Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Rayne Wooney

The service to RVP has been shocking so far and people made a lot more out of that miss at the end than there was in it.

DM_7

At some point we are going to have to stop saying Welbeck is playing out of position. Playing from a wide position or and coming inside looks to be the best use of all his attributes right now.

Reminds me of Muller, as a guy who can play in any of the attacking positions.

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

If he was given a chance it needs to be in a position that would benefit the team and himself. Playing in midfield alongside Carrick wouldn't be giving him a chance, it would be playing him out of position and hurting the team when better options exist.

He would of done what Cleverly did the 2nd half which was beneficial to the team.

He didnt have to stand in the middle of the park shoulder to shoulder with Carrick just the way that Cleverlu didn't play that way either.

He's been played out of position before so what was the difference playing him in a game against the team rooted to the foot of the table. I'm sure he knows he has to start showing what he's capable of soon. He might of revelled this evening.

Paul Tergat

DM-ICE wrote: »

At some point we are going to have to stop saying Welbeck is playing out of position. Playing from a wide position or and coming inside looks to be the best use of all his attributes right now.

Reminds me of Muller, as a guy who can play in any of the attacking positions.

If this is the case though its as part of a front 3 with a midfield 3 behind him. Not as a wide midfielder in a 4-4-2

Paul Tergat

Anyway peoples, off for a beer to celebrate the big win :P

Have a good evening folks

Danye

BigBabyTaylor wrote: »

Regardless of Sunderland's position in the league at the moment I don't know how some people are calling them the "worst team in the league". Were United the 8th Worst team in the league before the match started? I'm basing this on the talent and skill that both squads have obviously and by my reckoning there will be much easier matches to come. Fair enough it's a match that United should be expected to win of course but so is West Brom at home.

Sunderland put in an extremely good organised performance today and were great at closing down players quickly and keeping their shape. It might have been an ugly game of football but it definitely wasn't an easy game so there is some credit due for pulling a win out of a difficult game when the team are clearly dejected.

You can't apply for league positions on the basis of the strength of your squad. You have to go out and prove it.

It's like that myth "Too good to go down" The league table never lies.

Danye

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Anyway peoples, off for a beer to celebrate the big win :P

Have a good evening folks

Just the one?? :P

Vic Vinegar

Danye wrote: »

He would of done what Cleverly did the 2nd half which was beneficial to the team.

He didnt have to stand in the middle of the park shoulder to shoulder with Carrick just the way that Cleverlu didn't play that way either.

He's been played out of position before so what was the difference playing him in a game against the team rooted to the foot of the table. I'm sure he knows he has to start showing what he's capable of soon. He might of revelled this evening.

Cleverley is miles better than Kagawa in a CM position and i think you know that too deep down. You just like to argue the point anyway, the same as you always like getting in the last word.

Paul Tergat

Danye wrote: »

Just the one?? :P

Lets go f*cking mental, lets go f*cking mental...

Pro. F

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

That's all fair enough and thanks for the answer. I just still don't know if those things are what Man United needed or if they were entirely unique to Moyes as a manager.

You asked what does Moyes bring, not what does Moyes bring that is unique.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

See, this is where I get annoyed though; you give out about me sitting on my ass at my computer moaning, but then try and list the fact plenty in this thread warned him against Januzaj as a reason he should be considered brave. Either the opinion of this thread matters and should be considered, or it shouldn't.

And tbh, if he didn't hit near the top of his game against Sunderland, who would he this season? If he didn't play well today, against the team bottom of the table, who could we expect him to play well against. If ever there was a game to give Januzaj the chance to "introduce" himself and display his talents, it was this one.

Meanwhile, again I point out, there other 10 players WERE experienced heads. Hernandez and Kagawa could have started over RVP and Rooney if he wanted to "take a risk", but instead he opted for the proven players, even though RVP is out of form. Could have used Smalling in alongside Jones as our center backs if he wanted to risk.

For me, a "risk" would have been dropping half the team and giving lesser played players a go. Instead, he actually did play a very, very strong team, and made the (right) decision to play Januzaj over the useless Young and Valencia, and the out of position Welbeck.

To me, it just really, really shouldn't be considered a risk. I get there's many desperate for the silver lining after the rough week Moyes has had, and we'll just have to agree to disagree on how big a risk it was I guess.

I didn't say that your opinion doesn't matter. I said that it's easy for you to think it's not a brave decision when you wouldn't have to live with the consequences. It looks to me like you are lacking a lot of empathy in understanding how much pressure a manager in Moyes' position is under. Plenty of managers bottle it in those situations and go with the more predictable, older players. Today Moyes did not.

Young players are notoriously inconsistent and unpredictable. Januzaj could play against a League 1 team in a cup game and be shíte and then play against a PL team another weak and rock. It's always a risk when playing young players that they will have a poor day and cause problems.

The_Kew_Tour

The league table never lies is true

at the end of the season.

Danye

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Cleverley is miles better than Kagawa in a CM position and i think you know that too deep down. You just like to argue the point anyway, the same as you always like getting in the last word.

I'm after stating that Kagawa didn't have to play right in beside Carrick. He could of played 10-15 yards further up the field.

You think I know that deep down? Haha my God. What a statement to make.

I always like getting the last word in? Care to expand?

Giggsy11

Danye wrote: »

He would of done what Cleverly did the 2nd half which was beneficial to the team.

He didnt have to stand in the middle of the park shoulder to shoulder with Carrick just the way that Cleverlu didn't play that way either.

He's been played out of position before so what was the difference playing him in a game against the team rooted to the foot of the table. I'm sure he knows he has to start showing what he's capable of soon. He might of revelled this evening.

Cleverley won 8 tackles which was important in winning back possession. To even think Kagawa should play as CM is so absurd, it's like wanting Mata/Ozil to play as a CM. They are not. They are playmakers, #10. Not a CM and never will be one.

Jimmy Iovine

Oh dear...

Manchester United ‏@ManUtd 26m
David Moyes confirms @FellainiM missed today's match with a wrist injury. "It doesn't look good. We'll send him to see a specialist." #mufc

Giggsy11

Danye wrote: »

I'm after stating that Kagawa didn't have to play right in beside Carrick. He could of played 10-15 yards further up the field.

You think I know that deep down? Haha my God. What a statement to make.

I always like getting the last word in? Care to expand?

Play with 1 CM and get murdered on counter attacks?

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The league table never lies is true

at the end of the season.

At any stage really bar maybe after the first two games. After 7 league games if your top you deserve it because your the form team in the league at that time.

If your bottom it's because your form was so poor.

ericzeking

Absolutely delighted with that result. Januzaj looks a serious player, hopefully his future gets sorted. Encouraged by Moyes comments about not being worried about it.
Some good performances tonight, what's worrying me though is the performances of some of our older heads, rvp tonight, vidic in the last couple of games and Rio all season, I just get a vibe from the carelessness of the play that it has to do with a lack of fear/respect for a relatively inexperienced manager. I hope Moyes f#cked rvp out of it for that miss...Fergie would have been absolutely raging.
On the flip side some of our young guns are really stepping up, liked Jones performance tonight, Clev was good, Michael Carrick and Rooney were solid. Nani while only fair tonight just carries a threat that Val and Young don't.

The_Kew_Tour

Danye wrote: »

At any stage really bar maybe after the first two games. After 7 league games if your top you deserve it because your the form team in the league at that time.

If your bottom it's because your form was so poor.

its about 70% accurate.

you have to look at teams played too.

end of season everybody has played everyone.

Lord TSC

Pro. F wrote: »

Plenty of managers bottle it in those situations and go with the more predictable, older players. Today Moyes did not.

But for me, he did play the predictable older players.

The only positions he didn't play his "strongest" option, in terms of experience, was center back and out on the left.

Rio needed a rest, so it was between Jones and Smalling there (come to think, where is Evans gone again? Not even on the bench today).

On the left, he had Young, Welbeck, Kagawa or Januzaj. Young has been useless, Welbeck not much better when out there and people complain when Kags is played out there (and for some reason, United staff don't seem to be rating him at all at the momen). To go with experience there would have been a bigger risk, imo, since it would have meant playing Young or Welbeck. To drop them and give Januzaj the chance to prove himself was, in my opinion, less of a risk than playing the others who've been costing us points again.

Otherwise, it was our strongest team really out there from the players available.

The_Kew_Tour

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Oh dear...

You would think with all the money he has that **** would put him out of action

Giggsy11

Danye wrote: »

At any stage really bar maybe after the first two games. After 7 league games if your top you deserve it because your the form team in the league at that time.

If your bottom it's because your form was so poor.

Joes for all the BS he spots came up with good point yesterday. Some teams are helped by initial fixtures list and he said ManUtd have the hardest and by December it'l be clear as all the teams play against all other teams.

Danye

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Play with 1 CM and get murdered on counter attacks?

He could of played 10 or 15 yards in front of Carrick. When we hadn't got the ball he could of tucked in. It's quite a simple concept. With him in our team our ball retention would of been better also.

If we keep the ball, defend as a unit and press high were very unlikely to be caught on a counter attack whilst being able to play one of our best players (Kagawa)

Jimmy Iovine

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You would think with all the money he has that **** would put him out of action

The girls mustn't like the hair.

Danye

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Joes for all the BS he spots came up with good point yesterday. Some teams are helped by initial fixtures list and he said ManUtd have the hardest and by December it'l be clear as all the teams play against all other teams.

Sorry who?

DM_7

Danye wrote: »

He would of done what Cleverly did the 2nd half which was beneficial to the team.

He didnt have to stand in the middle of the park shoulder to shoulder with Carrick just the way that Cleverlu didn't play that way either.

He's been played out of position before so what was the difference playing him in a game against the team rooted to the foot of the table. I'm sure he knows he has to start showing what he's capable of soon. He might of revelled this evening.

The opposition's league position is not hugely relevant in this case.

Kagawa wouldn't have played like Cleverley at all. Getting forward (which Clev did in both halves) is only part of the job. Cleverley was also making tackles, closing down players, dropping deep to keep the ball moving in possession etc.

He played as a central midfielder beside Carrick.

Kagawa couldn't do all of that and shouldn't be asked to do it as he is not a cm.

Before the game and when the lineups were announced it was a dislike for Clev that had you wanting Kagawa picked and United playing a diamond formation more than wanting Kag in midfield on merit. As it turned out Cleverley put in an all round good performance. Sunderland were organised, pressed hard and played three players in midfield - a diamond would not have helped United and left Carrick with huge problems.

Kag couldn't play the role Cleverley played.

Mars Bar

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Oh dear...

Evra has been playing in a cast or a splint recently and he seems to be getting by. Not the first time either...

The_Kew_Tour

Al Capwned

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Oh dear...

(Re: Fellaini's injury)

I noticed him a couple of times on the tv on wednesday night that he was pulling at his sleeve, or so i thought.
Looked like he was wringing his wrist out or something - mate of mine thought his body armour was too small and he was pulling it down when I mentioned it to him.

Seems not! Hope it's not too serious, still reckon he'll be very very good for us!

Giggsy11

Danye wrote: »

Sorry who?

Jose.

Edit: *Facepalm*

homerjay2005

ericzeking wrote: »

.
On the flip side some of our young guns are really stepping up, liked Jones performance tonight

jones was poor for most of the game, they only had one up top and even at this, when he was put under any bit of pressure, he looked rattled.

Vidic is being blamed for the goal, but Jones didnt exactly cover himself in glory...he hung vidic out to dry with a hospital ball. jones then almost cost us a 2nd goal and was nowhere to be seen for the header and dived in far too quickly (almost gave away a penalty) for their last chance.

didnt help that Vidic was very bad also though, it was a very shaky defensive partnership.

thankfully midfield got on top and we had around 70%+ possession in the second half so Jones and Vidic had nothing to do except mop up balls into the box.

Evans and Smalling need to get more game time in the middle, Rio and Vidic look poor at the moment, though maybe the international break will give them 2 weeks to settle in.

Pro. F

J. Marston wrote: »

Take off the stat blinkers. Sunderland dominated the first half and could've been three up (the goal, De Gea's unreal save from Giaccherini and the chance they blew over just near half time).

In the first half
Completed passes: Sunderland 92 - United 239
Completed passes in attacking third: Sunderland 38 - United 62
Goal attempts: Sunderland 5 - United 7
Corners: Sunderland 1 - United 4
Crosses: Sunderland 6 - United 22

Sunderland dominated the half? What the fúck game were you watching?

RasTa

Can you still play footy with a cast on? I broke my wrist learning to snowboard so went back to skiing whilst it healed.

homerjay2005

thought this was a good one...

Adnan Januzaj should be allowed to stay up past his normal bedtime to watch #MOTD tonight.

DM_7

Paul Tergat wrote: »

If this is the case though its as part of a front 3 with a midfield 3 behind him. Not as a wide midfielder in a 4-4-2

That or was not meant to be there,

Was meant to be playing from wide left and coming inside.

I think he is perfectly good in a four man midfield once he is also coming inside from the wing, just going up and down in a straight line no thanks,

Danye

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

its about 70% accurate.

you have to look at teams played too.

end of season everybody has played everyone.

I'd argue it's 100% accurate. Although I kind of understand where your coming from.

If We're top by Christmas it's because we'll deserve to be despite only being half way through our fixtures.

Your Airbag

In all fairness its not that much of a risk to pick Januzaj when he goes past players like Giggs in his prime and our fall backs are Young and Valencia.

Get some strenght and conditioning work done on him as he can be easily injured as he is.

ericzeking

homerjay2005 wrote: »

jones was poor for most of the game, they only had one up top and even at this, when he was put under any bit of pressure, he looked rattled.

Vidic is being blamed for the goal, but Jones didnt exactly cover himself in glory...he hung vidic out to dry with a hospital ball. jones then almost cost us a 2nd goal and was nowhere to be seen for the header and dived in far too quickly (almost gave away a penalty) for their last chance.

didnt help that Vidic was very bad also though, it was a very shaky defensive partnership.

thankfully midfield got on top and we had around 70%+ possession in the second half so Jones and Vidic had nothing to do except mop up balls into the box.

Evans and Smalling need to get more game time in the middle, Rio and Vidic look poor at the moment, though maybe the international break will give them 2 weeks to settle in.

I thought Jones did well, the goal was all vidic if you ask me, Tuesday night was a tough ball to deal with but there was no excuse tonight... you have to admit though homer you've a bit of a blind spot with him(Jones).
Thought Evans was looking the real deal last season, disappointed his appearances are so fleeting. Regardless of our quality back up, Rio and Vida's form is so worrying.

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

jones was poor for most of the game, they only had one up top and even at this, when he was put under any bit of pressure, he looked rattled.

Lol, no he wasn't and lol no he didn't. You really do suck when it comes to objectively analysing defenders.

Rayne Wooney

I thought Nani did okay, when he had space he tried to make things happen, Sunderland did crowd him out for a lot of the game though, there was a few times 3 players would go to dispossess him, it's a huge improvement over Valencia anyway and he's the type of player who gets better the more he plays IMO.

I'd like to hear what Moyes' plans for Kagawa are

DM_7

homerjay2005 wrote: »

jones was poor for most of the game, they only had one up top and even at this, when he was put under any bit of pressure, he looked rattled.

Vidic is being blamed for the goal, but Jones didnt exactly cover himself in glory...he hung vidic out to dry with a hospital ball. jones then almost cost us a 2nd goal and was nowhere to be seen for the header and dived in far too quickly (almost gave away a penalty) for their last chance.

didnt help that Vidic was very bad also though, it was a very shaky defensive partnership.

thankfully midfield got on top and we had around 70%+ possession in the second half so Jones and Vidic had nothing to do except mop up balls into the box.

Evans and Smalling need to get more game time in the middle, Rio and Vidic look poor at the moment, though maybe the international break will give them 2 weeks to settle in.

To be fair Jones was poor in the air particularly in the first half but hasn't played regularly as a centre half this season. Smalling and Evans were the same under long balls v Liverpool in the league cup.

Danye

DM-ICE wrote: »

The opposition's league position is not hugely relevant in this case.

Kagawa wouldn't have played like Cleverley at all. Getting forward (which Clev did in both halves) is only part of the job. Cleverley was also making tackles, closing down players, dropping deep to keep the ball moving in possession etc.

He played as a central midfielder beside Carrick.

Kagawa couldn't do all of that and shouldn't be asked to do it as he is not a cm.

Before the game and when the lineups were announced it was a dislike for Clev that had you wanting Kagawa picked and United playing a diamond formation more than wanting Kag in midfield on merit. As it turned out Cleverley put in an all round good performance. Sunderland were organised, pressed hard and played three players in midfield - a diamond would not have helped United and left Carrick with huge problems.

Kag couldn't play the role Cleverley played.

There's no point in Cleverly getting forward just for the sake of it. What did he offer on the final 3rd? Kagawa would of been more effective.

If Kagawa pushed further forward he would of created space for Carrick to drop and get the ball so Kagawa wouldn't of needed to drop like Cleverly.

That's a silly point to make. I didn't want Cleverly playing because of a personal dislike. I want our best players playing. Of course I wanted him there from the start and not just because Cleverly was playing.

I've expressed how poor I think Cleverly is before but I actually think he done ok tonight which I've already mentioned earlier.

A diamond would of helped playing against Sunderland. Carttermole is Sunderlands most effective player. Kagawa playing further up the park would of pre occupied him and pulled him about at the very worst. Then if Kagawa was able to get on the ball hr could of provided for our front players.

SirDelboy18

Muppet post of the day.


The name Adnan means "settler" or "to stay".

OMFG PLS :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

mewe

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Love the way he's runnin away to celebrate. Outstandin save.

The_Kew_Tour

mewe wrote: »

Love the way he's runnin away to celebrate. Outstandin save.

did not even notice that:pac:

good spot.

DM_7

Danye wrote: »

There's no point in Cleverly getting forward just for the sake of it. What did he offer on the final 3rd? Kagawa would of been more effective.

If Kagawa pushed further forward he would of created space for Carrick to drop and get the ball so Kagawa wouldn't of needed to drop like Cleverly.

That's a silly point to make. I didn't want Cleverly playing because of a personal dislike. I want our best players playing. Of course I wanted him there from the start and not just because Cleverly was playing.

I've expressed how poor I think Cleverly is before but I actually think he done ok tonight which I've already mentioned earlier.

A diamond would of helped playing against Sunderland. Carttermole is Sunderlands most effective player. Kagawa playing further up the park would of pre occupied him and pulled him about at the very worst. Then if Kagawa was able to get on the ball hr could of provided for our front players.

I am sure you stated, when the line ups were announced, that you wanted Kagawa in the team over Cleverley and United playing a diamond to accomodate him.

Before the match I was happy to say Kagawa wouldn't be able to operate as an all round cm like Cleverley. Others pointed out before I got to that Sunderland's formation would have left United in bother if a diamond was played,.

As it turned out Sunderland pressed hard, left no space in central areas and actually invited United to move the ball wide so playing Kagawa 15 yards ahead of Carrick would not have helped retain more possession. It would have left Carrick exposed and outnumbered in the central area.

Danye

mewe wrote: »

Love the way he's runnin away to celebrate. Outstandin save.

What a save! If that went in how different a game might it of been?

How poor was the marking though?

It is a bit of a surreal experience to be looking up the table and working out how many points it will take to break the top 6/4/2 but we will get there. Today's performance was promising but still a tough watch at times as most of our games of late have been. There seems to be a lack of communication and presence in the final 3rd/18 yard area which hasn't been there in recent seasons gone by. While our teams on paper look like they should have no problem scoring goals, it is proving to be the case that it can be quite hard to break the opposition's line.

Some of the crosses that were swung in today from the likes of Evra, Nani, and Rooney went nowhere near a Utd player and too often we made it easy for Sunderland to go on the counter attack. Still though I am delighted with the result and take some light out of the overall team performance. Jones needs to cement that CB spot as his own, I really don't want to see him rotated around several positions for another season. The tackle he made to recover the ball after giving possession away cheaply to Gardiner was perfect, even if a Suarez or Ozil would have had the ball buried in the net by the time Jones got off the ground.

Januzaj should be tied down under the weight of a long hefty contract asap. The boy is clearly playing beyond his years, so pay him as such if that's what it takes. I would give credit to Moyes for playing the 18 year old, but just a much for going another game without playing Ashley Young.

Great to see Nani get the start and minutes on the field, but it wasn't his day to shine. Even at that though, I'd sooner have him by light years than Valencia or Young. Nani is constantly moving forward and can take on and beat a man. He could have let the ball go a good 4 seconds earlier today in a lot of his possession as far as I'm concerned, but still was a constant threat to the Sunderland full-backs during his 75 minutes on the field.

So 9th position after 7 games, it is what it is. When the league resumes after international break, the run of games we have could see us break the top 6 and beyond. That is if only lessons are learned from recent defeats/performances and Moyes approaches the likes of Southampton, Stoke, Fulham and Cardiff with the frame of mind he did against Sunderland; We are here to win and we will attack them for 90 minutes. The Arsenal game is a tough call, but if we were to play them next week I wouldn't be putting my money on a win.

The_Kew_Tour

On little side note, but Chris Woods looks as fit now as he did when he was in his prime. Not changed a bit.

mewe

Danye wrote: »

What a save! If that went in how different a game might it of been?

How poor was the marking though?

Yeah the markin was terrible alright,some serious ball watchin goin on. Our defendin has been worryin so far this season.

DM_7

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

On little side note, but Chris Woods looks as fit now as he did when he was in his prime. Not changed a bit.

He does, now have youbany idea who he is talking to on the headset?