Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Your Airbag

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So you think 25million was a decent offer? followed by 31million a few weeks later and then, despite being told 40million was the figure Barcelona wanted, procrastinating to the point of doing nothing and let it fizzle away.

He either had no actual intention of getting Fabregas to United or had no clue how to conduct the transfer.

I think the first bid was a tester.

Do you actually think we bid twice for a player we didn't really want or that the deal was about to happen until, as you said Woodward deliberately fecked up the deal. Do you actually believe that?

What would be his reasons for doing that? He doesn't want UTD to sign good players? He had a deal with the glazers to pocket the money? Was Moyes in on this or did Woodward do it of his own accord? Was Lee Harvey Oswald in the room and are you Jim Coor?

Jesus Wept.

Mitch Connor

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Will that singing section be there at the Stoke match at the weekend?

Nope.

Was just a trial last night.

There are due to be more though - I don't know if games have been decided.

5starpool

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So you think 25million was a decent offer? followed by 31million a few weeks later and then, despite being told 40million was the figure Barcelona wanted, procrastinating to the point of doing nothing and let it fizzle away.

He either had no actual intention of getting Fabregas to United or had no clue how to conduct the transfer.

Sounds like Barcelona's own negotiating tactics.

Julez

Do we really need to get into this? We know Mitches stance on this, its been brought up a million times. Besides...

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I believe he made a balls of the Fabregas transfer

...its Mitch's opinion. Not stating fact, yes built on speculation, but its not completely unbelieveable. No Big deal.

I will say though, we all know Woodward is good commercially, and with business as big as United, why can't we have someone who takes care of the football side, contracts, transfers etc. (ie Director of Football) and someone who takes care of the commercial side (Woodward). Would make a lot of sense.

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

despite being told 40million was the figure Barcelona wanted,

Is this bit a fact?? I find it hard to believe.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

I think the first bid was a tester.

Do you actually think we bid twice for a player we didn't really want or that the deal was about to happen until, as you said Woodward deliberately fecked up the deal. Do you actually believe that?

What would be his reasons for doing that? He doesn't want UTD to sign good players? He had a deal with the glazers to pocket the money? Was Moyes in on this or did Woodward do it of his own accord? Was Lee Harvey Oswald in the room and are you Jim Coor?

Jesus Wept.

First bid as a teaser only makes sense when you go back with subsequent, realistic offers. We went back with a second 'teaser', and left it at that. Farcical.

I don't think Woodward intended to spend the money or wages required to get Fabregas, and the VERY public moves for him were pure PR. "Look, we tried to sign the best, but their club wouldn't sell....". United never pushed a realistic transfer fee for him. We were barely offering what they paid Arsenal for him.

At the end of the day, Woodward never made a realistic offer for Fabregas despite the massively public courting of him - I believe the reason for it is that he didn't want to sign him. If he did want to sign him he wouldn't have taken 1 month to make two bids there were both well short of anything realistic. The other option is that he thought 28million would get Fabregas - so on that on he would be an idiot that had no idea what he was doing. Which, in fairness, would tally with everything else that went on in the summer.

I think Moyes was told Ronaldo, Bale or Fabregas would be at United - even to the last week of the window (Moyes was coy when talking about Bale). And Woodward failed to deliver any of them. I don't think Moyes was in on it, I think Moyes was massively let down by United this summer, and has been put under more pressure than is fair as a result. This United squad needed serious strengthening, and Woodward failed to deliver it.

Fabregas was there to be bought.
Ronaldo was there to be bought.
Bale was an insanity that was never going to happen unless Madrid pulled out completely.

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

Is this bit a fact?? I find it hard to believe.

It isn't official fact, no.

Various people reporting on the deal say that 40million was the figure wanted.

Fabregas would have moved, but wouldn't put in a transfer request to force it. He didn't want United that badly - would have been happy to join if Barcelona indicated they didn't need him (by accepting the bid).
Barcelona would have been happy to sell at 40million, but were happy to keep Fabregas if that bid didn't come.

Mitch Connor

5starpool wrote: »

Sounds like Barcelona's own negotiating tactics.

Indeed - but Fabregas doesn't have Manchester DNA, so our negotiating position would be far weaker than theres. United can't bully clubs into accepting less. Hell, we paid 4million more than required for Fellaini out of stupidity! another feck up by United in the summer.

Your Airbag

Ok, most of those assumptions begin with I think as you supply no hard facts. Facts like Barca not wanting to sell as they said on numerous occasions and the player himself saying he didn't want to leave are left out. Lets just leave it there, we wont agree but I don't think your looking at the situation reasonably.

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

Fergie staying would have been a huge part of this deal from Ronnies point of view but don't let that stop you painting Woodward as a Buffoon.

You make it sound like we have Mr Bean doing out transfers. He made a balls of the Cesc deal apparently.

Can you elaborate on how exactly he fecked it up or did the person whom you heard it from not have any of those details?

are you related to Woodward or something? the general consensus amongest almost all United fans is that he is a buffoon as you call him. you seem to jump to his defence everytime he is mentioned on here.

nobody likes him, he is a liability to the club and apart from Bebe, the most embarrassing employee we have had at the club in recent years. he should go back to what he is good at, signing Mr Tayto and the like and leave the football side of things to people who know about it.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Ah jesus, we actually do something positive last night and there's still moaning about Woodward and transfers.

Given how hard good performances are to come by right now, can we not just take a day off the Woodward bashing?

well, seen as its the latest breaking "story" its only natural its going to be discussed. each week, various things come out that give foundation to what is reported by the press.

bucketybuck

v3ttel wrote: »

I think Moyes was told Ronaldo, Bale or Fabregas would be at United - even to the last week of the window (Moyes was coy when talking about Bale). And Woodward failed to deliver any of them. I don't think Moyes was in on it, I think Moyes was massively let down by United this summer, and has been put under more pressure than is fair as a result. This United squad needed serious strengthening, and Woodward failed to deliver it.

I think you are far too lenient on Moyes. Its my opinion that he had a far greater influence on the summer transfers than many believe.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

Ok, most of those assumptions begin with I think as you supply no hard facts. Facts like Barca not wanting to sell as they said on numerous occasions and the player himself saying he didn't want to leave are left out. Lets just leave it there, we wont agree but I don't think your looking at the situation reasonably.

Fair enough. We'll leave it there.

listermint

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think you are far too lenient on Moyes. Its my opinion that he had a far greater influence on the summer transfers than many believe.

How so, by saying he didnt want any ?? I dont understand.

All transfers of magnitude go by the board. Of whom ferguson is on.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think you are far too lenient on Moyes. Its my opinion that he had a far greater influence on the summer transfers than many believe.

I think he should have been pushing Woodward to act quicker, and that is on him, but the bid failures are on Woodward (with regards to Fabregas in particular, and more so according to rumour, Ronaldo).

Seemingly Moyes went cold on Thiago, and rejected Ozil - so those are on him.

Whether the cluster of enquiries in the last week (Di Rossi, Kheidra, Coentrao, Baines, Fellaini, Herrera, Modric) are panic from Moyes, Woodward or both I don't know.

Robson99

Good result last night although quality of opposition was piss poor. Even Giggs looked good in middle of the park which says it all. Jones and Evans look solid as a pair and along with Smalling who I rate highly will provide us the quality we need in that area for the years to come. Valencia played better than some people are giving him credit for. He started average enough but I thought he looked dangerous as the game went on.

Rooney worked hard and was unlucky not to have scored a couple. However I thought Kagawa played better when he was allowed the chance to play in the hole. His touch on the ball is much better than Rooneys. They did look good together when Rooney was pushed further up which I think is his best position. Unfortunately that would have him competing with RVP for a place.

I wonder how we would fair with Rooney playing beside either Carrick or Fellani in a mid field behind Adnan, Kags and Nani/Val. From what Ive seen Carrick and Fellani are too static when played together. We looked more balanced with Giggs there last nite. Surely Rooney would be a better option than Giggs in that position. Its just a thought

Carr/Fell Rooney

Nani/Val Kags Adnan

Rvp

Oregano_State

homerjay2005 wrote: »

are you related to Woodward or something? the general consensus amongest almost all United fans is that he is a buffoon as you call him. you seem to jump to his defence everytime he is mentioned on here.

nobody likes him, he is a liability to the club and apart from Bebe, the most embarrassing employee we have had at the club in recent years. he should go back to what he is good at, signing Mr Tayto and the like and leave the football side of things to people who know about it.



well, seen as its the latest breaking "story" its only natural its going to be discussed. each week, various things come out that give foundation to what is reported by the press.

Speak for yourself dude. I don't agree with any of your points, especially the first paragraph.

PhlegmyMoses

Oregano_State wrote: »

Speak for yourself dude. I don't agree with any of your points, especially the first paragraph.

Yup, I'm a United fan and I don't think he's a buffoon. It's cool though, snap opinions based off one transfer window and a 12 games is all the rage.

chainsawman

Was very pleased with Chico workrate and his contributions, Also with Kagawa , he performed beautifully with his skills. Gave me a awe at times. Pleased with everyone, Johnny Evans was fantastic too, will be hard for Rio to come back in place of Evans.
De Gea is getting bigger everytime i see him. At first he was bit thin and easily take advantage by the bullies, not anymore, last night he was calm when it comes to the corner and the free kicks.

PhlegmyMoses

listermint wrote: »

How so, by saying he didnt want any ?? I dont understand.

All transfers of magnitude go by the board. Of whom ferguson is on.

Really? So, in your opinion, the board of directors, consisting of Fergie and Charlton and the like, get final veto on what players we buy? So in essence, we have multiple directors of football? Anything to back this up?

Fergie praised the Glazers and David Gill for their lack of interference in the football side of things and is a major advocate of letting the manager do what he needs to. Charlton is also on the board and would have minimal imput on transfer dealings as well. Why do you think that this has changed all of a sudden?

Do you reckon they run sponsorship deals past Fergie and Charlton as well?

homerjay2005

Oregano_State wrote: »

Speak for yourself dude. I don't agree with any of your points, especially the first paragraph.

go on then, tell us all what he has done that you support him or gives you the impression he is doing such a good job since Gill left?

this should be interesting.

magnumbud

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Yup, I'm a United fan and I don't think he's a buffoon. It's cool though, snap opinions based off one transfer window and a 12 games is all the rage.

but some people didnt want them in the first place (note the sarcasm)

basillarkin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Gills dash to Madrid after the fergie retirement was keep the Ronaldo deal in place.

Basic deal had been agreed, along with contract.

Woodward tried to renegotiate it, is one of the stories I have heard.

And yeah, I believe he made a balls of the Fabregas transfer, either deliberately or cause he didn't know what he was doing. Our approach to that was farcical.

He had Moyes believe one of Ronaldo, Fabregas or Bale would be at United and he failed on all 3.

Lol, any source for this? Besides one of the stories I heard, I was talking to a lad down the pub the other day who heard from his brother mate who works in old Trafford that Utd are millions in debt and that Fab and Ron have no intention of leaving 2 of the worlds biggest clubs to go to the north of England.

Backstreet Moyes

Do people think Moyes is going to phase out Vidic and Ferdinand and ease Jones, Evans and Smalling into the starting 11 earlier than i thought anyway. Still think Vidic should be first choice but glad to see the younger players playing.

bucketybuck

listermint wrote: »

How so, by saying he didnt want any ?? I dont understand.

It is my opinion, based on various things over the summer, that David Moyes takes full control of scouting and identifying players. Take for example the article about the room he had at Everton filled with the details of hundreds of scouted players.

There was a story that United had scouted Thiago for two years and had prepared a bid, but that Moyes stopped the bid due to the fact the he himself had not scouted the player and thus did not want a player he had not assessed. Note that this is not to say he didn't rate Thiago, but he would not buy any player he had not personally scouted.

I believe that Moyes takes this level of control to all aspects of transfer dealings. So Moyes vetoed the Thiago deal. He may also be the reason we didn't even bid for Felliani until the end of the window, and why we seemed to have no other options when we could not get Fabregas.

chainsawman

Nuts102 wrote: »

Do people think Moyes is going to phase out Vidic and Ferdinand and ease Jones, Evans and Smalling into the starting 11 earlier than i thought anyway. Still think Vidic should be first choice but glad to see the younger players playing.

I think Vidic is still important part of the squad, maybe in number one spot to Evans, Smalling and Jones, Rio is down the bottom, he is getting bit slow, the injuries and the age had caught up with him. Nice to have five central backs fighting for two spot, that is a luxury for any clubs to have. That is my two cent worth.

listermint

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Really? So, in your opinion, the board of directors, consisting of Fergie and Charlton and the like, get final veto on what players we buy? So in essence, we have multiple directors of football? Anything to back this up?

Fergie praised the Glazers and David Gill for their lack of interference in the football side of things and is a major advocate of letting the manager do what he needs to. Charlton is also on the board and would have minimal imput on transfer dealings as well. Why do you think that this has changed all of a sudden?

Do you reckon they run sponsorship deals past Fergie and Charlton as well?

I would imagine any spending of millions of dollars hes discussed at board level in depth. That is how any business is run. This has never changed, whatever Fergie said previously.

Of course sponsorship deals are discussed at board level also. That is what boards of directors are for. Have you worked in private industry ? No is saying they have Veto but their input is always taken into account. Clubs cant just go blowing 40 Million without the board of directors having a say.

Maximus Alexander

Every time I see Evans play I'm surprised all over again by how good he is. He has turned into a fantastic center back. I didn't have any time for him a couple of seasons ago, but how wrong was I.

chainsawman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Every time I see Evans play I'm surprised all over again by how good he is. He has turned into a fantastic center back. I didn't have any time for him a couple of seasons ago, but how wrong was I.

Agreed... I thought he would not be good enough in couple years ago. Fergie had faith in him and proved everybody who criticize him including me wrong.

Backstreet Moyes

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Every time I see Evans play I'm surprised all over again by how good he is. He has turned into a fantastic center back. I didn't have any time for him a couple of seasons ago, but how wrong was I.

His reading of the game and his distribution coming out of defense is very good. In the air he is still not excellent but he has improved a good bit lately. His performances the last two seasons have been very good. It still amazes me when people talk about Jones and Smalling as the future none are near Evans level right now anyway.

Maximus Alexander

Nuts102 wrote: »

His reading of the game and his distribution coming out of defense is very good. In the air he is still not excellent but he has improved a good bit lately. His performances the last two seasons have been very good. It still amazes me when people talk about Jones and Smalling as the future none are near Evans level right now anyway.

Nail on the head. I think that's what impresses the most, some of the runs and interceptions he makes are phenomenal.

tallaghtmick

We all know why Evans is so good the last few seasons.....his Wife!!!!! dammit if I woke to her every day id be breaking up forwards left right and centre!

PhlegmyMoses

listermint wrote: »

I would imagine any spending of millions of dollars hes discussed at board level in depth. That is how any business is run. This has never changed, whatever Fergie said previously.

Of course sponsorship deals are discussed at board level also. That is what boards of directors are for. Have you worked in private industry ? No is saying they have Veto but their input is always taken into account. Clubs cant just go blowing 40 Million without the board of directors having a say.

The United board is there as a sanity check only when it comes to player acquisitions. They are like the President of Ireland to the manager's Taoiseach. My gripe is with your mention of Fergie specifically as he would have backed Moyes to the hilt and would be a major advocate of the laissez faire approach. He would also have nothing to do with how much the club was willing to pay for players. That would be down to the money men and Ed Woodward.

onemorechance

Nuts102 wrote: »

His reading of the game and his distribution coming out of defense is very good. In the air he is still not excellent but he has improved a good bit lately. His performances the last two seasons have been very good. It still amazes me when people talk about Jones and Smalling as the future none are near Evans level right now anyway.

Taking into account their frequent injuries of late, Rio's age, a couple of mistakes from Vidic, I'd almost go as far as to say that Evans is the best CB at the club right now. :pac:

Jones for sure hasn't shown himself to be as good as Evans at CB, and Smalling simply hasn't played there as often to show he can be as consistent as Evans.

Vidic and Evans should be the starting CB's when fit.

Pro. F

Evans is still muck in the air and quite rash. Although I could forgive the rashness for now, descriptions of him being great at reading the game are overly generous imo. Of the three young pretenders he has by far been given the longest runs of starts and he is still making the same mistakes. He was a liability last seaaon, I don't know how people can overlook that.

Maximus Alexander

I don't think he makes any more mistakes than Rio and Vidic do lately. Possibly less to be honest.

Mitch Connor

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Yup, I'm a United fan and I don't think he's a buffoon. It's cool though, snap opinions based off one transfer window and a 12 games is all the rage.

I don't think he is a buffoon either - he is a brilliant business man.

I do think he was complete and utterly out of his depth/comfort zone in the summer and failed to get the job done.

He will, hopefully, learn from his/Uniteds mistakes in the summer and we'll be stronger in subsequent windows.

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

He was a liability last seaaon, I don't know how people can overlook that.

I don't overlook it, I simply (and completely) disagree with it.

Timmyctc

Saw these comments floating around FB, does anyone know if these are real or just plain made up?

Wayne Rooney on Sir Alex Ferguson's comments : "I've not seen him (Ferguson) since he retired.

"That's his opinion. But I would like to thank him for finally admitting I didn't hand in a transfer request. I'm really enjoying working for David Moyes. I'm happy under the new management, I'm working to get results under David Moyes and that's the main thing for me."

ericzeking

Timmyctc wrote: »

Saw these comments floating around FB, does anyone know if these are real or just plain made up?

Direct quote of his interview on Sky....I switched to sky at half time for some feel good coverage!

Vic Vinegar

Timmyctc wrote: »

Saw these comments floating around FB, does anyone know if these are real or just plain made up?

He said that in the post match interview.

Timmyctc

ericzeking wrote: »

Direct quote of his interview on Sky....I switched to sky at half time for some feel good coverage!

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

He said that in the post match interview.

Cheerios xoxo.

the mail have a massive spread on how many times he scratched his face during the interview... some top notch journalism there.

Vic Vinegar

Part of post match presser with Moyes. Full of praise for Rooney & Kagawa

Here

Can't embed it so click the link. (from The Guardian website)

Mitch Connor

Its not quite what he said. The words in that quote are more pointed than what Rooney actually said.

He never said:

But I would like to thank him for finally admitting I didn't hand in a transfer request

What he said was more like:

I am thankful for him for correcting (or confirming, can't remember which word was used) that I didn't hand in a transfer request.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

are you related to Woodward or something? the general consensus amongest almost all United fans is that he is a buffoon as you call him. you seem to jump to his defence everytime he is mentioned on here.

nobody likes him, he is a liability to the club and apart from Bebe, the most embarrassing employee we have had at the club in recent years. he should go back to what he is good at, signing Mr Tayto and the like and leave the football side of things to people who know about it.

No I'm not related. I usually jump to his defence when people start making stuff up or talking about the "I heard from me mate" stories like they were fact but am more than happy to listen to facts about his failing, unfortunatley you have supplied none. I don't think Moyes or Woodward had a spectacular window by any means, that doesn't mean we should have to listen to garbage that gets written about them.

From the responses to your post its quite clear that you are not in the majority regarding Woodward rather you and Mitch are the main culprits and are still throwing your toys out of the pram when it comes to the transfer window and bashing him childishly at every turn when you know nothing about what actually took place in UTD HQ besides what you read in the papers or heard from your "sources/mates".

Thankfully most fans here are able to look at it objectively. We don't know what exactly happened in the UTD offices over the summer and we never will. We don't know if Moyes had more control than Woodward or did the Glazers even have the final say. We don't know if Moyes pulled the plug on some deals, we simply dont know.

What we do know is Barca said at a minimum of two times that they didn't want to sell Fabregas. We know the player himself said that he didn't want to leave in the first press conference he attended over the summer. We know Thiago had agreed before the U21's to follow Pep to Bayern.

Forget all that though, according to Mitch Moyes deliberately "fecked up" the deal. According to you Moyes doesn't rate Thiago and Woodward is only good at signing "Mr Tayto" and other various insulting guesswork.

For anyone who doesn't know about what Homer means when he refers to Mr Tayto, UTD signed a deal with a Malaysian crisp firm called MR Potato. One of the 32 companies listed as sponsors of the club giving us a commercial revenue what is now approaching an astonishing £130million a year and will only continue to rise. No wonder United recently became the first sports team in the world to be valued at $3BILLION.

There where many new sponsors signed up at the end of Fergie and Gills reign but too but we won't hear the same personal and silly jokes leveled at them.

Oh yeah and Moyes and Woodward did actually sign a CM and got Rooney, Nani and Januzaj to sign new deals.

Timmyctc

Your Airbag wrote: »

Woodward post

Think Mitch actually disagreed with the buffoon tag too. But yeha other than that. You go glen coco

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

From the responses to your post .

what responses? i am still waiting to see why people think he is doing a good job at being CE of this club, since Gil left and nobody replied.

do you have any?

i dont give a boll*x about sponsorship deals, when the football is gone to s*it, do you?

Timmyctc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what responses? i am still waiting to see why people think he is doing a good job at being CE of this club, since Gil left and nobody replied.

do you have any?

i dont give a boll*x about sponsorship deals, when the football is gone to s*it, do you?

I'm pretty sure that the Championship winning team from last year being unable to beat mid table fodder is not the fault of our CE tbh.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what responses? i am still waiting to see why people think he is doing a good job at being CE of this club, since Gil left and nobody replied.

do you have any?

i dont give a boll*x about sponsorship deals, when the football is gone to s*it, do you?

The responses to you saying you were in the majority on Woodward. I think "speak for yourself" was the first response supported by a few thanks, meaning they agree.

Yeah I listed a lot of reasons but you again skip over them, re-read my post, see the facts about what Barca and Cesc and Thiago said in relation to those deals not happpening.

See the getting Rooney, Nani and Januzaj to sign new contracts.

Sponsorship deals are an essential part of any football club whether you like it or not. See the 130m and rising brought in from these deals both under Gill/ Fergie and Woowards/Moyes reign.

You seem to pick one part of a post to reply to often, do you finish reading them out at all?

Can I ask you why these Sponsorships deals are such a sore point for you? all summer before we even kicked a ball you were bringing them up as deals like this have been happening for years. The only recent summer where we actually signed a CMF seems to be the one that has seen you most irate.

Your Airbag

Timmyctc wrote: »

Think Mitch actually disagreed with the buffoon tag too. But yeha other than that. You go glen coco

Yeah that was rash of me. Removed from the post.

Nalz

Still at it! YAY