Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

BloodBath

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When people say we will be destroyed by arsenal thats when you need to take time out.

I said if Arsenal continue playing the way they are and we continue playing the way we are that they would destroy us. I stand by that. If you want to see a good midfield in action watch Arsenal.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Our best 11 is

DDG
Raf Rio/Smalling Vidic Evra
Carrick Fellaini
Nani Rooney Kagawa
RVP

IMO, and I could be mistaken but I don't think we've seen that lineup yet.

Rio is awful. I don't buy the crap that he was good last year. He wasn't and he's even worse this year. He's been on a fast downward decline in the last few years. Vidic carried him. I still stand by the opinion that we can't play Carrick and Fellaini in midfield and expect to be good unless they both up their game big time. I would like to see that team minus Rio play a game though with Fellaini getting further forward and Carrick holding.

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

I said if Arsenal continue playing the way they are and we continue playing the way we are that they would destroy us. I stand by that. If you want to see a good midfield in action watch Arsenal.



Rio is awful. I don't buy the crap that he was good last year. He wasn't and he's even worse this year. He's been on a fast downward decline in the last few years. Vidic carried him. I still stand by the opinion that we can't play Carrick and Fellaini in midfield and expect to be good unless they both up their game big time. I would like to see that team minus Rio play a game though with Fellaini getting further forward and Carrick holding.

You don't got to buy anything, that **** sells itself

He was brilliant last year, go back and watch the games again, if you come back and still think he was "awful" last season.....well, I dunno Ill probably just accept that we can never enter a proper dialogue and ignore you completely from now on.

TL;DR

Your off your head if you think Rio was no good last year

The_Kew_Tour

BloodBath wrote: »

I said if Arsenal continue playing the way they are and we continue playing the way we are that they would destroy us. I stand by that. If you want to see a good midfield in action watch Arsenal.


.

To clear when you say destroy is that

On scoreboard?

Posession?

Or both?

kryogen

Not getting over excited about Arsenal, if they keep everybody fit, the lift and quality Ozil brings to them could really make them title contenders, genuine title contenders. I don't think they will keep everybody fit though, and they have no cover at the back or up front really, the wheels will come off there. Lets see where they are in the league at Christmas.

Mitch Connor

Just seen on SSN that Carrick's contract is up in the summer.

feckin hell - we do love leaving these things late!

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Just seen on SSN that Carrick's contract is up in the summer.

feckin hell - we do love leaving these things late!

Its the policy on players 30+ to leave them till the last season and only give short contracts, but leaving his get this low is a mistake, just tie him up for another 3 years and get it done!

The thought of him leaving on a free doesn't bear thinking about

IamtheWalrus

Watching the recent USA SAF interview reminding me how much I miss the man.

bucketybuck

BloodBath wrote: »

Rio is awful. I don't buy the crap that he was good last year.

Your problem is that you keep coming out with statements like these that are just patently rubbish, it makes it harder and harder to justify bothering to read your posts.

Rio was sublime last season, the difference he made when he settled back into the team was immense. He wasn't named on the team of the year through sentiment you know, he damn well deserved it.

BloodBath

kryogen wrote: »

You don't got to buy anything, that **** sells itself

He was brilliant last year, go back and watch the games again, if you come back and still think he was "awful" last season.....well, I dunno Ill probably just accept that we can never enter a proper dialogue and ignore you completely from now on.

TL;DR

Your off your head if you think Rio was no good last year

I said he's awful at the moment as in this season. He might not have been awful last season but he was far from brilliant. Either way based on the 7 games he's played so far this season he should not even be on the team sheet.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

To clear when you say destroy is that

On scoreboard?

Posession?

Or both?

We are stronger in defence and have better strikers and probably a better goalkeeper but their midfield is going to run rings around ours. I wouldn't expect a hammering but I don't see us beating them. Probably about 60% possession for Arsenal and a 2-1 scoreline for them. That's at Old Trafford. I could see them winning 3-1 at the Emirates but who knows how things will change by then.

The_Kew_Tour

Arsenal could win the treple .

Who knows.

But they sure have a lott to prove.

9 years without a trophy and it should be 10 häd we decided we to take 1 chance that day.

So i apologise if i dont lose sleep over them just yet

Mitch Connor

kryogen wrote: »

Its the policy on players 30+ to leave them till the last season and only give short contracts, but leaving his get this low is a mistake, just tie him up for another 3 years and get it done!

The thought of him leaving on a free doesn't bear thinking about

Indeed.

Of course we will get loads of fans saying he isn't good enough and should be let go.

Which I could actually agree with if Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher and Giggs are all moved on and replaced with top talent BEFORE we even think of letting Carrick leave.

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Indeed.

Of course we will get loads of fans saying he isn't good enough and should be let go.

Which I could actually agree with if Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher and Giggs are all moved on and replaced with top talent BEFORE we even think of letting Carrick leave.

Exactly, its all relative, if Carrick was in the Bayern squad or, well, anybody with a good group of central midfield players then you could make an argument to just let him go or at least that he isn't a priority to nail down to a new deal.

However, considering the rest of our midfield he is absolutely vital, he is still the best we have, this is as much an indictment of how our midfield has been neglected as it is a compliment to him.

Rayne Wooney

If it's another negative team tomorrow I'll go mad Ted.

BloodBath

He wasn't named on the team of the year through sentiment you know

I also hate this argument. Being on the team of the year means nothing. It's a biassed bull**** award. Carrick didn't deserve to be on the team of the year either but they have to throw a couple of English players from the title winners in there.

bullvine

Arsenal?? really early days, Villa were brilliant in 98-99 until the wheels came off. Arsenal started very well in 2007 if I remember and soon it ended in tears.

bullvine

BloodBath wrote: »

I also hate this argument. Being on the team of the year means nothing. It's a biassed bull**** award. Carrick didn't deserve to be on the team of the year either but they have to throw a couple of English players from the title winners in there.

? Carrick?? what the hell!

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

I also hate this argument. Being on the team of the year means nothing. It's a biassed bull**** award. Carrick didn't deserve to be on the team of the year either but they have to throw a couple of English players from the title winners in there.

Im trying Bloodbath, im really trying.

BloodBath

Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree. I know I'm barking up the wrong tree saying that on a United thread anyway.

Rayne Wooney

Someone's digging their way to China at this rate

tallaghtmick

Moyes out? What are we Liverpool fans now?

BloodBath

Considering there was 4 midfielders chosen last year though, one being Carrick, do you really think he deserved a place in the team of the year ahead of Michu, Cazorla, Toure, Fellaini, Gerrard, Walcott?

I'm a United fan but I'm not blind and I don't buy the English medias over rating of him either. He's a good solid midfielder but world class? No I'm sorry, he's not.

bucketybuck

BloodBath wrote: »

Considering there was 4 midfielders chosen last year though, one being Carrick, do you really think he deserved a place in the team of the year ahead of Michu, Cazorla, Toure, Fellaini, Gerrard?

I'm a United fan but I'm not blind and I don't buy the English medias over rating of him either. He's a good solid midfielder but world class? No I'm sorry, he's not.

I'm not sure which I should doubt most, your sanity or your sincerity.

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

Considering there was 4 midfielders chosen last year though, one being Carrick, do you really think he deserved a place in the team of the year ahead of Michu, Cazorla, Toure, Fellaini, Gerrard?

I'm a United fan but I'm not blind and I don't buy the English medias over rating of him either. He's a good solid midfielder but world class? No I'm sorry, he's not.

In other news

BloodBath

So you honestly would give Carrick a spot in the team of the year over all of the players listed.

The other 3 winners were Bale, Hazzard and Mata.

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree. I know I'm barking up the wrong tree saying that on a United thread anyway.

Ah yeah, Carrick never gets criticised in here

Mitch Connor

BloodBath wrote: »

Considering there was 4 midfielders chosen last year though, one being Carrick, do you really think he deserved a place in the team of the year ahead of Michu, Cazorla, Toure, Fellaini, Gerrard?

I'm a United fan but I'm not blind and I don't buy the English medias over rating of him either. He's a good solid midfielder but world class? No I'm sorry, he's not.

Yes.

Carrick and RVP were our standout performers last year. Last season, Carrick was amongst the best CM players in the league. Without those two, either of them, we'd not have won the league.

Carrick was IMMENSE last season and anyone who can't see that really doesn't have a clue imo.

Michu played up front, as did Fellaini most of the time. Gerrard wasn't great. Toure didn't have a great season. Cazorla I can see an argument for.

Also - as for this biased throw some English players in there argument....

1. Who the feck do you think picks the team? Media? It is a free vote from the players. Why would they be biased towards Carrick?
2. Carrick doesn't even play for the England side, so why would they be biased towards him anyway?

kryogen

BloodBath wrote: »

So you honestly would give Carrick a spot in the team of the year over all of the players listed.

The other 3 winners were Bale, Hazzard and Mata.

Why you are claiming that Carrick was competing for a spot with Michu and Cazorla in particular is baffling. Toure played no where near his level last year, Fellaini played behind the striker too, so again, not exactly in midfield, like Carrick. Stevie? Nope.

Rayne Wooney

Seriously where were you for last season?

To say Carrick wasn't in the top two CMs in the league last season is baffling, he was basically on his own in central midfield for the team that won the league.

BloodBath

Ok so let's assume the argument of playing a player out of position makes a difference. It shouldn't since it shows they have the skill to adapt to playing at a high level in a different position but i'll go along with it.

Walcott was immense for Arsenal last year. Granted he played up front for a bit he still spent most of the season on the wing. Stats for the season. 14 goals, 13 assists. If a United winger had those stats he would have been on the team of the year. Granted goals and assists aren't the only important stat but they can't be overlooked. All this despite playing 900 less minutes than Carrick. Maybe his injury woes cost him a place.

Cazorla was arguably Arsenals best player last season. Stats for the season, 12 goals, 13 assists all while controlling the center with crisp passing.

Gerrard was immense for Liverpool last season having one of his best seasons ever. Stats for the season. 10 goals, 12 assists despite playing deeper than he has in previous seasons. His long passing from midfield is great and he has filled in Alonso's role there.

I'm sorry but the opinions in here are very very biased. No wonder United fans get a bad rep from other supporters. Maybe they had to pick a defensive midfielder as that is the only way I could see Carricks choice being warranted.

adox

Not to be taken seriously.

BloodBath

Madness. And I've been accused of wearing red tinted glasses at times. My mates would love ye.

They were only premier league stats I mentioned by the way.

SirDelboy18

Please take this guy away from this thread.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not sure which I should doubt most, your sanity or your sincerity.

I've been sure it's the latter for a day or two now.

BloodBath

So that's it. No counter arguments? Just accusations against my personal character. Really low grade. It's a poor reflection on United fans.

You are acting like what I'm saying is total madness when it's an actual debatable point. I'm sorry that you can't remove yourself from being a fan for a moment to consider it a possibility.

SirDelboy18

BloodBath wrote: »

So that's it. No counter arguments? Just accusations against my personal character. Really low grade. It's a poor reflection on United fans.

You are acting like what I'm saying is total madness when it's an actual debatable point. I'm sorry that you can't remove yourself from being a fan for a moment to consider it a possibility.

For as long as you have posted in here, anything you have said has been rubbish. You now want us to argue that because Walcott wasn't a United player, he didn't get in the team.

You've regularly tried to wind us up.

Please somebody get this guy out of here.

keane2097

BloodBath wrote: »

So that's it. No counter arguments? Just accusations against my personal character. Really low grade. It's a poor reflection on United fans.

You are acting like what I'm saying is total madness when it's an actual debatable point. I'm sorry that you can't remove yourself from being a fan for a moment to consider it a possibility.

I'm not a United fan for one.

keane2097

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

For as long as you have posted in here, anything you have said has been rubbish. You now want us to argue that because Walcott wasn't a United player, he didn't get in the team.

You've regularly tried to wind us up.

Please somebody get this guy out of here.

I've noticed some United fans seem to underrate Walcott to a huge degree FWIW.

BloodBath

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

For as long as you have posted in here, anything you have said has been rubbish. You now want us to argue that because Walcott wasn't a United player, he didn't get in the team.

You've regularly tried to wind us up.

Please somebody get this guy out of here.

Then educate me oh wise one. If you have nothing better to say than get this guy out of here then don't say anything at all.

I made some debatable points that anyone who watches enough football could at least admit that they are debatable points and argue for or against them.

It's not my fault that you get wound up by them.

SirDelboy18

BloodBath wrote: »

Then educate me oh wise one. If you have nothing better to say than get this guy out of here then don't say anything at all.

I made some debatable points that anyone who watches enough football could at least admit that they are debatable points and argue for or against them.

It's not my fault that you get wound up by them.

LOL.

Anyone who watches football.

Says the guy who claimed Gerrard and Yaya Toure should have made the team ahead of Carrick.

BloodBath

I didn't claim that. I listed some players who could have been contenders for the same spot. If you want to disagree with a few of them that's fine. But all of them? If so why?

You're doing yourself no favors here reacting the way you are.

Look it's phrased as a question.

Considering there was 4 midfielders chosen last year though, one being Carrick, do you really think he deserved a place in the team of the year ahead of Michu, Cazorla, Toure, Fellaini, Gerrard, Walcott?

Rayne Wooney

*************

SirDelboy18

BloodBath wrote: »

I didn't claim that. I listed some players who could have been contenders for the same spot. If you want to disagree with a few of them that's fine. But all of them? If so why?

You're doing yourself no favors here reacting the way you are.

How am I doing myself no favours? To who exactly?

I'm pretty sure everybody else is just as baffled as me from what they are reading and have been reading.

Backstreet Moyes

BloodBath wrote: »

I didn't claim that. I listed some players who could have been contenders for the same spot. If you want to disagree with a few of them that's fine. But all of them? If so why?

You're doing yourself no favors here reacting the way you are.

Because the only two people on your list who play in Carrick's position are Gerrard and Toure and he was better. I am not sure if you think the best 11 players should be just thrown in anywhere if you are it doesn't work like that.

BloodBath

I don't see why. It's an honest and open question that you haven't even bothered trying to address. It's not like I said Ronaldo is ****e or something. I've also edited that post since.

If you think Carrick stands head and shoulders above all of the players I listed then make an argument for why you think that instead of rubbishing anything I say.

Backstreet Moyes

lordgoat wrote: »

Tbh he's never looked great to me. He had a decent preseason. No better than Lingard or Janz. He needed to kick on from that

How do you kick on when you haven't played a minute on the field. Considering how poor our wingers are it's stupidity he has not played.

Mitch Connor

BloodBath wrote: »

If you think Carrick stands head and shoulders above all of the players I listed then make an argument for why you think that instead of rubbishing anything I say.

I did.

BloodBath

Appreciated Mitch and I don't know the rules for how the PFA team of the year is calculated. As I said if they have to chose a defensive midfielder then maybe Carricks position is worthy.

adox

BloodBath you never did reply to my "bet" offer?

Mitch Connor

BloodBath wrote: »

Appreciated Mitch and I don't know the rules for how the PFA player of the year is calculated. As I said if they have to chose a defensive midfielder then maybe Carricks position is worthy.

Maybe the players thought he stood out as a defensive/central midfielder and deserved recognition for that. maybe the players realise the game of football is about more than just goals, and other facets of the game should be appreciated - and that is why they voted him as one of the best players last season.

His defensive positioning, reading of the game, game management and passing control were superb last season, and for that he was rightly recognised.

He was superb in his position and role last season, he deserved the recognition he got.

The fact the players he plays against recognised him and his performances surely should speak loudly to you.

bucketybuck

BloodBath wrote: »

Ok so let's assume the argument of playing a player out of position makes a difference. It shouldn't since it shows they have the skill to adapt to playing at a high level in a different position but i'll go along with it.

Walcott was immense for Arsenal last year. Granted he played up front for a bit he still spent most of the season on the wing. Stats for the season. 14 goals, 13 assists. If a United winger had those stats he would have been on the team of the year. Granted goals and assists aren't the only important stat but they can't be overlooked. All this despite playing 900 less minutes than Carrick. Maybe his injury woes cost him a place.

Cazorla was arguably Arsenals best player last season. Stats for the season, 12 goals, 13 assists all while controlling the center with crisp passing.

Gerrard was immense for Liverpool last season having one of his best seasons ever. Stats for the season. 10 goals, 12 assists despite playing deeper than he has in previous seasons. His long passing from midfield is great and he has filled in Alonso's role there.

I'm sorry but the opinions in here are very very biased. No wonder United fans get a bad rep from other supporters. Maybe they had to pick a defensive midfielder as that is the only way I could see Carricks choice being warranted.

Basically then, in your mind, whether you are named on the team of the year or not comes down to goals and assists.

Goals, assists, and Bloodbaths strangely convenient opinion of a players crisp or long passing.