Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod request post#5808

Nuri Sahin

Well that was quite pleasant viewing, I do say, sir.

Kerrigooney

That'll do nicely.

Turtyturd

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Well that was quite pleasant viewing, I do say, sir.

No need for that.

aramush

And another positive weekend for Liverpool winds down

Morzadec

Morzadec wrote: »

Updated table sees us climb to joint 2nd:

1. Arsenal: +2.5 points
2. Liverpool -0.5 points
2. Chelsea: -0.5 points
4: United: -2 points
5: Tottenham: -2.5 points
6: Everton: -3 points
7: Man City: -3.5 points

We slip to 3rd in my alternative table, but a point away to Everton keeps us basically bang on track. We also gain a point on United, Spurs and Everton, who are increasingly looking like the teams we will have to target to finish ahead of to get into the top 4, so all in all we can be content with the weekend.


1. Arsenal: +3 points
2. Chelsea: +0.5 points
3. Liverpool: -0.5 points
4. Man City: -2.5 points
5. Man United: -3 points
6. Spurs: -3.5 points
7. Everton: -4 points

Agueroooo

From Twitter:

What time does Spurs kick off at??

Every 15 minutes.

klose

Agueroooo wrote: »

From Twitter:

What time does Spurs kick off at??

Every 15 minutes.

Ive lost count of the amount of times ive seen the vertonghen "little update, we're sh!te" tweet too

plannerscanner

Exciting, exhilarating, breath-taking. Words that are associated with great and not-so-great games alike. This weekends derby will not go down as one of the greats even though it was all of the aforementioned descriptives.

At times the defending, midfield play and finishing were all horrendous. Neither team ever looked in control of what they were attempting to achieve except for a 20 min spell in the first half when Everton looked by far the better team. That they managed to score one and concede 2 in that time points markedly to their status as a top 6 team at best. As for their opponents - well I hope it was a case of being dragged into a toe-to-toe affair as opposed to any deepset problems.

Credit to certain players though. John Flanagan deputised well on the left and the Cissoko project seems to be over almost as soon as it began. He was solid in defence bar a few slips late on, covered runs from the right across the box very well and in contrast to the Arsenal game managed to get forward on numerous occasions which all bodes well for his continued presence in the team.

Mig - excellent at what he does best but distribution letting him down. No doubt he is working on this but I wouldn't expect to see much improvement until at least the start of next season. It's a very weak part of his game and as much work as he can do on it the benefits will take a lot longer than a few weeks to be seen.

Joe Allen is being harshly and unfairly criticised on this forum. By the time of his missed opportunity yesterday he was playing at the top of a 3 almost in behind Suarez. This is not his natural position and I for one cannot apportion huge blame to him for the chance he spurned. As long as Lucas and more importantly Gerrard continue to play in his preferred position Allen will find it difficult to put his particular stamp on a game. I am hoping that the home game against Norwich will be his chance to prove he can control the middle of the park. More so as it is sorely needed.

Time and again Everton penetrated Liverpool's midfield. It was embarrassing towards the end. I am still firmly behind Rodgers but please don't go on about the possession game and death by football if Liverpool can only carry this out against weak opposition at Anfield. Where are the 2 performances against Man City of last season gone??

I won't go on as this is a long post but yesterdays game worries me. If that type of football is repeated against opposition even slightly better than Everton then I can see nothing but a swift drop in places by the start of January.

Other topics that infuriated me yesterday were - Daniel Agger, Couthinho's anonymity, Gerrards lack of mobility, and almost complete lack of desire to get hold of the ball and dictate the pace of the game as a Top 4 side would be expected tp do.

djPSB

plannerscanner wrote: »

Exciting, exhilarating, breath-taking. Words that are associated with great and not-so-great games alike. This weekends derby will not go down as one of the greats even though it was all of the aforementioned descriptives.

At times the defending, midfield play and finishing were all horrendous. Neither team ever looked in control of what they were attempting to achieve except for a 20 min spell in the first half when Everton looked by far the better team. That they managed to score one and concede 2 in that time points markedly to their status as a top 6 team at best. As for their opponents - well I hope it was a case of being dragged into a toe-to-toe affair as opposed to any deepset problems.

Credit to certain players though. John Flanagan deputised well on the left and the Cissoko project seems to be over almost as soon as it began. He was solid in defence bar a few slips late on, covered runs from the right across the box very well and in contrast to the Arsenal game managed to get forward on numerous occasions which all bodes well for his continued presence in the team.

Mig - excellent at what he does best but distribution letting him down. No doubt he is working on this but I wouldn't expect to see much improvement until at least the start of next season. It's a very weak part of his game and as much work as he can do on it the benefits will take a lot longer than a few weeks to be seen.

Joe Allen is being harshly and unfairly criticised on this forum. By the time of his missed opportunity yesterday he was playing at the top of a 3 almost in behind Suarez. This is not his natural position and I for one cannot apportion huge blame to him for the chance he spurned. As long as Lucas and more importantly Gerrard continue to play in his preferred position Allen will find it difficult to put his particular stamp on a game. I am hoping that the home game against Norwich will be his chance to prove he can control the middle of the park. More so as it is sorely needed.

Time and again Everton penetrated Liverpool's midfield. It was embarrassing towards the end. I am still firmly behind Rodgers but please don't go on about the possession game and death by football if Liverpool can only carry this out against weak opposition at Anfield. Where are the 2 performances against Man City of last season gone??

I won't go on as this is a long post but yesterdays game worries me. If that type of football is repeated against opposition even slightly better than Everton then I can see nothing but a swift drop in places by the start of January.

Other topics that infuriated me yesterday were - Daniel Agger, Couthinho's anonymity, Gerrards lack of mobility, and almost complete lack of desire to get hold of the ball and dictate the pace of the game as a Top 4 side would be expected tp do.

Jeez imagine you were a Spurs fan.

Grayditch

djPSB wrote: »

Jeez imagine you were a Spurs fan.

It's a good thing they have an entire forum so, I suppose.

They have room for a thread dicussing every goal today. Well maybe not that much room...

brevity

plannerscanner wrote: »

Joe Allen is being harshly and unfairly criticised on this forum. By the time of his missed opportunity yesterday he was playing at the top of a 3 almost in behind Suarez. This is not his natural position and I for one cannot apportion huge blame to him for the chance he spurned. As long as Lucas and more importantly Gerrard continue to play in his preferred position Allen will find it difficult to put his particular stamp on a game. I am hoping that the home game against Norwich will be his chance to prove he can control the middle of the park. More so as it is sorely needed.

I think Allen should start against Norwich, he needs to get that miss out of his head and regain confidence.

The only problem, which you alluded to, is Gerrard is in his position and Allen cannot play the Henderson role of running around the place.

What Rodgers could do is start Gerrard but bring Allen on after 60 minutes or vice versa.

mike65

The next few games are where I WANT to see more of Allen and less of Gerrard.

U21s are playing PSV on Wednesday another behind closes doors affair.

bishopmuzorewa

Grayditch wrote: »

It's a good thing they have an entire forum so, I suppose.

They have room for a thread dicussing every goal today. Well maybe not that much room...

We're saving all the goals for ye in 3 weeks time.

Augmerson

Why do Spurs fans have their own forum?

mike65

Augmerson wrote: »

Why do Spurs fans have their own forum?

Back in the Neolithic era a mod with powerful friends in the Admins put forward a request and it was granted.

5starpool

Augmerson wrote: »

Why do Spurs fans have their own forum?

I believe the reason is that one was created in the days when hosted forums were being created for most requests and there was a compliant admin at hand. Chelsea have their own as well I believe as social groups above a certain size were automatically converted into hosted forums. Those existing are not grounds for other ones being created, etc, etc, no point going into it. It's old ground that has been gone over many times before and the discussion won't be allowed on here anyhow.

Morzadec

Just looking at the next 3 fixtures -

We have Hull, Norwich and West Ham

United have Spurs, Everton and Newcastle.

Vital that we make some points on them over these games

Agueroooo

Lads take each game as they come and don't look past the next 90mins of football.

Anything else and you will let down more times than not.

Morzadec

Morzadec wrote: »

Just looking at the next 3 fixtures -

We have Hull, Norwich and West Ham

United have Spurs, Everton and Newcastle.

Vital that we make some points on them over these games

Augmerson

Where's that German/Turkish lad we signed who was going to be great? Not Sahin. He is still at the club.

5starpool

Augmerson wrote: »

Where's that German/Turkish lad we signed who was going to be great? Not Sahin. He is still at the club.

Samid Yesil. Was out for nearly a year after doing his cruciate and is only slowly making hus way back now.

plannerscanner

brevity wrote: »

I think Allen should start against Norwich, he needs to get that miss out of his head and regain confidence.

The only problem, which you alluded to, is Gerrard is in his position and Allen cannot play the Henderson role of running around the place.

What Rodgers could do is start Gerrard but bring Allen on after 60 minutes or vice versa.

I tend to disagree. Allen needs to be given a vote of confidence after Saturday. He needs to start and be told that if he performs then then the position is his. Unfortunately Rodgers cannot wait until Gerrard gets injured to do the right thing. Weighing up the pros and cons of no Gerrard is a bit more difficult. But I would prefer a more solid midfield even if that meant set piece delivery took a hit.

Agueroooo

Watch Lucas in the wall

Agueroooo

Agueroooo wrote: »

Watch Lucas in the wall

Well spotted.

I wonder was that for the benefit of Agger if he was to take it?

mav79

plannerscanner wrote: »

I tend to disagree. Allen needs to be given a vote of confidence after Saturday. He needs to start and be told that if he performs then then the position is his. Unfortunately Rodgers cannot wait until Gerrard gets injured to do the right thing. Weighing up the pros and cons of no Gerrard is a bit more difficult. But I would prefer a more solid midfield even if that meant set piece delivery took a hit.

I agree Allen should play next week but I'd leave Henderson out, and bring him on for the last half hour. Imo Henderson looked the worst of the four midfielders on Saturday.

Kerrigooney

^^^ Haha. You beat me to it by minutes

EDIT: Posting the gif,I mean.

Agueroooo

rarnes1 wrote: »

Well spotted.

I wonder was that for the benefit of Agger if he was to take it?

Would have had to have been cause can't see how pushing players to close a gap that Suarez is trying to shoot through can help:p

Morzadec

It made no difference - ironically it might have even prevented the goal if Lukaku had banged into Barkley (who then would've banged into Barry, potentially blocking the shot).

Ref might've even blown for a foul if he had spotted it, so prob not a clever move from Lucas!

Hannibal

Morzadec wrote: »

Just looking at the next 3 fixtures -

We have Hull, Norwich and West Ham

United have Spurs, Everton and Newcastle.

Vital that we make some points on them over these games

after that we have Spurs, Cardiff, City, Chelsea with all away bar Cardiff. 15 points from them 7 games would be a nice hall from the next 7 preferably taking points off Spurs in there. 39 points from 19 games would be a very good half season mark with Everton Arsenal Spurs Chelsea City all still facing trips to Anfield

plannerscanner

mav79 wrote: »

I agree Allen should play next week but I'd leave Henderson out, and bring him on for the last half hour. Imo Henderson looked the worst of the four midfielders on Saturday.

Just to make myself clear - I want Allen to start the Norwich game. The Hull game is a little too sticky to be making marked changes. Also Allen deserves to the chance to play against weaker opposition at home to begin to prove himself.

As for Henderson, I would find it hard to drop a player who is willing to run to the ends of the earth for the team. On the right of a 5 man midfield does not suit him whatsoever. Don't underestimate the difficulties facing a central midfielder when asked to play wide right. With the middle reducing to 4 or even 3 next time out I expect him to be far more effective.

Milkers

rarnes1 wrote: »

Well spotted.

I wonder was that for the benefit of Agger if he was to take it?

Maybe to disrupt the timed jump of the wall? May also have accidentally contributed to interfering with Howard's line of sight - he was quite late reacting.

livinginkorea

plannerscanner wrote: »

Just to make myself clear - I want Allen to start the Norwich game. The Hull game is a little too sticky to be making marked changes. Also Allen deserves to the chance to play against weaker opposition at home to begin to prove himself.

As for Henderson, I would find it hard to drop a player who is willing to run to the ends of the earth for the team. On the right of a 5 man midfield does not suit him whatsoever. Don't underestimate the difficulties facing a central midfielder when asked to play wide right. With the middle reducing to 4 or even 3 next time out I expect him to be far more effective.

I think Hendo will get better and better.

LuckyLloyd

Joe Allen will stop being criticized when he forced his way into the team regularly and plays well regularly. Not selected when fit? His fault. Doesn't play well when he's selected? His fault. Makes major errors? His fault.

He's a £15m signing who had coming on 150 senior games under his belt before he arrived. Just do it. The criticism fades quickly when you perform, and all the excuses in the world won't make up for a lack of positive impact for the first eleven.

MD1990

Henderson has been superb this season imo
i certainly wouldn't be dropping him

livinginkorea

Could be the replacement for Stevie next year or the year after. Just has to lead a little more I think.

plannerscanner

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Joe Allen will stop being criticized when he forced his way into the team regularly and plays well regularly. Not selected when fit? His fault. Doesn't play well when he's selected? His fault. Makes major errors? His fault.

He's a £15m signing who had coming on 150 senior games under his belt before he arrived. Just do it. The criticism fades quickly when you perform, and all the excuses in the world won't make up for a lack of positive impact for the first eleven.

Correct on the senior games count - but remember where he played getting those starts. Also, when given the opportunity to play in his preferred position at the beginning of last season he did well. How do you force your way into a team when Lucas and Gerrard seem to have guaranteed spots where you should be? He missed one good chance - it's not a million years ago when the great Suarez was better at missing them than slotting them. Don't revert to simplistic 'if he's good enough' rhetoric LL. I have followed many of your posts and you are capable of better than that.

smileyj1987

MD1990 wrote: »

Henderson has been superb this season imo
i certainly wouldn't be dropping him

To me the weak link in the team has to be Stevie , I don't think he has a full 90 mins in him anymore . To me when I watch him play it's a case the head is telling him to do something and the body just can't do it anymore . I Know some people will say he has so many assists the last few games but to me it's a case of him just not having the energy from a few years ago .

Allen has it all to prove still. This season is make or break for him.

Macker1

Whats the story with Kolo not getting a run ???

smileyj1987

smileyj1987 wrote: »

To me the weak link in the team has to be Stevie , I don't think he has a full 90 mins in him anymore . To me when I watch him play it's a case the head is telling him to do something and the body just can't do it anymore . I Know some people will say he has so many assists the last few games but to me it's a case of him just not having the energy from a few years ago .

Gerrard isn't suited to a 3 man midfield. Far too exposed and he hasn't the legs anymore. The dogs on the street know this.

He will however be picked every game for the rest of the season and probably next season too.

livinginkorea

smileyj1987 wrote: »

To me the weak link in the team has to be Stevie , I don't think he has a full 90 mins in him anymore . To me when I watch him play it's a case the head is telling him to do something and the body just can't do it anymore . I Know some people will say he has so many assists the last few games but to me it's a case of him just not having the energy from a few years ago .

I think he would be great as an impact sub for most games where we need something off the bench.

Hoki

The Allen bashing is quite comical , the guy has 103 mins of football under his belt for the season. Anyone one else would be afforded a 'bedding in after injury' period but it seems he is ineligible for this train of thought.

smileyj1987

livinginkorea wrote: »

I think he would be great as an impact sub for most games where we need something off the bench.

We could also play him for 60 mins and sub him then . That could work well for him and give us abit of old school Stevie as in he can go all out for 60 mins

Kerrigooney

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard isn't suited to a 3 man midfield. Far too exposed and he hasn't the legs anymore. The dogs on the street know this.

He will however be picked every game for the rest of the season and probably next season too.

I agree but it fills me with dread.

livinginkorea

smileyj1987 wrote: »

We could also play him for 60 mins and sub him then . That could work well for him and give us abit of old school Stevie as in he can go all out for 60 mins

Ya for sure, for the big games we can start him. I would much prefer to see the others getting used to that midfield now.

livinginkorea

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I agree but it fills me with dread.

I think it fills nearly every supporter with dread. BR will have to make the tough call eventually.

Agent Coulson

If Gerrard is going to be a starter in every game which is very likely he needs to be taken out of the centre of midfield and moved to the right or just behind the front two. Leaving him in the middle puts to much pressure on the other midfielders watching and covering for the mistakes he is now making every game. His assists in the last few game which are very welcome are also covering up a lot of the mistakes he is making.

Nuri Sahin

Hoki wrote: »

The Allen bashing is quite comical , the guy has 103 mins of football under his belt for the season. Anyone one else would be afforded a 'bedding in after injury' period but it seems he is ineligible for this train of thought.

Bottler, flop, etc, etc, etc.

GTFO Hoki :pac:

Nuri Sahin

Just on Allen, thought he played well on Saturday up until spurning that chance. In a perfect world, you'd have had Gerrard or Coutinho (he'd have passed it you'd imagine), maybe Henderson in his position. Not trying to excuse him, because it was an appalling miss, but if he has a future here, I don't want to see him playing CAM. I understand Suarez was upset, but I remember from the Arsenal game Suarez not squaring the ball to Sturridge soon after going 2-0 down at the Emirates. Players don't always make the right decisions, even the best ones.

Hopefully Gerrard gets a rest and we see him in that CM spot between Coutinho and Lucas against Norwich.

Just on Coutinho, I think people are reading into his performance a little too much. I've seen enough signs in the last three games to show he'll get back to his best form again. Scoring goals is something that's been noted that he needs to add to his game to make the next step in his development, and at least he provided that in the derby, despite being quiet for the most part.

daithijjj

Gerrard doesnt need to be dropped. Ye are looking at things the wrong way around. In some ways id love to see him dropped for a couple of games so people could get their wish and see Joe Allen come in for him, with Gerrard nowhere in sight. After a couple of totally boring midfield displays with no midfielder who can pass it long, or cross a ball into the box etc, we could then all get back to the notion that Gerrard is the best we got .....still.

In reality the club should have/be buying a player who both gives us what Gerrard cannot do anymore and also another CM who can carry the ball and has presence.

In actuality, we will probably see plenty of Allen regardless, whether he is any use or not, it wont really matter, he will get the chances. my only gripe is that it may be at the expense of the club getting their finger out and doing what was blatantly evident 12 months ago.

Gerrard really isnt to blame here. Suarez should have buried his cross, Sturridge did bury his cross, what did Joe Allen contribute?, what key thing did he do all game?. I saw fk all tbh apart from a contender for miss of the season.

Gerrard is not being excused either, he has good days and bad, that's what comes with age and everything else. The club needs to address this. Address it by purchasing, not dropping for average players, which Joe Allen is tbh. Nothing i have seen makes him better than that so far. One thing i am sure of, we wont solve the issue by wasting time with the like of Alberto, harsh i know, but accurate imo. Midfielder/s should have been bought in the summer, we tried, we didnt get them, we deal with the consequences of the tightened belt, i only wish we extended the tightened belt to the like of Alberto and Aspas, who imo will amount to nothing at the club. Sitting here reading criticism of Henderson, im just asking myself, who is contributing the most to our cause from this group of players that significant money was spent on....

Aspas/Borini/Allen/Alberto/Henderson. £50m+. Not even a contest tbh. Lets just get it right with the finger pointing. Obvious to me. The club itself as an entity.

Spent all summer going for a midfielder, and, in actual fact only bought one, who to be fair, is probably not near as good as what we sold to Swansea. Thats the facts right there peeps as i see em. We can criticise Gerrard all we like, what i do know is, Allen or Lucas arent gonna be putting in the crosses that Sturridge scored from and Suarez missed from. The answer lies below....