Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Irish94 · 22-10-2013 3:13pm

When is the book on sale in Ireland?

Professional Griefer · 22-10-2013 3:17pm

Irish94 wrote: »

When is the book on sale in Ireland?

Thursday I think.

Red Crow · 22-10-2013 3:17pm

Delboy5 wrote: »

Vidic...

Miguel Delaney‏@MiguelDelaney22m
Many of the more interesting parts of the book are the little insights. And things like: 'Vidic wanted to enlist for the Kosovo conflict'

Miguel Delaney‏@MiguelDelaney16m
"Vidic was a dour, uncompromising sod. He was a proud Serb. In 2009, he came to see me to say he might be getting called up..."

Miguel Delaney‏@MiguelDelaney15m
'What do you mean, called up?' I said, alarmed. 'Kosovo. I am going,' he said. 'It's my duty.' He had the eyes for it."

Lost a bit of respect for Vidic so. Hopefully Adnan Januzaj doesn't hold grudges!

ronjo · 22-10-2013 3:17pm

Macca07 wrote: »

No, that would be just silly. Comparing Rooney to RvP when both were bought is ridiculous.

I compared 2 teams that finished top 2 in the league over the last 2 seasons. City bought 2 of their 4 strikers this summer, the other 2 the summer before that.

United bought RvP summer before last, Welbeck broke into the first team the season before that, and Chico was bought that summer as well. Rooney's cost was due to age, think his value is around the same now.

When Arsenal bought RvP as a 21 year old unknown, but his value rose considerably over the years. Rooney's value was so high due to him being English and the next big thing.

Ok how about Henry v Van Nistelrooy.

We should have expected RVN to be twice as good as Henry?

My point is that your argument now is something that could have been thrown at United for 20 years before Chelsea started outspending you.

Will I Amnt · 22-10-2013 3:22pm

ronjo wrote: »

My point is that your argument now is something that could have been thrown at United for 20 years before Chelsea started outspending you.

It was.

Your Airbag · 22-10-2013 3:23pm

More from the book.

Ronaldo forced to stay an extra year to spite Roman Calderon

'Bootgate' was the final nail for Beckham.

Keane called Ferguson out in front of United's players, which led to his departure.

Ferguson regarded Queiroz as his natural successor

On Dalgish and Liverpool:

"For Liverpool to return to the level of us and Manchester City was clearly going to require huge investment. Anfield has not moved on, Even the dressing rooms are the same as 20 years ago. My reading of their squad was that they needed eight players to come up to title-winning standard."Few of the signings made in Kenny's time haunted me at night. Stewart Downing cost £20million. He had talent but was not the bravest or quickest. £20million?"

On Rooney:

“In my final year, when he was left out a few times, and replaced in games, I felt he was struggling to get by people and had lost some of his old thrust. But he was capable of making extraordinary contributions. That pass to Van Persie in the win that secured the title for us was marvellous, as was his overhead kick against Man City. Those flashes guaranteed his profile. But as time wore on, I felt he struggled more and more to do it for 90 minutes, and he seemed to tire in games.”
Ferguson repeats that Rooney “asked away” and that Paul Stretford, his agent, conveyed the same message to David Gill, but the story appears almost to be cut short, with the former manager saying that “I left him to discuss his future with David Moyes, hoping to see many more great performances from him at Old Trafford.”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/sport/article3901231.ece

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/fcreviews/id/46?cc=3436

Macca07 · 22-10-2013 3:24pm

Your Airbag wrote: »

Save your breath mate. There are a few posters in this thread who are still sore over the transfer window and will use it as an excuse to spin stories to make Woodward and Moyes look incompetent.

We make an enquiry about Thiago and learn that he has committed to Bayern and told Pep so before the U21'S tournament, well this must mean Moyes doesn't rate him.

We don't bid for Ozil, we have two players who can play in his position and he is not a signing in a vital area, this must mean Moyes doesn't rate him and god knows who else.

They and their logic is in the minority thankfully. Moyes and Woodward didn't do amazing and I expected more but it was their first attempt at it, lets see how they progress going forward.

I think I will after his last comment...

v3ttel · 22-10-2013 3:24pm

Heading to the book launch in Dublin on November 8th, you get a signed copy on the night as part of the ticket fee......... the problem is all the best bits of the book are going to be all over the media and any United thread/forums for the next few weeks.

Macca07 · 22-10-2013 3:28pm

ronjo wrote: »

Ok how about Henry v Van Nistelrooy.

We should have expected RVN to be twice as good as Henry?

My point is that your argument now is something that could have been thrown at United for 20 years before Chelsea started outspending you.

When both players were bought, Ruud was twice as good as Henry. It took a couple of seasons for him to get up to that standard (BTW, Henry was one of the best strikers ever to play in the EPL).

And as it has been said already, that argument was thrown at United for many years.

Jimmy Iovine · 22-10-2013 3:30pm

Does anyone know how much the book will cost?

ronjo · 22-10-2013 3:44pm

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It was.

Macca07 wrote: »

When both players were bought, Ruud was twice as good as Henry. It took a couple of seasons for him to get up to that standard (BTW, Henry was one of the best strikers ever to play in the EPL).

And as it has been said already, that argument was thrown at United for many years.

And thats my point.
Does anyone other than MACCA07 think Man City strikers should be twice as good and Man Utd strikers because they cost twice as much???
Its complete nonsense

Devil08 · 22-10-2013 3:47pm

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Does anyone know how much the book will cost?

25quid but most shops offering discounts

Macca07 · 22-10-2013 3:48pm

ronjo wrote: »

And thats my point.
Does anyone other than MACCA07 think Man City strikers should be twice as good and Man Utd strikers because they cost twice as much???
Its complete nonsense

My main point wasn't if they City strikeforce is twice as good, but that when comparing both strikeforces, the cost has to come into it.

Pro. F · 22-10-2013 3:50pm

ronjo wrote: »

And thats my point.
Does anyone other than MACCA07 think Man City strikers should be twice as good and Man Utd strikers because they cost twice as much???
Its complete nonsense

What are you talking about? He's not saying that at all. He's just pointing out that City got poor value for money compared to United.

Mars Bar · 22-10-2013 3:50pm

Devil08 wrote: »

25quid but most shops offering discounts

I pre-ordered it for the Kindle Fire just there. Cost £11.

Devil08 · 22-10-2013 3:53pm

Mars Bar wrote: »

I pre-ordered it for the Kindle Fire just there. Cost £11.

18euro on ibooks, paperback seems most expensive

ericzeking · 22-10-2013 3:55pm

I think there are so many other factors other than ability that dictate cost that it's probably not a fair barometer....e.g. age, length of contract remaining, wealth of buying club, desperation of selling club, nationality etc etc

Like if RVP was 2 years younger with another year on his contract with the exact same ability he would have cost us twice as much.

Welbeck cost us nothing but without wishing to get into a debate we would get 15m plus for him if we were to sell.

ronjo · 22-10-2013 4:00pm

Macca07 wrote: »

The City v United strikeforce comparison is a good one, but you have to look at the cost...

RvP - £22.5 million
Rooney - £25.6 million
Chico - £8 million
Welbeck - youth team

City strikeforce

Negredo - £16.4 million
Aguero - £35 million
Dzeko - £27 million
Jovetic - £22 million

United's cost just over £56 million, City's was just over £100 million. Not including wages.

Now do you think that City's strikeforce is twice as good as United's... I thought not.

Pro. F wrote: »

What are you talking about? He's not saying that at all. He's just pointing out that City got poor value for money compared to United.

Ahem...

It was probably just a throwaway comments alright but..

Macca07 · 22-10-2013 4:11pm

ronjo wrote: »

Ahem...

It was probably just a throwaway comments alright but..

It was, my main point is that you have to take price into consideration when comparing strikeforces.

ronjo · 22-10-2013 4:14pm

Macca07 wrote: »

It was, my main point is that you have to take price into consideration when comparing strikeforces.

Ok fair enough.

I am sure I did it for years myself

Your Airbag · 22-10-2013 4:20pm

Fergie on Cristiano Ronaldo

"One night I was watching a movie, White Fang, the Jack London book about going down to Klondike in search of gold. That's what it must be like for a scout," he writes.
"You're standing watching a game on a Saturday morning and you see a George Best, a Ryan Giggs or a Bobby Charlton. That's what I felt that day in Lisbon. A revelation. That was the biggest surge of excitement, of anticipation, I experienced in football management."

On Roberto Mancini

Ferguson criticises his decision to keep forward Carlos Tevez on the books after the Argentine refused to come off the bench in the club's Champions League game at Bayern Munich.
"Taking him back showed desperation," Ferguson writes. "In terms of his prestige as a manager, he let himself down."

on LFC and the Anfield club's support for Luis Suarez after he was accused of racially abusing Patrice Evra

"Liverpool wore those T-shirts supporting Suarez, which I thought was a ridiculous thing for a club of Liverpool's stature. I felt we handled it well, mainly because we knew we were in the right.
"The FA asked us several times not to discuss it, but Liverpool would not leave the subject alone. David Gill would not have allowed any manager to handle it in that way."

On Pizzagate

"My recollection of that fabled incident is that when Ruud van Nistelrooy came into the dressing room, he complained that Arsene Wenger had been giving him stick as he left the pitch. Right away I rushed out to say to Arsene: 'You leave my players alone.' He was incensed at losing the game. That was the reason for his combative behaviour.
"The next thing I knew I had pizza all over me. They say it was Cesc Fabregas who threw the pizza at me but, to this day, I have no idea who the culprit was.
"That day created a division between us. The wound was not fully healed until the Champions League semi-final in 2009, when Arsene invited us into his room after the game and congratulated us."
The question which remains on everybody's lips: Was it a margherita Sir Alex?

Pro. F · 22-10-2013 4:23pm

ronjo wrote: »

Ahem...

It was probably just a throwaway comments alright but..

City's strike force not being remotely near twice as good as United's when they cost twice as much shows that City got poor value for money.

keane2097 · 22-10-2013 5:13pm

Pro. F wrote: »

City's strike force not being remotely near twice as good as United's when they cost twice as much shows that City got poor value for money.

It doesn't at all really.

Pro. F · 22-10-2013 5:14pm

keane2097 wrote: »

It doesn't at all really.

How so?

keane2097 · 22-10-2013 5:16pm

Pro. F wrote: »

How so?

Why doesn't it show that City got value for money but United got an incredibly good deal?

jameshayes · 22-10-2013 5:18pm

was CR7 just pranked?

Pro. F · 22-10-2013 5:18pm

keane2097 wrote: »

Why doesn't it show that City got value for money but United got an incredibly good deal?

Well, poor value for money compared to United who aren't anything special for getting value for money.

22-10-2013 5:31pm

Matt Cooper is quizing Miguel Delaney on The Last Word now about Fergie's book. Apparently in 05-06 at a United training camp in Portugal which was described as 'out of this world', Roy had problems with the air conditioning in the houses :pac:

Thatsfootball · 22-10-2013 5:31pm

Posted this during Fergie's time (I think), but would Moyes get more benefit in his style form a 3-5-2 allowing full-backs forward more?
Like say:
Evans Vidic Smalling
Rafael.....................Evra
.......Carrick Cleverley/Fellaini.....
.........Fellaini/Kagawa......
.......Rooney RVP.......

It'd allow wingers forward and play two up front at the same time

Robson99 · 22-10-2013 5:31pm

Rooney told Ferguson in 2010 to sign Mesut Ozil. Ferguson: "My reply was that it was none of his business who we should have gone for."

He takes the players word for Ronaldo and look how he turned out.Maybe he should have listened to Rooney on this occasion

5starpool · 22-10-2013 5:40pm

Pro. F wrote: »

City's strike force not being remotely near twice as good as United's when they cost twice as much shows that City got poor value for money.

Utd signed Rooney in 2003(ish) when it was a different market to today's one, despite the high fee for a teenager, and Welbeck came through the youth system. It's not exactly apples and apples you are comparing.

Danye · 22-10-2013 5:43pm

I'm disappointed in Ferguson. Why he choose to release a book now and speak negatively about players that are still at the club is baffling?

I thought his stance has always been what went on behind closed doors and In the confines of the dressing room was sacrosanct?

Julez · 22-10-2013 5:44pm

Danye wrote: »

I'm disappointed in Ferguson. Why he choose to release a book now and speak negatively about players that are still at the club is baffling?

I thought his stance has always been what went on behind closed doors and In the confines of the dressing room was sacrosanct?

Yeah but... kinda wanna know this stuff too!

Dont be at yourself · 22-10-2013 5:57pm

Thatsfootball wrote: »

Posted this during Fergie's time (I think), but would Moyes get more benefit in his style form a 3-5-2 allowing full-backs forward more?
Like say:
Evans Vidic Smalling
Rafael.....................Evra
.......Carrick Cleverley/Fellaini.....
.........Fellaini/Kagawa......
.......Rooney RVP.......

It'd allow wingers forward and play two up front at the same time

That makes sense, and there a decent parallels with the Liverpool squad: two great strikers and a decent playmaker, with attack-minded full backs. 3 at the back would also help accommodate the deteriorating Vidic or Rio, offering a safety net. The team would face the same problem as Liverpool though; a soft centre and the danger of getting over-run in midfield. Crucially, it also requires that the team takes the game to the opponent; it's not ideal for keeping it tight and playing reactive football.

22-10-2013 6:07pm

That summer I was drooling over the links made between Ozil and United and was a bit devastated when he went to Madrid. He was absolutely sublime to watch at the World Cup 2010, just as sublime to watch now in most of his performances so far for Arsenal in the EPL.

Summer 2010 would have been the time to get him in and it would have maybe went some way to merging the gap in quality between us and Barca in the 2011 CL final. This I know is something there is no possible way of knowing, but I do often lament our failure to learn and react to the 2 final losses/schoolings to Barcelona, the 2011 one in particular.

When we lost the EPL to Man City on goal difference, Sir Alex showed a desire for that never to happen again and was vocal about it, resulting in the purchase of who he viewed as the best goalscorer available - RVP. The result obviously paid off trumps.

I just wonder where was that same desire and determination after getting lead around the park in a ball chasing expedition by Barcelona on 2 occasions. Granted that Barcelona team will go down as one of the best in history, but Ferguson and the board point-blank refused to address the midfield along with the post-Ronaldo/superstar loss adequately, if really at all, in those few years.

For me the club are still feeling the effects of those decisions and inaction today. That is why I feel there are things wrong with the squad/club that pre-date the current coaching administration. I realise that one player in Mesuit Ozil would not have majorly changed a team, but he is only one in a line of players we've missed out on in the last few years who would have added that touch of class to our attacking possession and link-up play.

super_furry · 22-10-2013 6:10pm

Danye wrote: »

I'm disappointed in Ferguson. Why he choose to release a book now and speak negatively about players that are still at the club is baffling?

I thought his stance has always been what went on behind closed doors and In the confines of the dressing room was sacrosanct?

Well if nothing else it's taken the heat off Moyes for a couple of days.