Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

mewe

Happy with the result and delighted for Januzaj. Lovely technique for his second. He'll be buzzin tonight!

RasTa

Sunderland had 2 shots on target, gifted a chance to go 1-0 up. We dominated possession with 62% and where always in control of the game.

adox

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There is much more than just no service tbh. They didn't make any runs at all and all the runs they made were wrong ones. When our wingers had the ball in the wide area it was so painful to watch him getting no support at all and out strikers didn't help with their lack of movement in the box.

Lately this has been the trend, when wingers/fb cross, strikers don't make the run at all. They just stand and try to win the header which will fail 9/10 times. They should make runs like Hernandez. No wonder 2 or 3 Nani's cross against WBA looked sure goal when Hernandez made runs and missed by inches.

Thought Rooney looked more interested once we went ahead and got a lot more involved for the last half hour.
RVP was quiet and missed that one on one but it happens. Thought he was class during the week.

Still think Utd need to move the ball quicker and up the tempo of their gameplay.
Lots more to be sorted of course but it's 3 points and something to build on.

Carrick I thought for the last half hour started looking like the player of the last couple of years after having a very poor start to the season. Thought Cleverley put a decent shift as well.

Giggsy11

Paul Tergat wrote: »

This is why Moyes cant win ^

He could have played any of those you mentioned who are far more experienced players. He plays Adnan and if it doesnt work he knows he is going to get it from everywhere. It works for him so give him the credit

Exactly. He took the risk and it paid off.

Today his subs were awful though, how Rooney and RVP completed 90 mins is beyond me.

Cleverley got so much **** which was surprising as he was our only midfielder winning tackles whereas Carrick stoodby watching like a lady boy. Cleverley was decent, should have taken shot at goal though in the last min.

Nolars

Moyes thought we played brilliant even when we wer 1 - 0 down ........

Paul Tergat

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly. He took the risk and it paid off.

Today his subs were awful though, how Rooney and RVP completed 90 mins is beyond me.

Cleverley got so much **** which was surprising as he was our only midfielder winning tackles whereas Carrick stoodby watching like a lady boy. Cleverley was decent, should have taken shot at goal though in the last min.

Agree on all fronts except the last bit. Ball retention is never a bad idea there and he bought us a free kick after a couple of corners. Keep the ball, get up the pitch and see out the last minute

RasTa

I'm also annoyed PP don't do MOM market, got him at anytime goalscorer.

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There is much more than just no service tbh. They didn't make any runs at all and all the runs they made were wrong ones. When our wingers had the ball in the wide area it was so painful to watch him getting no support at all and out strikers didn't help with their lack of movement in the box.

Lately this has been the trend, when wingers/fb cross, strikers don't make the run at all. They just stand and try to win the header which will fail 9/10 times. They should make runs like Hernandez. No wonder 2 or 3 Nani's cross against WBA looked sure goal when Hernandez made runs and missed by inches.

They both dropped off the front better in the second half and Nani, Adnan, Clev pushed up, disrupting Sunderland's shape and options to press (tiredness impacted that as well). Need more of that, where the team works for each other rather than just holding their standard positions as it makes space hard to find

FutureGuy

Did I just hear that.

Moyes just said he is not worried about Januzaj's contract because every young player wants to play for us and there is no reason to move.

Oh sweet Jesus.

Paul Tergat

FutureGuy wrote: »

Did I just hear that.

Moyes just said he is not worried about Januzaj's contract because every young player wants to play for us and there is no reason to move.

Oh sweet Jesus.

I think he is very bad with the press

Headshot

Iv given alot of crap to Moyes and I felt he pretty much deserves it but I cant deny im absolutely delighted he is playing youngsters namely Jan. I said before and ill say it again Saf wouldnt of played Jan. Fair dues to Moyes

Hulk Hands

Rooney really showed his maturity in the last 10 minutes, settling everything down and keeping possession when we were under the cosh. Him, andan and De Gea are the positives. There are plenty of negatives,but after all the talk of the last few weeks ill happily not focus on them! Anyway, andan 25/1 motm and backed united at HT at 11/4, fook yeah

Giggsy11

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Agree on all fronts except the last bit. Ball retention is never a bad idea there and he bought us a free kick after a couple of corners. Keep the ball, get up the pitch and see out the last minute

Yeah, not a worst move but I thought player of his level will have the confidence to shoot from there. I'm sure Rooney would have done that.

DM-ICE wrote: »

They both dropped off the front better in the second half and Nani, Adnan, Clev pushed up, disrupting Sunderland's shape and options to press (tiredness impacted that as well). Need more of that, where the team works for each other rather than just holding their standard positions, its too predictable.

I mean in the first half too. Our movement was non existent and we can't create without off the ball movement. It's just as important as pin point crossing IMO. It's easy to mark and cut off the passes if the player just stands still.

Example was Muller's run against City. What a run that was. Only Hernanez makes those runs and not sure what happened to RVP this season.

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

in the second half and Nani, Adnan, Clev pushed up, disrupting Sunderland's shape and options to press (tiredness impacted that as well). Need more of that, where the team works for each other rather than just holding their standard positions, its too predictable.

This is why I suggested Kagawa should of started where Cleverly started. He would of pushed up from the get go operating more in behind our front two.

In fairness to Cleverly it was one of his better performances.

SirDelboy18

Not too bothered about the performance, as in I am, but it's nothing that we haven't seen over the past 2 or 3 years.

We have a lot to fix, and plenty to be worried about, but winning makes fixing them a lot easier. We'll be fine.

Your Airbag

Januzaj has added about 20k a week onto his contract if he signs


It wasn't vintage UTD and if it wasn't for Adnan we might have lost. Hats off to Moyes for starting him.

RVP looks out of sorts. Rooney was not great. Carrick and Clev offered little creatively imo and both had a poor day.

Delighted with the three points but there are still worrying signs. There seems to be a change of mindset happening that I can't quite put my finger on. Oviously a new manager will bring this but we looked edgy at times and DDG kept us in it. Moyes brought off two players and replaced them with more defensively orientated wide players.

Its like we are happy to go ahead and close out the game instead of kill them off. It might be all in my head as I'm nervy watching us all season so far

Anyway happy with the three points

homerjay2005

thank f*ck for that, badly needed win, 2 great goals and while its only Sunderland the worst team in the league, we defo deserved the win.

that save from DDG, was just amazing when viewed in realtime from behind the goals, we seemed to step up a gear after that, baring the one other chance they had that their winger hoofed over the bar.

our fans were amazing tonight, sang the team home.

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly. He took the risk and it paid off.

What was the risk? Outline it to me? Explain how starting an 18 year old, who has been getting a fair bit of game time recently considering his experience and has shown he has potential on the attack, in a game against a team with 0 wins out of 6 prior to it, was a risk?

I thought Januzaj was an amazing talent showing great potential. So what was the risk playing him against Sunderland?

I'll stress, it's great he is getting time. But I just feel that this was the type of game we should expect players like him to play in. If not this game, which ones should he be playing in? If he's as good as we think he is, then there wasn't a risk at all today...

Danye

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I mean in the first half too. Our movement was non existent and we can't create without off the ball movement. It's just as important as pin point crossing IMO. It's easy to mark and cut off the passes if the player just stands still.

Example was Muller's run against City. What a run that was. Only Hernanez makes those runs and not sure what happened to RVP this season.

Our movement is very poor. I actually think the movement in the Premiership is lacking as a whole.

In regards to RVP this season it looks as if its a combination of him being fed up of making runs and not getting the ball and / or knowing by the managers instructions to the team before the game that making those kind of runs would be a waste of time and energy as the instructions being given to the team are to conservative for them to be picking out the runs he would make.

J. Marston

RasTa wrote: »

Sunderland had 2 shots on target, gifted a chance to go 1-0 up. We dominated possession with 62% and where always in control of the game.

Take off the stat blinkers. Sunderland dominated the first half and could've been three up (the goal, De Gea's unreal save from Giaccherini and the chance they blew over just near half time).



Save of the season wrapped up.

That's all we'll win.

Will I Amnt

A mixed bag today. Januzaj obviously impressing, along with Jones. Rafael and Nani were at least dangerous looking in the opposition half.
Vidic was awful, looked a bag of nerves from start to finish. Rooney wasn't great, although still looked like he could do something. RvP was woeful, hope for his sake he's just a bit rusty as he looked disinterested at times.

Paul Tergat

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

What was the risk? Outline it to me? Explain how starting an 18 year old, who has been getting a fair bit of game time recently considering his experience and has shown he has potential on the attack, in a game against a team with 0 wins out of 6 prior to it, was a risk?

I thought Januzaj was an amazing talent showing great potential. So what was the risk playing him against Sunderland?

I'll stress, it's great he is getting time. But I just feel that this was the type of game we should expect players like him to play in. If not this game, which ones should he be playing in? If he's as good as we think he is, then there wasn't a risk at all today...

If we lose people say wtf is he doing starting an inexperienced 18 year old. I thought this was really obvious. You can imagine press and pundits calling it a gamble that backfired.

Its not the type of game we expect to play him in at all, the opposite in fact. Its far easier to blood these players when you are going well in the league, are winning easily at home with 30 mins left. Not when you are on a bad run, struggling and away from home

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yeah, not a worst move but I thought player of his level will have the confidence to shoot from there. I'm sure Rooney would have done that.



I mean in the first half too. Our movement was non existent and we can't create without off the ball movement. It's just as important as pin point crossing IMO. It's easy to mark and cut off the passes if the player just stands still.

Example was Muller's run against City. What a run that was. Only Hernanez makes those runs and not sure what happened to RVP this season.

I agree no movement in first half and Hernandez would have created more problems with his movement.

Danye wrote: »

This is why I suggested Kagawa should of started where Cleverly started. He would of pushed up from the get go operating more in behind our front two.

In fairness to Cleverly it was one of his better performances.

Clev provided all round balance that Kag wouldn't as a partner for Carrick. It just wouldn't work.

IvySlayer

As much as I want to blame Moyes, his frustration on the sidelines is obvious, players are not doing what he wants

How Soon Is Now

This wont be popular but i taught Cleverly actually had a decent enough game around the middle. Broke up a fair few moves made some really good tackles.

Not amazing but did his job for the most part.

We need to get Van Persie back firing again the whole team plays better when hes on top form.

adox

homerjay2005 wrote: »

thank f*ck for that, badly needed win, 2 great goals and while its only Sunderland the worst team in the league, we defo deserved the win.

that save from DDG, was just amazing when viewed in realtime from behind the goals, we seemed to step up a gear after that, baring the one other chance they had that their winger hoofed over the bar.

our fans were amazing tonight, sang the team home.

You could hear the away fans clear as day on the telly for the whole of the second half. Was great to hear.

Paul Tergat

IvySlayer wrote: »

As much as I want to blame Moyes, his frustration on the sidelines is obvious, players are not doing what he wants

You reckon something isnt right? Some players dont like too interested at the moment. Not taking to his tactics/style?

Giggsy11

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

What was the risk? Outline it to me? Explain how starting an 18 year old, who has been getting a fair bit of game time recently considering his experience and has shown he has potential on the attack, in a game against a team with 0 wins out of 6 prior to it, was a risk?

I thought Januzaj was an amazing talent showing great potential. So what was the risk playing him against Sunderland?

I'll stress, it's great he is getting time. But I just feel that this was the type of game we should expect players like him to play in. If not this game, which ones should he be playing in? If he's as good as we think he is, then there wasn't a risk at all today...

Playing an 18 year old in an away game in the league when the we lost 2 games in the trot was a risk, he could have just went with Nani-Valencia, Nani- Kagawa, Valencia - Kagawa any combination but he played Januzaj because he showed promise.

Compare that to ManUtd Vs Blackburn game when Pogba didn't get the game as Fergie didn't want to risk it. He could have done but opted for senior pros. That's playing safe, what Moyes did was taking risk.

Btw, why didn't Januzaj get even a single min of game time last season? Surely he didn't improve 10x in just few months, he was brilliant for reserves last season too.

RasTa

J. Marston wrote: »

Take off the stat blinkers. Sunderland dominated the first half and could've been three up (the goal, De Gea's unreal save from Giaccherini and the chance they blew over just near half time).

lol we'll have to disagree on that. You were calling for Moyes to be sacked at half time...

Call Me Jimmy

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

This wont be popular but i taught Cleverly actually had a decent enough game around the middle. Broke up a fair few moves made some really good tackles.

Not amazing but did his job for the most part.

We need to get Van Persie back firing again the whole team plays better when hes on top form.

Yes the first game I have seen cleverly where I would classify his contribution as definitely positive.

The lack of movement in general is worrying, with a lot of players recieving the ball and standing over it, looking for a pass, very rarely is there more than 1 or two teammates close enough around them.

And one (hard-to-pronounce) word: Januzaj!

Lord TSC

Paul Tergat wrote: »

If we lose people say wtf is he doing starting an inexperienced 18 year old. I thought this was really obvious. You can imagine press and pundits calling it a gamble that backfired.

Its not the type of game we expect to play him in at all, the opposite in fact. Its far easier to blood these players when you are going well in the league, are winning easily at home with 30 mins left. Not when you are on a bad run, struggling and away from home

If we lost today, there's far more than Januzaj's selection for the media to target. But what you're saying then is the risk is in the form of fear of losing....against Sunderland. The idea we'd lose to Sunderland should not have been even considered today, but this whole idea of "risk" seems to predicate a fear of losing to bloody Sunderland. It's only a risk then if we're worried about losing to a team with 1 point in 6, so that's a far bigger problem that needs to be discussed then.

And aside from Januzaj, that was our strongest team really. He was being "blooded in" by having 10 hugely experienced players round him, and he still outshone them all. It might have been a risk if other second stringers started too, but the 10 other players should have been able to win the game without Januzaj...

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Playing an 18 year old in an away game in the league when the we lost 2 games in the trot was a risk, he could have just went with Nani-Valencia, Nani- Kagawa, Valencia - Kagawa any combination but he played Januzaj because he showed promise.

So it was a risk that he changed tactics which have lost two games and gave a player showing promise the reward of what should be an easy game? That's what defines a "risk"?

Sorry, but for me, it should be expected that after two losses, he changes things up and gives Januzaj that chance.

Compare that to ManUtd Vs Blackburn game when Pogba didn't get the game as Fergie didn't want to risk it. He could have done but opted for senior pros. That's playing safe, what Moyes did was taking risk.

Do you really want to go down the route of "Let's compare Moyes with Fergie?" :P

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

I agree no movement in first half and Hernandez would have created more problems with his movement.





Clev provided all round balance that Kag wouldn't as a partner for Carrick. It just wouldn't work.

I disagree. I think he should of been given a chance at the very least.

IvySlayer

Paul Tergat wrote: »

You reckon something isnt right? Some players dont like too interested at the moment. Not taking to his tactics/style?

Who knows, just seems like Moyes is not being listened to, here's an interesting graph though

How Soon Is Now

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Yes the first game I have seen cleverly where I would classify his contribution as definitely positive.

The lack of movement in general is worrying, with a lot of players recieving the ball and standing over it, looking for a pass, very rarely is there more than 1 or two teammates close enough around them.

And one (hard-to-pronounce) word: Januzaj!

A lot of the movement and passing was actually quite good actually enjoyed how we knocked the ball around there was just very little end product.

You could tell Van persie and Rooney had off days even there positioning seemed well off.

Like i said before we need to get Van persie back on top form scoring goals team suffers without him providing.

Pro. F

Delighted for Moyes. It was a ballsy moving starting Januzaj and it paid off in spades. Also brave starting Jones and he played well enough.

I was happy with a lot of what was going on in the first half. I thought all of RvP, Rooney, Nani, Januzaj, Raf and Evra were looking comfortable attacking and going past their markers, it was just a matter of getting the final ball or finish. Januzaj added the sauce in the second half. (Please sign a contract Adnan!)

Welbeck and Val did well when they came on imo and I'm happy with the way the team saw the game out.

Cleverley was too quiet in possession for me today, but he did do well defensively. I think Moyes has improved him massively there. Carrick had a good game.

The scoreline was close but we dominated possession and everybody looked confident (well except for the defence but they aren't settled yet). Overall I'm happy with that, even with the huge caveat that it was only Sunderland. Still loads of room for improvement but happy tonight.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

A serious question that I ask regardless of the game today.

What does Moyes bring to the team as manager?

I don't want snipes about getting behind the manager or attacking me as a fan. I'm not looking for answers which asks for faith based on faith shown by others (i.e. "Fergie picked him so we have to trust him"). I am asking for people to provide me a list or a detailed description of what Moyes offers to the club right now. And in many ways, I'm asking so that people who are loving United's struggles need answers and I'm struggling to give them.

Cause tactically, I think he's been nearing a disaster, public relations wise, he's been causing embarrassment, transfer wise, he didn't do anything. What are the strengths of David Moyes as a manager that people believe he'll turn things round?

For me: defensive organisation; adaptability (he's changed his style to being much more possession orientated then previously); good eye for a player, which would be a huge benefit in the long run; an understanding and willingness to adopt the club ethos; player discipline and attitude. Things haven't gone well just yet and he hasn't shown off his skills too well, but it is very early days yet.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

This idea of being "ballsey" for starting Januzaj confuses me. His options were Young (who is useless), Valencia (who is useless), Welbeck (who isn't a winger), Kagawa, Nani and Januzaj.

It was by process of elimination Januzaj got the start today. It was him or Kagawa. Moreso, if he's in the first team squad, it's games like today he SHOULD be starting.

It was ****ing Sunderland today, lads. A team who have 1 point in 7 games played. It's the type of game we should have been rotating players in and giving kids a chance. It's not that it was brave. We're not talking about starting him against City or Chelsea. It strikes me though that some people are so desperate for a silver lining, they're engaging in hyperbole to paper over the cracks.

It's great Januzaj got a start for United, he's a wonderful talent and we need to get him signed up permanently. But let's not bill this as David beating Goliath here.

This is completely unfair. It's all very easy to sit on your arse in front of your computer and pretend like starting an 18 year old in this game was an easy choice, but it most certainly was not. Jan could have been torn a new hole today if he didn't hit near the top of his game, plenty in this thread have warned against playing him. Moyes knew those risks.

Moyes is under huge pressure. If he hadn't won this game that pressure would have increased again. It's games like today, away from home when on a poor run and under huge pressure, where managers regularly shít themselves and stick with the experienced heads. But Moyes went balls out, the United way. He deserves praise for that.

Vic Vinegar

Michael Carrick completed 101 passes vs Sunderland while also winning 100% of his tackles & headers. Welcome to the 100 club. #MUFC

Januzaj Watch: 5 take-ons completed, 84% passing accuracy, 33.3% chance conversion rate & the Squawka MOTM. Amazing performance! #MUFC

Tom Cleverley completed more tackles against Sunderland (8) than he's managed in his previous 4 EPL outings this season combined (6). #MUFC

Good stuff.

Paul Tergat

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

If we lost today, there's far more than Januzaj's selection for the media to target.

Go on....

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But what you're saying then is the risk is in the form of fear of losing....against Sunderland. The idea we'd lose to Sunderland should not have been even considered today, but this whole idea of "risk" seems to predicate a fear of losing to bloody Sunderland. It's only a risk then if we're worried about losing to a team with 1 point in 6, so that's a far bigger problem that needs to be discussed then.

You do realise the position we are in. There is huge pressure on Moyes from all angles. Its a risk no matter to start an 18 year old against any team in this league away from home in the spot we are in.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

And aside from Januzaj, that was our strongest team really. He was being "blooded in" by having 10 hugely experienced players round him, and he still outshone them all. It might have been a risk if other second stringers started too, but the 10 other players should have been able to win the game without Januzaj...

Can you not see how there are far easier spots to blood him. 10 experienced players yes but a team that is not firing and in desperate need of a win. They should have been able to beat them, as they should WBA at home but didnt look like they could. He had the stones to start Adnan and it worked for him. In this instance, well done Moyes

IvySlayer

Has Moyes ever played 442 at Everton?

Paul Tergat

IvySlayer wrote: »

Who knows, just seems like Moyes is not being listened to, here's an interesting graph though

that aint a graph brah, needs some axes imo

Giggsy11

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So it was a risk that he changed tactics which have lost two games and gave a player showing promise the reward of what should be an easy game? That's what defines a "risk"?

Yes. He changed and played youngster which is a risk IMO.

Sorry, but for me, it should be expected that after two losses, he changes things up and gives Januzaj that chance.

Why Januzaj, he could have played Kagawa who was much safer bet, or Valencia and Welbeck for solidity but he chose a player who was weak defensively and unknown quality at this level. He was under pressure but he gave 18 year old chance which is a risky move.


[/QUOTE]Do you really want to go down the route of "Let's compare Moyes with Fergie?" :P[/QUOTE]

Not sure that's how I meant it. Just comparing how you can chose to risk it and play young player or ignore and stick with easy options.

Danye

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Good stuff.

We were playing Sunderland. I wouldn't get carried away those stats.

J. Marston

RasTa wrote: »

lol we'll have to disagree on that. You were calling for Moyes to be sacked at half time...

Still am. I already said scraping a win against Sunderland didn't change my mind.

Danye

Can I also say that I don't think it was as big a risk playing Januzai as some people think.

Everybody knows the boys quality so I don't know why it's a risk playing a quality player? We were also playing a poor Sunderland team.

Age should have nothing to do with it?

Lord TSC

Pro. F wrote: »

For me: defensive organisation; adaptability (he's changed his style to being much more possession orientated then previously); good eye for a player, which would be a huge benefit in the long run; an understanding and willingness to adopt the club ethos; player discipline and attitude. Things haven't gone well just yet and he hasn't shown off his skills too well, but it is very early days yet.

That's all fair enough and thanks for the answer. I just still don't know if those things are what Man United needed or if they were entirely unique to Moyes as a manager.

This is completely unfair. It's all very easy to sit on your arse in front of your computer and pretend like starting an 18 year old in this game was an easy choice, but it most certainly was not. Jan could have been torn a new hole today if he didn't hit near the top of his game, plenty in this thread have warned against playing him. Moyes knew those risks.

Moyes is under huge pressure. If he hadn't won this game that pressure would have increased again. It's games like today, away from home when on a poor run and under huge pressure, where managers regularly shít themselves and stick with the experienced heads. But Moyes went balls out, the United way. He deserves praise for that.

See, this is where I get annoyed though; you give out about me sitting on my ass at my computer moaning, but then try and list the fact plenty in this thread warned him against Januzaj as a reason he should be considered brave. Either the opinion of this thread matters and should be considered, or it shouldn't.

And tbh, if he didn't hit near the top of his game against Sunderland, who would he this season? If he didn't play well today, against the team bottom of the table, who could we expect him to play well against. If ever there was a game to give Januzaj the chance to "introduce" himself and display his talents, it was this one.

Meanwhile, again I point out, there other 10 players WERE experienced heads. Hernandez and Kagawa could have started over RVP and Rooney if he wanted to "take a risk", but instead he opted for the proven players, even though RVP is out of form. Could have used Smalling in alongside Jones as our center backs if he wanted to risk.

For me, a "risk" would have been dropping half the team and giving lesser played players a go. Instead, he actually did play a very, very strong team, and made the (right) decision to play Januzaj over the useless Young and Valencia, and the out of position Welbeck.

To me, it just really, really shouldn't be considered a risk. I get there's many desperate for the silver lining after the rough week Moyes has had, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on how big a risk it was I guess.

DM_7

Danye wrote: »

I disagree. I think he should of been given a chance at the very least.

If he was given a chance it needs to be in a position that would benefit the team and himself. Playing in midfield alongside Carrick wouldn't be giving him a chance, it would be playing him out of position and hurting the team when better options exist.

Vic Vinegar

Danye wrote: »

We were playing Sunderland. I wouldn't get carried away those stats.

I'm not.

cson

Januzaj looks like a serious prospect. Moyes really needed that - you can see the team is bereft of confidence. That RVP chance near the end said it all; last year the net would have been bulging.

scudzilla

cson wrote: »

Januzaj looks like a serious prospect. Moyes really needed that - you can see the team is bereft of confidence. That RVP chance near the end said it all; last year the net would have been bulging.

It's not the only thing that was bulging for RvP last season, this season i can barely manage a semi for him

BigBabyTaylor

Regardless of Sunderland's position in the league at the moment I don't know how some people are calling them the "worst team in the league". Were United the 8th Worst team in the league before the match started? I'm basing this on the talent and skill that both squads have obviously and by my reckoning there will be much easier matches to come. Fair enough it's a match that United should be expected to win of course but so is West Brom at home.

Sunderland put in an extremely good organised performance today and were great at closing down players quickly and keeping their shape. It might have been an ugly game of football but it definitely wasn't an easy game so there is some credit due for pulling a win out of a difficult game when the team are clearly dejected.

The_Kew_Tour

gosplan wrote: »

That'd be the bit where you reframed some arguments of mine and said something along the lines of 'oh dear'

Where did I reframe your arguments and you honestly telling me "oh dear" is disrespecting you?

you taking the piss???