Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Mitch Connor

JRant wrote: »

The only 2 people who seem to under-rate him would be Fergie and now Moyes. Everyone else can see what a little gem he is.

is he better than RVP as a striker?

is he better than Rooney as a 'No.10'?

IMO, no to both - and I love the guy.

Much like Kagawa, Chico is a victim of the RVP purchase.

Rayne Wooney

Gringo180 wrote: »

Take Carrick and Wilshere out and replace with Ramsey and Santi.

I'd rate Wilshere over Ramsey tbh, Santi is more attacking and would have to take Rooney's place in that 11 which he wouldn't.

Even taking your changes, that's 5 Arsenal players? I had 4, so I'm not as biased as you think I am.

Gringo180

Mitch Connor wrote: »

is he better than RVP as a striker?

is he better than Rooney as a 'No.10'?

IMO, no to both - and I love the guy.

Much like Kagawa, Chico is a victim of the RVP purchase.

He is much better than Welbeck who always seems to get the nod ahead of him??

Mitch Connor

Gringo180 wrote: »

Take Carrick and Wilshere out and replace with Ramsey and Santi.

Ramsey, yeah actually.

Already had Cazorla on my left (from the left, not on it, as it were).

---

DDG
Raf--Kos--Vidic-Evra
--Carrick--Ramsey
Nani/TW-Ozil-Cazorla

---

RVP.

Mitch Connor

Gringo180 wrote: »

He is much better than Welbeck who always seems to get the nod ahead of him??

Welbeck, who plays on the left, or off the striker bulking up the midfield as needed, when he plays - not as a central goal poaching striker - which is the only place Chico can play.

Gringo180

Just another thing yous have the best keeper in world football never mind between the 2 sides, some of the shot De Gea stops is unbelievable. The one that comes to mind was against Real at the Bernabeu last season, down low to his left it was one of the best saves I have ever seen, chap is like elastic in goal.

Mitch Connor

Gringo180 wrote: »

Just another thing yous have the best keeper in world football never mind between the 2 sides, some of the shot De Gea stops is unbelievable. The one that comes to mind was against Real at the Bernabeu last season, down low to his left it was one of the best saves I have ever seen, chap is like elastic in goal.

If we'd have listened to your club legend Merson we'd have swapped him for a Villa backup - Given!

So glad United stuck by the kid in the end - the amount of crap thrown at him my pundits, the media and his own fans in a lot of cases was a knee-jerking disgrace.

Such a class keeper - and we've fecking needed him!

The_Kew_Tour

In saying that Given in his prime is better then Hart in his prime.

Given never made the mistakes Hart did.

For team tomorrow I hope Nani starts. No Young please. RVP hopefully gets on scoresheet

JRant

Mitch Connor wrote: »

is he better than RVP as a striker?

is he better than Rooney as a 'No.10'?

IMO, no to both - and I love the guy.

Much like Kagawa, Chico is a victim of the RVP purchase.

The question should have been, is he better than Wellbeck though?

Gringo180

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If we'd have listened to your club legend Merson we'd have swapped him for a Villa backup - Given!

So glad United stuck by the kid in the end - the amount of crap thrown at him my pundits, the media and his own fans in a lot of cases was a knee-jerking disgrace.

Such a class keeper - and we've fecking needed him!

Next long term Spanish number 1. I like Lindegaard too he impressed me in his few apps last season. Looks very confident and assured.

Ordinary man

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ramsey, yeah actually.

Already had Cazorla on my left (from the left, not on it, as it were).

---

DDG
Raf--Kos--Vidic-Evra
--Carrick--Ramsey
Nani/TW-Ozil-Cazorla

---

RVP.

No rooney?

Mitch Connor

JRant wrote: »

The question should have been, is he better than Wellbeck though?

Why?

Welbeck has been asked to play off the striker as a no.10 or winger so far this season. He has played in a 5 man midfield when played.

As far as I can see so far he hasn't been played as a central striker when Chico has been fit (may have been central striker vs Swansea, but don't think so - chico wasn't fit regardless). Similarly last season - when welbeck played it was to do a job closing people down in midfield as much as anything else he offers; cant think of many (any) times he would have been picked as the central striker ahead of Chico.

I disappoints me that we require this of our forward line so much - but fact is Chico can only play as a central striker and RVP is better - and that is who has been picked ahead of him as the central striker more often than not. Not Rooney and certainly not Welbeck.

Mitch Connor

Ordinary man wrote: »

No rooney?

Nope - given the choice between him and Ozil, I go for Ozil.

I can see why United, allegedly, turned down Ozil - as, as far as I know, we couldn't sell Rooney abroad, wouldn't sell him within England, and weren't going to spend 40million and a big chunk on agents fees, for another player in the position we'd be playing Rooney in.

But, given the choice between the two without having to dump one for the other, I'd pick Ozil.

Ozil is a genuine world class talent imo - Rooney isn't imo. He can be, but plays too inconsistently to be classed as it.

Mitch Connor

Gringo180 wrote: »

Next long term Spanish number 1. I like Lindegaard too he impressed me in his few apps last season. Looks very confident and assured.

You need to watch Lindegaard more (though I hope United don't give you the chance).

Confident and assured aren't two words I'd use. As poor on crosses as DDG was, terrible distribution. Is capable of some stunning saves though.

Big problem for him, imo, is command of the area. He has none.

Ordinary man

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Nope - given the choice between him and Ozil, I go for Ozil.

I can see why United, allegedly, turned down Ozil - as, as far as I know, we couldn't sell Rooney abroad, wouldn't sell him within England, and weren't going to spend 40million and a big chunk on agents fees, for another player in the position we'd be playing Rooney in.

But, given the choice between the two without having to dump one for the other, I'd pick Ozil.

Ozil is a genuine world class talent imo - Rooney isn't imo. He can be, but plays too inconsistently to be classed as it.

I'd find it impossible not to pick rooney. I'd either play ozil on the left or drop rvp

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Then you don't understand what the team of the year is.

Yea, the concept of a team of the season is really hard to grasp. Great contribution.

Mitch Connor

Ordinary man wrote: »

I'd find it impossible not to pick rooney. I'd either play ozil on the left or drop rvp

Can certainly see the argument for ozil from the left, similar to what I say we should be doing with kagawa.

Backstreet Moyes

Rooney is so underrated it's actually funny. He has 202 goals in 408 appearances for United. When he has been in teams where Van Nistlerooy, Ronaldo and RVP have been the main players to score goals. The one season he was the main striker he scored 34 in 44 appearances. Considering how little he has been the main striker for United his record is unbelievable a fantastic player.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

Yea, the concept of a team of the season is really hard to grasp.

Not for most people, but you seem to have a blind spot regarding how players are selected for one.

JRant

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Why?

Welbeck has been asked to play off the striker as a no.10 or winger so far this season. He has played in a 5 man midfield when played.

As far as I can see so far he hasn't been played as a central striker when Chico has been fit (may have been central striker vs Swansea, but don't think so - chico wasn't fit regardless). Similarly last season - when welbeck played it was to do a job closing people down in midfield as much as anything else he offers; cant think of many (any) times he would have been picked as the central striker ahead of Chico.

I disappoints me that we require this of our forward line so much - but fact is Chico can only play as a central striker and RVP is better - and that is who has been picked ahead of him as the central striker more often than not. Not Rooney and certainly not Welbeck.

And there in lies alot of our woes. We've relied too much on players 'doing a job' rather than getting the most out of them. I'm not suggesting he replace RVP but there are ways to get him on the pitch more often.

Jimmy Iovine

RasTa wrote: »

Who the **** is Gibbs

The best rapper around at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtl0yebLXz4

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not for most people, but you seem to have a blind spot regarding how players are selected for one.

Go on so, how do you think players are selected?

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

Go on so, how do you think players are selected?

You said:

Pro. F wrote: »

I wouldn't put a centre back in a team of the season who was shít in the air

This completely misses the point about how a team of the season is selected, because you see, by and large the team of the season is made up of the best performing players of the season in question. Not necessarily the best players period, but the best from that season. This is probably why the team of the season tends to be slightly different from season to season, know what I mean?

When you are selecting your Pro.F City team, you can quite rightly use what ever metric you wish to judge who should be picked. If a defender is **** in the air then you can quite rightly not pick him.

But if you are picking the team of the season, and a certain defender was undoubtedly one of the best performers that season, then he deserves to be picked regardless of what deficiencies he may have. He might be **** in the air, but if he was the outstanding defender then he deserves his place.

I could easily say that I wouldn't put a central defender in the team of the season who had no pace whatsoever. But that would mean Bobby moore could never be picked, and that would be silly wouldnt it? I could say that a winger who can't use his left foot could never be in the team of the year, but I think Valencia earned his spot in 2010 wouldn't you?

I hope you can understand the distinction here, because its late and I'm off to bed. But the team of the season is not the same as picking an international squad, it is very possible that a less than perfect player who had the year of his life could be selected on the former. He might never recreate that form again, but if he was the best that year, then he should be picked. That is all.

Cypher_sounds

Gringo180 wrote: »

He is better than Buttner to be fair, who is probably one of the most horriffic defenders I have ever seen.

Hello Andre Santos.

Al Capwned

Gringo180 wrote: »

Next long term Spanish number 1. I like Lindegaard too he impressed me in his few apps last season. Looks very confident and assured.

Lindegaard done anything but impress me to be fair. de Gea is soooooo far ahead of him now it's not even close.
A lot of the time Lindegaard conceded in the latter period of last season, I found myself thinking that de Gea could, and most likely would have saved a lot of them.

Irish94

It is important we keep a clean sheet tomorrow.

Cypher_sounds

Irish94 wrote: »

It is important we keep a clean sheet tomorrow.

Yeah a nil all draw would be great wouldn't it..

It is important that we get 3 points. Ill take 5-4 as long as we get back to wining ways.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

You said:

This completely misses the point about how a team of the season is selected, because you see, by and large the team of the season is made up of the best performing players of the season in question. Not necessarily the best players period, but the best from that season. This is probably why the team of the season tends to be slightly different from season to season, know what I mean?

When you are selecting your Pro.F City team, you can quite rightly use what ever metric you wish to judge who should be picked. If a defender is **** in the air then you can quite rightly not pick him.

But if you are picking the team of the season, and a certain defender was undoubtedly one of the best performers that season, then he deserves to be picked regardless of what deficiencies he may have. He might be **** in the air, but if he was the outstanding defender then he deserves his place.

I could easily say that I wouldn't put a central defender in the team of the season who had no pace whatsoever. But that would mean Bobby moore could never be picked, and that would be silly wouldnt it? I could say that a winger who can't use his left foot could never be in the team of the year, but I think Valencia earned his spot in 2010 wouldn't you?

I hope you can understand the distinction here, because its late and I'm off to bed. But the team of the season is not the same as picking an international squad, it is very possible that a less than perfect player who had the year of his life could be selected on the former. He might never recreate that form again, but if he was the best that year, then he should be picked. That is all.

The issue here is that you think a centre half can be shíte in the air and still play well. I would be confident that the standard of central defenders in English football has never dropped so low so that the best (or second best) centre back for any year was shíte in the air. I picked centre halves and ability in the air as an obvious example of a fundamental quality required to be good in a position. Others would include shot stopping for keepers, scoring for strikers, tackling for defenders and plenty more.

The examples you chose, Moore's pace and Valencia's one footedness, are not the same as they are qualities that are not essential for the positions they play. There have been plenty of great central defenders who were short of pace and plenty of great creative players who strongly favoured one foot.

Irish94

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Yeah a nil all draw would be great wouldn't it..

It is important that we get 3 points. Ill take 5-4 as long as we get back to wining ways.

Obviously a win is the most important thing, but to only have one clean sheet in the last 5 games is quite poor.

Cypher_sounds

Irish94 wrote: »

Obviously a win is the most important thing, but to only have one clean sheet in the last 5 games is quite poor.

We were pretty sound defensively midweek so I see an improvement there, probably because Vidic started and Rio didn't. I can see Rio being picked to start against Sunderland tho.

J. Marston

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

We were pretty sound defensively midweek so I see an improvement there, probably because Vidic started and Rio didn't. I can see Rio being picked to start against Sunderland tho.

Please God no. Moyes needs to drop him, he's been our worst defender this season, by a considerable distance. Smalling, Evans, Jones even. They should all be miles ahead of Rio from now on.

dahat

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

We were pretty sound defensively midweek so I see an improvement there, probably because Vidic started and Rio didn't. I can see Rio being picked to start against Sunderland tho.

Rio hasn't travelled to Sunderland,Fellani,Anderson also didn't travel

Cypher_sounds

dahat wrote: »

Rio hasn't travelled to Sunderland,Fellani,Anderson also didn't travel

Any reason given for Fellaini not travelling? Hopefully it's disciplining because of his display midweek, he was brutal.

Liam O

BloodBath wrote: »

Looking at the difference Ozil has made to Arsenal is depressing. We spend all summer looking for a world class attacking playmaker and somehow Ozil slips under the radar and goes to Arsenal. But at least we got Fellaini eh.

I'd 100% in every situation rathered signed Fellaini than Ozil this season. Even if I rate Ozil as the best at his role in the world.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

The issue here is that you think a centre half can be shíte in the air and still play well. I would be confident that the standard of central defenders in English football has never dropped so low so that the best (or second best) centre back for any year was shíte in the air.

It doesn't matter what I think or what you would be confident of. If a player had performed well then he will have deserved to be picked in a team of a year, thats it. Its not picked on ability, its picked on performance.

Using your logic you would be looking at 1966 and saying "Well Bobby Moore had a great year, but he is sooo slow, I can't pick him in my team of the year".

Next year it could be "Jim Brick had a phenomenal year for Spurs, he won everything. I think he is rubbish in the air though, so he can't be in my team of the year".

It just isn't like that.

IamtheWalrus

Liam O wrote: »

I'd 100% in every situation rathered signed Fellaini than Ozil this season.

Fanny Biscuit

dahat wrote: »

Rio hasn't travelled to Sunderland,Fellani,Anderson also didn't travel

I read that but also Zaha had travelled.

MD1990

Fanny Biscuit wrote: »

I read that but also Zaha had travelled.

Moyes wants to keep him away from his daughter

Backstreet Moyes

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Any reason given for Fellaini not travelling? Hopefully it's disciplining because of his display midweek, he was brutal.

If he goes around dropping players for playing brutal it won't be long before half the academy team is playing.

fergiesfolly

Liam O wrote: »

I'd 100% in every situation rathered signed Fellaini than Ozil this season. Even if I rate Ozil as the best at his role in the world.

There was no reason we couldn't have signed both.

Cantona's Collars

fergiesfolly wrote: »

There was no reason we couldn't have signed both.

We have Kagawa who can do the exact same job as Ozil but first Fergie & now Moyes have no idea how to find a position for him,he's sacrificed for the sake of the rigid formation we play.

JRant

dahat wrote: »

Rio hasn't travelled to Sunderland,Fellani,Anderson also didn't travel

Giggs to be the midfield general so.

Cypher_sounds

Nuts102 wrote: »

If he goes around dropping players for playing brutal it won't be long before half the academy team is playing.

I wouldn't say many have played brutal so far this season. Rio has had a few brutal games, Fellaini the other night I have to say losing so much possession giving so many needless free kicks away jeez he was bad, a few other have played badly but not brutal imo. Kinda feel for Anderson he plays almost every pre season game then abolished for the first 6 games of the seasons,then thrown in. Why didn't moyes sell him and bring in Hererra? It's not ando's fault that he is still here I'm sure he could have been sold albeit for a cut price.

Cantona's Collars

JRant wrote: »

Giggs to be the midfield general so.

BigBabyTaylor

With Anderson and Fellani not traveling I've never hoped for Cleverly to be in a starting 11 so much in my life. Please don't start Giggs or Jones CM. PLEASE!

bucketybuck

BigBabyTaylor wrote: »

With Anderson and Fellani not traveling I've never hoped for Cleverly to be in a starting 11 so much in my life. Please don't start Giggs or Jones CM. PLEASE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wmgghlEagA#t=3m36s

Nolars

BigBabyTaylor wrote: »

With Anderson and Fellani not traveling I've never hoped for Cleverly to be in a starting 11 so much in my life. Please don't start Giggs or Jones CM. PLEASE!

yea it would be lovely

Rayne Wooney

I wouldn't mind a Jones and Carrick midfield to be honest, as long as Moyes uses that as an anchor for 4 attacking players in front of them, he probably won't do that though.

Vic Vinegar

MD1990 wrote: »

Moyes wants to keep him away from his daughter

Quit it with the crap jokes. It wouldn't be so bad if that was the first time it had been posted, after 10 times though it's just sad.

Backstreet Moyes

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a Jones and Carrick midfield to be honest, as long as Moyes uses that as an anchor for 4 attacking players in front of them, he probably won't do that though.

Ye if we see that with Nani, Rooney and Kagawa in front of them i will be happy.