Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Lord TSC

Hernandez and Kagawa must be wondering what the hell they have to do, and how bad others have to play, before they even get a few minutes as a sub in a game.

I just worry that they'll be offloaded before things change....and something needs to change somewhere. Not saying "Moyes Out!" but there needs to be a drastic ****ing change in his philosophy, and the change was needed weeks ago...

kona

J. Marston wrote: »

I wonder if he'll moan about the fixture list again.

4 points from West Brom (H), Sunderland (A) and Southampton (H).

just about 4 points, got out of jail V sunderland.

Cantona's Collars

Story of our season,play ok in patches but overall nothing to cheer about.Nani was doing ok & he was subbed.Took off Rooney who looked most likely to create something.Wellbeck looked like a drunk Bambi on ice when he came on-if anybody says "but he holds the ball up and links up play" to me I'll hit them.He's the only striker I know who seems to get a free pass despite not scoring goals which is his job.
I don't know what to make of the subs at all,clinging onto a lead against Southampton Yes they are on a decent run & playing well but they're no Bayern Munich.

Mikeyt086

The players are to blame. They can't defend a ****ing corner. We clear that corner and everyone is talking about what a good result it was.

OctavarIan

Ordinary man wrote: »

Moyes isn't making it easy to give him full confidence. As many have said the subs were shockingly defensive. He seems to be so worried about defending a lead that his subs just invite the opposition to pin them back. I could understand giggs for fellaini(considering there are no other options for midfield) but having genuine game changers like hernandez and kagawa on the bench and refusing to use them is just stupid

I feel the same way. Will always be behind the team but finding it harder and harder to be behind Moyes. Very unassertive, overcautious and negative, all at Old Trafford against a team who were struggling to create chances. Southampton were pressing and nipping, catching out the slower players, so he brings on Giggs and Smalling. Strange.

J. Marston

Here's another great stat, 1 win in 4 home league games.

Your Airbag

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

No seriously its becoming a joke he is clearly out of his depth as a manager at this level.

Hes making changes to the team that make no bloody sense at all.

You cant tell anything about him until he gets a season. I agree his substitutions were poor but he does not need to be sacked. (A) Because he needs time, which we all knew, and we are yet to see can he turn it around. (B) We are not a Chelsea or Man City revolving door club and nor would I want us to be. It can unsettle players too.

Dicky Pride wrote: »

I've been saying it since the moment he was hired.

Even more embarrassing. You wanted him gone before he even statred.

Headshot

Imagine the league title is already over in October and we are fighting for CL qualification. We have turned into Arsenal. Im not sure to laugh or cry

Lord TSC

I swear, if someone starts a "We can't be like Chelsea" debate, I'll swing at them...

EDIT: Too late...really hate that arguement

How Soon Is Now

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

The players are to blame. They can't defend a ****ing corner. We clear that corner and everyone is talking about what a good result it was.

We brought the pressure on us by making stupid subs. You could see it all happening as soon as he took off Nani that was more or less a clear message ya where done lets hold out for a 1-0.


Jesus we could of had at least 3 or 4 today and should of won that game comfortably not let them back into the game.

Rayne Wooney

Tactics are getting a lot more sophisticated, successful teams generally have a manager who can adapt and change at a moments notice.

Is Moyes capable of that?

It looked like Pochettino had Moyes' number today with inferior players, do we give Pochettino a shot at the job?

mike65

Welcome to your Roy Hodgson period. Sometimes you just know in a very deep way that a manager is not going to know how to steer a club that is above his pay grade. Just as Hodgson (with an inferior squad) quite wilfully, knowingly reduced Liverpools style of play to the bare bones of defend then hit and hope. It didn't even work on those terms as the players reacted against the whole attitude being put forward by Hodgson.

Moyes is likewise reducing Manchester Utd, looking to make the side "solid" so completely missing what makes Utd strong and winners. You take control of the game and force the opposition to adapt/cope, not the other way round.

Everton was his ceiling and of course the joke is that they are arguably flourishing all the better with Martinez.

jaykay74

1/ I had no idea at the time why Moyes was appointed
2/ Still have no idea today based on his few months in charge.
3/ To keep me on board he needs 4th minimum this season.

ronjo

Headshot wrote: »

Imagine the league title is already over in October and we are fighting for CL qualification. We have turned into Arsenal. Im not sure to laugh or cry

Check out the table

OctavarIan

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

The players are to blame. They can't defend a ****ing corner. We clear that corner and everyone is talking about what a good result it was.

This too, the lack of confidence/form seems to be infecting the whole team. Not sure if it's the negative/static tactics or something else.

Headshot

Your Airbag wrote: »

You cant tell anything about him until he gets a season. I agree his substitutions were poor but he does not need to be sacked. (A) Because he needs time, which we all knew, and we are yet to see can he turn it around. (B) We are not a Chelsea or Man City revolving door club and nor would I want us to be. It can unsettle players too.




Even more embarrassing. You wanted him gone before he even statred.

Not embarrassing at all. I never wanted him near my club. Why should a manager that done **** all in his career get one of the biggest jobs in soccer?

PhlegmyMoses

Headshot wrote: »

You know I thought Southampton were the home team today, it was that bad. They really deserve to draw the match but its embarrassing, utd PL champions going negative against Southampton, come on

Southampton created nothing. Moyes only has himself to blame. Set us up well until 70 minutes, then we sat back deeper when he started to make negative substitutions. We can be simplistic and say that if we defend that corner we get a good result, but a bit of positivity in the susbtituations and we could have been going for the kill, rather than hanging on.

Nolars

Headshot wrote: »

Not embarrassing at all. I never wanted him near my club. Why should a manager that done **** all in his career get one of the biggest jobs in soccer?

Because Fergie made the decision and that should never have happened.

Your Airbag

Headshot wrote: »

Imagine the league title is already over in October and we are fighting for CL qualification. We have turned into Arsenal. Im not sure to laugh or cry

We are 8 points off top and four off 4th place. Fighting for a UCL spot? What rubbish.

The knee jerk fans really show them selves up. The word spoilt springs to mind.

How Soon Is Now

Your Airbag wrote: »

You cant tell anything about him until he gets a season. I agree his substitutions were poor but he does not need to be sacked. (A) Because he needs time, which we all knew, and we are yet to see can he turn it around. (B) We are not a Chelsea or Man City revolving door club and nor would I want us to be. It can unsettle players too.




Even more embarrassing. You wanted him gone before he even statred.

I swear at start the season i told myself ok i hope he does well maybe he will be what the club needs some fresh ideas etc.

He actually started to show this could be possible in pre season.

But he has gone backwards and is even worse then Fergie was for making stupid stubborn choices.

How is any fan at this club meant to have faith in a manager when he takes a premier league winning team and slowing but surely pushs them back!.

He makes the most stupid choices and shuts up shop in games when we should be killing the other team off. Its cost us against West Brom and now again today.

Really u cant blame anyone else. There are players at that club that could change games bring some energy to the team when its needed but hes ignoring them and at this stage its as if hes doing it just to say **** yous ill do it my way u either like it or lump it!.

I just dont understand the sense in not playing Kagawa Hernandez or even Zaha.

ricero

busby will be doing somersaults in his grave after what Moyes is doing to his club.

Quandary

If nothing else can be taken from that match it's that Nani is light years ahead of Valencia and young.

Januzaj was very impressive for the most part.

Rooney was terrible today. His first touch looked like that of a league of ireland player. RVP was marked out of the game.

Fellaini was poor but at the very least he can defend set pieces and corners. He shouldn't have been taken off.

Evra was also very poor.

We were dominated for long periods of the game in our own back yard by Southampton. That is hugely depressing. I'm not calling for Moyes to be sacked after only 10 or 12 games into the season but it is starting to get very very worrying.

RasTa

30 games left + cups. He gets the season and then I'll pass judgement. No point in doing anything now.

Thought Rooney was really awful today. Kagawa as 10 midweek please.

His post match out?

Headshot

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Southampton created nothing. Moyes only has himself to blame. Set us up well until 70 minutes, then we sat back deeper when he started to make negative substitutions. We can be simplistic and say that if we defend that corner we get a good result, but a bit of positivity in the susbtituations and we could have been going for the kill, rather than hanging on.

Southampton were the much better team in CM. They just lacked that creativity but made up for it by closing our team down quicker and basically bullying our CM. Doesnt help that Fell cant pass the ball to save his life. You were right that they didnt Trouble De Gea but I always felt that they looked dangerous.

Fair enough 3 points is all that matters but if we got those 3 points, it would still be overshadowed by how bloody awful we are.

Your Airbag

mike65 wrote: »

Welcome to your Roy Hodgson period. Sometimes you just know in a very deep way that a manager is not going to know how to steer a club that is above his pay grade. Just as Hodgson (with an inferior squad) quite wilfully, knowingly reduced Liverpools style of play to the bare bones of defend then hit and hope. It didn't even work on those terms as the players reacted against the whole attitude being put forward by Hodgson.

The big difference between Hodgson and Moyes is that Hodgson took a slightly above midtable club who could not win a EPL to save their lives and turned them into a slightly above midtable club who could not win a EPL to save their lives.

Robson99

Everyone is critising Welbeck but WTF did Rooney do today?

ronjo

ricero wrote: »

busby will be doing somersaults in his grave after what Moyes is doing to his club.

Sweet jesus!!!

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Tactics are getting a lot more sophisticated, successful teams generally have a manager who can adapt and change at a moments notice.

Is Moyes capable of that?

It looked like Pochettino had Moyes' number today with inferior players, do we give Pochettino a shot at the job?

Read an article about him & Southampton,his philosophy runs right through the club and they are profiting from it.

Moyes seems to have failed to grasp the idea he's at United & not Everton.No offence to Everton but 6th place was an achievement for them,for United not being Champions was a slight against them.
We expect better.

4-4-2 is rapidly becoming old hat and new systems are taking over.The system was so rigid today it defied belief.January can't come quick enough to sort out some of the stuff at the club.
I've so far refused to criticise Moyes but that day is coming.

Lord TSC

The idea of "giving him time" was that if we slipped from "Champions" to "Top 4" club, we would be able to accept it. There would be transition, there would be new tactics, there would be new styles of play. When a new manager is appointed, we expect bumps.

Moyes isn't hitting bumps. He's driving us off a cliff. 11 points in 8 games is a disaster, not a "transition".

There seems such a fear of being seen by fans as "Acting like Chelsea" that...

1. It seems to mean some fans would rather see the club tank than give some ammo to other fans...missing the ammo is being given far more plentifully by the way Moyes is taking United.

2. Those teams dont get mocked for sacking managers in over their heads; they get mocked cause successful managers who are doing well are sacked cause they are in 2nd rather than 1st.

There's a big difference between Chelsea sacking managers and the position United are in right now with Moyes.

Right now, I have zero confidence in Moyes, based on negative tactics and substitutions. Worse, I fear that we'll "give him time" which he'll use to sell good players, lose us CL football and send us rocketing down the table.

Don't tell me to be patient. Don't tell me to give him time. GIVE ME A REASON TO TRUST MOYES! Tell me why time will change Moyes tactics when losing hasn't been so far? Tell me why time will change poor sub decisions? Give me more than a "He needs time" quote cause right now, the problems I'm seeing aren't ones that will come good in time...they are ones that will seriously damage us the longer the time is spent...

ankles

I supported Moyes's appointment and felt he was tactically astute and would keep United's style while also helping to rebuild midfield amongst other issues. But tactically he has been awful. The message his tactics sent out to the players today, especially those substitutions,was " we're lucky to be 1-0 up, let's try and hang on". I am sure the players themselves felt their heads drop as Nani etc. were replaced by Giggs, Jones etc. As the game opened up it cried out for Kagawa or Hernandez to come on and play in the space. Instead Moyes was more concerned with crowding the area in front of our 18 yard box and bringing on a "holding" centre forward. He can't expect to perform at Top of the league level if he continues these miserable defensive minded lacking in confidence (his own) tactics. And the senior players,; Rooney, RvP etc. will soon get sick of this. And then we'll have a real problem.

The clock is ticking.

edgecutter

Your Airbag wrote: »

We are 8 points off top and four off 4th place. Fighting for a UCL spot? What rubbish.

The knee jerk fans really show them selves up. The word spoilt springs to mind.

It is bad at this moment regardless of what others are doing points wise. We look awful at the moment, we can't win games at home, sunderland(the worst team in the league) pushed us hard for three points and we are relying on an 18 year old, with a back up plan that requires a 40 year old to come on. it's as bad as it gets.

IvySlayer

Not asking for Moyes to have Utd playing like 1999/2008, just get the basics right

castletownman

I'm not one to jump to conclusions and call for a manager's head so early in a tenure, but the thing that is really annoying me the most about Moyes is his demenour and attitude towards the media. Constantly bemoaning and disrespectful*. Sign of a weak man.

*Yes Fergie had his fair share of spats with the media too but at least he had the CV and trophy collection to back it up.

Red Crow

Simply not good enough.

rob316

He is not the manager for ye simply as. The shoes he had to fill would be tough for any manager but to follow ferguson is just way out of this man's depth. I said he would be exposed at united and so far Im right. His away record in 11 years against Liverpool, United,Chelsea and Arsenal could tell you enough about his pedigree.

I hate this sacking managers constantly unless it really isnt working and shows no signs of improvment e.g Hodgson at Liverpool. So I do hope he is given time.

Make no mistake Glazers are money men and they wont think twice of protecting there investment. Its like any business, if the management is underperforming you just replace them. Cant see the Glazers sitting out of the CL for one season and loosing 40/50 million.

Cantona's Collars

Robson99 wrote: »

Everyone is criticising Welbeck but WTF did Rooney do today?

More than Wellbeck,at times it was just bad luck that his interplay with RVP didn't come to something,he wasn't great but by Jesus,Wellbeck looked like he'd been brought from The Bishops Blaize to play today.

Your Airbag

ricero wrote: »

busby will be doing somersaults in his grave after what Moyes is doing to his club.

Worst post of the day. Step away form the laptop. Jesus H Christ

How Soon Is Now

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The idea of "giving him time" was that if we slipped from "Champions" to "Top 4" club, we would be able to accept it. There would be transition, there would be new tactics, there would be new styles of play. When a new manager is appointed, we expect bumps.

Moyes isn't hitting bumps. He's driving us off a cliff. 11 points in 8 games is a disaster, not a "transition".

There seems such a fear of being seen by fans as "Acting like Chelsea" that...

1. It seems to mean some fans would rather see the club tank than give some ammo to other fans...missing the ammo is being given far more plentifully by the way Moyes is taking United.

2. Those teams dont get mocked for sacking managers in over their heads; they get mocked cause successful managers who are doing well are sacked cause they are in 2nd rather than 1st.

There's a big difference between Chelsea sacking managers and the position United are in right now with Moyes.

Right now, I have zero confidence in Moyes, based on negative tactics and substitutions. Worse, I fear that we'll "give him time" which he'll use to sell good players, lose us CL football and send us rocketing down the table.

Don't tell me to be patient. Don't tell me to give him time. GIVE ME A REASON TO TRUST MOYES! Tell me why time will change Moyes tactics when losing hasn't been so far? Tell me why time will change poor sub decisions? Give me more than a "He needs time" quote cause right now, the problems I'm seeing aren't ones that will come good in time...they are ones that will seriously damage us the longer the time is spent...

Thank you!.

irishfeen

I think realistically that might be the league gone from us now, its a massive mountain to climb now. Rooney was terrible and sending on Giggs was beyond a joke. Januzaj did play well which is something.

Iago

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

The players are to blame. They can't defend a ****ing corner. We clear that corner and everyone is talking about what a good result it was.

I don't think so somehow, regardless of what the result was the biggest talking point would have been the substitutions.

They were pointless, and for me it seemed clear that Moyes didn't really know why he was making them. There was no plan behind them at all.

Firstly he decides to take off Nani, who was having a reasonable game. Ok, maybe he was tired and Moyes wanted to mix it up, I can get on board with that. So he brings on Zaha or Welbeck to add some fresh legs and ideas on the right hand side....except he didn't, he brought on Giggs.

So he must be moving Adnan to the right and playing Giggs on the left then...except he didn't, he played Giggs on the right hand side of midfield. I can't for the life of me remember a time when Giggs has ever played on the right hand side of a United midfield.

Then he brings off Fellaini and puts on Welbeck, moves Giggs back into the middle, Adnan to the right and plays Welbeck on the left. So we make a second change to our middle four, lose a defensive midfielder and put 3 players in our midfield into a position that they don't play naturally.

Of course that works no better than the first change, so let's take off Rooney and put on Smalling and move Jones forward into midfield because without Fellaini there we're being overrun. We've now made three substitutions, changed our midfield 3 times and each time left it in a worse state than it was before our first change was made.

When Moyes was appointed I believed, and I still do, that he has the talent for the job. The problem is that he doesn't believe it and mentally it's too much for him. If he doesn't shift that mentality I can't see him getting past a season or so in the job.

Unearthly

Your Airbag wrote: »

The big difference between Hodgson and Moyes is that Hodgson took a slightly above midtable club who could not win a EPL to save their lives and turned them into a slightly above midtable club who could not win a EPL to save their lives.

He had them in the bottom half of the table barely above relegation.

The comparison is very fair in my opinion

Your Airbag

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The idea of "giving him time" was that if we slipped from "Champions" to "Top 4" club, we would be able to accept it. There would be transition, there would be new tactics, there would be new styles of play. When a new manager is appointed, we expect bumps.

Moyes isn't hitting bumps. He's driving us off a cliff. 11 points in 8 games is a disaster, not a "transition".



Don't tell me to be patient. Don't tell me to give him time. GIVE ME A REASON TO TRUST MOYES! Tell me why time will change Moyes tactics when losing hasn't been so far? Tell me why time will change poor sub decisions? Give me more than a "He needs time" quote cause right now, the problems I'm seeing aren't ones that will come good in time...they are ones that will seriously damage us the longer the time is spent...

Off a cliff. Christ, how over dramatic can you get. Thats bollox.

Why should you trust him? Because he is still learning, still trying to find his best 11 and we have 30 matches left.

If you are asking for a manger to be sacked after 8 games then you are spoilt and impatient. Chelsea and Man City would give a manager more time. Where does it stop if we sack him? what if the next manager doesn't turn it around we sack him too right? then we are a Chelsea and our ethos of stability is gone.

You would have been calling for Fergies head back in his first years too, actually the words years is giving you too much credit, first few months we'll say. Look what happened when we stood by him. Look at Arsenal after sticking by Wenger after 8 years of no trophies.

Its cringe worthy to hear all these fickle impatient spoilt fans spout this crap after a header from a corner in the 89th minute cost us. Grow up. If we won there would have been none of this talk.

tallaghtmick

I'm getting called a fake fan and getting grammar Nazied on facebook due to my views....wow just wow.

Your Airbag

Unearthly wrote: »

He had them in the bottom half of the table barely above relegation.

The comparison is very fair in my opinion

Utd are in 8th. What are you actually on about?

Plus your missing the point and confirming mine. Hodgson took Liverpool from a side who didn't have a chance of winning an EPL title and turned them into a side didn't have a chance of winning an EPL title.

Its not the same thing as UTD just won the title and are still in the hunt for this one.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

I never thought Moyes was the man for United but I still think it's a bit early to be judging him. Fair enough he's been dreadful up until now, but he's often had poor starts at Everton. He'll also (surely?) have SAF advising him and he'll learn from his mistakes. IMO he should still be given until the end of the season, and possibly next season, to see what he can achieve with the squad.

Different times and different expectations but Ferguson too didn't have the best of starts at United. And I know he's drastically underachieving, but United won't be as successful as the were under SAF - with anyone, especially not with how competitive the PL is atm.

Cantona's Collars

The midweek game is going to be fun:(

Teams aren't afraid of us anymore.

Quandary

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I'm getting called a fake fan and getting grammar Nazied on facebook due to my views....wow just wow.

There's your problem. Facebook discussions are the next mongoloid level up from YouTube commenters

titan18

Your Airbag wrote: »

Utd are in 8th. What are you actually on about?

Plus your missing the point and confirming mine. Hodgson took Liverpool from a side who didn't have a chance of winning an EPL title and turned them into a side didn't have a chance of winning an EPL title.

Its not the same thing as UTD just won the title and are still in the hunt for this one.

Last two leagues were won on 89 points, so we need 78 out of 90 left to match last season and the season before. The way we're going atm, I can't see us getting 78 and I'd be amazed if anyone can.

Cantona's Collars

Found in the humour thread,

tallaghtmick

Quandary wrote: »

There's your problem. Facebook discussions are the next mongoloid level up from YouTube commenters

yeh but from lads I know its strange very strange.