Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

ericzeking

Trilla wrote: »

Still at it! YAY

Bad Result for United- Sack Moyes

Good result for United- Eh Ed Woodward is a clown in anyway......

DARK-KNIGHT

Trilla wrote: »

Still at it! YAY

****ing pathetic reading here tge last while and to think i honestly thought most of those arguing cared about our club or knew anything about the game

Nalz

Changing it up a bit if that's okay

Anyone watching the guys on loan? How's Henriquez doing?

magnumbud

Trilla wrote: »

Changing it up a bit if that's okay

Anyone watching the guys on loan? How's Henriquez doing?

wiki tells me he has played 5 scored 4

Mitch Connor

What I think is a good blog on Moyes start at United.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/23/david-moyes-manchester-united-bad-start?CMP=twt_gu

Like the last line:

there are only three differences between this season's United and last: a player signed by David Moyes, men employed by David Moyes and David Moyes.

aperture_nuig

Trilla wrote: »

Changing it up a bit if that's okay

Anyone watching the guys on loan? How's Henriquez doing?

Somebody (Mitch?) posted a video of his last match (scored 2) a few pages back. I'm on the phone so I can't dig it out.

magnumbud

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What I think is a good blog on Moyes start at United.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/23/david-moyes-manchester-united-bad-start?CMP=twt_gu

Like the last line:

players who were key getting old, players who are not that good getting found out, much tougher start

Rayne Wooney

Fabregas is priceless to United, I'll never get that first offer we made.

You can harp on about that's how business works but I even felt a little insulted by that offer and I support United like imagine what they were thinking.

Mitch Connor

magnumbud wrote: »

players who were key getting old, players who are not that good getting found out, much tougher start

Players getting older isn't an issue, imo, apart from Giggs and Rio - no one else is too old.

players who are not that good getting found out - Fergie did grand in the league with the last year - so the difference is Moyes/Staff and the training, tactics and prep.

Much tougher start - Terrible vs West Brom, poor against Southampton and not exactly brilliant in victory vs Palace. Tough start but in the far more manageable games we haven't performed either. So the tougher start is just an excuse really.

kryogen

Hernandez looked very unhappy and frustrated coming off last night, didn't acknowledge the crowd that I saw either but maybe he did and I missed it? I fear for his future at the club but would obviously wish him well wherever he goes.

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

Hernandez looked very unhappy and frustrated coming off last night, didn't acknowledge the crowd that I saw either but maybe he did and I missed it? I fear for his future at the club but would obviously wish him well wherever he goes.

Could be pissed off he didnt score, there was nothing for him there bar the disallowed goal.

Rayne Wooney

kryogen wrote: »

Hernandez looked very unhappy and frustrated coming off last night, didn't acknowledge the crowd that I saw either but maybe he did and I missed it? I fear for his future at the club but would obviously wish him well wherever he goes.

He had 0 shots on goal and was a victim of Rooney being played as the creative link, he knows himself that given an opening he'll score, it must be frustrating finally getting his chance and not getting any service.

Can blame Valencia for the lack of supply as well but Moyes picked him with Nani and Jan on the bench.

ElChe32

Kagawa's delivery was great last night, Valencia please take note!

Al Capwned

Happy with the win and the improved performance last night albeit against relatively poor opposition, but would liked to see more than just the one goal. (Wouldn't we all)

Especially delighted with the clean sheet, been too long since the last one against Liverpool

ericzeking

Jesus I'm sick of hearing the backroom staff argument, every manager brings his own staff, it's par for the course and judging by the interviews the coaches he let go have done since they left I'm not surprised he got rid.

It was probably well known in the game that Rene liked himself a bit and maybe Moyes didn't want to be dealing with that, a good coach yes, let him deal with younger players but maybe Moyes didn't want to be listening to him day in day out, I mean the guy was taking credit for Ronaldos vast improvements a few weeks back...
Mike Phelen may have been seen as too close to Fergie given that Fergie is still very close himself.
The Steele one I was a bit worried over but his comments about DDG the other week weren't particularly pleasant and DDG has looked very good this season, it's not like Chris Woods is a nobody.
Moyes has kept Swire and Strudwick and more, he kept who he wanted and who he felt he would have the best chance of doing the job justice with.

ericzeking

kryogen wrote: »

Hernandez looked very unhappy and frustrated coming off last night, didn't acknowledge the crowd that I saw either but maybe he did and I missed it? I fear for his future at the club but would obviously wish him well wherever he goes.

Was the same in the last game he started and was taken off, he looked gutted. He's probably just so frustrated at missing his chance to stake a claim.
Unfortunately, much and all as I love him, he's probably best used as a supersub, I think Moyes could use him better in this capacity as he is either not brought on or brought on too late...there have been plenty games when we needed a goal.

Pro. F

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I don't think he makes any more mistakes than Rio and Vidic do lately. Possibly less to be honest.

Rio has been getting steadily worse with age so I'll give you him, but I'd still trust Vidic to cut out the mistakes far more than Evans. People were writing off Vidic last season after some difficulties early on, but when he came back after his injury he transformed the defence and was excellent.

I'm not saying that Evans can't become a quality centre back, but he still has a long way to go despite having gotten a lot of regular starts over the last two years.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

He had 0 shots on goal and was a victim of Rooney being played as the creative link, he knows himself that given an opening he'll score, it must be frustrating finally getting his chance and not getting any service.

Can blame Valencia for the lack of supply as well but Moyes picked him with Nani and Jan on the bench.

Rooney and Hernandez have played and linked up excellently together in the past. This theory that Rooney at number 10 is the problem is wrong.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

Rio has been getting steadily worse with age so I'll give you him, but I'd still trust Vidic to cut out the mistakes far more than Evans. People were writing off Vidic last season after some difficulties early on, but when he came back after his injury he transformed the defence and was excellent.

I'm not saying that Evans can't become a quality centre back, but he still has a long way to go despite having gotten a lot of regular starts over the last two years.

I'm far from writing Vidic off, I still think he's an excellent player. But I think it is unfair to ignore the errors which have crept into his game, while dismissing the huge strides Evans has made in the last couple of seasons.

There was a time when I dreaded to see his name on the team sheet, but not so anymore, far from it. I think if he became a starter ahead of Rio, by the end of next season you'd have a defender who would get into any team.

Mikeyt086

kryogen wrote: »

Hernandez looked very unhappy and frustrated coming off last night, didn't acknowledge the crowd that I saw either but maybe he did and I missed it? I fear for his future at the club but would obviously wish him well wherever he goes.

Here's the thing. I love Javier Hernandez. Borderline gay at times (although there is nothing wrong with that, it's odd considering I am not a gay man).

However, if he feels he should be the #1 striker at a big club, he's going to have to leave. I honestly don't think he is good enough all-round to be a success at a really top club, in a role different to what he has with us.

Chicharito is a predator, he sniffs out chances and gets his arse on the end of every loose ball. He thrives in a team where he has nothing to do but be there in the box and let his instincts get him goals. You can't build a team around Javier Hernadez, you need creativity all around him, wingers consistently beating their man and whipping in crosses, and midfielders who will look to slide him in behind or over the top.

His play outside the box has improved greatly since he joined, but he will never be great at passing or link up play. Last night there were numerous occasions where a ball in behind to Kagawa or Rooney with a first touch would have made a chance, but his first reaction was to control and go back to Giggs or Carrick, which he does very often.

His most effective role is off the bench. From there he provides something different to what the defenders have been facing, lightning pace, and real desire to have an impact. It's sad to see him have restricted minutes, because everyone loves him and he loves the club, but really there isn't another option.

Pro. F

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm far from writing Vidic off, I still think he's an excellent player. But I think it is unfair to ignore the errors which have crept into his game, while dismissing the huge strides Evans has made in the last couple of seasons.

There was a time when I dreaded to see his name on the team sheet, but not so anymore, far from it. I think if he became a starter ahead of Rio, by the end of next season you'd have a defender who would get into any team.

I don't agree that errors have crept into Vidic's game as if there has been some sort of significant change. He had a tiny bit of poor form at the start of last season and a bit more at the start of this (which is understandable given all that's been going on). Those are just minor blips in form.

Evans' mistakes though he has been making consistently over the last few years.

They've all made mistakes this season, but Evans' are far more likely to continue than Vidic's imo.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't agree that errors have crept into Vidic's game as if there has been some sort of significant change. He had a tiny bit of poor form at the start of last season and a bit more at the start of this (which is understandable given all that's been going on). Those are just minor blips in form.

Evans' mistakes though he has been making consistently over the last few years.

They've all made mistakes this season, but Evans' are far more likely to continue than Vidic's imo.

My impression from watching the games has been that Vidic has been somewhat error prone since recovering from his ACL injury. I'm not saying that is related, or that he has massively declined as a player, but it has been noticeable to me. I also feel that Evans over the last two years has become a much better defender and less error prone.

Unfortunately I don't know if anyone compiles statistics on that sort of thing, how reliable they would be, or where I would find them. So I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.

jimmii

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Here's the thing. I love Javier Hernandez. Borderline gay at times (although there is nothing wrong with that, it's odd considering I am not a gay man).

However, if he feels he should be the #1 striker at a big club, he's going to have to leave. I honestly don't think he is good enough all-round to be a success at a really top club, in a role different to what he has with us.

Big time he is an outstanding goalscorer given the chance but in reality he is just a better version of Darren Bent! If he went to a smaller club I could see him scoring a bucket load of goals but playing for the top clubs you have to be able to do more than that. I really hope he decides he is happy with his lot at United because he seems like a great guy and he does what he does really well.

jimmii

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't know if anyone compiles statistics on that sort of thing, how reliable they would be, or where I would find them. So I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree.

You could compare stats for missed tackles and errors leading to goalscoring chance off the top of my head those are two relevant ones I know are compiled i'm sure there are more everything is totted up these days!!

Your Airbag

Vidic was immense for us when he came back last year. He still operates at a very high level and is our best CB imo.

Chico did look frustrated. He also looked isolated up front like RVP has which must be annoying.

The team seems to be working hard but with Moyes setup they can't get into a flow as easily as they used too. I think Fellaini could be a little more advanced and I don't want to see Giggs get 90mins in MF again.

DM_7

Vidic and Ferdinand are really good defenders. Lokks to me like playing with either requires the rest of the team to be set in a way many of us have complained about this season though. You often have to play deeper when they take the field than when Evans & Jones or Smalling are playing.

If they play a high line they are in trouble anytime possession is lost. Play them deeper and they are in trouble any time midfield pushes forward leaving a big gap for the opposition to play in, meaning the midfield don't push up when in possession so its too easy to press someone like Carrick and he has no hope of getting the ball to the forwards.

As always, the problems come back to midfield (no surprise). You end up reliant on a counter attack and getting an early lead to defend if you want to beat the good sides. Playing with Jones and Evans provides options that IMO lessen the problems created by the midfield.

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

Vidic and Ferdinand are really good defenders. Lokks to me like playing with either requires the rest of the team to be set in a way many of us have complained about this season though. You often have to play deeper when they take the field than when Evans & Jones or Smalling are playing.

If they play a high line they are in trouble anytime possession is lost. Play them deeper and they are in trouble any time midfield pushes forward leaving a big gap for the opposition to play in, meaning the midfield don't push up when in possession so its too easy to press someone like Carrick and he has no hope of getting the ball to the forwards.

As always, the problems come back to midfield (no surprise). You end up reliant on a counter attack and getting an early lead to defend if you want to beat the good sides. Playing with Jones and Evans provides options that IMO lessen the problems created by the midfield.

I think it's only Rio out of those two that forces the back four deeper. Vidic has never been quick, but he's always gotten by.

I think the sitting deep won't completely go away though no matter who's playing, not until the midfield sorts their shít out.

IrishIrish

Pro. F wrote: »

I think it's only Rio out of those two that forces the back four deeper. Vidic has never been quick, but he's always gotten by.

I think the sitting deep won't completely go away though no matter who's playing, not until the midfield sorts their shít out.

Rio is light years ahead of Vidic and 99% of other defenders out there in terms of reading the game, which makes it much more easy for him to deal with a lack of pace, and he's shown this over the past couple of seasons.

None of the center backs at the club have great pace so I think its a pretty moot point.

MagicMarker

IrishIrish wrote: »

Rio is light years ahead of Vidic and 99% of other defenders out there in terms of reading the game, which makes it much more easy for him to deal with a lack of pace, and he's shown this over the past couple of seasons.

None of the center backs at the club have great pace so I think its a pretty moot point.

Smalling and Jones have fantastic pace.

IrishIrish

MagicMarker wrote: »

Smalling and Jones have fantastic pace.

Maybe in comparison to Rio and Vidic. Not in comparison to fast strikers. Players like Silvestre had 'Fantastic' pace.

IrishIrish

IrishIrish wrote: »

Maybe in comparison to Rio and Vidic. Not in comparison to fast strikers. Players like Silvestre had 'Fantastic' pace.

Chris Smalling is one of the fastest players in the premier league.

IrishIrish

Brynlee Scary Peanut wrote: »

Chris Smalling is one of the fastest players in the premier league.

Really yeh? I would have expected him to be the fastest we have, still wouldn't expect him to be up there with the likes of Raf, Evra (maybe now), Valencia, Chico etc and thats just at united.

Pro. F

IrishIrish wrote: »

Rio is light years ahead of Vidic and 99% of other defenders out there in terms of reading the game, which makes it much more easy for him to deal with a lack of pace, and he's shown this over the past couple of seasons.

None of the center backs at the club have great pace so I think its a pretty moot point.

Rio should be able to deal with his diminishing pace because of his reading of the game, that's so good as you say, but he can't. For whatever reason he has started to become a danger to the other defenders around him with his constant dropping too deep.

IrishIrish wrote: »

Maybe in comparison to Rio and Vidic. Not in comparison to fast strikers. Players like Silvestre had 'Fantastic' pace.

No, Smalling and Jones have fantastic pace. To describe them as not having great pace is just incorrect.

MagicMarker

IrishIrish wrote: »

Really yeh? I would have expected him to be the fastest we have

So why are you telling us all that he doesn't have great pace when clearly you have no clue either way?

Some posts honestly baffle me.

IrishIrish

Pro. F wrote: »

Rio should be able to deal with his diminishing pace because of his reading of the game, that's so good as you say, but he can't. For whatever reason he has started to become a danger to the other defenders around him with his constant dropping too deep.

So Rio has gone from being in the team of the year last season to a danger to his defensive partners? This is complete rubbish or 'incorrect'. Rio has made mistakes early this season which I would put down to being over played. He's not able to play 3 games a week anymore and Fergie managed him perfectly. Moyes came in and didn't manage him as well and he found out the hard way. I'd expect going forward that Rio will come back in to the team but saved for the bigger games.

IrishIrish

MagicMarker wrote: »

So why are you telling us all that he doesn't have great pace when clearly you have no clue either way?

Some posts honestly baffle me.

I don't think Jones or Smalling have fantastic pace. I'd be willing to admit I'm wrong with Smalling as he may be faster than I thought.

Me saying Smalling is the fastest center back we have doesn't equal me saying that Smalling has fantastic pace. None of them have the 'Fantastic' pace that Chico, Valencia, Rafael, Evra etc have.

I really didn't want to get in to this pointless argument, who cares how fast the players are and what determines what pace is 'fantastic' and what isn't?

The original discussion was some one mentioning that Rio and Vidic had to play deep because they were too slow. Another poster then said it was Rio's fault. All i'm saying is that it wouldn't make much difference which defenders we played because none of them are particularly fast (in relation to fast strikers) with the possible exception of Smalling.

Pro. F

IrishIrish wrote: »

So Rio has gone from being in the team of the year last season to a danger to his defensive partners? This is complete rubbish or 'incorrect'. Rio has made mistakes early this season which I would put down to being over played. He's not able to play 3 games a week anymore and Fergie managed him perfectly. Moyes came in and didn't manage him as well and he found out the hard way. I'd expect going forward that Rio will come back in to the team but saved for the bigger games.

Whoever gets into the team of the year is of no importance.

Rio has been steadily dropping deeper over the last few years and it's only going to cause more and more problems. He wasn't too bad last season, but he was worse than the season before. This year he has gotten worse again. This isn't going to stop happening any time soon, no matter how sparingly he is used.

Cantona's Collars

Anybody hear any concrete news of an announcement tomorrow of a new mega deal with Nike?

yabadabado

Pro. F wrote: »

Whoever gets into the team of the year is of no importance.

Rio has been steadily dropping deeper over the last few years and it's only going to cause more and more problems. He wasn't too bad last season, but he was worse than the season before. This year he has gotten worse again. This isn't going to stop happening any time soon, no matter how sparingly he is used.

full chapter in SAF book about RIo and this is one thing mentioned.SAF and Rio talked about him dropping a few yards deeper 3 seasons ago because his pace is going due to age and back problems.SAF said Rio agreed and has since changed his game.
At Rio's age it can happen that your form deteriorates very quickly as time catches up with you .I think Rio will leave United in the summer.

Mitch Connor

zerks wrote: »

Anybody hear any concrete news of an announcement tomorrow of a new mega deal with Nike?

nothing concrete - nor vague. nothing at all!

KevIRL

Nick Powell Europa League star, great strike :cool:

Rayne Wooney

Powell just scored a very good goal from nothing.

3 in 3 European games for him

Mitch Connor

POSSY wrote: »

has powell scored as many goals in Europe this year as United combined?!

well, we got 4 against Leverkusen, so no.

Backstreet Moyes

Really think if Powell had not been injured last year people would be doing a lot more talking about him. I am impressed everytime i see him.

Mars Bar

Is he playing up front again?

Backstreet Moyes

Mars Bar wrote: »

Is he playing up front again?

Only watched last 20 mins but he was dropping a bit deeper more in the hole than anything.

Lucas Hood

Mars Bar wrote: »

Is he playing up front again?

He's playing just off Grant Holt .

Nice goal .
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16dw4e_wigan-athletic-1-1-rubin-kazan-goal-nick-powell_sport

Your Airbag

zerks wrote: »

Anybody hear any concrete news of an announcement tomorrow of a new mega deal with Nike?

Nothing bar this

Andrew Kilduff
@TuftyMUFC

Strong rumours that there is going to be a big announcement from #mufc tomorrow. Likely to be a new deal with Nike.

https://twitter.com/TuftyMUFC/status/393425230976532480

The_Kew_Tour

Money for the Glazers

Red Crow

It'll have to be at least £50M+

Arsenal are getting £30M off Puma and Liverpool are getting £25M off Warrior.