Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

sea_monkey

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its really the million dollar question isn't it. Homer keeps saying Kagawa hasn't done anything for United, but how many times has Kagawa played in his best position for us? Once? Twice?

Personally I think that we can continue with Rooney doing his hustle and bustle act there and going nowhere, or we can try something different for a change, stick Kagawa in with Van Persie for six games in a row and see how we develop. Gods knows we couldn't be much worse than we have been lately.

or, you know, have kagawa behind rooney and rvp

Lord TSC

Rayne Wooney

Tomorrow night is the perfect chance to play some good football. We're at home and should put out an attacking team.


If it's negative again tomorrow, I'll be getting a little worried.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

I cannot see how people can say he has been poor considering the amount of game time he has got under Moyes in his best position. Kagawa needs to be played centrally and given a run of games. I bet he wouldnt go seven league games without a goal from play or an assist like Rooney has . Its the people on here claiming Rooney has been having a good season and dont see the need for change that baffle me.
Fergie also persisted in playing him on the left. He was wasted under fergie and Moyes is doing the same thing

It really is absurd that you choose to discount any football outside of the PL and goals scored from free kicks when judging Rooney's record this season. You pretend like they don't count, but of course they do.

He was pish on Saturday, but until that game he had been doing well for us.

Tomorrow night would be a perfect time to play Kagawa in his proper position and drop Rooney, but he won't solve the problems with the team.

Blatter

Kagawa played in the hole a fair few times last season actually, overall he did well when played there.

Everton away, Southampton away, Galatasaray at home, Fulham at home, Liverpool away, West Brom at home, Sunderland away. He played in the hole in all those games, probably a couple of more as well. Fergie actually used him a fair bit last season, he had an injury that kept him out for a while which people forget.

tallaghtmick

Blatter wrote: »

Kagawa played in the hole a fair few times last season actually, overall he did well when played there.

Everton away, Southampton away, Galatasaray at home, Fulham at home, Liverpool away, West Brom at home, Sunderland away. He played in the hole in all those games, probably a couple of more as well. Fergie actually used him a fair bit last season, he had an injury that kept him out for a while which people forget.

He looked so good before that injury

Red Crow

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Here's the link http://www.channel4.com/news/sir-alex-ferguson-fergie-manchester-united

Few questions in there he's not used to being asked.

It seemed to take him back a bit. Some questions certainly made him think.

I think he definitely wasn't prepared to be hit which such critical and stinging questions. He seemed unprepared for the interview. Great interview though.

Ferguson seemed very defensive of the Glazers. Don't like that at all but its to be expected considering that he probably preferred them to the previous ownership model.

Headshot

It quite disgusts me to this day his part in bringing them to our club and him defending them all the time

onemorechance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjBdSHEXac

Royal Legend

For all the glorification of the man, his reputation has been sullied and his integrity has taken a beating with this one.
All he was supposed to stand for (loyalty, keeping it in the dressing room etc) has been shown to be a sham. Apart from trophies and titles, Moyes does not have to live up to much else. Ferguson has shown himself to be a bitter man, a bully and someone with double standards and seems to have been either challenged by players who became successful or jealous of them.
I am also sure his publishers are wetting themselves with the adverse publicity, which should keep Alex the champagne socialist in good stead for quite a while.
Jon Snow ambushed him, but then again when the press has been afraid to ask the hard questions for the last decade, what does one expect.
Just goes to prove that every genius has a character flaw.

homerjay2005

Royal Legend wrote: »

For all the glorification of the man, his reputation has been sullied and his integrity has taken a beating with this one.

eh? absolutely nothing surprising in this book at all, there is nothing earth shattering in it at all.

Lennonist

Poor form from Ferguson after the career he has had and the easy ride that he generally got from the press, is he stuck for money or what?

Royal Legend

Royal Legend wrote: »

For all the glorification of the man, his reputation has been sullied and his integrity has taken a beating with this one.
All he was supposed to stand for (loyalty, keeping it in the dressing room etc) has been shown to be a sham. Apart from trophies and titles, Moyes does not have to live up to much else. Ferguson has shown himself to be a bitter man, a bully and someone with double standards and seems to have been either challenged by players who became successful or jealous of them.
I am also sure his publishers are wetting themselves with the adverse publicity, which should keep Alex the champagne socialist in good stead for quite a while.
Jon Snow ambushed him, but then again when the press has been afraid to ask the hard questions for the last decade, what does one expect.
Just goes to prove that every genius has a character flaw.

Ferguson was always a bully and let nobody stand in his way.

If he wasn't as ruthless Utd wouldn't have won near the haul they did.

The funny thing is Keane probably more in common with him than he'd like to admit to.

Dunphy on today fm in a few mins talking about Fergie for anyone interested.

ericzeking

From what I've seen from the book, the one thing that sticks out, and we knew this already, is his absolute ruthlessness no matter who the player was. To be successful he had to have control and didn't think twice about getting rid. Fans can sometimes be guilty of worshipping individual players but it is clear he had to deal with the big picture.
Even the Ronaldo one, he maintained control of the situation and didn't make himself or the club look weak.
I don't really think there'll be anything there that the players in question didn't know already and most of the relationships have been patched up since except maybe Keano who he had a pop at yesterday about things Roy has said more recently.
Should be a good read.

homerjay2005

Lennonist wrote: »

Poor form from Ferguson after the career he has had and the easy ride that he generally got from the press, is he stuck for money or what?

can you tell me, what exactly has he said that you didnt already know?

if i asked you yesterday morning what happened between himself and Keane, you could have written it yourself.

same goes for Beckham, RVN and others - we knew all this already.

i was very critical of Ferguson in the past 4 years, mainly due to his lack of action in midfield and our subsequent drop in football quality, but this is something i have no problem with.

bullvine

Correct me if I'm wrong but Kagawa should have played in the games that Rooney and RVP were injured for earlier in the season.

Lennonist

homerjay2005 wrote: »

can you tell me, what exactly has he said that you didnt already know?

if i asked you yesterday morning what happened between himself and Keane, you could have written it yourself.

same goes for Beckham, RVN and others - we knew all this already.

I think he could have taken his time a bit before coming out with his kiss and tell autobiography. It looks like he couldn't wait to cash in. For all his talk of loyalty, it looks like cash is king at the end of the day for Sir Alex.

Mitch Connor

Lennonist wrote: »

For all his talk of loyalty, it looks like cash is king at the end of the day for Sir Alex.

Seriously, the Rock of Gibralta crap and his defence of the Glazers hadn't point to that before the book?

bullvine

Spot on my Dunphy have to say. Always, amazes how he can talk so much sense sometimes.

Headshot

bullvine wrote: »

Spot on my Dunphy have to say. Always, amazes how he can talk so much sense sometimes.

i only caught the end of it

What was the summary of it?

Mezcita

homerjay2005 wrote: »

eh? absolutely nothing surprising in this book at all, there is nothing earth shattering in it at all.

Finish it already? That was quick!

homerjay2005

bullvine wrote: »

amazes how he can talk so much sense sometimes.

Dunphy talks about as much sense as a drunk man in Coppers at 4am on a sunday morning.

if he told me today was Wednesday, id go out and check the newspapers.

bucketybuck

Lennonist wrote: »

I think he could have taken his time a bit before coming out with his kiss and tell autobiography. It looks like he couldn't wait to cash in. For all his talk of loyalty, it looks like cash is king at the end of the day for Sir Alex.

Maybe he had held his tongue for 26 years.

Personally I see nothing wrong with Fergie releasing the book. Considering what he did for the club he certainly doesn't owe us anything. He lived and breathed the club for decades, I suspect his mentality now is that if he wants to say or do something then he is damn well going to do it, and couldn't care less what anybody thinks.

Besides, as already pointed out, there has been nothing said so far that we didn't already know, not a single thing.

bucketybuck

Mezcita wrote: »

Finish it already? That was quick!

Danger of the internet. I am pretty sure that I won't have to even read the book, everything of note in it is at some stage going to be a headline somewhere.

Your Airbag

Royal Legend wrote: »

For all the glorification of the man, his reputation has been sullied and his integrity has taken a beating with this one.
All he was supposed to stand for (loyalty, keeping it in the dressing room etc) has been shown to be a sham. Apart from trophies and titles, Moyes does not have to live up to much else. Ferguson has shown himself to be a bitter man, a bully and someone with double standards and seems to have been either challenged by players who became successful or jealous of them.
I am also sure his publishers are wetting themselves with the adverse publicity, which should keep Alex the champagne socialist in good stead for quite a while.
Jon Snow ambushed him, but then again when the press has been afraid to ask the hard questions for the last decade, what does one expect.
Just goes to prove that every genius has a character flaw.

His reputation has taking no beating and his loyalty was and is always to UTD, the book changes none of this. Anything that stood between UTD and success was quickly removed.

I don't think he has even been hard on the people he has talked about in the book. He said Beckham got to big for his boots and became too interested in the celebrity lifestyle, well he did. The Rooney talk isn't even bad. The press are going to take the smallest detail and blow it up. For me the book isn't half as cutting or insightful as it could have been, I think he held back.

As for Keane, his reaction is laughable. He talks about loyalty when he slated his own team mates on MUTV and slated many a player in his own book. Keane was an amazing player but as a person he is a total w*nker who lacks basic social interaction skills.

bullvine

Headshot wrote: »

i only caught the end of it

What was the summary of it?

Hes good pals with the FAI and could hurt Keanes chances of getting the ireland job.

Saying the biggest nonsense was he put so little in the book about Rock of Gilbraltar which has been such a huge effect on the club. The real reason Keane was giving the bullet was because he brought this up in the dressing room after the Mutv interview.

Dunphy also said hes criticized Richardson in the book and said why would you pick on a guy like that who is still playing for Fulham, let him get on with his career, its so irrelevant.

Also, said him going to Old Trafford is like Gay Byrne sitting in the Audience of the late late...

Mitch Connor

My overall take on the snippits I have read so far - most the people are still legends/heros/players I remember fondly regardless of what is being said.

We know Keane can be too outspoken and value his own opinion too highly, we have known that since 2002 and before. We basically knew the ending of his time at United - I will still remember him more for the header vs Juventus, for example, than any argument issues. A fantastic leader of our team.

Beckham could, and should, (imo) have been a legend up there with Giggs and Scholes - his relationship with Victoria did effect his time at United and his career in general (imo). He could have been a better player than he was, though he has had an amazing career. I don't rate him as highly as some on here, and the manner of his departure and how it was played as him being forced out rankles with me. Still, I have great respect for him.

Heard many a story about RVN being a tool towards the end of his time at United, including the League Cup final, but he was still a great player for us and that is how I will remember him. I think he could have handled himself better but at the same time the way Fergie treated him in the final phase of his time at United was wrong too.

There is wrong on both sides of each issue.

I don't revere Ferguson as a shining example of how to act in all situations. He has done many things with regards to United that I completely disagree with - but at the end of the day he is still a legend of our club, and I won't forget that, even if I am disappointed with some of the stuff that he seems to say in the book - and stuff he has ignored completely.

Cantona's Collars

The,"this is the one we put on a show in" Match Thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87148478#post87148478

stooge

To be fair, the interview was one of the rare times when Dunphy spoke well, didnt say something just to be controversial and didnt seem to lie.

The summary was that Ferguson should not have used the book to settle scores and should have had more respect for the players who made him successful (Keane/Beckham etc).

He admits that Ferguson stuck by Keane during the Saipan incident and that McCarthy calling the Quinn/staunton press conference put an end to any hopes of Keane returning.

He said that the Rock of Gibralter issue and the subsequent sale to the galzers only got 2 lines in the book but they could be considered the most controversial and noteworthy things to have happened since Ferguson's last autobiography.

The most important thing for me though was Dunphy slating Ferguson for claiming to be a socialist but at the same time supporting Blair and Brown in their war on Iraq.

I've a lot of respect for what Ferguson did for aberdeen/Utd in terms of football and achievements but as a man I don't think he's anything special.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

Anything that stood between UTD and success was quickly removed.

Rock of Gibralta, M&M, The Glazers and over half a billion and counting in money being sucked out of the club for no good reason.

Ferguson bears some responsibility for that - and it damaged United.

Cantona's Collars

stooge

I think a huge amount of people are fairly ignorant about the whole RoG/Magnier/Glazer issue due in part to the English media not wanting to make Ferguson look bad. They dont seem to connect the two issues and the fact that the clubs current debt is more or less a direct result of a personal issue between ferguson and Maginer.

bullvine

stooge wrote: »

I think a huge amount of people are fairly ignorant about the whole RoG/Magnier/Glazer issue due in part to the English media not wanting to make Ferguson look bad. They dont seem to connect the two issues and the fact that the clubs current debt is more or less a direct result of a personal issue between ferguson and Maginer.

This above is so important. A lot of people seem to forget this.

I also always wonder were the club would be now, had BKYB got their way in 99 and bought the club.

Mitch Connor

stooge wrote: »

I think a huge amount of people are fairly ignorant about the whole RoG/Magnier/Glazer issue due in part to the English media not wanting to make Ferguson look bad. They dont seem to connect the two issues and the fact that the clubs current debt is more or less a direct result of a personal issue between ferguson and Maginer.

In fairness - there is an element of it there, and the issues certainly didn't help the situation but we were put on the road to the Glazers many moons ago, when we first floated. Maybe M&M would have stood fast vs Glazer, but they were never in it for the good of United, they were investors, so there is a decent chance they would have sold to Glazer in the end regardless, maybe for more money - but I feel Glazer was always going to get his cashcow.

The RoG issue certainly did sully Fergie and United (the 99 questions) for those that paid enough attention, and I can see the argument you make - but I don't think it is all that clear cut. Would agree it was a contributing factor to where we are now.

stooge

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fairness - there is an element of it there, and the issues certainly didn't help the situation but we were put on the road to the Glazers many moons ago, when we first floated. Maybe M&M would have stood fast vs Glazer, but they were never in it for the good of United, they were investors, so there is a decent chance they would have sold to Glazer in the end regardless, maybe for more money - but I feel Glazer was always going to get his cashcow.

The RoG issue certainly did sully Fergie and United (the 99 questions) for those that paid enough attention, and I can see the argument you make - but I don't think it is all that clear cut. Would agree it was a contributing factor to where we are now.

I suppose on the other hand you could say the club wouldnt be where it is now in terms of reputation/titles/turnover if it were not for Ferguson.

Motivator

I find this whole situation laughable, for years Ferguson & Man Utd as a club were untouchable. In less than 6 months everything has changed, Ferguson (someone I've always despised) has decided to mouth off about his former players now simply because he's already insulted everyone else possible. He's a spineless git. The club itself has quickly become a laughing stock & teams are bullying Man Utd this season. This is something that didn't happen is 27 years under ferguson but in less than 10 games in the league Moyes has somehow turned an average title winning team into a gutless top 6 team.

It is great entertainment for anyone who is not a Utd fan. To listen to that imbecile Roy Keane ramble on about loyalty last night was cringeworthy. A man who slagged off playing & coaching staff on the eve of a World Cup & then walked out & who went on Utds in house television channel to get personal with players in terms of criticism. The man is the biggest hypocrite of all time. Like I said, in less than 6 months everything ferguson built over the last 27 years is being slowly ripped apart...and it couldn't be funnier.

sea_monkey

Motivator wrote: »

I find this whole situation laughable, for years Ferguson & Man Utd as a club were untouchable. In less than 6 months everything has changed, Ferguson (someone I've always despised) has decided to mouth off about his former players now simply because he's already insulted everyone else possible. He's a spineless git. The club itself has quickly become a laughing stock & teams are bullying Man Utd this season. This is something that didn't happen is 27 years under ferguson but in less than 10 games in the league Moyes has somehow turned an average title winning team into a gutless top 6 team.

It is great entertainment for anyone who is not a Utd fan. To listen to that imbecile Roy Keane ramble on about loyalty last night was cringeworthy. A man who slagged off playing & coaching staff on the eve of a World Cup & then walked out & who went on Utds in house television channel to get personal with players in terms of criticism. The man is the biggest hypocrite of all time. Like I said, in less than 6 months everything ferguson built over the last 27 years is being slowly ripped apart...and it couldn't be funnier.

they could be wearing big clown feet during matches, thatd be funnier.

thanks for stopping by.

Robson99

Motivator wrote: »

I find this whole situation laughable, for years Ferguson & Man Utd as a club were untouchable. In less than 6 months everything has changed, Ferguson (someone I've always despised) has decided to mouth off about his former players now simply because he's already insulted everyone else possible. He's a spineless git. The club itself has quickly become a laughing stock & teams are bullying Man Utd this season. This is something that didn't happen is 27 years under ferguson but in less than 10 games in the league Moyes has somehow turned an average title winning team into a gutless top 6 team.

It is great entertainment for anyone who is not a Utd fan. To listen to that imbecile Roy Keane ramble on about loyalty last night was cringeworthy. A man who slagged off playing & coaching staff on the eve of a World Cup & then walked out & who went on Utds in house television channel to get personal with players in terms of criticism. The man is the biggest hypocrite of all time. Like I said, in less than 6 months everything ferguson built over the last 27 years is being slowly ripped apart...and it couldn't be funnier.

The above muck doesnt even deserve a comment.

ericzeking

Jaysus one thing I will say is how the labelling of Rooney as a "slow learner" wasn't edited to something less offensive by MUFC when they were 'passing' the book amazes me.
Like he is a current player and SAF is a director.

Robson99

ericzeking wrote: »

Jaysus one thing I will say is how the labelling of Rooney as a "slow learner" wasn't edited to something less offensive by MUFC when they were 'passing' the book amazes me.
Like he is a current player and SAF is a director.

Maybe they think he wont pick up on it till hes 40:D

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

Jaysus one thing I will say is how the labelling of Rooney as a "slow learner" wasn't edited to something less offensive by MUFC when they were 'passing' the book amazes me.
Like he is a current player and SAF is a director.

They were probably delighted that is as bad as it got.

Ordinary man

What Ferguson managed to do with united since the premiership was near miraculous. He couldn't have done it just by bullying. I'm sure it wasn't as easy as some think to ditch players that he bought and turned into world class winners like keane,rvn,beckham,etc. He had to do what he thought needed to be done to keep the success going. No matter how ruthless a boss is, that couldn't be easy.

The rog episode hurt the club but not many would have let it go and forget about it. There was very little he could do about the glazers and for all we know he could hate them. But if he slates them who do you think gets the bullet. He has bust his ass to put united where they are and of course he wants to stay involved in the club as much as he can.

Never out of the top 3 in 20 odd years is something no manager will ever achieve again.

Mitch Connor

Considering how ruthless he was with some players that were at least top class - it perplexes me that our midfield issue got to where it is - with so much time and chances given to Anderson and Hargreaves in particular.

Leftist

Really selfish time to be releasing this book. he doesn't need the money and is just making things worse for the club.

Fenix

In fairness, when fit Hargreves was a fantastic player for us, and worth sticking with to see if the form could have been recaptured.

Anderson on the other hand...

Headshot

To this day I'm amazed how Anderson is still at the club, how does he do it?

Mitch Connor

Fenix wrote: »

In fairness, when fit Hargreves was a fantastic player for us, and worth sticking with to see if the form could have been recaptured.

Anderson on the other hand...

But this is the issue - he wasn't fit for 3 years. We should have replaced him in the squad. Had he come back, great, another option - but we shouldn't have been counting him amongst the planned CM numbers.

Same with Fletcher now.

Fenix

Hargreves was unlucky in that as soon as he made any progress, he had a setback, when a player has been as good as he was, it's hard to give up on him, and generally a good thing to show loyalty to the player, this is why Fletch is still around, purely loyalty from the club IMO, I don't think he will play another competitive game for MUFC.

Maximus Alexander

Fenix wrote: »

Hargreves was unlucky in that as soon as he made any progress, he had a setback, when a player has been as good as he was, it's hard to give up on him, and generally a good thing to show loyalty to the player, this is why Fletch is still around, purely loyalty from the club IMO, I don't think he will play another competitive game for MUFC.

I would have thought Fletch is still around because he is still under contract, so the club don't really have much choice. If they had renewed his contract since his illness, that would be showing loyalty. Although an odd sort of pointless loyalty since he seems unlikely to recover.