Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Vic Vinegar

bucketybuck wrote: »

But Nani took on players? And ran at players? And shot at goal? And helped create a goal.

Nah, Nani mostly stood still with the ball, or spooned it over the bar etc. He had one good cross for the goal though, yeah. He'll get better i have no doubt, just an off day from him.

onemorechance

bucketybuck wrote: »

But Nani took on players? And ran at players? And shot at goal? And helped create a goal.

No, he only helped create a goal. He didn't go past any player, didn't even try I think. Both his shots were wide I think and he lost the ball carelessly and gave Stoke a great attacking chance. But still he'll come good, what's a point or twenty lost out on along the way! :pac:

Robson99

Oregano_State wrote: »

I did not say that. That's a straw man.

I don't want Nani to be replaced either, I don't know where you got that from. I was pointing out that even if you wanted to replace him, you couldn't without spending huge money, and even then couldn't be guaranteed the player wold perfor.

Mata is very attainable IMO and would have no trouble performing at Manu.

The reason I highlighted midfield was because if you think Nani is irreplaceable well how do you think we will improve that position.

This is Man Utd we are on about. If you want us to compete at the top level the money has to be spent to bring in World Class players which we require 3 or 4 of at the moment

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

But Nani took on players? And ran at players? And shot at goal? And helped create a goal.

Nani didn't take on players nearly as well as Adnan did. Nani was pretty weak at taking on players, whereas Adnan was very good at it. Stoke were shítting themselves every time Januzaj got the ball and he got past his man a good few times, most times he was fouled immediately afterwards.

Some of Nani's shots did came close to be fair to him, but he had a poor game overall today.

Pro. F

onemorechance wrote: »

No, he only helped create a goal. He didn't go past any player, didn't even try I think. Both his shots were wide I think and he lost the ball carelessly and gave Stoke a great attacking chance. But still he'll come good, what's a point or twenty lost out on along the way! :pac:

You are talking some amount of bollocks there. No way Nani will cost us 20 points, nor anything remotely like it.

Jimmy Iovine

I really hope the tv cameras picked up Fergie celebrating Hernandez's goal.

He went ballistic. Up on his feet in seconds and cheering more boisterously than for Bruce's goal all those years ago. Then he sat down, took off the glasses and wiped his eyes. You know it's a great goal when he takes off the glasses afterwards.

Great to see that he's not being hampered in anyway by that hip operation he had.

Oh and I spotted everyone's favourite CEO, Woodward at it. He had the same smile as the one below on his face throughout the whole game. Freaky chap.

Cantona's Collars

Nani was Nani today,there's games where he makes you want to put your foot through the tv and the next game he'll tear a team apart.
Nobody today really covered themselves in glory and we managed to beat a team who don't know how to score 3-2 at home,I know a win is a win but it's papering over the cracks.
The same pattern of play was here today,pass,stop,pass,stop.Feck all movement a lot of the time and it made us predictable & easy to play against.

Moyes even alluded as to what's expected of the team at Old Trafford after the game,basically United are expected to play & win a certain way.

Backstreet Moyes

Can anybody tell me if Rafael was injured today because if not i will be annoyed.

onemorechance

Pro. F wrote: »

You are talking some amount of bollocks there. No way Nani will cost us 20 points, nor anything remotely like it.

Do not raise your voice to me sir! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmKxa_FMkU

Backstreet Moyes

It really is worrying how little fluency their is in the play. Our play just seems to be get it to the wings, cross from deep and hit the first man it's pathetic. Moyes needs to mix it up a bit.

bryangiggsy

Delighted with the result even if the performance was poor. Stoke seemed to create chances easier. I thought our marking was poor. I thought jones was poor and smalling was poor. I thought kagawa, rooney and adnan played well. Sad day when stephen ireland runs the show in the centre.. Cleverly and carrick poor.moyes made the right subs and acted when needed. Needs to get the f in defence in order sharpish. Pulis said it right that we were not bossing the game like we normally would. We need to get that confidence back.

Al Capwned

Jones was muck, and on a couple of occasions both his and Smalling's first touch to control the ball from a pass along the deck resulted in the ball squirting off their feet, or two feet up in the air.

I worry if Jones is going to reach the required standard. Defensively today we were really really poor....

Rooney on the other hand was excellent. There is one particular vocal critic of him on my facebook that is glaringly silent this evening... Can't imagine the trouble we'd be in if he'd left.

ericzeking

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Delighted with the result even if the performance was poor. Stoke seemed to create chances easier. I thought our marking was poor. I thought jones was poor and smalling was poor. I thought kagawa, rooney and adnan played well. Sad day when stephen ireland runs the show in the centre.. Cleverly and carrick poor.moyes made the right subs and acted when needed. Needs to get the f in defence in order sharpish. Pulis said it right that we were not bossing the game like we normally would. We need to get that confidence back.

How you can say Stephen Ireland ran the show when we had 67% possession is beyond me. Yes Stoke had some good chances and we were lucky at times but we dictated the game even if we didn't create as many chances as we should have.
Thought we played alright, playing with players like Kagawa and Januzaj integrating with Rooney in a deeper role is essentially a new style of play for us, more short intricate passing and less counter attacking and wing play. These players will only improve from playing together.

Mars Bar

Love this picture!

Winston Payne

Let's have a look at some of the passing statistics from our players today.


Wayne Rooney [52/59] - : Rooney's not been in great form for the majority of our fixtures this season and there are misgivings, to say the least, about putting him in the hole. His performance today was an improvement, but those final third passing figures still must improve.



Shinji Kagawa [63/69]: Kagawa impressed in midweek and late on against Sociedad shows bits and pieces of the form that United expected from the Japanese international. His figures below look decent but he had a poor game, failing to introduce any dynamism or real cutting edge throughout his play.



Michael Carrick [76/83] : Carrick has enjoyed an indifferent start to the season and today was much in keeping with that. Gave away possession quite poorly which lead to a dangerous break in the first half for example, something you wouldn't have seen last season. His figures are good, but he didn't inject enough tempo from deep. Personally I think he's struggling physically and that this could be the beginning of the end for him.



Tom Cleverley [50/60] : Cleverley has faded from prominence compared to last year. Limitations in his game are more apparent now, such as his stamina, and more alarmingly his reticence to drive forward and create. Cleverley was someone who used to quicken up our play and get us going. That aspect of his game has faded away and he made no impresson whatsoever on the game today. Replaced by Wayne Rooney and to good effect, something that's as damning on Cleverley as it is impressive by Rooney.

The_Kew_Tour

Thought Smalling was better then people suggest.

Cleverly was the worst player in red shirt.

De Gea deserves huge praise for few top class saves

DM_7

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Kagawa was playing on top of Rooney a lot today which led to Rooney playing almost level with RVP at times and our team just looked distorted.

A not so subtle way of telling Moyes where he wants to play maybe. I still see him going back to Dortmund at some stage and getting back his form before he left.

No I don't think so, he is playing the same way Welbeck of Januzaj have played from the left, going unto the centre allowing Evra to get down the wing. Its purposely designed to get Rooney and RVP closer together.

Moyes has played guys like Piennar very successfully in that role in recent times.

If it will work at United or not remains to be seen but it is certainly on purpose/by design of the manager and nothing to do with the player trying to tell Moyes anything.

J. Marston

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Thought Smalling was better then people suggest.

Cleverly was the worst player in red shirt.

De Gea deserves huge praise for few top class saves

Worse than Nani?

Pro. F

Al Capwned wrote: »

Jones was muck, and on a couple of occasions both his and Smalling's first touch to control the ball from a pass along the deck resulted in the ball squirting off their feet, or two feet up in the air.

I worry if Jones is going to reach the required standard. Defensively today we were really really poor....

Rooney on the other hand was excellent. There is one particular vocal critic of him on my facebook that is glaringly silent this evening... Can't imagine the trouble we'd be in if he'd left.

I agree that Jones and Smalling were poor, but how you can talk about that without mentioning Evans is weird to me. He was also very poor today. They all need to fix whatever was unsettling them today.

Evra wasn't great either, but to be fair he had zero cover from his winger.

The_Kew_Tour

J. Marston wrote: »

Worse than Nani?

Yes he was worse. Nani at least was trying make something happen.

Imo

Cantona's Collars

Commentator made a comment about the last time Rooney & RVP last scored in the same game,missed how long but it was ages.They just don't seem to link up well together at all considering how intelligent their individual play is.

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

No I don't think so, he is playing the same way Welbeck of Januzaj have played from the left, going unto the centre allowing Evra to get down the wing. Its purposely designed to get Rooney and RVP closer together.

Moyes has played guys like Piennar very successfully in that role in recent times.

If it will work at United or not remains to be seen but it is certainly on purpose/by design of the manager and nothing to do with the player trying to tell Moyes anything.

Kagawa was playing very differently to how Januzaj and Welbeck have played the left wing imo. The other two tracked back on that side of the pitch he was nowhere to be seen for most attacks down that side.

Al Capwned

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Thought Smalling was better then people suggest.

Cleverly was the worst player in red shirt.

De Gea deserves huge praise for few top class saves

de Gea was excellent, and I'm a huge fan of his, i think he's outstanding....

However.... for both the second goal today and the Sociedad free kick on wednesday night I thought he might have gotten closer to them. Maybe i'm being super critical, but when you look at what he is capable of (Mata free kick for example) I can't help thinking he may have gotten closer to them.

gosplan

As a non Utd fan, I have big questions about Kagawa.

Yeah he was great at Dortmund but so was Sahin who bombed at Madrid and Pool.

It seems that his rating has gone up every time he hasn't played.

Then I watched him today and didn't think too much. But then he was in the wing. But how good can he be if there's only one position in the world that he can play well in. Not a AMF in 4-3-3, not a wide midfielder, not a striker but some kind of withdrawn second striker/midfielder.

Anyway, I'm curious to know what Utd fans think.

Al Capwned

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree that Jones and Smalling were poor, but how you can talk about that without mentioning Evans is weird to me. He was also very poor today. They all need to fix whatever was unsettling them today.

Evra wasn't great either, but to be fair he had zero cover from his winger.

Ah ya could really mention a lot more than just two - a lot more - reason I mentioned just those two was just the couple of poor first touches that jumped out at me during the game.

The_Kew_Tour

Al Capwned wrote: »

de Gea was excellent, and I'm a huge fan of his, i think he's outstanding....

However.... for both the second goal today and the Sociedad free kick on wednesday night I thought he might have gotten closer to them. Maybe i'm being super critical, but when you look at what he is capable of (Mata free kick for example) I can't help thinking he may have gotten closer to them.

Tbf you have a point. He could have done better.

I'll give him benefit of doubt but can see why you think it could have been saved.

Not put much wrong past year though. Can't get over how confident he has become past 12 months or so.

gosplan

Al Capwned wrote: »

de Gea was excellent, and I'm a huge fan of his, i think he's outstanding....

However.... for both the second goal today and the Sociedad free kick on wednesday night I thought he might have gotten closer to them. Maybe i'm being super critical, but when you look at what he is capable of (Mata free kick for example) I can't help thinking he may have gotten closer to them.

I thought it was the unpredictable ricochet off the bar that did it for the second. Not DDG fault

Al Capwned

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Tbf you have a point. He could have done better.

I'll give him Benifica of though but can see why you think it could have been saved.

Not put much wrong past year though. Can't get over how confident he has become past 12 months or so.

Yeah like I said probably being super critical - wouldn't swap him for anyone right now....

Your Airbag

It was a big relief to get the three points today and I'm tempted to say "papering over the cracks" but we did dominate the possession and Stokes goals all had an element of luck. First was almost an own goal and the crossbar helped with the second.

Saying that though, DDG kept us in it with a couple of great saves. Had they gone in we were in big trouble. The defense looked shakey.

Something is still off though. Too many times I saw Carrick try to pass from very deep to the forward line, these were ground passes almost half the pitches lenght. Both Carrick and Clev lumped balls up forward.

There seems to be no link between the midfeild and forward line, they are too far apart from each other at times.

Rooney and Kagawa seemed to swap positions or get in each others way a lot. Its like players are not sure of their roles in the formation. They need clear boundaries.

Nani added fuel to the is he/isn't he UTD standard debate. Many poor touches and decisions, subbed off but somehow still got involved in the first goal. He continues to annoy and thrill.

As for the subs I think Moyes is getting too much praise, not that he did anything wrong but he had no choice really.. He had to go for it with the three strikers and Januzaj, we were 3-5-2 at times in the closing stages. It was unlike the Southampton subs where he was protecting a lead.

Al Capwned

gosplan wrote: »

I thought it was the unpredictable ricochet off the bar that did it for the second. Not DDG fault

I've seen him reach balls that were going to hit the bar, or even go over. I know all keepers all have a preferred side - maybe his is going to his left...

Anyway, i've no great worries about his form, he is top quality.
Unlike a lot of others...

The_Kew_Tour

gosplan wrote: »

As a non Utd fan, I have big questions about Kagawa.

Yeah he was great at Dortmund but so was Sahin who bombed at Madrid and Pool.

It seems that his rating has gone up every time he hasn't played.

Then I watched him today and didn't think too much. But then he was in the wing. But how good can he be if there's only one position in the world that he can play well in. Not a AMF in 4-3-3, not a wide midfielder, not a striker but some kind of withdrawn second striker/midfielder.

Anyway, I'm curious to know what Utd fans think.

I can see from your point of view.

If I was non United fan I say the same.

I have questioned it during the week if he really is going be as good as some say. He does deserve a fair chance though. Needs more games on more consistent basis.

But I still have questions to be answered.

jebus84

I forget how young Januzaj is, so composed on the ball he might be better than Ronaldo when he was at that age

MagicMarker

jebus84 wrote: »

I forget how young Januzaj is, so composed on the ball he might be better than Ronaldo when he was at that age

No.

Ronaldo may have been more raw at that age but he was way way ahead in technical ability.

Rayne Wooney

jebus84 wrote: »

I forget how young Januzaj is, so composed on the ball he might be better than Ronaldo when he was at that age

Ronaldo was ripping people new arseh*les at that age, please tell me people aren't starting this comparison.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

Kagawa was playing very differently to how Januzaj and Welbeck have played the left wing imo. The other two tracked back on that side of the pitch he was nowhere to be seen for most attacks down that side.

I was talking about in possession rather than defending, I didn't make that clear enough.

Playing Kagawa is going to get the result of a more open left hand side in defence for sure but I think the team can be set up to get around that issue. Especially if more control of games can be found.

Your Airbag

MagicMarker wrote: »

No.

Ronaldo may have been more raw at that age but he was way way ahead in technical ability.

I agree but Adnan gives a better end product at this stage I think.

I can't see anyone going on to reach Ronaldos level again though, not for a long time. He is a once in a generation player, maybe once in a lifetime.

Rayne Wooney

DM-ICE wrote: »

I was talking about in possession rather than defending, I didn't make that clear enough.

Playing Kagawa is going to get the result of a more open left hand side in defence for sure but I think the team can be set up to get around that issue. Especially if more control of games can be found.

I wasn't being 100% serious when I said Kagawa may be hinting to Moyes, but I really doubt it's a plan Moyes had, I think it's just Kagawa's tendency to go wherever he feels like, look at his heat map for the game he was over the right side as much maybe even more than Rooney was.

jameshayes

Webmaster@manutd.com wrote:

In this week's United Uncovered email newsletter, a graphic spelling the letters MUFC ran alongside a feature about Manchester United's younger squad members entitled New Order.

While the headline was intended to reference the band of the same name, it has been pointed out that the graphic had design similarities to a swastika which, combined with other connotations of the phrase 'new order', has caused offence which was entirely unintended.

For this, United Uncovered unreservedly apologises.

..

Winston Payne

Attention-seeking or blithe incompetence? You decide.

PhlegmyMoses

gosplan wrote: »

As a non Utd fan, I have big questions about Kagawa.

Yeah he was great at Dortmund but so was Sahin who bombed at Madrid and Pool.

It seems that his rating has gone up every time he hasn't played.

Then I watched him today and didn't think too much. But then he was in the wing. But how good can he be if there's only one position in the world that he can play well in. Not a AMF in 4-3-3, not a wide midfielder, not a striker but some kind of withdrawn second striker/midfielder.

Anyway, I'm curious to know what Utd fans think.

I don't think that there's only one position he can play in. I reckon he could play anywhere across the front apart from Striker. He needs a run of games before we can judge him. He's also miles ahead of almost all the other United players in passing ability and he thinks differently to the rest of them.

The mentality at United tends to be to get forward quickly and be direct. Kagawa has more of a Barca mindframe in that he's happy to pass and potter around without trying to force things. I'm not sure he'll work out at OT as a result. Happy Moyes has given him a couple of full 90s, though.

BTW, Sahin is playing very well for Dortmund now by all accounts. Think he was unlucky. He got injured early on at Madrid and only ended up playing a handful of games for them. Got loaned to Liverpool and was kind of played out of position in a team in transition.

Alpha Dog 1

Jacuzzi is really starting to look the real deal, seems like he came out of nowhere. Can anyone who follows the youngsters confirm whether or not he showed this potential over the last few years?

Also did anyone think that he would have this kind of impact on the first team?

super_furry

Winston Payne wrote: »

Attention-seeking or blithe incompetence? You decide.

Does look.....ropey in fairness.

Will I Amnt

A black fella and a Muslim kinda goes against it if it was intentional :pac:

Cantona's Collars

Will I Amnt wrote: »

A black fella and a Muslim kinda goes against it if it was intentional :pac:

I'm outraged!!




Sorry,wrong club:pac:

Cantona's Collars

The Daily Mail Match Zone is great for stats,heat maps etc. Very thorough.

The heat map for Valencia shows how little attacking he did today,the majority of his positioning was just inside his own half.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/matchzone/index.html#s2013-c8-m694985

Will I Amnt

zerks wrote: »

I'm outraged!!




Sorry,wrong club:pac:

Did you delete your messages man?
I replied to you the other day but it said your inbox is full in case you don't know.

Alpha Dog 1

zerks wrote: »

The Daily Mail Match Zone is great for stats,heat maps etc. Very thorough.

The heat map for Valencia shows how little attacking he did today,the majority of his positioning was just inside his own half.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/matchzone/index.html#s2013-c8-m694985

That's probably because he was playing right back!

Cantona's Collars

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

That's probably because he was playing right back!

The weird thing was his positioning,literally at the half way line for the entire match.It's as if he just stayed within a 10 yard zone and didn't move outside it.

Robson99

zerks wrote: »

The weird thing was his positioning,literally at the half way line for the entire match.It's as if he just stayed within a 10 yard zone and didn't move outside it.

RVP's most highlighted area is the corner flag:)

Lucas Hood

zerks wrote: »

The weird thing was his positioning,literally at the half way line for the entire match.It's as if he just stayed within a 10 yard zone and didn't move outside it.

Entire match ? He only played 15 mins today