Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

bucketybuck

Winston Payne wrote: »

I think he meant that in the sense that Benteke was well ahead of him.

Its kinda helps when you get to play regularly.

Macca07

homerjay2005 wrote: »

id expect it to be filling up about 12.00 and full by 12.45 for what ever the early game is, normally.

we stay clear of it though nowadays, its a pete boyle love fest and he is only after your money! if you love a sing song, then its ideal, but in terms of being able to get a drink quickly and be able to talk to the lads about the game, have a bit of craic, its a place to avoid.

we generally only go in there, after the games. Mulligans in town is where we normally go now, or any of the cheap pubs around that general area and head out then close to kick off.

I'm heading over with the missus, it's her first time, so looking for somewhere with a bit of atmosphere. Plan on getting there for 1ish, but will see on the day. I love the sing song in there before the game, it can be quiet after the game.

keane2097

listermint wrote: »

It wasnt me that said it but...

Whats daft ?

Benteke

Apps. Goals Apps
2012–13 34 19
2013–14 5 4


Chicharito

2012–13 22 10
2013–14 2 0

Winston Payne wrote: »

I think he meant that in the sense that Benteke was well ahead of him.

listermint wrote: »

I see, wasnt very clear


'maybe' was that it ?

Yeah sorry if it wasn't unclear, I was saying it's daft to not realise Benteke is a considerably better player.

keane2097

MagicMarker wrote: »

Last season...

Christian Benteke – 148.6 mins/goal

Javier Hernandez – 94.8 mins/goal

Yeah. Benteke can fúck off.

United goals - 86
Villa goals - 47

You have always struck me in other fora as a guy who is too smart to make a bad argument like the one above, so I'm not sure if you were joking with it or not.

listermint

MagicMarker wrote: »

Last season...

Christian Benteke – 148.6 mins/goal

Javier Hernandez – 94.8 mins/goal

Yeah. Benteke can fúck off.

lol

And Benteke managed all of that with a technically challenged team of youngsters behind him.

Your goals per minutes stats means nothing in the real world.

Mitch Connor

listermint wrote: »

lol

And Benteke managed all of that with a technically challenged team of youngsters behind him.

Your goals per minutes stats means nothing in the real world.

And chico managed it with a technically challenged bunch of wingers and a defunct central midfield, while dipping in and out of the team, and fitting in where required rather than having the team geared towards him.

Swings and roundabouts.

MagicMarker

listermint wrote: »

lol

And Benteke managed all of that with a technically challenged team of youngsters behind him.

Your goals per minutes stats means nothing in the real world.

And Hernandez managed it essentially as a fourth choice striker.

EuropeanSon

I have to think that anyone who rates Hernandez ahead of Giroud based on some nonsense like goals per minute has never watched an Arsenal game. Giroud contributes far more than just goals, his hold up play and technical ability are outstanding.

Just look at Saturday. Played a fantastic role in Wilshere's goal, and then put one on a plate for Ozil, who'd never scored a header in his life before. Look at his goals for France over the international break.

He's certainly not yet as good as van Persie, but he's in a different league to Hernandez IMO.

listermint

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And chico managed it with a technically challenged bunch of wingers and a defunct central midfield, while dipping in and out of the team, and fitting in where required rather than having the team geared towards him.

Swings and roundabouts.

its not swings and roundabouts ffs. As people have been so hard pressed to tell me around here. "this team won the league last year"

"this team won the league last year"

So i think your comparison is about as accurate as.....

listermint

MagicMarker wrote: »

And Hernandez managed it essentially as a fourth choice striker.

So your telling me if he was first choice striker he would score as many / more as benteke.

Im struggling to see it. Literally struggling to see it.

keane2097

MagicMarker wrote: »

And Hernandez managed it essentially as a fourth choice striker.

How does being fourth choice striker change how impressive his goals per minute is? That's the whole point of the stat - it removes how often you play from the list of variables.

Rayne Wooney

Kagawa has to feature sometime in the next two games

Hopefully behind RVP

Pro. F

I had the very start of losing patience with Moyes in that game on Saturday. It seemed like the team were doing kind of okay for the first hour or so, all things being relative and giving Moyes the benefit of the doubt. There was some good link up play, which is better than what we've seen so far this season. And that was even with Rooney having a stinker.

But when the substitutions started it just got more and more WTFish. Why take off Nani and Fellaini? Why bring on a defender for a forward? I don't care how late in the game it was, the result was still up for grabs. Why bring on Giggs? I know we were lacking players because of injury and form, but still, there were better options than Giggs.

Southampton are a decent team, but this is another poor result. The form at the moment is woeful. Moyes needs to turn it around immediately to save the season.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yesterdays game.

Two issues immediately noticable.

Rooney and RVP pretty much alongside each other, so link between attack and defence tougher.

More of an issue - Fellaini and Carrick basically standing on each other for the game. Despite the criticism, I don't think Fellaini is as bad a player as we have seen so far - I think he simply isn't playing well. Doesn't seem to either have a role, or understand the role, and hasn't developed a partnership with Carrick.

That average position looks compatible to me with them playing as a 9 and 10. You have to remember that for half the time they will be defending, where they do play beside each other in the defensive 442 shape. Then the rest of the time they will still be near each other while doing different jobs. Rooney shows for the ball more, gets on it more (hence why his name is bigger and bolder) and looks to link it up, RvP drifts more, looking for space more.

The problem for me is the midfield being too deep and rigid and the lack of fluency among the whole team.

Maximus Alexander

Edit: Quoted Pro F instead of Mitch's graph by accident. :pac:

Hmmm... so my impression that Carrick and Fellaini have been trying to play the exact same role would appear to be correct. That is bound to be hurting the team.

Ordinary man

I expected carrick would push on more with fellaini to cover but he seems reluctant to.

Pro. F

The thing that makes Hernandez a top striker imo is his movement and finishing. He is fantastic at sniffing out goals and that is the most important aspect of a striker's job.

The idea that a goal poacher can't play up front on his own is wrong, it works perfectly fine if the team is good at controlling the ball. And the idea that goal poachers are a thing of the past is also wrong, it's one of those myths about the modern game that continue to get repeated down the years while they continue to get disproved.

If Chico gets given a fair shot at starting football at a good club he will piss all over whatever league he is in.

homerjay2005

at least one positive thing, Moyes does appear to be learning in some things and he has made so many mistakes, he is surely coming to an end in making them.

3 home games now to get things right - 3 points and 2 wins in the cup sets us up nicely for what will be a huge November.

There's no need for both Carrick and Fellani in the same team. It's not balanced.

bullvine

I really thought Fellaini was more of box to box player akin to Yaya Toure, going by his Goal Scoring record but he doesnt seem to be getting anywhere near the box. I thought in the Leverkusen match he did drive forward, perhaps his performance against City has hurt his confidence.

Mitch Connor

rarnes1 wrote: »

There's no need for both Carrick and Fellani in the same team. It's not balanced.

I still reckon it would work well for us, and allow players like Rooney, RVP, Nani, Januzaj or Kagawa freedom to attack.

I genuinely think the issues are:

1. Fellaini doesn't know what his role is.
2. Carrick doesn't know what Fellaini's role is.
3. Fellaini is playing poorly - partly due to not knowing his role, and seems a little overawed.

If Moyes can get those two playing together, it will improve us imo, and it can work.

Carrick should maintain the role he plays/played beside Cleverley - sit back more, take from the defence and play forward.

Fellaini should take a more offence role - not as an attacking midfielder, but as a central midfielder who gets forward. He simply isn't imposing himself on the game - he is staying too deep, trying to play the same role as Carrick and we KNOW he can do a different role to that.

We should be modeling that midfield pairing on Keane/Butt or Keane/Ince.

The quality isn't there, but two solid midfielders can play together - it just needs to be balanced, and the issue at the moment is that Carrick and Fellaini don't have that balance. Hopefully it will come.

I do wonder if Fellaini sitting so far back and actively retreating from attacks is a direct instruction from Moyes.

DM_7

With the way Rooney drops off the front, Januzaj and Nani playing off the wing going into the centre then having Carrick and Fellaini can work.

One of them needs to step up the field more when in possesion and Januzaj or Rooney need to become a third midfield player at times getting alongside, for arguments sake Felliani when he steps up.

If United lose the ball they should press as Carrick is already sitting back as cover then filter back if they don't win the ball.

Using Jones and the Evans together and getting them used to playing as a pair will be important in getting United to push up the field cutting down the gap between defence, midfield and forwards.

Moyes was guilty of playing safe tactics from the beginning to try and get through the tough early games. Now he looks to be working on the formation of new partnerships down the spine of the team - at the moment, Evans/Jones, Carrick/Fellaini are getting played together to support the established RVP/Rooney. The link between those pairings is missing as the defenders, midfielders are sitting too far back. Once he is happy that Evans/Jones and Carrick/Felliani are used to each other I think they will be asked to play a higher defensive line to support the attack, hopefully anyway!

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

Moyes was guilty of playing safe tactics from the beginning to try and get through the tough early games. Now he looks to be working on the formation of new partnerships down the spine of the team - at the moment, Evans/Jones, Carrick/Fellaini are getting played together to support the established RVP/Rooney. The link between those pairings is missing as the defenders, midfielders are sitting too far back. Once he is happy that Evans/Jones and Carrick/Felliani are used to each other I think they will be asked to play a higher defensive line to support the attack, hopefully anyway!

I agree with you on this - I think part of the problem is Moyes is trying to get to know the players and trust them, while we are going on years of watching them - he is going on a few games of managing them.

We all pretty much wanted Young binned - Moyes gave him a chance. It didn't work out and rather than stick with that he has given Januzaj a go, which has be taken.

Its a small enough change but at the same time it is possibly significant as arguably his first real decision at United in terms of playing staff.

I do wish Kagawa and Chico were given more game time, but it isn't to be, so far anyway.

Possibly, when a spine is settled on, to provide the defensive strength and stability, we will see more variation in the attacking side of the game.

Hopefully.

Rayne Wooney

I'd like to see some movement in that line behind the striker, it's so rigid. We used to do it when Ronaldo was in the team with players interchanging, surely Rooney, Jan/Kagawa and Nani are capable of the same.

I know Moyes is learning but he needs to learn faster, if most of the fans can see where we're going wrong after 8 games he should as well.

It's like he bought the two part encyclopaedia of football tactics and the attacking part got lost in the post.

Backstreet Moyes

The one thing i expected from Moyes was we would be solid at the back. All the defenders so far have made silly errors. Vidic and Ferdinand in particular have been very poor considering how good they were last season. The back 4 more than papered over the cracks of our midfield for a few seasons. Really need to sort out the back 4 i think we need a set back 4 and little rotation.

kryogen

Macca07 wrote: »

1 Have I once defended his tactics or substitutions? Please quote me on that.

2 Yes I do think that some players should be given more of a chance, but I'd be fairly certain that these players are getting plenty of chances in training to prove themselves. I presume the players you are on about are Kagawa and Chico. I'm sure he's picking the players that he feels are performing best in training.

3 BTW, what negative mindset has been shown?

1 Did I say you did or did I ask your opinion? I cant ask you a question to gather your opinion? Cool.

2 Your speculation is as good as anybody elses

3 Are you ****in kidding me? Doesn't require an answer bud sorry

jebus84

anderson starting for the u21 tonight ,no sign of zaha

tallaghtmick

After reading this and older threads.....

Mitch Connor

tallaghtmick wrote: »

After reading this and older threads.....

Boll*x. Don't be so stupid.

200 people managing would be chaos.

I'll take charge of the team - Homer can take on the CEO duties.

SORTED.

IvySlayer

Keno can be tea lady

Mary can be bus driver

I will be a scout, starting in the bahamas, then the world cup in Brazil

Kew and his dad, press officers

tallaghtmick

Sound Ill be 1st team coach, ill get those CMs playing like Gods!!!

Mitch Connor

IvySlayer wrote: »

Keno can be tea lady

Mary can be driver

I will be a scout, starting in the bahamas, then the world cup in Brazil

Kew and his dad, press officers

FFS.

A woman driving? We want to forfeit all our away games (and probably the first few home games?).

Just kidding Mars Bar.... sorry!

RobertKK

Goalkeeper Sam Johnstone sees how bad things are at United, says he might come back as a midfielder... :eek: :pac:

Paul Tergat

IvySlayer wrote: »

Keno can be tea lady

Mary can be bus driver

I will be a scout, starting in the bahamas, then the world cup in Brazil

Kew and his dad, press officers

I have to be in with a shout for fitness coach

Maximus Alexander

I'll be a Glazer.

Mitch Connor

First signing I want Homer to sort is that physio from Chelsea.

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'll be a Glazier.

There a lot of windows round OT and the Aon Training Complex - but surely you could dibs a better role!

n32

bullvine wrote: »

I really thought Fellaini was more of box to box player akin to Yaya Toure, going by his Goal Scoring record but he doesnt seem to be getting anywhere near the box. I thought in the Leverkusen match he did drive forward, perhaps his performance against City has hurt his confidence.

The problem Fellaini is having is that he s playing a role that never suited him at Everton. Fellaini at his most devestating was when he was playing off the striker and was controlling long balls and bringing others into the game. In interviews he says he sees himself as a DM but he doesnt seem to have the quickness (mentally and physically) to play the DM role. If we want to get the best out of him , unfortunately we would have to resort to playing Jack Charlton football

Mitch Connor

n32 wrote: »

If we want to get the best out of him , unfortunately we would have to resort to playing Jack Charlton football

I don't agree with this.

He is one of the key players for Belgium and they don't play him up front or hoof ball football.

I think DM isn't suiting him, or us, because we have Carrick playing that role. I don't think we have to play him off the top either to get something out of him - he just needs to learn the balance of our midfield two. When to stay and when to go. We actually need him to push on and come on to the lose ball around the box, or late man on the cross in. He can do it imo. He isn't as bad as his showings for us have been - I think he is just playing poorly, for a variety of reasons.

n32

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't agree with this.

He is one of the key players for Belgium and they don't play him up front or hoof ball football.

I think DM isn't suiting him, or us, because we have Carrick playing that role. I don't think we have to play him off the top either to get something out of him - he just needs to learn the balance of our midfield two. When to stay and when to go. We actually need him to push on and come on to the lose ball around the box, or late man on the cross in. He can do it imo. He isn't as bad as his showings for us have been - I think he is just playing poorly, for a variety of reasons.

The lack of a summer with his new team mates doesnt help. Talk about a balls of a transfer to leave it till the last minute and then to throw him straight into a new team after only a few sessions was ridiculous. 2 international breaks so far this season havent helped him either

Kerrydude1981

Agree about Fellaini at times on Saturday he seemed to be caught between two positions,didn't know whether to push on or stay and play DM.

tallaghtmick

How do Belgium play him?

Mitch Connor

tallaghtmick wrote: »

How do Belgium play him?

Centre mid as far as I know. Beside Witsel.

Jimmy Iovine

Anyone have an idea how much Fergie's book is going to cost? I've only found prices on Amazon (£10) and WHSmith (£16).

Mars Bar

Mitch Connor wrote: »

FFS.

A woman driving? We want to forfeit all our away games (and probably the first few home games?).

Just kidding Mars Bar.... sorry!

I agree with Mitch! :P

I'll be the analyst. :cool:

tallaghtmick

Mars Bar wrote: »

I agree with Mitch! :P

I'll be the analyst. :cool:

No mods allowed :pac:

n32

Varela looks a promising player in u21 game. Ekangamene looks like a prospect aswell

Mitch Connor

tallaghtmick wrote: »

No mods allowed :pac:

yeah, we be rockers. ROCK ON.

tallaghtmick

n32 wrote: »

Varela looks a promising player in u21 game. Ekangamene looks like a prospect aswell

Reminds me of

Pogba

:pac:

n32

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Reminds me of

Pogba

:pac:

Dont even go there! Watching fiorentina juve yesterday himself and tevez scored followed by a hat trick from giusseppe rossi!

homerjay2005

IvySlayer wrote: »

Kew and his dad, press officers

hard job to dislodge this fellow....he has been around all summer