Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

lordgoat

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When was Raf meant to be back?

What is story with Evans?

Raf back in training next week according to himself on instagram? Mars can confirm this I think I saw her with it earlier?

The_Kew_Tour

lordgoat wrote: »

Raf back in training next week according to himself on instagram? Mars can confirm this I think I saw her with it earlier?

Be good to have him back asap.

Been missed greatly so far.

allthedoyles

So Utd lodged a bid for Wesley Sneidjer 2 weeks ago ..............rejected

The_Kew_Tour

allthedoyles wrote: »

So Utd lodged a bid for Wesley Sneidjer 2 weeks years ago ..............rejected

FYP..... typo:pac::pac:

Ya I saw that too.. Crazy if true.

GSPfan

Just cant believe that Sneijder thing is true. Don't want to believe it really.

2moreMinutes

Pj! wrote: »

Walcott on Rooney's injury:

'I have seen a picture and it is a very, very big gash. It's not nice to see. It's like something out of a horror film.'

This could fit as a quote from anyone looking at Rooney, ever......

shadowcomplex

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

2moreMinutes

lordgoat wrote: »

Raf back in training next week according to himself on instagram? Mars can confirm this I think I saw her with it earlier?

Be great to have him back. As much as I want to believe in Jones, I just cant at the moment when he's been thrown in here, there & everywhere just to fill a spot.

n32

Looking back on the summer window just gone its hard to believe that we managed to make ourselves look that stupid! deadline day is usually the day when the disorganised rabbles rush through panic buys. According to reports we made bids for coentrao, khedira, ozil, lost herrera and nearly lost fellaini! incredible! fellaini should have been done weeks ago.

it just goes to show how great SAF was. I know there were a lot of summers where he ignored the midfield problem but at least he kept his dealings private . If he had a bid knocked back it was in secret and he was never made to look weak by having his business aired in the media. Moyes and Woodward have made a rod for their own backs if things go badly

Liam O

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

Don't know, I'd have to see 2 lineups with one in each to make an informed decision.

Neeson

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

Perhaps. I think Fellaini is there on a large part because he's Moyes' buddy and to model the shirt.

Rayne Wooney

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

Probably, but no point thinking about what could have been now.

Fellaini is our signing, the players we have now are all we will have until next summer, unless Moyes decides to buy in January. All we can do now is get behind the manager and hope he's strengthened his team enough to be in for a shout next May .

2moreMinutes

n32 wrote: »

Looking back on the summer window just gone its hard to believe that we managed to make ourselves look that stupid! deadline day is usually the day when the disorganised rabbles rush through panic buys. According to reports we made bids for coentrao, khedira, ozil, lost herrera and nearly lost fellaini! incredible! fellaini should have been done weeks ago.

it just goes to show how great SAF was. I know there were a lot of summers where he ignored the midfield problem but at least he kept his dealings private . If he had a bid knocked back it was in secret and he was never made to look weak by having his business aired in the media. Moyes and Woodward have made a rod for their own backs if things go badly

I'm not convinced that SAF kept everything private but rather that the media kept a lot of things quiet when they didn't go our way a la the last few months. Its obviously more newsworthy to continually exaggerate the transfer failings of a new regime than it was to risk the wrath of SAF.

I'm not trying to defend how things have gone in any way but I cant get past the notion that theres an effort to get more papers sold & more online links clicked by being extra tough (for want of a better word) on Moyes/Woodward over the last few weeks. The fact that most of SAF's transfer windows were prior to the social media age & constant rumours & counter-rumours would have also been a major advantage to him.

GSPfan

Surprised none of you have picked up on Moyes comments today saying Fellaini isn't necessarily gonna be in midfield.
He said he can play off the main striker aswell. So Kagawa has even more competition.

tupac_healy

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

I don't think there would have been a whole lot between the two to be honest.

Fellaini will be a success for us if he is used in a holding role IMO.... himself and Carrick sitting with 1 pushing on if needs be and our attacking flair players doing the damage!

2moreMinutes

GSPfan wrote: »

Surprised none of you have picked up on Moyes comments today saying Fellaini isn't necessarily gonna be in midfield.
He said he can play off the main striker aswell. So Kagawa has even more competition.

Would be kinda funny if the first MF we bought in years wasn't even played there.:eek:

Pro. F

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

No, Fellaini has better close control.

Pro. F

GSPfan wrote: »

Surprised none of you have picked up on Moyes comments today saying Fellaini isn't necessarily gonna be in midfield.
He said he can play off the main striker aswell. So Kagawa has even more competition.

Fúck I didn't know he said that. If Moyes plays Fellaini in there now and again I won't mind. But if he starts getting the team to play hoof ball with Fellaini I will be instantly calling for him to be sacked.

kryogen

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Would be kinda funny if the first MF we bought in years wasn't even played there.:eek:

If it happens, I will march.

tupac_healy

Pro. F wrote: »

No, Fellaini has better close control.

I'd agree with that, he looks technically superior to Kedhira, but I think on average Kedhira gets through more work in a game, maybe thats just me but it seems that way, and Fellaini would be a greater threat in the box

onemorechance

Neeson wrote: »

Perhaps. I think Fellaini is there on a large part because he's Moyes' buddy and to model the shirt.

You reckon he'll be able to take Cleverley's place in the team?

Kylo Ren

onemorechance wrote: »

You reckon he'll be able to take Cleverley's place in the team?

Without a doubt. He's a starter.

tupac_healy

onemorechance wrote: »

You reckon he'll be able to take Cleverley's place in the team?

No doubt, offers more aggression than young Clev and they are probably about the same level technically, if Fellaini is not even slightly better!!


Overally he will give us presence in the midfield, so for sure he will take over from Clev....

Vic Vinegar

GSPfan wrote: »

Surprised none of you have picked up on Moyes comments today saying Fellaini isn't necessarily gonna be in midfield.
He said he can play off the main striker aswell. So Kagawa has even more competition.

That's a quite mischievous way of phrasing it!

What he said was -

"He can play higher up, if we need it, behind the striker or as a defensive or holding midfielder. In any position in the middle of the field he's comfortable. Because of that I think it's definitely a position where people have said we've been short of numbers, with the likes of Paul Scholes [retiring] and [the injured] Darren Fletcher not ready to come back just now. I felt we needed to strengthen there and I'm glad we got him."

Pro. F

tupac_healy wrote: »

I'd agree with that, he looks technically superior to Kedhira, but I think on average Kedhira gets through more work in a game, maybe thats just me but it seems that way, and Fellaini would be a greater threat in the box

Actually yeah, I glossed over that. I agree that Khedira gets through more work, specifically imo by being more disciplined in his defensive work and also in his passing. But imo Fellaini's skills, especially his ability in tight spots, are more useful.

BigBabyTaylor

Can't see Fellani behind the striker. I'm pretty sure I read an interview with him last year and he said he was pushed furthur up field due to lack of other options. He also said he prefers sitting in a deeper midfield role and hoped to return there this season.

onemorechance

Keno wrote: »

Without a doubt. He's a starter.

tupac_healy wrote: »

No doubt, offers more aggression than young Clev and they are probably about the same level technically, if Fellaini is not even slightly better!!


Overally he will give us presence in the midfield, so for sure he will take over from Clev....

I have no doubt he will; just wondering what Neeson thought! He rates Cleverley but not Barry or Milner. Milner I think is better than Cleverley, I'm neutral on Barry!

SherlockWatson

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

No, fellaini can play in different roles in the team whereas khedira is fairly limited in what he has to do IMO.

Rayne Wooney

tupac_healy wrote: »

No doubt, offers more aggression than young Clev and they are probably about the same level technically, if Fellaini is not even slightly better!!


Overally he will give us presence in the midfield, so for sure he will take over from Clev....

I don't get this, you say here Clev and Felliani are the same level technically maybe a slight difference, but in your post further up you say Fellaini is superior to Khedira. So would you say Clev is at a higher level than Khedira?

Imo Khedira is one of the poster boys for technical players, his awareness, passing, defensive discipline, work rate etc is all top drawer. If you were making a team and looking for that specific type of player, who could you pick over Khedira? I'm guessing only a handful of names, Schweinsteiger one, Martinez maybe, Busquets.. it's late and I can't think of anymore but it's a short list.

Fellaini beats Khedira with ball control maybe, I'm not too gone on it, I've never really seen Khedira's ball control as a weakness, but I'll make a note to watch for that in his next game. Apparently we bid £34m for Khedira, is that what we bid for Fabregas?

onemorechance

SherlockWatson wrote: »

No, fellaini can play in different roles in the team whereas khedira is fairly limited in what he has to do IMO.

I think Fellaini was the best available in the PL. Of the similar players in the PL, I'd rate Yaya ahead of him, not sure who else.

tinofapples

Manchester United ‘had failed bid for Wesley Sneijder’, claim Galatasaray

Manchester United made an unsuccessful bid to sign Galatasaray midfielder Wesley Sneijder in the closing stages of the transfer window, the Turkish giants have confirmed.

David Moyes’ first transfer window as Manchester United manager has gained a mixed reception after Marouane Fellaini proved his only major signing.

The Premier League champions tried and failed with bids for Cesc Fabregas, Thiago Alcantara, Leighton Baines, Ander Herrera and Sami Khedira over the course of the summer, as well as running out of time to complete the loan signing of Real Madrid left-back Fabio Coentrao.

And it has now emerged Moyes also missed out on bringing Dutch international Sneijder to Old Trafford two weeks before transfer deadline day.

Has to be total horsesh!t

http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/03/manchester-united-had-failed-bid-for-wesley-sneijder-claim-galatasaray-3949095/

onemorechance

tinofapples wrote: »

Has to be total horsesh!t

http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/03/manchester-united-had-failed-bid-for-wesley-sneijder-claim-galatasaray-3949095/

Also Liverpool.

"It's obviously great to be linked with a club as big as Liverpool," Sneijder said.

"However, they have not played Champions League football for a few seasons and I am happy here at Galatasaray."

Galatasaray also recently rejected an offer from Manchester United for Sneijder according to the Lion's Sportive Coordinator Bülent Tulun.

”Sneijder received an indirect offer from Manchester United two-weeks ago but it was not accepted," Tulun told Milliyet.

“There are several clubs that want him [Sneijder] but just like we can't let go of Burak [Yilmaz] we also have to keep hold of Sneijder.”

turkish-football.com

There are so many interested parties these days, the players, their agents, their clubs, the journalists, the bookmakers, that these transfer rumours can have so many montivations beyond the player mentioned actually moving to the club mentioned.

Liam O

I was in favour of a move for Khedira but for that price it would have been lunacy, he should be about £15m all things considered.

Neeson

onemorechance wrote: »

You reckon he'll be able to take Cleverley's place in the team?

I think he will but I have a feeling Moyes has a bit of a hard-on for Cleverley and doesn't look too kindly upon Carrick.

In this instance he may swap Cleverley with Carrick as I believe Moyes sees a cheeky right foot in the boy Cleverley and would maintain he can man the midfield and slice open the opposition defence with a deft through-ball. He will see Carrick as a good option of the bench.

Neeson

Neeson wrote: »

I think he will but I have a feeling Moyes has a bit of a hard-on for Cleverley and doesn't look too kindly upon Carrick.

In this instance he may swap Cleverley with Carrick as I believe Moyes sees a cheeky right foot in the boy Cleverley and would maintain he can man the midfield and slice open the opposition defence with a deft through-ball. He will see Carrick as a good option of the bench.

I wouldn't be a critic of Cleverley's (he's not amazing or anything) but he isn't half the player Carrick has been. Anyone that has watched the premier league over the past few seasons would know this. Sure Cleverley doesn't even play the deep role that Carrick does, they aren't really that interchangeable unless you're talking about playing a much more attacking midfield. Because the only player that could fill Carrick's role imo would be our most recent signing, Fellaini. Anderson roams forward way more often than Carrick too.

---

This is why I think Fellaini is a perfect signing, he can fill both roles really well, he's proved it against top opposition within a limited team. If we're defending a lead he can provide much needed muscle in a deep role breaking play up and putting himself about. If we need that goal in extra time he can throw himself about in the penalty box battering ram style like he did against us, he's got excellent close control and passing ability, he's a true all rounder. We needed strength, power and versatility in midfield and I believe we got it. This doesn't mean we didn't/don't need a world class playmaker in midfield, at least we actually went for world class in Fabregas.

This indicates we will likely continue similar pursuits in the near future, so I'm looking forward to our future under Moyes guidance. He did something Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder. I think this illustrates how childish some people have been during/after this transfer window; expectations have not been managed.

tupac_healy

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't get this, you say here Clev and Felliani are the same level technically maybe a slight difference, but in your post further up you say Fellaini is superior to Khedira. So would you say Clev is at a higher level than Khedira?

Imo Khedira is one of the poster boys for technical players, his awareness, passing, defensive discipline, work rate etc is all top drawer. If you were making a team and looking for that specific type of player, who could you pick over Khedira? I'm guessing only a handful of names, Schweinsteiger one, Martinez maybe, Busquets.. it's late and I can't think of anymore but it's a short list.

Fellaini beats Khedira with ball control maybe, I'm not too gone on it, I've never really seen Khedira's ball control as a weakness, but I'll make a note to watch for that in his next game. Apparently we bid £34m for Khedira, is that what we bid for Fabregas?

I agree with all in bold, unfortunately those are other aspects to his game and not his technical ability with a football.... Take Thiago as an example, look how he maneuvers the ball in tight areas, his just sheer ability on the ball, its a sight to behold at such a young age.... Kedhira is not that type.

I'd say Clev's technique is up there, thats not the part of his game that is lacking, it's more physical/mental toughness he needs to build up to become a top drawer player, his technique looks pretty good.


For the names in bold, I'd have Yaya up there for sure, Fellaini would not be far behind in that mold either, and obviously Kedhira is well up there, I'm not downing the man at all, I think he is a brilliant footballer and he would have been a fantastic signing for us, I just don't see a world of difference between him and Afroman


Well if we could have got Kedhira for 34, then we should really have got both and just dominated teams for years to come....


Again, I just want to say.... All of these players mentioned above are all top top drawer players playing for the best clubs in the world, we are not talking huge gaps between them, very minute levels of difference to be fair....

onemorechance

Neeson wrote: »

I think he will but I have a feeling Moyes has a bit of a hard-on for Cleverley and doesn't look too kindly upon Carrick.

In this instance he may swap Cleverley with Carrick as I believe Moyes sees a cheeky right foot in the boy Cleverley and would maintain he can man the midfield and slice open the opposition defence with a deft through-ball. He will see Carrick as a good option of the bench.

Carrick out and Cleverley stays! :eek: I'd expect Carrick and Fellaini to be starting 90% of PL and CL games. De Gea, Evra, Rio, Vidic, Rafael, Carrick, Fellaini, Rooney, RVP are United's top nine and should be certain starters for me.

Nani, Kagawa, Wellbeck, Hernandez, Valencia, Young, Anderson for last two spots depending on tactics and opposition. After the Liverpool game I'd find it hard to see room for Cleverley or Giggs in big game, when the other three CM are fit. Zaha is yet to be seen in PL. Smalling and Evans as defensive cover; I'd rather them as full-backs than Jones, who seems to be on the career path of jack-of-all-trades, master of none.

Wellbeck I think has the potential to be favoured by Moyes over Nani and Kagawa due to his versatility; Nani favours the right wing; Kagawa favours the center; we'll see if Moyes plays them there. I hope Hernandez is given plenty of chances to play, I'm a big fan! Valencia of 2 years ago is a certain starter; hopefully Moyes can get him back. Young blows hot, and at United more frequently cold, so he's another that hopefully Moyes can improve.

There is huge potential in this squad, now it's just a case of coaching and attitude! :pac:

onemorechance

Sacramento wrote: »

I wouldn't be a critic of Cleverley's (he's not amazing or anything) but he isn't half the player Carrick has been. Anyone that has watched the premier league over the past few seasons would know this. Sure Cleverley doesn't even play the deep role that Carrick does, they aren't really that interchangeable unless you're talking about playing a much more attacking midfield. Because the only player that could fill Carrick's role imo would be our most recent signing, Fellaini. Anderson roams forward way more often than Carrick too.

---

This is why I think Fellaini is a perfect signing, he can fill both roles really well, he's proved it against top opposition within a limited team. If we're defending a lead he can provide much needed muscle in a deep role breaking play up and putting himself about. If we need that goal in extra time he can throw himself about in the penalty box battering ram style like he did against us, he's got excellent close control and passing ability, he's a true all rounder. We needed strength, power and versatility in midfield and I believe we got it. This doesn't mean we didn't/don't need a world class playmaker in midfield, at least we actually went for world class in Fabregas.

This indicates we will likely continue similar pursuits in the near future, so I'm looking forward to our future under Moyes guidance. He did something Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder. I think this illustrates how childish some people have been during/after this transfer window; expectations have not been managed.

Agree mostly, except "Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder".

Powell, Kagawa, Jones, Pogba, Anderson, Hargreaves. All of these are central midfield players bought by SAF in the last 6 years.

After spending big, and in hind-sight, over-paying, on Anderson and Hargreaves, he went for future potential in Pogba and Powell, and big enough money again on Jones and Kagawa.

I'm sure many will take the chance to slate him for 'letting Pogba go', but given his experience I expect the offer made to Pogba was more based on the real world than Football Manager! :pac:

onemorechance

onemorechance wrote: »

Agree mostly, except "Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder".

Powell, Kagawa, Jones, Pogba, Anderson, Hargreaves. All of these are central midfield players bought by SAF in the last 6 years.

After spending big, and in hind-sight, over-paying, on Anderson and Hargreaves, he went for future potential in Pogba and Powell, and big enough money again on Jones and Kagawa.

I'm sure many will take the chance to slate him for 'letting Pogba go', but given his experience I expect the offer made to Pogba was more based on the real world than Football Manager! :pac:

Ok but Anderson and Hargreaves were signed May 2007 so that'd be over six years. Kagawa is not a midfielder if you ask me, certainly not a central one that we needed, his best position is behind the striker, he'd never work as one of a two man midfield I don't think. Jones is a centre back that has played in midfield because of our lack of strength/numbers there and Powell and Pogba were youth signings and nothing more, Pogba being the one that got away I guess. We've needed someone that could come straight into the midfield and play at the same level as the rest of the team for a long long time. Moyes and Woodward did it in their first season with us, they deserve credit for it. Ferguson and Gill didn't.

onemorechance

Sacramento wrote: »

Ok but Anderson and Hargreaves were signed May 2007 so that'd be over six years. Kagawa is not a midfielder if you ask me, certainly not a central one that we needed, his best position is behind the striker, he'd never work as one of a two man midfield I don't think. Jones is a centre back that has played in midfield because of our lack of strength/numbers there and Powell and Pogba were youth signings and nothing more, Pogba being the one that got away I guess. We've needed someone that could come straight into the midfield and play at the same level as the rest of the team for a long long time. Moyes and Woodward did it in their first season with us, they deserve credit for it. Ferguson and Gill didn't.

Jones was defensive CM most often at Blackburn. His potential in CM was touted as one of the main reasons SAF bought him.

Anderson and Hargreaves might have affected future desisions on spending big on CM. But the purchase of Fellaini fills a void that has being there for a long time.

onemorechance

onemorechance wrote: »

Jones was defensive CM most often at Blackburn. His potential in CM was touted as one of the main reasons SAF bought him.

Anderson and Hargreaves might have affected future desisions on spending big on CM. But the purchase of Fellaini fills a void that has being there for a long time.

But Jones is a centre back.. He has versatility that allows him to play defensive midfield and right back but he was never seen as a permanent option in midfield by SAF, he lacks the range of passing. Ferguson tipped him to ultimately play centre back for United here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2304420/Phil-Jones-animal-Manchester-United-defender-backed-play-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html

I kinda agree with you on Anderson because he has shown flashes every season of what he is capable of but always breaks down with injury which is so bitterly disappointing. I simply wouldn't count Hargreaves. I'd put more weight towards Darren Fletcher than him.

homerjay2005

Pj! wrote: »

If Evra were to get injured we're in trouble. Buttner is dire. Fabio isn't good. It's our weakest position for a replacement.

would you not think our options for RB are worse? defensively we have Smalling for there, but realistically all we have is Valencia as Jones should never again be played there. Evans playing left back is no worse than Smalling or jones playing there.

Buttner played about 10 games last season and apart from 2 or 3 where he was out of his depth, he did ok. Fabio can also do a great job there if needed, he just needs a run of games to get going.

CM however is still our worst area, but all of a sudden i think left wing is also a problem. with the age of 3 or 4 of our first 11 players and the form of the likes of Young and Valencia a huge issue as well as doubts over Rooney long term future, we are getting to a stage where we will need huge investment in the next 2 years again.

its not the ideal situation to be in.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

Actually yeah, I glossed over that. I agree that Khedira gets through more work, specifically imo by being more disciplined in his defensive work and also in his passing. But imo Fellaini's skills, especially his ability in tight spots, are more useful.

Also his physical presence in the middle. It was so painful to watch him brushing aside Cleverley, Scholes, Evra and even Valencia when we played them.

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would you not think our options for RB are worse? defensively we have Smalling for there, but realistically all we have is Valencia as Jones should never again be played there. Evans playing left back is no worse than Smalling or jones playing there.

Buttner played about 10 games last season and apart from 2 or 3 where he was out of his depth, he did ok. Fabio can also do a great job there if needed, he just needs a run of games to get going.

CM however is still our worst area, but all of a sudden i think left wing is also a problem. with the age of 3 or 4 of our first 11 players and the form of the likes of Young and Valencia a huge issue as well as doubts over Rooney long term future, we are getting to a stage where we will need huge investment in the next 2 years again.

its not the ideal situation to be in.

Options at RB is fine. Rafael is obviously first choice.
Fabio - We have seen how good he is when given games in 2011 and is equally good LB.
Jones - Can't be bad as a 3rd choice RB
Smalling - 4th choice
Valencia - If at all we need a emergency RB.

gracehopper

NIce info regarding Fellaini if it is indeed true

Lovely Bloke

Why are people buying into that spin?

ALL players who hand in a transfer request take the hit on the loyalty fee - if they don't it's unusual.

Giggsy11

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why are people buying into that spin?

ALL players who hand in a transfer request take the hit on the loyalty fee - if they don't it's unusual.

Telegraph reporting that United paid 23.5 Million and since Everton saved 4 Million loyalty fee the deal is worth 27.5 Million for them.

Or do we have to believe only the negative stuff about United?

gracehopper

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why are people buying into that spin?

ALL players who hand in a transfer request take the hit on the loyalty fee - if they don't it's unusual.

I don't really see it as spin. What surprised me was the suggested amount. Its probably over a years wages for him which is a lot for anyone considering they have a 15 year career. It is a positive thing that a guy wants to pull on a united shirt and is willing to pay to do so

NTMK

gracehopper wrote: »

NIce info regarding Fellaini if it is indeed true

He should be an example to all players on how to do a transfer imo. Played matches no problem, No talking to the press by the player or the agent, held a private meeting with the club to sort is out and gave up a large loyalty bonus to make it happen

homerjay2005

gracehopper wrote: »

NIce info regarding Fellaini if it is indeed true

looks great for him, his attitude and drive appears to be top class, but doesnt bode well for the club officials.

its kinda sad players have to do that and he forced the transfer with 4 hours to go, then had to drive to manchester himself. it looks like that deal would also have collapsed were it not for Fellani and i assume his relationship with Moyes.