

I spent a fairly scary night in hospital in the UK with an arrhythmia (atrial fibrillation) a few years back. I'd never heard the term until that night. All has been well since and I was back in action pretty much immediately after follow-up checks with consultant cardiologist and heart ultrasound etc.

Anyways, someone mentioned the term atrial fibrillation regarding a parent of theirs at a wedding and it sparked the sh!tty memory of the night in hospital so I mentioned my experience of a few years previous.

Well Jesus wept. I had to endure an evening being lectured by this guy, telling me that I was a hypochondriac and could not possibly have had this type of arrhythmia, that it was almost certainly just a panic attack. The cardiologist/ doctors/ nurses/ everyone was wrong (....at a University teaching hospital).

Bear in my mind that this guy is a triage nurse in an understaffed hospital in the South West of Ireland and the impact potential of his ignorance and arrogance is pretty fecking scary.

polydactyl

jr22 wrote: »

the child would sleep better, we'd then sleep better and 'you'll know exactly how much the child is getting'. Genuinely, this was the consensus.

Technically all of this is true. Bottle fed babies do sleep more therefore their parents sleep more and as there are ml markings on a bottle but not a breast you know exactly how much they are getting.

You are generalising a total group based on limited exposure. I have also heard nurses say " oh continue to exclusively breast feed with no formula" despite the child being admitted for IV fluids due to dehydration after unsuccessful breast feeding. I consider this also crap advice but don't tar all nurses because of a few comments.

jr22

polydactyl wrote: »

Technically all of this is true. Bottle fed babies do sleep more therefore their parents sleep more and as there are ml markings on a bottle but not a breast you know exactly how much they are getting.

This kind of advice, imparted by health professionals is partly why breastfeeding rates are so low and misses the point completely as regards the long-term unseen benefits of breastfeeding.

A self respecting professional would give advice founded on evidence based research having weighed up the pros and cons. The nurses I know don't generally breast feed their kids for very long if at all. I can only go on my experience of nurses that I know. When it's convenient for them, research is disregarded as as some sort of high falutin stuff that doesn't bear any relevance to everyday life.

Having a few pints would help an adult sleep better at night but it's hardly sound practice medically speaking.

jr22

wicklowstevo wrote: »

might be something to do with the 12 hour days and barely minimum wages have something to do with it. the putting up with the worst of jobs and still being warm and friendly while cleaning the crap off your grannies backside or stitching your face back together after you drunkenly fall on it.

Also nurses tend to catch a lot of doctors mistakes because of their experience and learned skills built up over years of working in the same job, as opposed to doctors who progresses through their careers as fast as possible to a consultant position .

in short don't be a bell end , thank a nurse kindly and if you don't want to take their advice don't take it

I spent 5+ years working as a care worker and nurse's aid.

Bed baths, crap wiping and long shifts came with the territory. I don't see how this experience, or that of a nurse in a similar position confers the right to give unsolicited medically suspect advice with an expectation that people should thank me and smile.

Jimoslimos

Simplifying:

Doctors: Diagnosing and prescribing treatment.
Nurses: Caring for patient, administration and monitoring treatment outcomes (results of which are fed back to the doctor).

You can't have a fully-functioning health system without both working in tandem. It should also be remembered that doctors can sometimes over-estimate their own level of expertise, especially in diagnosing conditions that would be better served with additional input from specialist medical scientists (e.g. pathology results)

Rasheed

jr22 wrote: »

Another nurse I know, a triage nurse, spends the bulk of his spare time quibbling with the diagnoses of consultants.

I spent a fairly scary night in hospital in the UK with an arrhythmia (atrial fibrillation) a few years back. I'd never heard the term until that night. All has been well since and I was back in action pretty much immediately after follow-up checks with consultant cardiologist and heart ultrasound etc.

Anyways, someone mentioned the term atrial fibrillation regarding a parent of theirs at a wedding and it sparked the sh!tty memory of the night in hospital so I mentioned my experience of a few years previous.

Well Jesus wept. I had to endure an evening being lectured by this guy, telling me that I was a hypochondriac and could not possibly have had this type of arrhythmia, that it was almost certainly just a panic attack. The cardiologist/ doctors/ nurses/ everyone was wrong (....at a University teaching hospital).

Bear in my mind that this guy is a triage nurse in an understaffed hospital in the South West of Ireland and the impact potential of his ignorance and arrogance is pretty fecking scary.

Quibbing with consultants when? At diagnosis time in the hospital? Consultants get it wrong too you know. Would you rather he silently reckon your diagnosis is wrong and let you continue on wrong treatment? So you met with a know-it-all tit at a wedding. Yup that's a fair consensus that nurses all give shiiite medical advise. As you're probably aware, no matter how ignorant or arrogant the nurse is while disagreeing you had afib, if you presented yourself in his A&E, he can't argue with an accurate ECG.

jr22 wrote: »

This kind of advice, imparted by health professionals is partly why breastfeeding rates are so low and misses the point completely as regards the long-term unseen benefits of breastfeeding.

A self respecting professional would give advice founded on evidence based research having weighed up the pros and cons. The nurses I know don't generally breast feed their kids for very long if at all. I can only go on my experience of nurses that I know. When it's convenient for them, research is disregarded as as some sort of high falutin stuff that doesn't bear any relevance to everyday life.

Having a few pints would help an adult sleep better at night but it's hardly sound practice medically speaking.

Glad you admitted that you that the bolded part. I could go on all night about my anecdotal evidents with nurses but in the heel of the hunt, it means sweet FA.

jr22 wrote: »

I spent 5+ years working as a care worker and nurse's aid.

Bed baths, crap wiping and long shifts came with the territory. I don't see how this experience, or that of a nurse in a similar position confers the right to give unsolicited medically suspect advice with an expectation that people should thank me and smile.

You say you don't have it in for nurse but I'm getting the distinct impression that you have. Were you envious of nurses that you worked with? Of their knowledge of medical conditions and training overs yours? Did some treat you badly? I could give plenty of anecdotal evidence of healthcare attendants I worked and trained with but we wouldn't like to tar all with one brush would we?

You don't see how a nurse could give medical advise? Despite having completed at least four years in college and having years of experience? Really? I have no doubt that some nurses give crap medical advise but most have the cop on not to.

rustedtrumpet

They're nurses not fackin wizards mate.

IM0

Nurses without a shadow of doubt in my experience are some of the most attractive women I've ever seen tbh, amazing figures most of them

jr22

Rasheed wrote: »

Quibbing with consultants when? At diagnosis time in the hospital? Consultants get it wrong too you know. Would you rather he silently reckon your diagnosis is wrong and let you continue on wrong treatment? So you met with a know-it-all tit at a wedding. Yup that's a fair consensus that nurses all give shiiite medical advise. As you're probably aware, no matter how ignorant or arrogant the nurse is while disagreeing you had afib, if you presented yourself in his A&E, he can't argue with an accurate ECG.



Glad you admitted that you that the bolded part. I could go on all night about my anecdotal evidents with nurses but in the heel of the hunt, it means sweet FA.



You say you don't have it in for nurse but I'm getting the distinct impression that you have. Were you envious of nurses that you worked with? Of their knowledge of medical conditions and training overs yours? Did some treat you badly? I could give plenty of anecdotal evidence of healthcare attendants I worked and trained with but we wouldn't like to tar all with one brush would we?

You don't see how a nurse could give medical advise? Despite having completed at least four years in college and having years of experience? Really? I have no doubt that some nurses give crap medical advise but most have the cop on not to.

I enjoyed the care/ nurses aid work that I did, I was in no way mistreated and can see myself doing the job again in the future as a stopgap or if the need arises. I'm not envious of nurses or their qualifications or knowledge, I'm fairly well qualified in another field (...finishing a PhD) and the job was never a career move for me. For the most part the nurses I worked with were legends.

All that said, they are the last people I would take medical advice from. I don't think it's their place to give it because in my own experience it's been worse than useless, misguided and sometimes outright dangerous, in and out of hospitals.

A lot of nurses I've worked with seem to feel patronised or condescended to by doctors. As a result doling out medical advice seems to be a way that they boost their own self image and confidence. I don't think their training equips them to critically evaluate medical literature and statistics, weigh up the grey areas and unknowns and arrive at a well founded conclusion. That's what doctors, epidemiologists, and medical researchers do.

For hospitals to function, complex medical issues are out of necessity dumbed down as the information moves down the chain of command. This way everyone knows what their particular role is in an operating theatre or a ward day to day. To think that nurses could have the complete picture or knowledge from their work experience to impart medical advice is dangerous territory.

My sister is a GP, my brother is a physio. They worked hard to get where they are and there was no silver spoons involved, my parents didn't even get to secondary school. I have plenty of extended family members who are nurses. Off the job, my brother and sister don't offer advice unless pushed very hard and even then will stress the need for a proper consultation and apply all sorts of caveats to any advice they might give. Aunts and cousins who are nurses and are far less qualified to give medical advice always seem the most ready to give it, even when it's not wanted or needed. That's my experience, it's not anecdotal, it's just what I've come across in a range of situations.

osarusan

jr22 wrote: »

My sister is a GP, my brother is a physio. They worked hard to get where they are and there was no silver spoons involved, my parents didn't even get to secondary school. I have plenty of extended family members who are nurses. Off the job, my brother and sister don't offer advice unless pushed very hard and even then will stress the need for a proper consultation and apply all sorts of caveats to any advice they might give. Aunts and cousins who are nurses and are far less qualified to give medical advice always seem the most ready to give it, even when it's not wanted or needed. That's my experience, it's not anecdotal, it's just what I've come across in a range of situations.

Using your own family members as evidence - it's the definition of anecdotal.

jr22

osarusan wrote: »

Using your own family members as evidence - it's the definition of anecdotal.

I mean that it's my first hand experience, not based on someone else's experience or hearsay.

osarusan

jr22 wrote: »

I mean that it's my first hand experience, not based on someone else's experience or hearsay.

Yes, but it's your experience, so they're your anecdotes. When I read them, they are someone else's experiences and hearsay.

Anecdotal evidence is always somebody's first-hand experience.

drkpower

jr22 wrote: »

I'm fairly well qualified in another field (...finishing a PhD)... .

jr22 wrote: »

I mean that it's my first hand experience, not based on someone else's experience or hearsay.

PhD's know evidential analysis like air hostesses know aviation.

hardCopy

The Backwards Man wrote: »

'I shagged a cabin crew last night'

All of them?

jr22

[QUOTE=osarusan;86351211

Anecdotal eveidence is always somebody's first-hand experience.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily, it might have no basis in reality at all.

It was this perjorative sense of anecdotal that I took exception to.

The claims I'm making are based on anecdotal evidence, but there's more to the term 'anecdotal' than a single definition.

YFlyer

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Nurses would be extremely stressed out from their jobs so a fag and high calorie foods would help it to lower their stress levels.

Much better stress management techniques available than smoking.

jimmycrackcorm

Op will be shocked to learn that done gynaecologists are actually male. Not linking their profession to their sex...

jr22

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Op will be shocked to learn that done gynaecologists are actually male. Not linking their profession to their sex...

Jaysus, airhosts or airhost/ess just didn't work for the thread title, neither did cabin crew members. The focus group just weren't feeling it.

Sorry if I've offended your gender neutral sensibilities. I will try harder to think of nurses and cabin crew as having big mickeys from now on.

Ace Attorney

jr22 wrote: »

I enjoyed the care/ nurses aid work that I did, I was in no way mistreated and can see myself doing the job again in the future as a stopgap or if the need arises. I'm not envious of nurses or their qualifications or knowledge, I'm fairly well qualified in another field (...finishing a PhD) and the job was never a career move for me.

All that said, they are the last people I would take medical advice from. I don't think it's their place to give it because in my own experience it's been worse than useless, misguided and sometimes outright dangerous, in and out of hospitals.

A lot of nurses I've worked with seem to feel patronised or condescended to by doctors. As a result doling out medical advice seems to be a way that they boost their own self image and confidence. I don't think their training equips them to critically evaluate medical literature and statistics, weigh up the grey areas and unknowns and arrive at a well founded conclusion. That's what doctors, epidemiologists, and medical researchers do.

For hospitals to function, complex medical issues are out of necessity dumbed down as the information moves down the chain of command. This way everyone knows what their particular role is in an operating theatre or a ward day to day. To think that nurses could have the complete picture or knowledge from their work experience to impart medical advice is dangerous territory.

My sister is a GP, my brother is a physio. They worked hard to get where they are and there was no silver spoons involved, my parents didn't even get to secondary school. I have plenty of extended family members who are nurses. Off the job, my brother and sister don't offer advice unless pushed very hard and even then will stress the need for a proper consultation and apply all sorts of caveats to any advice they might give. Aunts and cousins who are nurses and are far less qualified to give medical advice always seem the most ready to give it, even when it's not wanted or needed. That's my experience, it's not anecdotal, it's just what I've come across in a range of situations.

That seems dangerously close to anecdotal if not borderline confirmation bias. A few know it all aunts and cousins is not great evidence

jr22

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHHHH wrote: »

That seems dangerously close to anecdotal if not borderline confirmation bias. A few know it all aunts and cousins is not great evidence

Read post #53

I'm not making a scientific claim, I'm giving my experience. I don't expect the thread to be published in The Lancet ffs.

In the absence of any known scientific literature on the sh!teness of the medical advice of nurses here's what you get. My experience of it.

Single case studies are ten a penny in medicine. I've come across plenty of single case studies in neuropsychology literature. They could be shoved under the banner of anecdotal evidence if that's what we're going to focus on.

Ace Attorney

jr22 wrote: »

Read post #53

I have indeed, But again, a few know it all aunts and cousins are not great evidence to use

Locker10a

I think as you called them " air hostesses " know allot more about aviation and the planes they work on then you as a passenger see on your standard flight! And You generalisation about nurses is totally wrong in my opinion! There is nothing wrong with not breastfeeding your baby! And besides all the nurses i know dont smoke and lead healthy lives, as most people try to do ! You dont need to be a doctor or nurse to know whats healthy or whats unhealthy!
OP i think you need to broaden your mind a little bit

tallus

Having been in hospital and experienced the post operative and pre operative treatment from nurses, I have nothing but the absolute height of respect for Nurses in general, and the nursing profession.
They went above and beyond the call of duty. I'd go so far as to say its more of a vocation than a job.
That's my experience.