Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Arsenal have a better midfield and defensive line. That's what I've been discussing.

Now care to discuss it?

Danye

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Kagawa as a CM?

Yeah he could of actually but a little further up the pitch leaving Carrick to sit.

JRant

adox wrote: »

Who else would you play there today then, considering you wanted Jones ar CB?

Kagawa surely.

Giggsy11

gosplan wrote: »

Arsenal have a better midfield and defensive line. That's what I've been discussing.

Now care to discuss it?

So you said Vidic and Rooney won't get in to Arsenal team and when I posted same you said as if you never said that. Sigh. I'm done.

Edit: So you said only 2 players get into Arsenal team or not? I'm glad at least you didn't come up with Arsenal have better too and also Giroud is better than RVP.

The_Kew_Tour

gosplan wrote: »

Arsenal have a better midfield and defensive line. That's what I've been discussing.

Now care to discuss it?

I see you now realise what a utter supid comment you made and now trying to make it sound like something else

oh dear

adox

gosplan wrote: »

Never said that.

Rooney, RVP, DDG, Vidic nailed on. Arguments to be had about others.

What's laughable is how no-one can stick to the point at hand without resorting to 'lol' or 'it's laughable'.

Read my original posts, read what I said. It is correct.

gosplan wrote: »

Man U take it on GK and CF.

Arsensl take the rest of the pitch,

.

JRant

Danye wrote: »

Yeah he could of actually but a little further up the pitch leaving Carrick to sit.

Agree fully, he is in every aspect a much better player than Cleverly.
Technique-Kagawa
Skill-Kagawa
Passing-Kagawa
Ability to beat a player-Kagawa
Goal scoring-Kagawa
No brainer really.

adox

JRant wrote: »

Kagawa surely.

No not a CM. Unless you want the team to play with one CM?

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

So you said Vidic and Rooney won't get in to Arsenal team and when I posted same you said as if you never said that. Sigh. I'm done.

Where????

Of course you'd start Rooney and RVP up top. There's no-one in the entire league that would keep them out.

I said Utd have better strikers and GKs whereas Arsenal have a better midfield and defence?

Sorry for the confusion. I never ever said Vidic or Rooney wouldn't make the Arsenal team. That was incorrectly inferred.

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

Lol at the stats from the last 12 months backing it up.

Show me these stats. With links.

JRant

adox wrote: »

No not a CM. Unless you want the team to play with one CM?

No need to be confused, I've outlined why I think playing him ahead of Cleverly is a better option. It's not like were dropping Keano to fit Kags in. Everything Cleverly does Kags can do to a much higher standard.

DM_7

JRant wrote: »

No need to be confused, I've outlined why I think playing him ahead of Cleverly is a better option. It's not like were dropping Keano to fit Kags in. Everything Cleverly does Kags can do to a much higher standard.

Except for play as a central midfielder

Giggsy11

If Januzaj doesn't sign extension after getting many mins, will people blame Moyes for him leaving?

I mean some already blamed Moyes for the injuries in training (which can happen any time) so if Januzaj signs pre contract with any team is that a Moyes mistake?

Paul Tergat

Kagawa at centre mid is not going to work at all. Its the same playing Rooney as CM.

gosplan

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I see you now realise what a utter supid comment you made and now trying to make it sound like something else

oh dear

Not at all. I'm not backing down or changing my argument in any way. If I was taken up incorrectly, then maybe I could have been clearer.

My understanding was based in the previous posts to mine that said 'Arsenal have a better midfield'. I was basically saying it's midfield and defence.

If you read what I said, you'll see I'm only ever talking about the players as an effective unit and never picking one from each team.

If that's cleared up, I'd prefer you stopped trying to label or belittle me. I'm not putting words in your mouth buddy. Show some respect.

Paul Tergat

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If Januzaj doesn't sign extension after getting many mins, will people blame Moyes for him leaving?

I mean some already blamed Moyes for the injuries in training (which can happen any time) so if Januzaj signs pre contract with any team is that a Moyes mistake?

a couple may try but moyes is clearly doing all he can for Januzaj. He sees something there and has the confidence to back him. Hopefully he can rise to the challenge. We dont have many players anymore who will actually run at the opposition but this kid does that.

Giggsy11

JRant wrote: »

Agree fully, he is in every aspect a much better player than Cleverly.
Technique-Kagawa
Skill-Kagawa
Passing-Kagawa
Ability to beat a player-Kagawa
Goal scoring-Kagawa
No brainer really.

Ability to play as a CM - Cleverley, that matters most than any.

Danye

adox wrote: »

No not a CM. Unless you want the team to play with one CM?

Want do you want? Two holding central midfielders?

We're already far to rigid in our tactics and formation.

Cleverly doesn't bring anything to the game to warrant a starting spot in the first 11. Watch him tonight and see what you think?

adox

JRant wrote: »

No need to be confused, I've outlined why I think playing him ahead of Cleverly is a better option. It's not like were dropping Keano to fit Kags in. Everything Cleverly does Kags can do to a much higher standard.

Sure why not play RVP there? Kagawa isn't a CM. Only playing one CM would be stupid IMO

Giggsy11

Paul Tergat wrote: »

a couple may try but moyes is clearly doing all he can for Januzaj. He sees something there and has the confidence to back him. Hopefully he can rise to the challenge. We dont have many players anymore who will actually run at the opposition but this kid does that.

It's also refreshing to see Moyes trusting some youth player so early in his career. He is not afraid to throw 18 year old into the deep end.

Devil08

Giggsy11 wrote: »

If Januzaj doesn't sign extension after getting many mins, will people blame Moyes for him leaving?

I mean some already blamed Moyes for the injuries in training (which can happen any time) so if Januzaj signs pre contract with any team is that a Moyes mistake?

He is getting plenty of game time for a player of his age, he is at the biggest club in the world. I doubt he expects to be starting every game. He is on the bench most games. This shows the manager rates him and sees a future for him at the club if he performs. He couldnt be in a better position IMO. If he doesnt sign it will be purely for money reasons and will be sad to see. but again, id rather not see Utd being held to random by a kid who has done nothing to deserve it

DM_7

Cleverley

Paul Tergat

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It's also refreshing to see Moyes trusting some youth player so early in his career. He is not afraid to throw 18 year old into the deep end.

yeah its good to see and hope it works out

adox

Danye wrote: »

Want do you want? Two holding central midfielders?

We're already far to rigid in our tactics and formation.

Cleverly doesn't bring anything to the game to warrant a starting spot in the first 11. Watch him tonight and see what you think?

What I want is at least two CM played in the starting eleven. Sure why not play no CM? Drop Carrick and we get all the forward players in the team, so that will sort everything out.

I don't need to watch him tonight to see what he offers. I've seen him play for the last few seasons.

Nuri Sahin

Just on the above discussion. Playing Shinji as CM is nearly as awful a decision as playing him as a LW/LM. Trust me, I've seen plenty of it when he plays for the national team there in the past and it has me near yelling at the TV every time.

A Brad Maddox Guy

JRant wrote: »

No need to be confused, I've outlined why I think playing him ahead of Cleverly is a better option. It's not like were dropping Keano to fit Kags in. Everything Cleverly does Kags can do to a much higher standard.

Apart from actually being able to play in the centre of midfield. This isn't FIFA. If you play with only Carrick having any defensive ability in midfield then you're left with a completely open midfield and even Sunderland can could find a way through multiple times. Kagawa cannot play as part of a midfield 2.

Paul Tergat

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Just on the above discussion. Playing Shinji as CM is nearly as awful a decision as playing him as a LW/LM. Trust me, I've seen plenty of it when he plays for the national team there in the past and it has me near yelling at the TV every time.

Been saying it in here for a while. He should only be played behind the front. Sadly for him Rooney has that spot locked up. Even with RVP injured we may see Chicho up front with Rooney behind. I dont think Kag is going to get the chance

Danye

adox wrote: »

What I want is at least two CM played in the starting eleven. Sure why not play no CM? Drop Carrick and we get all the forward players in the team, so that will sort everything out.

I don't need to watch him tonight to see what he offers. I've seen him play for the last few seasons.

That's such a stupid post.

JRant

adox wrote: »

Sure why not play RVP there? Kagawa isn't a CM. Only playing one CM would be stupid IMO

But we wouldn't be playing only one CM though. We could try Kags out in that position, have him push a little further up the field when we have the ball and drop back when we lose it. It could work but we'll never know if we don't try.
One thing I'm fairly sure of is that Cleverly is nothing more than a decent squad player and will struggle in a 2 man midfield today. So why not try Kags out, it's Sunderland were playing today not Barça.

adox

Danye wrote: »

That's such a stupid post.

Well that told me.

Chagan

Given our recent results and performances, I don't think now would be the most appropriate time for Moyes to start experimenting with the CM.

Danye

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Just on the above discussion. Playing Shinji as CM is nearly as awful a decision as playing him as a LW/LM. Trust me, I've seen plenty of it when he plays for the national team there in the past and it has me near yelling at the TV every time.

Why do people think by playing him CM means that he has to go box to box or that he HAS to sit in the centre of the park???

We've been so poor and rigid going forward at times playing Kagawa in midfield but pushing up closer up behind the front 2 would be decent.

We should dominate the ball tonight so were going to need players who can create. Kagawa can create. Play him.

Danye

adox wrote: »

Well that told me.

Good. No more stupid posts now. Good man.

Devil08

We remoulded Alan Smith into a CM, why not try with Kags :P

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

Not at all. I'm not backing down or changing my argument in any way. If I was taken up incorrectly, then maybe I could have been clearer.

My understanding was based in the previous posts to mine that said 'Arsenal have a better midfield'. I was basically saying it's midfield and defence.

If you read what I said, you'll see I'm only ever talking about the players as an effective unit and never picking one from each team.

If that's cleared up, I'd prefer you stopped trying to label or belittle me. I'm not putting words in your mouth buddy. Show some respect.

That's fair enough. It was an easy confusion for both sides.

Paul Tergat

Danye wrote: »

Why do people think by playing him CM means that he has to go box to box or that he HAS to sit in the centre of the park???

We've been so poor and rigid going forward at times playing Kagawa in midfield but pushing up closer up behind the front 2 would be decent.

We should dominate the ball tonight so were going to need players who can create. Kagawa can create. Play him.

His natural game is to be off the front. He will naturally drift into that position. With Carrick sat in front of the back 4 it leaves a huge gap for Sunderland to play into.

Its not workable. Thats it

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

So you said Vidic and Rooney won't get in to Arsenal team and when I posted same you said as if you never said that. Sigh. I'm done.

Edit: So you said only 2 players get into Arsenal team or not? I'm glad at least you didn't come up with Arsenal have better too and also Giroud is better than RVP.

No I didn't, you inferred that. And it wasn't that obvious to take it the way you did because not everyone took it that way.

If I blatantly said Rooney wouldn't make the Arsenal team, I'd be rightly laughed out of here rather than people debating my on the defensive comparisons. No-one thought to bring that up till you did.

Maybe I could have been clearer in what I said but at the same time, I don't think too many people took you interpretation if it or it would have come up before now.

adox

Danye wrote: »

Good. No more stupid posts now. Good man.

:rolleyes:

Danye

adox wrote: »

:rolleyes:

What did I just tell you?

A Brad Maddox Guy

Danye wrote: »

Why do people think by playing him CM means that he has to go box to box or that he HAS to sit in the centre of the park???

We've been so poor and rigid going forward at times playing Kagawa in midfield but pushing up closer up behind the front 2 would be decent.

We should dominate the ball tonight so were going to need players who can create. Kagawa can create. Play him.

How would we dominate the ball if you're playing Kagawa up the pitch literally leaving Carrick as the only man in the middle? A successful team needs balance, playing that would be the complete opposite of balance; especially against Sunderland's 3 man midfield.

Your Airbag

Lots of debate about positions but its great to see Young and Valenica dropped. I think Moyes is getting closer to knowing what his starting eleven is.

Kerrydude1981

Hope to Utd go at Sunderland this eve and not be sitting back waiting for things to happen

Danye

Paul Tergat wrote: »

His natural game is to be off the front. He will naturally drift into that position. With Carrick sat in front of the back 4 it leaves a huge gap for Sunderland to play into.

Its not workable. Thats it

If we were working as a unit there wouldn't be.

Too much caution be used here. We need a big performance and result against a Sunderland team struggling.

JRant

Paul Tergat wrote: »

His natural game is to be off the front. He will naturally drift into that position. With Carrick sat in front of the back 4 it leaves a huge gap for Sunderland to play into.

Its not workable. Thats it

Whereas Cleverley runs around alot mostly passing sideways or backwards. Thereby leaving the front men rather isolated.

adox

Danye wrote: »

What did I just tell you?

OT:
I've sent you a PM Danye. If you've got a problem with me then take it there rather than all these stupid little sound bites. I ****ing hate it when others are at it and have to read it so I'm sure there's many here that don't want to read it.

dfx-

Danye wrote: »

What did I just tell you?

Cool it down

Nuri Sahin

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Been saying it in here for a while. He should only be played behind the front. Sadly for him Rooney has that spot locked up. Even with RVP injured we may see Chicho up front with Rooney behind. I dont think Kag is going to get the chance

Aye, it should be Shinji playing behind RVP or Hernandez, but in the form Rooney is in at present, it's hard to drop him. There were plenty of times he should have been dropped over the past year and a bit though. I don't get what your scouting and Fergie thought when buying him. Perhaps Fergie was hoping to sell Rooney to a foreign club a couple of summers ago? Who knows. Then there's the manner of how Moyes sets up his teams.

There really isn't much difference between Shinji, Mata, Silva and Ozil for me. They're all in the top category of CAM's around. Yet two of them are just wasting away. If I'm honest, I don't see him returning to Dortmund despite me joking around on occasion, at least not for a few years at the very earliest, but I hope he gets his move (putting aside my Liverpool-ness.. small part of me wants him tale the EPL by storm like I know he can to shut the haters the **** up) to a club where the management will appreciate him. Japanese people are quite stubborn however and that might see him stay for another season after this year.

Danye

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

How would we dominate the ball if you're playing Kagawa up the pitch literally leaving Carrick as the only man in the middle? A successful team needs balance, playing that would be the complete opposite of balance; especially against Sunderland's 3 man midfield.

Because we would have far superior players who are technically better in control of the ball regardless of where theyre playing. How do other teams play a diamond formation and control the ball? Playing a player in beside Carrick sitting there is counter productive. Let the player beside him push on and leave Carrick to drop and get the ball.

Playing Kagawa higher up means that it frees up space for Carrick. Kagawa further up and the two wingers would help keep Sunderlands 3 midfielders pressed back.

Paul Tergat

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Aye, it should be Shinji playing behind RVP or Hernandez, but in the form Rooney is in at present, it's hard to drop him. There were plenty of times he should have been dropped over the past year and a bit though. I don't get what your scouting and Fergie thought when buying him. Perhaps Fergie was hoping to sell Rooney to a foreign club a couple of summers ago? Who knows. Then there's the manner of how Moyes sets up his teams.

There really isn't much difference between Shinji, Mata, Silva and Ozil for me. They're all in the top category of CAM's around. Yet two of them are just wasting away. If I'm honest, I don't see him returning to Dortmund despite me joking around on occasion, at least not for a few years at the very earliest, but I hope he gets his move (putting aside my Liverpool-ness.. small part of me wants him tale the EPL by storm like I know he can to shut the haters the **** up) to a club where the management will appreciate him. Japanese people are quite stubborn however and that might see him stay for another season after this year.

For me those types of players arent as suited to the English games and the way their own teams and opposition set up.

You cant have him back though!!

Headshot

My heart goes out to Kag, he deserves so much better than what he's getting
Same with chico