Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

user2011

dahat wrote: »

Ah here,finishing was por but another game we would have gotten 3/4,there is a point where it is being over critical,tonight we created alot and played fairly ok,flash back to saturday,improvement in my eyes.

Yes played ok and scored no goals?

Against a pretty ordinary Real S. side who were bigged up like they would trouble United. I thought they would give us a bit of a test when group came out but seeing their two games Meh and our chance conversion was even worse, I'm saying this with the purpose of creating confidence in the team they won't be going away with too much with this game.

Moyes said our scoring has been a problem in games we haven't dominated yet we still have the same at home in a game we dominated for the most part.

listermint

kryogen wrote: »

You have also been answered about the money but since you have just ignored any response and ploughed ahead repeating yourself you hardly expect people to try to reason with you on it?

You have no idea how the team would have fared in any other group, neither does anybody else. The squad improved this season with the addition of Fellaini, not exactly a shout it from the roof tops signing, but an undoubted improvement on the midfield options in the squad.

The squad is strong, the squad is full of quality and potential. Getting the best out of them is up to the manager, and individual players need to look at themselves also and wonder why they have been underperforming thus far. Investment is needed, and was given and more will have to be given due to years of neglect from the previous regime.

We need two quality midfielders still imo, Carrick can go for a few more years I think but wouldn't it be nice if he could be replaced while he is still at the club to provide relief etc

Why do you think I ignored any response? I didn't, I responded to anything previously but sure make your comment because you think it enhances anything you type afterwards.

I raised it as we were speaking about the rte panel and they raised it again.

I'm sure you knew that though.

nullzero

listermint wrote: »

Giles played at United and sure dunphy hates everything and everyone. But I have get your point.

I suppose cut back all the ****e talk and there's some legitimate questions behind the jazz.

All part of the drama of football really

Emao had us down as has beens thtee years ago, saying that City and Chelsea would be miles ahead of United for years to come. United need some substantial changes and could well end up in decline. However hearing pundits hammering coffin nails into the club always smacks to me of wanting to be able to say they were the first to forecast the demise of United.

listermint

n32 wrote: »

In all fairness nobody can answer that question with any certainty. We can only beat whoever is put in front of us and thus far we ve done what was asked of us. The performances havent been great but at least we ve got 7 from 9 without playing well. Leverkusen was a good result, SHakhtar away is a good point for anyone and we should have had 3 or 4 tonight.

Agreed, all speculation as such but isn't that what it's all about though :-)

n32

listermint wrote: »

Agreed, all speculation as such but isn't that what it's all about though :-)

Spot on!

listermint

nullzero wrote: »

Emao had us down as has beens thtee years ago, saying that City and Chelsea would be miles ahead of United for years to come. United need some substantial changes and could well end up in decline. However hearing pundits hammering coffin nails into the club always smacks to me of wanting to be able to say they were the first to forecast the demise of United.

Eamo is legitimately crazy though. Loves his own smell. :-)

nullzero

listermint wrote: »

Eamo is legitimately crazy though. Loves his own smell. :-)

Mr. Soundbite. Can't help liking the man though. Ronnie Whelan with his half scouse accent, not so much.

Rayne Wooney

Do people still listen to them?

How's their theory that German football is in decline working out?

yabadabado

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Anybody think the Fergie book will be available from 12pm on Kindle or will we have to wait until the morning?

Wondering the same,I have it ordered but there was no mention of when it would be transferred to my Kindle.

onemorechance

nullzero wrote: »

There's a midnight book burning in easons in cork

Ordinary man

I thought united played much better tonight but it seemed like there was a nervousness about a lot of the play. 1 good win could get them firing again.

RasTa

Would you start reading at midnight tonight? I'll be waiting for an illegal version as the kindle version is not 50% cheaper.

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

You would hardly expect him to be brilliant would you considering his lack of playing time with his teammates and having Giggs on the field (though Giggs did actually have a couple, a couple of good moments)

He was good, he had some sharp turns, should have had a couple of goals but for a lack of confidence imo which would come with games, and a couple of times he could and should have been played in but the player in possession took a shot instead (Rooney at least twice) he should have had an assist or two possibly also.

Bottom line, he is creative and retains possession well and we could do with that even if he was playing from the left until the last ten minutes

Lets call a spade a spade.

People have been making him out to be the bees knees.

He has been good, no more.

Some in here would have you thinking he is saviour after Jesus Christ.

He needs to prove that.

Ill be happy to see him turn into what some people suggest he is. No problem there.

Backstreet Moyes

Much improved display tonight. Bit disappointing to not score more but happy we created a few chances just didn't take them.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Some in here would have you thinking he is saviour after Jesus Christ.

The only people saying those words are those building strawmen.

Fact is, people just want Kagawa and Nani to get the same opportunities offered to Antonio Valencia. Valencia has been dirt poor for nearly two years now, yet probably has more gametime than Kagawa, Nani and Hernandez combined.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade.

People have been making him out to be the bees knees.

He has been good, no more.

Some in here would have you thinking he is saviour after Jesus Christ.

He needs to prove that.

Ill be happy to see him turn into what some people suggest he is. No problem there.

I didn't suggest he was brilliant though, I made a joke about the team playing well once again when he started

To expect him to be brilliant is a bit much

Liam O

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade.

People have been making him out to be the bees knees.

He has been good, no more.

Some in here would have you thinking he is saviour after Jesus Christ.

He needs to prove that.

Ill be happy to see him turn into what some people suggest he is. No problem there.

Bit hard to prove it when he's been played in like 3 games this season. He's better than Januzaj (though not much problem with him getting minutes I'm not sure he's ready to be a regular starter), better than Young, better than Valencia yet all these have been given a significant amount of time to prove themselves this season and he hasn't. He was dropped last season after scoring a hattrick ffs. I seen it said in here that Moyes said he didn't know much about him when he came in which is fairly scandalous and more annoying to me than any substitution or team selection so far.

keane2097

I don't think Rooney is up to much as a number ten to be honest.

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

The only people saying those words are those building strawmen.

Fact is, people just want Kagawa and Nani to get the same opportunities offered to Antonio Valencia. Valencia has been dirt poor for nearly two years now, yet probably has more gametime than Kagawa, Nani and Hernandez combined.

I would agree he deserves a chance no question.

But he has to show little more too.

user2011

How can he prove the Jesus Christ persona when he being played out wide?

Either RVP or Rooney drops for Kagawa too prove himself. Don't see either happening so there will be question marks over Kag's for ever.

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

I didn't suggest he was brilliant though, I made a joke about the team playing well once again when he started

To expect him to be brilliant is a bit much

Liam O wrote: »

Bit hard to prove it when he's been played in like 3 games this season. He's better than Januzaj (though not much problem with him getting minutes I'm not sure he's ready to be a regular starter), better than Young, better than Valencia yet all these have been given a significant amount of time to prove themselves this season and he hasn't. He was dropped last season after scoring a hattrick ffs. I seen it said in here that Moyes said he didn't know much about him when he came in which is fairly scandalous and more annoying to me than any substitution or team selection so far.

I think he deserves a fair crack.

I really hope Kagawa becomes a beast. I dont give dam about my opinions being wrong if he was to deliver.

But I just feel people think that Kagawa is just going to make United a far better team straight away are being unrealistic.

He needs to be given game time? Yes
Does he deserve a fair chance? Yes
Is he as good as people say? I think he very well could be
Does he need to up a gear when he gets a chance? Yes and here lies my opinion on situation as things stand.

Kerrydude1981

user2011 wrote: »

How can he prove the Jesus Christ persona when he being played out wide?

Either RVP or Rooney drops for Kagawa too prove himself. Don't see either happening so there will be question marks over Kag's for ever.

I still think there is a place for Kagawa in the team with RVP and Rooney also in the team.

Nani Rooney Kagawa all supporting RVP,all three well capable of rotating positions if needs be.

Things don't have to be so rigid.

jimjamcos

Valencia is God damn awful. He's what I'd imagine Usain Bolt would be like, if he ever got his wish to play for United. A fine athlete but Jesus, he has neither a football brain or the ability to go with one. The ONLY time he looks capable of actually beating a player is when a poor defender makes up his mind for him. His first option is always to slow down when getting possession...not the greatest trait for a winger.

RasTa

Neville was loving Kagawa tonight anyway. There was the typical nonsense questioning from Shreeves after the game, thought Rooney handled it well.

mewe

If Kagawa gets a run of games in the middle for us he could make an immense difference.

Rayne Wooney

In all honesty United looked far better tonight than in recent weeks and Kagawa was the catalyst for most of it, but I get the point people are making.


I think it's a case of shoehorning Rooney into the team now, and while he's capable of moments of brilliance, you'd have to wonder in the long run if it's better if we play a real number 10 in that role (ie Kagawa). I don't know, it could pay of big time but I could be wrong, but Rooney takes up the wages of two superstars in a team. Playing him left wing is even more pointless than playing Kagawa out there.

bucketybuck

There was one passage of play that really summed up my disappointment with this team currently.

It was late in the second half, Rooney and Kagawa broke well, covered half the field before a cross/pass was attmpted across the box to Ashley Young. The cross was deflected off a defender back out the field to the oncoming...nobody.

There was not one single United player following forward in support of that break. The ball bounced out into the middle of the field and the Sociodad player had all the time in the world to take it under control.

Paul Scholes or Roy Keane were probably turning in their retirement graves watching that, not one single midfielder even pushing forward past the halfway line, never mind trying to arrive in the box late and volley a knock down.

Broke my heart to see it.

OctavarIan

bucketybuck wrote: »

There was one passage of play that really summed up my disappointment with this team currently.

It was late in the second half, Rooney and Kagawa broke well, covered half the field before a cross/pass was attmpted across the box to Ashley Young. The cross was deflected off a defender back out the field to the oncoming...nobody.

There was not one single United player following forward in support of that break. The ball bounced out into the middle of the field and the Sociodad player had all the time in the world to take it under control.

Paul Scholes or Roy Keane were probably turning in their retirement graves watching that, not one single midfielder even pushing forward past the halfway line, never mind trying to arrive in the box late and volley a knock down.

Broke my heart to see it.

I think the Everton Fellaini would be good for that, hopefully he turns up soon. Carrick+Giggs isn't exactly the most mobile pairing.

Kerrydude1981

Is there really a need for out and out wingers?

Maximus Alexander

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Is there really a need for out and out wingers?

No, sure Evra and to a lesser extent Rafael did all the best winging today.

Kerrydude1981

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

No, sure Evra and to a lesser extent Rafael did all the best winging today.

Ya,just people keep saying Kagawa/Rooney cant play on the left,but if they are playing we'l say inside left they could surely have an influence on the game.

Like Arsenal don't play with out and out wingers,the three lads supporting Giroud seem to rotate positions,this is something I think Utd could do as well.

FutureGuy

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I still think there is a place for Kagawa in the team with RVP and Rooney also in the team.

Nani Rooney Kagawa all supporting RVP,all three well capable of rotating positions if needs be.

Things don't have to be so rigid.

That 4 could interchange position all day long and cause nightmares.

yabadabado

RasTa wrote: »

Would you start reading at midnight tonight? I'll be waiting for an illegal version as the kindle version is not 50% cheaper.

I would probably read it for an hour or 2 depending how good it is.
There propably wont be an illegal version out for a good while,books are usually slow to be on torrents sites.

yabadabado

a fella I know asked me this question today .
Would it have been better if Rooney had be sold to a foreign team early in the summer than being kept?
His argument was Rooney isn't a number 10 but is being played there,whereas if he was sold the fall out from that could have have been a few big name signings to calm the **** storm that would probably have happened.
If Rooney was sold ,Kagawa would take up his position or a number 10 be bought,along with a LW and an another CM .
The team would be more Moyes if he had got in 2 or 3 signing compared to just Fellaini.Would it be a more balanced team ?

Backstreet Moyes

I think the problem is the lack of creativity from midfield being honest forcing Rooney to drop too deep. We need a creative force in the centre to get the ball to Rooney further up the field. He is having to drop too deep and Kagawa would have to do the same. Considering the performance of our wingers maybe below would be an option or maybe not.

With Fellaini and Carrick just a little deeper than Kagawa. He can dribble and support Rooney through the centre and give Janjuaz a roaming role moving drifting around up top. Maybe it is a little too central just a thought the only way i can see too get the best out of Rooney but maybe Kagawa would be less effective from being a bit deeper.

DDG

Raf Vidic Smalling Evra

Fellaini

Carrick Kagawa

Janjuaz Rooney

RVP

onemorechance

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

No, sure Evra and to a lesser extent Rafael did all the best winging today.

Rafael has been the best winger at United for a couple of seasons now! :pac:

yabadabado

SAF book came through on the Kindle at 12.Update in the morning.

Danye

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Things don't have to be so rigid.

Spot on. No fluidity in our play.

SirDelboy18

One of Rooneys buddies Neil Ashton is after sticking it to Kagawa in the Mail.

Danye

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

One of Rooneys buddies Neil Ashton is after sticking it to Kagawa in the Mail.

Saying what??

SirDelboy18

Danye wrote: »

Saying what??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2474493/Shinji-Kagawa-chance-Manchester-United-fluffed-lines--Neil-Ashton.html

Then again it's the Mail so it's meant to be taken as tripe anyways.

v3ttel

Here is a two step plan to get us moving in the right direction.

1. Play Kagawa.
2. Profit!

Rayne Wooney

Rooney on form is one of the best strikers in the league if not the world, I just don't see him being a successful number 10 though.

He's not better than RVP so is played there at others expense, which some would argue has an adverse effect on the chances we create.

I think in the long run it's better to play Kagawa behind RVP.

Rooney's wages cost us the same as two superstars would, is he really worth that for United playing in the playmaker role? I'm not so sure.

user2011

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I still think there is a place for Kagawa in the team with RVP and Rooney also in the team.

Nani Rooney Kagawa all supporting RVP,all three well capable of rotating positions if needs be.

Things don't have to be so rigid.

I agree things don't have to be rigid, but counter it with how often has Rooney or Nani swapped with Kag's? Kags is the the one that need to be swapping not the one that need swapped?

He drifted in a few times tonight without anyone swapping with him, we got away with it tonight because Real S. were so bad, but at same time made things look congested.

keane2097

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think the problem is the lack of creativity from midfield being honest forcing Rooney to drop too deep. We need a creative force in the centre to get the ball to Rooney further up the field. He is having to drop too deep and Kagawa would have to do the same. Considering the performance of our wingers maybe below would be an option or maybe not.

With Fellaini and Carrick just a little deeper than Kagawa. He can dribble and support Rooney through the centre and give Janjuaz a roaming role moving drifting around up top. Maybe it is a little too central just a thought the only way i can see too get the best out of Rooney but maybe Kagawa would be less effective from being a bit deeper.

DDG

Raf Vidic Smalling Evra

Fellaini

Carrick Kagawa

Janjuaz Rooney

RVP

I think Rooney is bad at working in the tight spaces a number 10 typically operates in rather than a lack of creativity from deep lying midfielders that is the problem.

Kagawa takes the ball on 10 yards plus higher up the pitch than Rooney does when he plays as a number 10.

KombuchaMshroom

Nuts102 wrote: »

I think the problem is the lack of creativity from midfield being honest forcing Rooney to drop too deep. We need a creative force in the centre to get the ball to Rooney further up the field. He is having to drop too deep and Kagawa would have to do the same. Considering the performance of our wingers maybe below would be an option or maybe not.

With Fellaini and Carrick just a little deeper than Kagawa. He can dribble and support Rooney through the centre and give Janjuaz a roaming role moving drifting around up top. Maybe it is a little too central just a thought the only way i can see too get the best out of Rooney but maybe Kagawa would be less effective from being a bit deeper.

DDG

Raf Vidic Smalling Evra

Fellaini

Carrick Kagawa

Janjuaz Rooney

RVP

Pretty much agree with that line-up, id just slight nit pick it and change formation a fraction to more of a 4-2-3-1

Rafael---Vidic

---

Smalling

---

Evra

---

Carrick----Fellaini

---

---Januzaj----Rooney----Kagawa----

---

RVP

---

with the 3 behind Van Persie having freedom to move and interchange their positions.


I'm optimistic that tonight was the proper beginning to the David Moyes era.
Kagawa's performance and Moyes' comments after about him should hopefully indicate that this is the start of him becoming a permanent fixture in the team. Carrick looked an awful lot better too tonight.

Hopefully those 2 kick on now from tonight, and that should in turn help Fellaini settle a lot better. Admittedly Fellaini hasn't had a fantastic start, and I was one of his biggest advocaters before he came, but his critics to this point have been unfair. Making the step up to one of the biggest teams in the world is always going to come with a lot of pressure for a player and it will take time to settle, especially when you don't get a pre-season with your teammates. To make things a lot worse for Fellaini he has come in at a time when hardly anyone in the team is playing near their ability. How is a player in a defensive midfield role supposed to setlle well when the rest of the midfield around him is playing awful? I'm still adamant he was a vital signing for us, and hopefully now Carrick and Kagawa finding form can help him get to the level he is capable of.

Combine that midfield "nucleus" with giving Januzaj more game to improve upon the exceptional potential he has shown so far, and Rooney's resurgence and hopefully that will lead to the team playing some more entertaining football like we saw tonight, and help get RVP back on form too, and we could end up with a very exciting team.
On top of all that we would then still have Nani, Hernandez, Welbeck, Clev, even Valencia (I am one of his biggest critics but he has definitely shown signs of improvement past few weeks) all to mix it up when needed.

I'm cautiously optimistic about what I'm seeing lads and lasses, this is where our season begins.

Believe!!

yabadabado

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

Pretty much agree with that line-up, id just slight nit pick it and change formation a fraction to more of a 4-2-3-1

Rafael---Vidic

---

Smalling

---

Evra

---

Carrick----Fellaini

---

---Januzaj----Rooney----Kagawa----

---

RVP

---

I like the look of that line up.I think Fellaini or Carrick need to push on a little bit more ,there has been too much of a gap between midfield and strikers.I would like to see Fellaini be the one who pushes further on and leave Carrick to do his job,they seem to be too close together,nearly doing the same job so far.I think this will happen once they get used to playing with each other.

Pro. F

I thought Kagawa played well with some lovely bits of skill, just lacking the final ball or finish at times. But he drifted all over the pitch and it left the left side completely exposed. That won't work against any half decent PL team.

This plan of having Rooney and Kagawa drifting around and both filling in on the wing won't work imo. Neither of them have the inclination nor the attributes to play that position.

If we want Rooney and Kagawa playing together then RvP has to be dropped imo. And that means Chicharito getting even less game time. The imbalance in the squad is a cluster fúck at the moment.

KombuchaMshroom

yabadabado wrote: »

I like the look of that line up.I think Fellaini or Carrick need to push on a little bit more ,there has been too much of a gap between midfield and strikers.I would like to see Fellaini be the one who pushes further on and leave Carrick to do his job,they seem to be too close together,nearly doing the same job so far.I think this will happen once they get used to playing with each other.

Ya, hopefully they can form a partnership similar to that of Sandro and Dembele last season, where they both understood when one of them was joining in or creating an attack and looked to push forward the other stayed back to make sure the team isn't vulnerable on the counter.

Hulk Hands

yabadabado wrote: »

SAF book came through on the Kindle at 12.Update in the morning.

So you got it then? Still waiting on mine, pain in the hole