Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

GSPfan

I wonder if having Fellaini will be good for AJ? Fellow Belgian and all.
I defo think we need another Spaniard for DDG. Poor guy was trying his best to get someone for us all Summer.

NTMK

GSPfan wrote: »

I wonder if having Fellaini will be good for AJ? Fellow Belgian and all.
I defo think we need another Spaniard for DDG. Poor guy was trying his best to get someone for us all Summer.

we better ****ing buy one tbh because Barca will be looking for a keeper next summer and De Gea will be a prime target no doubt

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

looks great for him, his attitude and drive appears to be top class, but doesnt bode well for the club officials.

its kinda sad players have to do that and he forced the transfer with 4 hours to go, then had to drive to manchester himself. it looks like that deal would also have collapsed were it not for Fellani and i assume his relationship with Moyes.

It's not the first time player took wage cut to force the transfer.

Martinez took 1 Million per year wage cut to sign for Bayern, also Fabregas took wage cut (4 Million on his contract) to force his move to Barca.

Still we should have signed him lot earlier, leaving it so late was really poor decision.

Mitch Connor

NTMK wrote: »

we better ****ing buy one tbh because Barca will be looking for a keeper next summer and De Gea will be a prime target no doubt

Would imagine Reina is nailed on to be honest. His loan move to napoli looks a staging post to me. The fact he is a barca kid would play heavily in his favour.

Crimson King

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would imagine Reina is nailed on to be honest. His loan move to napoli looks a staging post to me. The fact he is a barca kid would play heavily in his favour.

And has actually played for them too, the Barca DNA will be strong in him

NTMK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would imagine Reina is nailed on to be honest. His loan move to napoli looks a staging post to me. The fact he is a barca kid would play heavily in his favour.

fair enough I thought his move was permanent but it looks likely it would be him since he is only gone on loan.

homerjay2005

is reina good enough for Barcelona?

i dont think he is. if we lost DDG, it would be a disaster, he is the one genuine young world class player we have.

Nuri Sahin

onemorechance wrote: »

Agree mostly, except "Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder".

Powell, Kagawa, Jones, Pogba, Anderson, Hargreaves. All of these are central midfield players bought by SAF in the last 6 years.

After spending big, and in hind-sight, over-paying, on Anderson and Hargreaves, he went for future potential in Pogba and Powell, and big enough money again on Jones and Kagawa.

I'm sure many will take the chance to slate him for 'letting Pogba go', but given his experience I expect the offer made to Pogba was more based on the real world than Football Manager! :pac:

He's an attacking midfielder. Always was and always will be.

Even Anderson was recognised as a attacking midfielder when he was bought, then... ugh.. he was converted to a CM/DM.

Was Jones not bought as a CB too?

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is reina good enough for Barcelona?

i dont think he is. if we lost DDG, it would be a disaster, he is the one genuine young world class player we have.

No worse than Valdes.

The way Barca play they don't need a world class keeper, really. Reina would be a free transfer too as his cotract with liverpool is up in the summer, I think. DDG is better, but I reckon they will go for academy graduate free transfer Reina rather than (hopefully) 35million+ DDG.

NTMK

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is reina good enough for Barcelona?

i dont think he is. if we lost DDG, it would be a disaster, he is the one genuine young world class player we have.

tbh a GK at barca is really only there to make up the numbers.

de gea also seems to be also one of the best negotiators we have atm too id be ****ing pissed if we lost him

master-t

poolboy wrote: »

What's your assessment of the league leaders.?

Playing beyond their means Top 6 finish......enjoy it while it lasts. Swansea were joint top after 3 games last season too IIRC so I woulnd tbe too giddy just yet. You have started well though in fairness.......but I'll be shocked if 'this is our year' prophecies come true.

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Would khedira have been a better signing than fellaini

No, I don't think so. Khedira is a very good midfielder no doubt, but in Fellaini we have a goal scoring midfielder. Something we really lacked. Gives us a few options where we can play DM, CM or AMC if needs be.

Neeson wrote: »

Perhaps. I think Fellaini is there on a large part because he's Moyes' buddy and to model the shirt.

No, I would imagine its because he is an excellent CM with years of PL experience and a Belgium International who has been linked with United in the past.

homerjay2005

NTMK wrote: »

de gea also seems to be also one of the best negotiators we have atm too id be ****ing pissed if we lost him

??????

didnt work well with Fabreagas, Thiago and Herrara so far though suppose they were not his fault

GSPfan

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is reina good enough for Barcelona?

i dont think he is. if we lost DDG, it would be a disaster, he is the one genuine young world class player we have.

I think DDG is my favourite player. Love seeing him do well. Annoys me when we let in a goal that ruins his clean sheet.

Yeah Reina has never really impressed me.

NTMK

homerjay2005 wrote: »

??????

didnt work well with Fabreagas, Thiago and Herrara so far though suppose they were not his fault

i didnt say he was good i said he was the best one we got :pac::(

homerjay2005

GSPfan wrote: »

I think DDG is my favourite player.

yep, up there, i wouldnt swap him for any other keeper in the world. im not too optimistic for silverware this year, i think we could struggle, but if DDG, Vidic, Carrick and RVP stay fit, we will rattle the league again.

Cantona's Collars

Was anybody listening to Andy Mitten on Off the Ball last night,he's interviewing Woodward in a couple of weeks,that should be interesting considering his reaction to the transfer shambles.

The_Kew_Tour

Papers trying to make out RVP is not convinced by Moyes.

and people say they hate transfer window.

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

Was anybody listening to Andy Mitten on Off the Ball last night,he's interviewing Woodward in a couple of weeks,that should be interesting considering his reaction to the transfer shambles.

I wonder if he will still get that interview, and if he does, just how open woodward will be.

If Woodward is smart - he'll be very open and very contrite. Lessons to be learned, already working on January plans etc (and then obviously he'll have to actually get it done in January).

homerjay2005

zerks wrote: »

Was anybody listening to Andy Mitten on Off the Ball last night,he's interviewing Woodward in a couple of weeks,that should be interesting considering his reaction to the transfer shambles.

this will be interesting.

Dont know alot about Andy, but i know some here do...is he the type that will make him aware that around 70% of United fans are against him already?

i genuinly fear that Woodward has been so far removed from the fans compared to Gill, that he has no idea whats been going on and that the Glazers and the board will think he is doing his job.

Your Airbag

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Papers trying to make out RVP is not convinced by Moyes.

and people say they hate transfer window.

Yeah I'm hearing this too. I know its twitter but

@FootballFact101 RvP's pal: "Robin isn't happy & when he's frustrated he's capable of something silly & you could see that against Liverpool" [StarSport]

@FootballFact101 RvP's pal: "He feels it isn't the same with Moyes as it was with Fergie. Some of Moyes' training methods are not to his liking either."

https://twitter.com/FootballFact101/status/375132169250668545


https://twitter.com/FootballFact101/status/375132690791403520

Lovely Bloke

I hate the term "pal"

The_Kew_Tour

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yeah I'm hearing this too. I know its twitter but





https://twitter.com/FootballFact101/status/375132169250668545


https://twitter.com/FootballFact101/status/375132690791403520

I wonder how true this is, or is it papers just trying to spin a story cause of our poor summer.

He did look annoyed on Sunday, but he did that few times last season too.

master-t

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yeah I'm hearing this too. I know its twitter but





https://twitter.com/FootballFact101/status/375132169250668545


https://twitter.com/FootballFact101/status/375132690791403520

And it was Modric's 'Pal' who said he wanted to go to United.............


Don't believe a word of it.

Mitch Connor

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I hate the term "pal"

why, buddy?

DM_7

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Telegraph reporting that United paid 23.5 Million and since Everton saved 4 Million loyalty fee the deal is worth 27.5 Million for them.

Or do we have to believe only the negative stuff about United?

How does that work, if United pay 23.5 mill and Everton then owed fell 4 mill the deal is only worth 19.5 mill.

If United pay 27.5 Everton have to pay Fell then it's 23.5 worth to them.

If United pay 23.5 and Everton don't have to pay a loyalty bonus is the deal not still worth 23.5?

What am I missing, it might be an understanding of maths!

nicklauski

Mitch Connor wrote: »

why, buddy?

I'm not your buddy, guy!

Your Airbag

The last thing we need is a pissed off RVP.

He got zero service the last two games. Hopefully a few goals will settle him back down.

Lord TSC

Sacramento wrote: »

He did something Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder.

So here's something I was thinking last night.

Why is it for the last six seasons, the blame for our midfield (and transfer woes) is on Fergie rather than Gil, but this summer, it's on Woodward and not on Moyes?

I'm not saying I agree one way or the other on either deal, and think there's enough blame to go round. But it strikes me for years, Fergie was always the one criticized for not dealing with our central midfield problem, with people calling him blind to the problems, stubborn, etc, while Gil got off relativly scott free. But this summer, Moyes wasn't taking the brunt of the criticism; rather, Woodward is.

Why the change of focus over to the chairman this summer, and why does Gil not get more flack for not getting and closing midfielder targets?

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

How does that work, if United pay 23.5 mill and Everton then owed fell 4 mill the deal is only worth 19.5 mill.

If United pay 27.5 Everton have to pay Fell then it's 23.5 worth to them.

If United pay 23.5 and Everton don't have to pay a loyalty bonus is the deal not still worth 23.5?

What am I missing, it might be an understanding of maths!

If United pay 23.5 million and under normal circumstances Everton have to pay Fellaini 4million of that, they would only retain 19.5million. In this case, they kept the 23.5million. For them to have received 23.5million in normal circumstances (giving 4million to Fellaini) they would have to have recieved 27.5million from United.

Thus, if the loyalty fee was 4million and United paid 23.5 million it works out at worth 27.5million to them.

Julez

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I hate the term "pal"

+100000000

And as Mitch hinted at, Buddy too, people who say "buddy", "pal" and to a lesser extent "mate" are generally knobs and almost always not my buddy, pal or mate.

Nailz

nicklauski wrote: »

I'm not your buddy, guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQK6t2Esng

Pj!

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would you not think our options for RB are worse? defensively we have Smalling for there, but realistically all we have is Valencia as Jones should never again be played there. Evans playing left back is no worse than Smalling or jones playing there.

Buttner played about 10 games last season and apart from 2 or 3 where he was out of his depth, he did ok. Fabio can also do a great job there if needed, he just needs a run of games to get going.

Christ no and I'm even surprised you think that.

Jones, Smalling and Valencia for RB >>>>> Fabio and Buttner for LB.

Buttner is not really OK at all. He's never going to get a long run in the Utd team. His career will probably be elsewhere.
It would be worrying to have to put Fabio in there long-term.
It's clear enough why they tried for Baines and Coentrao. I'd say we'll see a LB of some sort in January.

Mitch Connor

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So here's something I was thinking last night.

Why is it for the last six seasons, the blame for our midfield (and transfer woes) is on Fergie rather than Gil, but this summer, it's on Woodward and not on Moyes?

I'm not saying I agree one way or the other on either deal, and think there's enough blame to go round. But it strikes me for years, Fergie was always the one criticized for not dealing with our central midfield problem, with people calling him blind to the problems, stubborn, etc, while Gil got off relativly scott free. But this summer, Moyes wasn't taking the brunt of the criticism; rather, Woodward is.

Why the change of focus over to the chairman this summer, and why does Gil not get more flack for not getting and closing midfielder targets?

What central midfielders did Fergie identify that we failed to sign, because of poor transfer strategy?

Woodward gets the blame because it appears Moyes wanted them signed and Woodward failed to get it done.

Fergie gets the blame as it appears he didn't ask Gill to sign one in the first place. Gill would, arguably, get the blame for failing to sign Moura/Hazard etc - players we went for and failed to sign.

Nailz

Julez wrote: »

+100000000

And as Mitch hinted at, Buddy too, people who say "buddy", "pal" and to a lesser extent "mate" are generally knobs and almost always not my buddy, pal or mate.

I'm not a fan of the term "pal" either, but I can't stand the "I'm not your mate" argument; they should know what is being meant.

The_Kew_Tour

so back to Man United.

master-t

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What central midfielders did Fergie identify that we failed to sign, because of poor transfer strategy?

Woodward gets the blame because it appears Moyes wanted them signed and Woodward failed to get it done.

Fergie gets the blame as it appears he didn't ask Gill to sign one in the first place. Gill would, arguably, get the blame for failing to sign Moura/Hazard etc - players we went for and failed to sign.

Well you kind of answer your own question in two parts Mitch.


SAF either A) Didnt highlight any CMs for Gill to go get.

or Gill didn't get them.


I'm not sure which way it happened, but it did. We had no CMs.


Also, we missed out on a host of attacking mids and strikers in our time. Lucas, Wesley, Hazard etc. Whose fault is that? You say Gill's? Did we demand Gill be sacked?

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Papers trying to make out RVP is not convinced by Moyes.

and people say they hate transfer window.

And we thought "silly season" was over

Nailz

I remember Gary Neville mentioning that the likes of Manchester United and Arsenal aren't dirty enough about when it comes to transfer business, both clubs being the lowest ranked Premier League clubs in terms of paying agents rates. I can't stand the fuckers, but I think if we wish to stay competitive then we have to step up our involvement in that type of deal making.

We are in the footballing business after all and we are one of the best in it, and if we are to try and sustain our success post-Fergie/Gill then I feel we would step up our negotiation tactics and play more hardball as opposed to straight-laced negotiating. There's nothing wrong with sending in low anchor offers on the first bat like we did with Everton (contrary to what a lot of people say), that offer was one of the oldest tactics in the negotiating handbook, but in the modern game if we are to be doing that we'd want to be doing it with a trick up our sleeve.

Your Airbag

United Hoping to be Better Prepared for the January Window


This part is interesting

At Everton, Moyes was meticulous about his transfer targets. As also detailed by Michael Calvin in his new book on football scouting The Nowhere Men, a "war room" at Everton's Finch Farm training complex was given over to a detailed distillation of targets from all over Europe.
In-depth scouting reports were compiled and potential recruits sifted carefully, before being transferred to a succession of whiteboards that lined the wall. Through financial necessity, targets were carefully selected. United's approach has looked scattergun by comparison.

It's obvious that Moyes didn't carry that system over or tried to adapt a new system at UTD that didn't work out as we'd have all hoped.

Was it to much to expect Moyes & Woodward to play a blinder in their first transfer window? Maybe.

Did they fumble around and do a less than idea? Yes they did.


Are they very experienced? No. Lets just hppe they learn all the lessons they can from this come January.

Adamcp898

Your Airbag wrote: »

United Hoping to be Better Prepared for the January Window


This part is interesting



It's obvious that Moyes didn't carry that system over or tried to adapt a new system at UTD that didn't work out as we'd have all hoped.

Was it to much to expect Moyes & Woodward to play a blinder in their first transfer window? Maybe.

Did they fumble around and do a less than idea? Yes they did.


Are they very experienced? No. Lets just hppe they learn all the lessons they can from this come January.

The Everton system he's talking about is something you couldn't implement in 3 months tbh, he'll probably have directed everyone how to write up scout reports now but it'll be something which will bear fruit over the next two or three years and not in the immediate future. Also ties in the with the rumours that he was shocked by the state of United's scouting department when he took over.

It will get better with time but that being said it'd have to be pretty damn dire to get any worse.

homerjay2005

Pj! wrote: »

Christ no and I'm even surprised you think that.

Jones, Smalling and Valencia for RB >>>>> Fabio and Buttner for LB.

Buttner is not really OK at all. He's never going to get a long run in the Utd team. His career will probably be elsewhere.
It would be worrying to have to put Fabio in there long-term.
It's clear enough why they tried for Baines and Coentrao. I'd say we'll see a LB of some sort in January.

in terms of attacking options from Fullback (and i think this is hugely important) i think buttner is a better ball player than Jones for example.

Jones is a far better overall player and defender, but Buttner is a better ball player if that makes sense or thus, a better full back IMO.

if we need to buy a LB, it doesnt reflect good on Fergie as he spent €4million on one last year after sending Fabio on loan.

NTMK

Your Airbag wrote: »

United Hoping to be Better Prepared for the January Window


This part is interesting



It's obvious that Moyes didn't carry that system over or tried to adapt a new system at UTD that didn't work out as we'd have all hoped.

Was it to much to expect Moyes & Woodward to play a blinder in their first transfer window? Maybe.

Did they fumble around and do a less than idea? Yes they did.


Are they very experienced? No. Lets just hppe they learn all the lessons they can from this come January.

imo its too much to ask to have adopted Moyes scouting/transfer system in 3-4 months and the system in place is probably very difficult to change. The calibre of player for moyes to target has changed too so what scouting done with everton wont be that useful to united

I wasnt expecting a blinder from them being honest. herrera, Fellaini, Coentrao (as a LW) would have been a blinder. I did expect 2 first teamers though

I'd imagine the system will change over the next few months and we'll hopefully be better prepared to make moves and get things done before the world cup

kippy

Your Airbag wrote: »

United Hoping to be Better Prepared for the January Window


This part is interesting



It's obvious that Moyes didn't carry that system over or tried to adapt a new system at UTD that didn't work out as we'd have all hoped.

Was it to much to expect Moyes & Woodward to play a blinder in their first transfer window? Maybe.

Did they fumble around and do a less than idea? Yes they did.


Are they very experienced? No. Lets just hppe they learn all the lessons they can from this come January.

Is it really that obvious?
Or is it more likely that:
1. Moyes hasnt had the time to do this. Especially considering the major upheaval at United in terms of staff/backroom staff. He would also need to look at a completely different level of player than he did at Everton, so he may now even have been able "re-use" any targets.
2. Perhaps he is of the opinion that players should start with a clean slate with him. He is giving himself time to properly assess the squad and give everyone a chance to impress - fair enough surely.
3. Having identified the need for midfielders, he gets one in and a very good one at that.
4. Yeah they missed out on a few (according to the papers) but what club in this window hasn't missed out on players they wanted?
5. He has managed to keep the squad together, for a while at least, this cannot be underestimated in it's importance.

homerjay2005

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

And we thought "silly season" was over

anybody who thought this, is off their heads. the january window will become a real talking point very quickly, in fact it already has.

transfers sell papers and envoke more talk than anything else apart from results.

Backstreet Moyes

My take on the transfer window is as follows. It seem's Moyes like said above is very detailed in his scouting methods before signing a player. As also said 3 months is not long enough to implement his plans. By next summer i expect better or hopefully by January.

My take on it is he wanted to make sure he was signing the right player to suit the club. So he wanted Fellaini and Baines who were players he knew well. He also went after Fabregas and Thiago who he would have known about without intensive scouting. I do believe Khedeira and Herrera bids were to try force the Fellaini move through. To be honest i am happy enough that we didn't panic buy someone like Herrera paying over the odds. In the long run it suit's the club if Moyes thoroughly looks over future signings and sign's the right players. I am not delighted with the transfer window but on Moyes part i am happy enough.

Blatter

De Gea should be tied down to a new 6 year contract asap imo.

Donnielighto

Blatter wrote: »

De Gea should be tied down to a new 6 year contract asap imo.

I should be tied to his missus.






Waaaaaaaaahey.

Nalz

master-t wrote: »

Also, we missed out on a host of attacking mids and strikers in our time. Lucas, Wesley, Hazard etc. Whose fault is that? You say Gill's? Did we demand Gill be sacked?

Spot on. Change inflicts expectancy, but mostly pessimism, uncertainty, uneasiness etc which usually leads to harsh hasty reactions. The internet then highlights this tenfold.

Questions need to answered and people are calling for heads to be rolled, but numerous questions were always there unanswered. It's just things were chucking along regardless, everything was all hunky-dory, we had piece of mind in the form of SAF and Mikey Phelan . The rare occasional uneasiness was resting in a dark liccle corner....raising it head and finding light in pubs and taverns across the British Isles on these rare occasions that droplets of poo poo hit the fan unexpectedly.

Lets hope we learn from these mistakes, why would there be reason to think we won't?

TheDoc wrote: »

no, I just don't like how you made an insult to a contributor. If you didn't mean it, it's your bad English, not mine. You've been quick to point out in previous debates how your a season ticket holder, and I was hoping your not one of those that feels your ticket entitles you to higher values or opinions. But you very clearly called him a aprt time fan, which I didn't appreciate.


I did, because he seems to be getting blasted by people based purely on facts and speculation. If he did horrendously poor work, it was be reviewed by the club and action taken. I'm not going to jump on a bloke in his few weeks on the job based on paper hearsay.

At the end of the day its about your expectations, my happy expectations were a CM, most notibly Fellaini, so I'm happy enough. You don't seem to have had any, you wanted us to go splurge cash all over the place as some form of intention. Which is fine, but thats your opinion, there is no right or wrong when it comes to expectations. Sure there might be a train of thought that Woodward was muck this window, but there is a pretty good counter arguement that there was alot of factors against him he could not deal with, and I'd argue Gill could either.

How is what I'm saying, any different your posts or those of some others like Mitch, who anytime you post it is a constant reference to "Sham this" "Joke that". We get it, you didn't like how things went and you thought we could do better. That's fine. What's not fine is you having to say it every twenty minutes, and then turn as if we factually were terrible in the window. With a basis and foundation of nothing.
There are plenty of lads here that have been happy with business. Yeah so it was a little last minute, to be expected, a pretty big transitional period. The point being we can argue until the next window over it.

There are some that think we should have spent about 200million and signed Thiago, Fabregas, Ozil, Ronaldo and spent 6 weeks putting Pele into cryogenic age reversal so he could in the squad.
And there are those of us that have a bit of understanding that it's a big transition, understand that the fans being calm and patient is going to be critical and that a CM was required, and that has been done. Something the revered Gill failed to do for over 6 years in fairness.

I am most probably the immovable object to your unstoppable force. I'm not simply going to accept this was a disaster window, when that opinion is being based of journalist rumours and in some parts unrealistic, or no expectations, on the part of fans.


I would have assumed that was obvious....

Lovely post

The_Kew_Tour

Blatter wrote: »

De Gea should be tied down to a new 6 year contract asap imo.

This.

and if somebody like Barca or Madrid want him then they are going to have top pay a hell of a lot.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

I was in favour of a move for Khedira but for that price it would have been lunacy, he should be about £15m all things considered.

So, less for Khedira than people wanted to pay for Baines? Its a strange world we live in.

onemorechance wrote: »

Agree mostly, except "Ferguson didn't do in six seasons, he signed a midfielder".

Powell, Kagawa, Jones, Pogba, Anderson, Hargreaves. All of these are central midfield players bought by SAF in the last 6 years.

Where do you even start with this one? Anderson and Hargreaves were not signed in the last six years (May 2007). Powell and Pogba were kids with about two performances between them, might as well include any kid who got a trial contract over the last few years.

Jones and Kagawa? They are not midfielders, but then you already know that.