Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

bucketybuck

In my opinion Fergie should have given Hernandez much more gametime last season than he did. The guy is a lethal goalscorer, we should be making more use of him. And no, we still didn't need Van Persie when we bought him.

However the situation is what it is, and perhaps we should be thinking in terms of Hernandez as a very saleable asset. Moyes will want to bring in players (I would hope), and Chico might be the one player who we could sell in the tens of millions. Damn sure nobody is paying much for the likes of Young or Anderson.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

RVP is 30 or 31 and his game is not based on speed. IMO he will age well and remains the same player. I'm not sure Hernandez will be happy with bench role for another 2-3 years as he is not youngster anymore.

Yeah, I don't think RvP will finish up in time for Chico, pity. I'd rather have stuck with Chico and Kagawa getting more game time than buying RvP myself. Think we would have been better off.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, I don't think RvP will finish up in time for Chico, pity. I'd rather have stuck with Chico and Kagawa getting more game time than buying RvP myself. Think we would have been better off.

Not sure about that, I mean yeah buying a CM would have made us stronger but can't argue that RVP scored many important goals and one of the main reason why we won the league.

It's a double edge sword, one side we got a world class striker who won many games with brilliant goals and on the other side we might lose 2 quality players because of the game time.

homerjay2005

Moral in the squad seems to be really low at the moment, it could be as big a reason as any as to why our season is going so poor.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, I don't think RvP will finish up in time for Chico, pity. I'd rather have stuck with Chico and Kagawa getting more game time than buying RvP myself. Think we would have been better off.

Agree, overall I think the team would benefit long term, but it is clear now that Fergie was not thinking long term anymore and wanted to win the league one more time and have a good blast at Europe before he left so its understandable that he went for RVP.

macslash

VW 1 wrote: »

He makes a valid point, Chico would be banging in goals as our first choice striker or as a partner to Rooney if RVP hadn't been bought, however RVPs quality was so great that a chance to sign him couldn't be refused.

Ya fair enough. I'm on teaching practice atm and got an inspection this morn so I've been a bit off!

I feel for Hernandez. My first game at OT was the chelsea game when he scored inside the 1st minute. I was behind the goal. Will never forget it! Or him signing autographs and posing for pics the day before the game outside OT. I would be gutted if he left, but as has been said before I would not blame him if that is what he wants.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Not sure about that, I mean yeah buying a CM would have made us stronger but can't argue that RVP scored many important goals and one of the main reason why we won the league.

It's a double edge sword, one side we got a world class striker who won many games with brilliant goals and on the other side we might lose 2 quality players because of the game time.

There's a reasonable case to be made on both sides of the argument anyway.

kryogen wrote: »

Agree, overall I think the team would benefit long term, but it is clear now that Fergie was not thinking long term anymore and wanted to win the league one more time and have a good blast at Europe before he left so its understandable that he went for RVP.

Tbf to Fergie he always had a tendency to go mental on buying strikers. He might have done that even if it wasn't his last season. We'll never no for sure.

NTMK

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Moral in the squad seems to be really low at the moment, it could be as big a reason as any as to why our season is going so poor.

probably it was **** when fergie announced his retirement the first time. it also doesnt help that the players have to adjust to new training systems and tactics

homerjay2005

NTMK wrote: »

probably it was **** when fergie announced his retirement the first time. it also doesnt help that the players have to adjust to new training systems and tactics

the problems are alot deeper than systems and tactics IMO.....theres lots of things not right at the moment.

How Soon Is Now

Your Airbag wrote: »

Another young Belgian winger is on our radar

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/07/football-transfer-rumours-zakaria-bakkali

If going by Fifa means anything hes gonna be and is amazing :pac:

IamtheWalrus

kryogen wrote: »

Fergie was not thinking long term anymore and wanted to win the league one more time and have a good blast at Europe before he left

Disagree. SAF always had the club's best interests at heart. RVP came available, the league's best player that time, and went for him.

master-t

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the problems are alot deeper than systems and tactics IMO.....theres lots of things not right at the moment.

Like what?

Your Airbag

I don't know why people have the "was buying RVP a good move?" discussion anymore.

The answer is yes. Yes it was. This post is not directed at anyone in particular btw

RVP was a good buy, there is no doubt it was a smart move. The problem is when people decide to look at as a CMF over RVP. Fergie bought wingers and AMF's before RVP but just didn't go for a CMF player. For some reason he was happy with what he had in that area or he thought there was no value in the market. UTD could have bought both types of players if Fergie wanted it bad enough and I don't buy that argument it was a striker or a MF.

Now we have the RVP and Chico argument.. There is no doubt RVP has less years to give UTD. There is also no doubt RVP is the better player. I feel bad when Chico doesn't get playing time but I also feel there is enough room for rotation to keep him happy until he can be used more than RVP.

When you take RVP's goals and attitude into account and the price we got him for it was great business. Its a shame RVP keeps Chico out and its the same for Rooney vs Kagawa.

Sure there are many formations and ways of working them all in but if you asked me to straight up pick between them for a big match, I go with RVP over Chico and Rooney over Kagawa.

People also said to get rid of Rooney over the summer and we didn't need him as we had RVP and Chico. I think its quite obvious now we do and not only that but its clear he is better than RVP and our best player. He has some much more to his game.

Mars Bar

What about loaning Hernandez out for a season or two if he wants to leave?

Adamcp898

Mars Bar wrote: »

What about loaning Hernandez out for a season or two if he wants to leave?

He's at an age and point in his career though where he probably wouldn't want to go out on loan though? I'd imagine most at his age would see it as a bit of a step backwards.

J. Marston

MagicMarker wrote: »

His game outside the box is no longer average, it's actually very good, he's shown that every time he's played recently.

If we're actually talking about strikers, then I would have him ahead of Welbeck. Welbeck isn't played ahead of Hernandez because he's a better striker, because he's not, he plays ahead of him because he's a better winger.

Definitely. That may not have been the right pass but it's a huge leap from where he was when he originally joined United.

secman

J. Marston wrote: »

Definitely. That may not have been the right pass but it's a huge leap from where he was when he originally joined United.

Wrong ball though, should have rolled it down the middle ....just saying

secman

Rayne Wooney

Yeah the RVP debate is just redundant, in an ideal world if we hadn't have bought him we would have bought Vidal or someone and had Kagawa and Chico playing week in week out, I think this would have been better off in the long run as all RVP did was cover the cracks almost single handedly.. but that's not how United operate, I don't think we would have bought a CM anyway.

I'd hate to see Hernandez go but I'm sure everyone at the club understands his reasons, he's way too good to warm the bench, everyone will wish him well if he goes.

Backstreet Moyes

I have to say the best football i remember us playing in recent years was in 10/11 was it when we lost to Barca. Rooney and Hernandez created a really good partnership and were linking up great and playing great football. That partnership imo was stronger than the partnership Rooney has had with RVP which is a pity.

Oregano_State

J. Marston wrote: »

Definitely. That may not have been the right pass but it's a huge leap from where he was when he originally joined United.

secman wrote: »

Wrong ball though, should have rolled it down the middle ....just saying

secman

At least read what the man's saying before you criticise.

Backstreet Moyes

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yeah the RVP debate is just redundant, in an ideal world if we hadn't have bought him we would have bought Vidal or someone and had Kagawa and Chico playing week in week out, I think this would have been better off in the long run as all RVP did was cover the cracks almost single handedly.. but that's not how United operate, I don't think we would have bought a CM anyway.

I'd hate to see Hernandez go but I'm sure everyone at the club understands his reasons, he's way too good to warm the bench, everyone will wish him well if he goes.

RVP did not cover the cracks. We would have been better off signing a world class midfielder than RVP. If he wasn't signed Rooney would have scored the goals. Rooney scored 27 goals the season before compared to RVP's 26 last season. I love RVP a great signing but the team would have been better off if somebody like Vidal was signed.

superfurry1

Rvp didnt cover the cracks? RVP was a master plasterer last year for us:P

DM_7

It never had to be RVP or a midfielder anyway. Could have bought both.

Giggsy11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yeah the RVP debate is just redundant, in an ideal world if we hadn't have bought him we would have bought Vidal or someone and had Kagawa and Chico playing week in week out, I think this would have been better off in the long run as all RVP did was cover the cracks almost single handedly.. but that's not how United operate, I don't think we would have bought a CM anyway.

I'd hate to see Hernandez go but I'm sure everyone at the club understands his reasons, he's way too good to warm the bench, everyone will wish him well if he goes.

In which ideal world we had the chance to sign Vidal last season? Juve wouldn't have sold him at all. Only chance we had was before he signed for Juve and after that no way.

Pro. F

Even disregarding the argument of how the RvP money could have been better spent on a CM (because we all know that the club could have bought both), I still think the best course of action would have been to give Kagawa and Chico a better chance and pass on RvP.

Rayne Wooney

Giggsy11 wrote: »

In which ideal world we had the chance to sign Vidal last season? Juve wouldn't have sold him at all. Only chance we had was before he signed for Juve and after that no way.

You've answered your own question, an ideal world doesn't exist

DM_7

In isolation, one of Hernandez and Rooney, Kagawa and Rooney, Kagawa and Hernandez or RVP and Rooney.

The last one is and was the best for United IMO.

I can see positives to other options but RVP was as close to a sure thing as could ever realistically be signed while Kagawa was a player coming in from another country and may not have settled. When the chance to sign RVP came along it had to be done (City were in for him as well) even though Kagawa was already bought.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Even disregarding the argument of how the RvP money could have been better spent on a CM (because we all know that the club could have bought both), I still think the best course of action would have been to give Kagawa and Chico a better chance and pass on RvP.

Which would probably have resulted in City buying RVP and them winning the league

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

Which would probably have resulted in City buying RVP and them winning the league

There's always some player that we supposedly have to buy. It's nonsense. The difference between United and City last year was not RvP.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

There's always some player that we supposedly have to buy. It's nonsense. The difference between United and City last year was not RvP.

Well we would certainly not have won the league without RVP, and as far as I understand he was going to either us or City. If he went to City they would have won the league.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

Well we would certainly not have won the league without RVP, and as far as I understand he was going to either us or City. If he went to City they would have won the league.

It's nothing like a certainty that United wouldn't have won the league without RvP. Rooney scored one league goal more than him the previous season and Chico has an excellent scoring record.

Dublin Red Devil

What is the probability of Adnan doing a Pogba and baling out on us for a better financial offer?

mewe

Pro. F wrote: »

There's always some player that we supposedly have to buy. It's nonsense. The difference between United and City last year was not RvP.

Psychology is huge in sport though and us gettin RVP gave the whole team a lift i would say and maybe could have done the same for City had they won the battle to sign him.

Pro. F

mewe wrote: »

Psychology is huge in sport though and us gettin RVP gave the whole team a lift i would say and maybe could have done the same for City had they won the battle to sign him.

There would also be the positive psychological benefits of rewarding Chicharito for his excellent play up to that point with regular starts and not screwing over Kagawa, one of the best ACMs in the world, by playing him on the wing.

City have had heaps of high quality players brought in over recent years, I don't see why bringing in another would have overly impressed that squad.

Mitch Connor

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

What is the probability of Adnan doing a Pogba and baling out on us for a better financial offer?

Not impossible, but I genuinely think we will get this one done. Don't think the same issues exist here as the pogba situation.

onemorechance

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

What is the probability of Adnan doing a Pogba and baling out on us for a better financial offer?

P(A and = P(A) · P(B)

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

Well we would certainly not have won the league without RVP

Yes we would have.

Nalz

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes we would have.

I doubt it tbf

bucketybuck

Trilla wrote: »

I doubt it tbf

Each to their own, but for myself I don't doubt it at all.

mewe

Pro. F wrote: »

There would also be the positive psychological benefits of rewarding Chicharito for his excellent play up to that point with regular starts and not screwing over Kagawa, one of the best ACMs in the world, by playing him on the wing.

City have had heaps of high quality players brought in over recent years, I don't see why bringing in another would have overly impressed that squad.

Your second point may be true. On the first one,in the long term it might have benefited the team but when we're talkin about last season, signin RVP would have made more of an impact on the players confidence than playin Chicarito and Kagawa. We were going into the new season having signed a player a lot of people thought we never would be able to and i'm sure the players were buzzin at the prospect of playin with him and would have felt we were a more formidable force.

Rayne Wooney

If we hadn't got RVP, City would have and they would have won the league IMO

RVP's goals were vital and the times he scored them, City, Liverpool and Chelsea games come to mind.

Paul Tergat

Who gives a shít

We have RVP, we won the league, fúck City.

Rayne Wooney

Sad but true


Need to get to work for the Southampton game, it won't be easy, tougher than West Brom and Sunderland.

F.J.

Story on back page of papers is Rooney saying he wanted to leave because he was played out position/Ferguson mistreated him

sReq | uTeK

Robson99 wrote: »

Well we would certainly not have won the league without RVP, and as far as I understand he was going to either us or City. If he went to City they would have won the league.

Hi mystic meg, nonsense absolute nonsense. Suarez gets banned for Liverpool, omg where will the goals come from, oh that's right Sturridge steps up.

Berba top scorer for united 2 seasons in a row, out of favour, wow where will the goals come from, okay let'is play Rooney up top? No problem 35+ goals.

If we didn't buy RVP have no doubt the goals would have come somewhere else they always do. stating RVP won us the league is complete dross, stating he would have won it for our rivals is complete dross as well, One thing city have in abundance is goal scores all over the pitch, they didn't lose the league from missing chances, they lost the league by dropping points to mid table teams,

homerjay2005

F.J. wrote: »

Story on back page of papers is Rooney saying he wanted to leave because he was played out position/Ferguson mistreated him

full details here -

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/09/wayne-rooney-reasons-leave-manchester-united

nothing that we didnt know to be honest as regards, his problem was with Fergie. im sure its the same for Nani also.

Backstreet Moyes

Carrick's form all season and Vidic from Christmas on were far more important than RVP for winning us the league. Vidic and Ferdinand tightened up the defence and Carrick bailed out a very poor midfield. If RVP wasn't their Rooney and Hernandez would have scored the goals needed.

Headshot

I'd be very surprised if Rooney stays at utd for the rest of his career. Infact I'd go as far to say I don't see him staying for 3 more seasons

F.J.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8275056/Manchester-United-star-Wayne-Rooney-happy-in-midfield-role

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/wayne-rooney-exclusive-on-why-he-might-play-1306356

An article on Sky from November last year on Rooney talking about midfield and an extract from his autobiography.
Didn't take him long to change his tune

onemorechance

F.J. wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/8275056/Manchester-United-star-Wayne-Rooney-happy-in-midfield-role

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/wayne-rooney-exclusive-on-why-he-might-play-1306356

An article on Sky from November last year on Rooney talking about midfield and an extract from his autobiography.
Didn't take him long to change his tune

"I even think about playing there permanently, but only later in my career."