Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

The_Kew_Tour

DM-ICE wrote: »

He does, now have youbany idea who he is talking to on the headset?

Fergie;)

Mars Bar

Moyes confirms the English FA have approached Man Utd and Adnan Janujaz over the teenager's eligibility for England

Wut? If the lad has a brain or his advisors have brains, he should definitely not be declaring for England if he is eligible.

J. Marston

Mars Bar wrote: »

Wut? If the lad has a brain or his advisors have brains, he should definitely not be declaring for England if he is eligible.

Didn't know he could be eligible for England. I remember reading somewhere that he could play Belgium or Albania, and that he was leaning towards Albania.

homerjay2005

J. Marston wrote: »

Didn't know he could be eligible for England. I remember reading somewhere that he could play Belgium or Albania, and that he was leaning towards Albania.

i think the England thing is based on residency, some new rules for that isnt there?

in theory, once they live there, they can become citizens and then are eligible. sure isnt that Baba lad from Castlebar the ireland underage captain?

case885

Is it time moyes puts some trust in zaha too now that januzaj did so well and valencia youngs playing very poorly.

J. Marston

case885 wrote: »

Is it time moyes puts some trust in zaha too now that januzaj did so well and valencia youngs playing very poorly.

Rumours are (no, not those ones!) that he's going on loan in January so I don't think we'll see him get an extended run in the team.

But I will be surprised and disappointed if Zaha doesn't start the League Cup match against Norwich.

VW 1

Mars Bar wrote: »

Wut? If the lad has a brain or his advisors have brains, he should definitely not be declaring for England if he is eligible.

The lad qualifies for Belgium due to growing up there but as both his parents are displaced emigrants from Albania due to war he has strong ties/links/desire to play for what he sees as his own country, Albania.

Rayne Wooney

He qualifies for England, Belgium, Albania, Serbia and Turkey afaik.

Fair play to him if he goes with Albania.

FutureGuy

Rumors that Fellaini is out for 3 months. Pinch of salt highly recommended. If it's a wrist complaint, can't he just wear a protective cast?

Rayne Wooney

FutureGuy wrote: »

Rumors that Fellaini is out for 3 months. Pinch of salt highly recommended. If it's a wrist complaint, can't he just wear a protective cast?

MagicIRL

After 27mill, I expect him to play even with no arms at all.

Lucas Hood

Januzaj is also eligible for Kosovo , but they aren't allowed play competitive football .

Rhys Essien

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Januzaj is also eligible for Kosovo , but they aren't allowed play competitive football .

Kosovo would be his first choice as his parents are Kosovar Albanian,but as the Kosovo International team are not up and running,he will go with Albania.

Great loyalty from the kid.

Meanwhile Paul Green at 27 'decided' he will play for Ireland as his chance with England will never come and we put him straight into the team.:(

dfx-

mewe wrote: »

Yeah the markin was terrible alright,some serious ball watchin goin on. Our defendin has been worryin so far this season.

Vidic is terrible for the move, he looks in all four directions in the gif, despite being right in front of Vidic and he is looking at him as the ball is crossed....

tallaghtmick

On Cleverly I think he has been good the last few games, obviously hes not gonna light up games but hes doing a job and hes doing it better than Fellaini and Carrick at the moment. A 3 man mid of Carrick Fellaini and Clev with Kagawa behind Rooney and RVP would suit us I think with our wingers under performing.

lordgoat

Mars Bar wrote: »

Wut? If the lad has a brain or his advisors have brains, he should definitely not be declaring for England if he is eligible.

Why not? He possibly had the same sort of affinity to it as Belgium? As in, he's not from either just lived in them for part of his life. He seems a well grounded guy so far.

kryogen

Im sure its been posted already, but still. Unbelievable tekkers Jeff

Giggsy11

lordgoat wrote: »

Why not? He possibly had the same sort of affinity to it as Belgium? As in, he's not from either just lived in them for part of his life. He seems a well grounded guy so far.

Born, brought up in Belgium and his youth coaching was done there. Pretty sure that's more than just staying in Belgium.

On the game yesterday, watched highlights again. Sunderland created **** all. Their goal was just a flukey mistake from Vidic and their only best chance Johnson dribbling all the way, which was fantastic and only piece of play where they really threatened to score without our defender's sloppy mistakes.

We controlled the game enough, only concern is we are not creating much. Evra was hopelessly hitting aerial crosses to far post, in the second half he drilled 2 crosses which resulted in 1 goal and 1 goal scoring opportunity to RVP. Not sure why this season we are not mixing up the crosses.

jaykay74

lordgoat wrote: »

Why not? He possibly had the same sort of affinity to it as Belgium? As in, he's not from either just lived in them for part of his life. He seems a well grounded guy so far.

One reason would be it looks like he would have to wait until he was 23 to play international football if I am reading the below right...

See Article 7.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/66/54/21/fifastatutes2012e.pdf

7 Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who refers to art. 5 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who
has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par. 2 shall be
eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfi ls one of the
following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of
the relevant Association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the
relevant Association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of
18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

gosplan

mewe wrote: »

Yeah the markin was terrible alright,some serious ball watchin goin on. Our defendin has been worryin so far this season.

This is not a dig at Utd and intended as a genuine observation.

I thought the defending was pretty poor for large spells of last season. However Fergie's motivational magic and his ability to get great second halves from his team got Utd out of it.

Moyes actually needs them to defend very solidly. I don't think he'll be able to pull it out of the bag enough if his team keeps giving away the first goal.

mewe

gosplan wrote: »

This is not a dig at Utd and intended as a genuine observation.

I thought the defending was pretty poor for large spells of last season. However Fergie's motivational magic and his ability to get great second halves from his team got Utd out of it.

Moyes actually needs them to defend very solidly. I don't think he'll be able to pull it out of the bag enough if his team keeps giving away the first goal.

There were some bad spells last season alright. I thought Rio was excellent though and when Vidic came back in we were much improved for the second half of the season.

We've definitely looked weaker in defence so far this season but i'd be hopeful as time goes on with some good work on the training pitch confidence can build and we'll improve.

Maybe the players will believe in Moyes and his methods more if we get a bit of a run under our belts. It's somethin i've been wonderin about. Is the belief in Moyes there?

homerjay2005

Giggsy11 wrote: »

On the game yesterday, watched highlights again. Sunderland created **** all.

hang on, hang on. they could have had 4 goals in the first half, doesnt matter if they came from mistakes, they pressured United into them and their first goal was from some good play.

the goal
the last ditch tackle from Jones with 2 men free and Gardiner should have passed it earlier.
the header/save.
the chance right on half time that he put over from 9 yards out.

those 4 chances were almost exactly similar to the 4 goals that City got....we were the better team, but they had the better chances in the first half and against a team who were much better than Sunderland, we could have been at least 2-0 down at half time.

for the amount of possession we have, our creativity this season has been appalling, the worst ive ever seen from us. the thing is, everybody knew this would happen as we didnt do anything to address it during the transfer window and for that Moyes needs to accept his share of the blame.

i assume he expects to sign players in January....i can see Baines finally coming in, but apart from him, which top class, world class players would honestly want to play for us right now? our chance was during the Summer and Moyes and Woodward made a mess of it.

Devil08

I think it was more Woodward who made a mess of things. Moyes identified his targets and left it to Woodward to do the negotiating which he made a balls of.
He wanted Tiago, he wanted Fabregas, he wanted Herrera, all would have made a significant difference to our team. Woodward failed to get them in, not Moyes.

I still think most players would want to play for Utd, I doubt any player would not sign for us based on this seasons form so far.

The_Kew_Tour

Ozil signed for a team who wont have won a trophy for 9 seasons at least.

Plenty of top talent will come to United if price is right

Cantona's Collars

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ozil signed for a team who wont have won a trophy for 9 seasons at least.

Plenty of top talent will come to United if price is right

Plus we are still Champions,pity Woodward made such a balls of things pre-season.

Latest is that we are gonna offer £15 million + Valencia for Baines.Moyes really has a hard on for him,can he play in CM aswell??

Lord TSC

Honestly, I think it's too big an excuse to blame it on the transfer window. Yes, it would have helped if we got in a creative midfielder, but given the treatment some players are getting already, combined with how negative tactics have been so far this year, I don't know if a creative midfielder would have changed our fortunes drastically this year.

It's certainly an aspect of the problem we're facing right now, but it's only one part.

Mitch Connor

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Honestly, I think it's too big an excuse to blame it on the transfer window. Yes, it would have helped if we got in a creative midfielder, but given the treatment some players are getting already, combined with how negative tactics have been so far this year, I don't know if a creative midfielder would have changed our fortunes drastically this year.

It's certainly an aspect of the problem we're facing right now, but it's only one part.

Indeed - tactics and player performance are the reason we lost to West Brom, struggled vs Sunderland, humiliated vs City etc - not the lack of Fabregas.

JRant

homerjay2005 wrote: »

hang on, hang on. they could have had 4 goals in the first half, doesnt matter if they came from mistakes, they pressured United into them and their first goal was from some good play.

the goal
the last ditch tackle from Jones with 2 men free and Gardiner should have passed it earlier.
the header/save.
the chance right on half time that he put over from 9 yards out.

those 4 chances were almost exactly similar to the 4 goals that City got....we were the better team, but they had the better chances in the first half and against a team who were much better than Sunderland, we could have been at least 2-0 down at half time.

for the amount of possession we have, our creativity this season has been appalling, the worst ive ever seen from us. the thing is, everybody knew this would happen as we didnt do anything to address it during the transfer window and for that Moyes needs to accept his share of the blame.

i assume he expects to sign players in January....i can see Baines finally coming in, but apart from him, which top class, world class players would honestly want to play for us right now? our chance was during the Summer and Moyes and Woodward made a mess of it.

They could very easily have been 3 up at half time. Only for a wonder save and some poor decisions in our box that game was over by half time.

Watching yesterday and it is very clear that Evra has forgotten how to be a fullback. His positioning is awful, decision making dreadful and can't seem to tackle anymore. The amount of times our centre backs got pulled out of position because of him is a real cause for concern. I'd say a new left back is top of the shopping list come January alright but not sure it'll be Baines, possibly Contreau.

Clevs put a good performance in but the chap just has no creativity at all. The amount of times he ran forward crowding out our front men was shocking.

Another problem is that we are a very one sided team. Sunderland were able to flood defenders to our right hand side, giving Nani very little space. We had no outlet on the left and haven't for some time now. Very predictable and easy to defend against.

Cantona's Collars

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Honestly, I think it's too big an excuse to blame it on the transfer window. Yes, it would have helped if we got in a creative midfielder, but given the treatment some players are getting already, combined with how negative tactics have been so far this year, I don't know if a creative midfielder would have changed our fortunes drastically this year.

It's certainly an aspect of the problem we're facing right now, but it's only one part.

To highlight the problem,just watch how Carrick is playing,he has nobody in front of him showing for the ball to act as the link between him and our forwards and wingers,RVP and Rooney are almost playing as AM's and their potency up front is suffering,how many clear cut chances did RVP get against a poor enough Sunderland team? One!!

Carrick is being forced to pass sideways or back due to lack of movement ahead of him or at best forcing a pass forward which ends up with the ball being lost.Just look at Bayern the other night,they had a full back playing in the DM role and he thrived due to one thing-movement.As it stands,watching United at times is akin to watching somebody playing FIFA for the first time.

Cleverly at least tried to inject some movement and impetus into our play but I'm not sure he's the guy to carry our midfield.Fellaini still seems over-awed to be at the club and is yet to show the form he did at Everton.

Our wingers are so out of form,perhaps it's time for a change of formation,Kagawa has vision,intelligent movement and can get goals but is criminally underused or played out of position in such a rigid formation that his talents are negated.

Perhaps a basic way of showing how little our midfielders contribute in an attacking sense is to look at the Fantasy Football site,our highest scoring mid is Januzaj with 19 points,he got 14 of those yesterday.As I said a basic way of displaying it but very telling.

JRant

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Honestly, I think it's too big an excuse to blame it on the transfer window. Yes, it would have helped if we got in a creative midfielder, but given the treatment some players are getting already, combined with how negative tactics have been so far this year, I don't know if a creative midfielder would have changed our fortunes drastically this year.

It's certainly an aspect of the problem we're facing right now, but it's only one part.

I can understand the conservative approach taken by Moyes. He wanted to make us solid and then progress as we got players back. Unfortunately for him Rio has started this season poorly, Vidic looks like he's playing against Torres, from his Liverpool days, every week and Evra is playing like a drain (his standing there watching Kun score twice pretty much sums him up).

If we keep leaking soft goals it's going to be a long hard slog for Moyes, the players and us fans.

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

To highlight the problem,just watch how Carrick is playing,he has nobody in front of him showing for the ball to act as the link between him and our forwards and wingers

But those deficiencies have been there for years, and yet we were still winning things. Don't get me wrong, I dont want to appear to be underestimating how good Fergie was covering over that problem, but if anything, the lack of transfers means it's the same team as has always had those problems, so why is it now we suddenly don't have an answer for them?

Again I say, the transfers would have helped but a lack of them shouldn't have caused the utter regression we've seen so far.

Cantona's Collars

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

But those deficiencies have been there for years, and yet we were still winning things. Don't get me wrong, I dont want to appear to be underestimating how good Fergie was covering over that problem, but if anything, the lack of transfers means it's the same team as has always had those problems, so why is it now we suddenly don't have an answer for them?

Again I say, the transfers would have helped but a lack of them shouldn't have caused the utter regression we've seen so far.

Things are getting stale,we won a league last year playing the same way.That won't happen again.There's a lack of serious competition for places and certain players know that and just aren't performing,look how Valencia was suddenly able to run past a couple of players after being on the bench yesterday.The "We're Manchester United,we do what we want" mentality just isn't enough these days,the players have to perform to earn the right to make that claim.

Even the Barca manager was complaining of the same thing last night & they won 4-1.

marvsins

Angelo Henriquez scored 2 goals for Zaragoza away to Mallorca still 10min left. All guys gone out on loan are filling their boots so far, good to see.

homerjay2005

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It's certainly an aspect of the problem we're facing right now, but it's only one part.

not sure anybody is saying this at all, i think people are clearly aware we have more than one problem, but at the same time, we could have made things easier with 2 proper world class signings in the summer. theres 5 or 6 things wrong right now -

poor form of key players.
some players being found finally like Young and dare i say it, Valencia and Welbeck.
poor team selections.
poor tactics.
lack of creativity through our entire midfield.
a manager perhaps out of his depth or not exactly able to cope with the demands of managing such a big club.
lack of quality players due to 4 or 5 years of neglect from Fergie/Gill and then Moyes/Gill just making it worse.

at least Fergie put his trust in players like scholes, park, anderson, fletcher and perhaps his loyalty to these players was the reason he believed our CM did not need investment....Moyes knew it was a gaping hole, idenfied players, but then failed in signing them.

Cantona's Collars

BTW, Benzema is available in January according to the media in UK. We need back up in that dept also as Wellbeck is hardly a 20 a season player.

With so little goals from the wings or cm,we are heavily reliant on our front 2,we'll be really in the sh1t if we lose one or God forbid both to injury.

Paul Tergat

zerks wrote: »

BTW, Benzema is available in January according to the media in UK. We need back up in that dept also as Wellbeck is hardly a 20 a season player.

With so little goals from the wings or cm,we are heavily reliant on our front 2,we'll be really in the sh1t if we lose one or God forbid both to injury.

He would be going somewhere where he is guaranteed to start

marvsins

Paul Tergat wrote: »

He would be going somewhere where he is guaranteed to start

Ya, genuinely can't see Benzema starting at utd.

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

hang on, hang on. they could have had 4 goals in the first half, doesnt matter if they came from mistakes, they pressured United into them and their first goal was from some good play.

the goal
the last ditch tackle from Jones with 2 men free and Gardiner should have passed it earlier.
the header/save.
the chance right on half time that he put over from 9 yards out.

those 4 chances were almost exactly similar to the 4 goals that City got....we were the better team, but they had the better chances in the first half and against a team who were much better than Sunderland, we could have been at least 2-0 down at half time.

for the amount of possession we have, our creativity this season has been appalling, the worst ive ever seen from us. the thing is, everybody knew this would happen as we didnt do anything to address it during the transfer window and for that Moyes needs to accept his share of the blame.

i assume he expects to sign players in January....i can see Baines finally coming in, but apart from him, which top class, world class players would honestly want to play for us right now? our chance was during the Summer and Moyes and Woodward made a mess of it.

Good that you quoted the post to make it look like ridiculous when I have said as much about their chances. Also Jones last ditch tackle is not a chance.

At least quote the post in full where I have explained or don't bother at all.

The_Kew_Tour

I would be interested to see the chances created in the first 7 fixtures compared to same last season.

I dont think it would be huge difference some might think.

Now you can call me a bat if you like, but there were times under Fergie the last few seasons that when we went goal down we created nothing to get back into the game. I always felt we get back in game yesterday, under Fergie at times I was unsure.

We seem to be in the final third as much as I have seen past couple of years the difference seems to be just lack of confidence at minute and organisation is bit sloppy when we lose the ball.

Rayne Wooney

What's the fascination with Baines, he's not going to change the way the team plays, some better crosses but we've seen where they've got us this season with 3 goals from open play in 7 games.

It's so easy to defend against United, you just pressure them out wide then pack the box to clear the crosses, any decent defence will do that all day. That kind of play has been clearly getting stale the past two seasons

dahat

marvsins wrote: »

Angelo Henriquez scored 2 goals for Zaragoza away to Mallorca still 10min left. All guys gone out on loan are filling their boots so far, good to see.

Makes a change that we got loans right for once.A ll these lads wil come back next season brimming with confidence

Paul Tergat

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would be interested to see the chances created in the first 7 fixtures compared to same last season.

I dont think it would be huge difference some might think.

Now you can call me a bat if you like, but there were times under Fergie the last few seasons that when we went goal down we created nothing to get back into the game. I always felt we get back in game yesterday, under Fergie at times I was unsure.

We seem to be in the final third as much as I have seen past couple of years the difference seems to be just lack of confidence at minute and organisation is bit sloppy when we lose the ball.

It was very rare that under Fergie I felt we wouldnt get back into a game when behind. At home it was such a rarity. The WBA match this season is one I felt we were defeated when they got their second goal. There was no onslaught that we would have had under Fergie

homerjay2005

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

What's the fascination with Baines, he's not going to change the way the team plays, some better crosses but we've seen where they've got us this season with 3 goals from open play in 7 games.

It's so easy to defend against United, you just pressure them out wide then pack the box to clear the crosses, any decent defence will do that all day. That kind of play has been clearly getting stale the past two seasons

our crossing quality is abysmal so far this season. we are getting too wide and at wrong angles and they are easy to defend as to get them into the box, they are being just lofted in with no pace. Palace was something like 43 crosses, 5 successful and even most of those 5 were barely got on the end of or werent goal scoring chances. its like players just panic when they get the ball about 40 yards from go and just hit and hope by swinging it into the box.

sure enough, the first ball that was wipped in with pace led to the first goal and the second goal while not exactly a great cross, was still not defended properly.

Nani was double marked yesterday and they tried the same with Janz, but at least Evra was constantly getting forward and this freed up some room to play.

but we are so one dimensional its scary, we need to try a formation that involves playing through the middle and one that includes a creative element like Kagawa who so far, has been very poor.

i think we all agreed at the time when ozil was available that we didnt need him unless Rooney was sold and even then, Kagawa still needed game time, but now with Kagawa being so poor, Ozil would have improved us dramatically.

The_Kew_Tour

I thought Rafael had very good game yesterday from attacking point of view.

Getting better and better imo.

Paul Tergat

homerjay2005 wrote: »

our crossing quality is abysmal so far this season. we are getting too wide and at wrong angles and they are easy to defend as to get them into the box, they are being just lofted in with no pace. Palace was something like 43 crosses, 5 successful and even most of those 5 were barely got on the end of or werent goal scoring chances. its like players just panic when they get the ball about 40 yards from go and just hit and hope by swinging it into the box.

sure enough, the first ball that was wipped in with pace led to the first goal and the second goal while not exactly a great cross, was still not defended properly.

Nani was double marked yesterday and they tried the same with Janz, but at least Evra was constantly getting forward and this freed up some room to play.

but we are so one dimensional its scary, we need to try a formation that involves playing through the middle and one that includes a creative element like Kagawa who so far, has been very poor.

i think we all agreed at the time when ozil was available that we didnt need him unless Rooney was sold and even then, Kagawa still needed game time, but now with Kagawa being so poor, Ozil would have improved us dramatically.

Interesting this one. I want to see how we get on moving away from 4-4-2 and playing without wingers. We can get width from our full backs and it would allow us to play 3 midfielders so we can be better in the middle of the pitch battle. We can get more possession, have better control of games and play Rooney and Kagawa off RVP. I really want to see this tried as I think particularly in Europe, 4-4-2 is an aged formation.

Rayne Wooney

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would be interested to see the chances created in the first 7 fixtures compared to same last season.

I dont think it would be huge difference some might think.

Now you can call me a bat if you like, but there were times under Fergie the last few seasons that when we went goal down we created nothing to get back into the game. I always felt we get back in game yesterday, under Fergie at times I was unsure.

We seem to be in the final third as much as I have seen past couple of years the difference seems to be just lack of confidence at minute and organisation is bit sloppy when we lose the ball.

*Green line is last season 2012/2013
*Red line is this season 2013/2014

We scored 17 goals compared to 10 so far this season with the same amount conceded.

tallaghtmick

Ive said it for years 442 is finished, I got ridiculed last year on here for saying it too.

The_Kew_Tour

Cheers for that Rayne.

Thought it would be little closer although tougher run of games makes it little better.

Still thought be closer. me bad.

The_Kew_Tour

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ive said it for years 442 is finished, I got ridiculed last year on here for saying it too.

You see managers can call certain formations what they like now. For example 4-5-1 can be seen as 4-3-3 etc.

I agree though that 4-4-2 really is not way forward well especially in big games anyway.

Paul Tergat

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Ive said it for years 442 is finished, I got ridiculed last year on here for saying it too.

In certain matches it can still work. Games where teams say will come to OT and look to keep it compact and defend. We then need to stretch them out wider to allow more room in the centre.