Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Crimson King

The fact its in OT gives me hope tbh. Although saying that our form at home so far has been awful, its the main reason we are off the pace so much. 4 more points from the WBA, Southampton games and we are sitting very pretty up there and not 8 points behind.

TheDoc

A big win against a rival at home could be the spark the season needs, and more importantly the team. Still feel Moyes is finding his feet, maybe treading around lightly making sure not to step on any toes.

Firmly believe that at some point, he needs to appreciate he was picked for a reason, and lay the law down. That second half performance against Fulham, despite the triple substituion, was regressive and desperate.

I'm still quietly confident about our chances this year, even after our start. There is an evident, granted slow, rise in results and players settling in under the new management, and we arn't a million miles off, after some pretty horrendous performances and results.

Away form is going to win the league this year I think, there is plenty of humps and bumps to come for Chelsea and City, and firmly believe Arsenal have a slump they will need to deal with. The hope I have is that we have the experience,and come winter can close the gap big time, and maybe even knick a lead at the top.

Typically we don't do any major business in January, last I can think of was Vidic and Evra, that resulted in first team integration. Get this nagging feeling we are going to bring in 1-2 faces January aimed at immediate impact.


Getting to that point in the season where I said I'd reflect back on the start, rather then the guys who had a ****ing brainexplosion after the summer transfer window. Might hold my thoughts of until after the Arsenal game, as I think it will be a big measure of both clubs. Are Arsenal title contenders, have we really turned a small corner ?

Shane St.

Was Carrick injured for Fulham? I heard he didn't train today either. That's a worry. We need him for Arsenal

homerjay2005

Shane St. wrote: »

Was Carrick injured for Fulham? I heard he didn't train today either. That's a worry. We need him for Arsenal

ya, he has been injured since last week. nothing serious though i think so he has every chance of playing next weekend....with Cleverly injured and Jones possibly needed in defence, i think he will feature against Arsenal.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Might hold my thoughts of until after the Arsenal game, as I think it will be a big measure of both clubs. Are Arsenal title contenders, have we really turned a small corner ?

How can anybody look at our recent performances and even think for a second that we have turned a corner?

Forget results, because lest we forget are we not in the middle of our "easy" run of games? Instead look at the performances against Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland, they were dire. We may indeed beat Arsenal, though I am not at all confident, but until we start actually playing good football we are not turning any corner.

Vic Vinegar

Rafael is a doubt for Arsenal game with ankle ligament damage.

Big blow.

Mars Bar

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Rafael is a doubt for Arsenal game with ankle ligament damage.

Big blow.

Fabio deserves a chance now.

Mitch Connor

Mars Bar wrote: »

Fabio deserves a chance now.

I agree, but it will be Smalling or Jones at right back if Raf isn't available, which along with Valencia playing on the right means we are going to offer nothing down the right side of the pitch.

MagicMarker

I'd rather Valencia behind Nani on the right tbh.

sReq | uTeK

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'd rather Valencia behind Nani on the right tbh.

Just for Lolz, Raf at right back, Fab on the right wing, confuse the **** out of everyone.

2 of them have bags of energy and rafael has probably been in the box more than Valencia this season, would love to see it tried.

homerjay2005

any word yet on whether Fergie will be on the late late on Friday? I hoping to get my hands on a few tickets for it, so willing to take the risk that he will be on it.

realistically, it makes logical sense that he will be, considering he is launching his book friday in dublin. would expect the Easons thing over by 10.00 allowing him time to get to RTE.

ericzeking

I didn't see the game Saturday as I was on the road, listened to the first half commentary on the radio and sure it was done at that stage. I watched MOTD but that was limited enough coverage.

Alot of people are saying we were sh!te in the second half and I'll take that on board but when I look at the bare facts of the game I find it hard to criticize the team for taking the foot off the gas after going 3-0 up, it's human nature...yes it would be great if we went on and scored 7 or 8 like City did but that happens once maybe every 3 seasons. What I prefer to look at is the fact we put a difficult away fixture to bed within 25 minutes (despite current form Fulham has always been tough for us and they have good players). This is good. Results are coming, things are building up slowly, there are plenty reasons to be positive.

Arsenal game is going to be a true test, we're well into the new regime now....looking forward to it.

MagicMarker

homerjay2005 wrote: »

any word yet on whether Fergie will be on the late late on Friday? I hoping to get my hands on a few tickets for it, so willing to take the risk that he will be on it.

realistically, it makes logical sense that he will be, considering he is launching his book friday in dublin. would expect the Easons thing over by 10.00 allowing him time to get to RTE.

If he is it might be pre-recorded.

homerjay2005

MagicMarker wrote: »

If he is it might be pre-recorded.

would assume the timing of the easons event, is done to facilitate the live show. only recordings are for people like Gerrard who would have had to have been back in the UK asap for a match the following morning.

Cantona's Collars

ericzeking wrote: »

I didn't see the game Saturday as I was on the road, listened to the first half commentary on the radio and sure it was done at that stage. I watched MOTD but that was limited enough coverage.

Alot of people are saying we were sh!te in the second half and I'll take that on board but when I look at the bare facts of the game I find it hard to criticize the team for taking the foot off the gas after going 3-0 up, it's human nature...yes it would be great if we went on and scored 7 or 8 like City did but that happens once maybe every 3 seasons. What I prefer to look at is the fact we put a difficult away fixture to bed within 25 minutes (despite current form Fulham has always been tough for us and they have good players). This is good. Results are coming, things are building up slowly, there are plenty reasons to be positive.

Arsenal game is going to be a true test, we're well into the new regime now....looking forward to it.

Thing is,we haven't been destroying teams for nigh on 3 seasons now,bar a few results here & there we just haven't been ruthless enough.Even last season,how many times did we have to go behind just to wake up & start playing?
Just look how nervous we got at the back the other day when Fulham scored,aimlessly booting ball after ball up the field.

ericzeking

Whether recorded or not it is most likely not going to be worth it Tubridy is septic at interviewing anyone sports related, he will spend 90% of the interview trying to establish an Irish link to SAF....

"Just how much do you love coming to Ireland, Alex?"

ericzeking

zerks wrote: »

Thing is,we haven't been destroying teams for nigh on 3 seasons now,bar a few results here & there we just haven't been ruthless enough.Even last season,how many times did we have to go behind just to wake up & start playing?
Just look how nervous we got at the back the other day when Fulham scored,aimlessly booting ball after ball up the field.

Exactly, it doesn't happen all that often and is even less likely in an away game where the home side is going to show some sort of fight (as oppose to Norwich for example) but we are not the only team that don't do it... it all boils down to human nature. That and the treble substitution must have disrupted the flow of things.

I would say being 3-0 up after 25 minutes is pretty ruthless, I think I heard Kerr on the radio say that we had 3-4 chances and scored 3, pretty ruthless if you ask me.

Mitch Connor

IMO - we didn't take our foot off the gas or whatever on Saturday.

Fulham were shocking in the opening part of the game and we took advantage. After half time they improved and we couldn't string two passes together and our defence went into panic mode again.

It wasn't taking it easy - it was simply playing crap, again.

ericzeking

Ok so we didn't purposelly take our foot off the gas, it wasn't a cunning plan to save energy, I get that, that isn't what I meant.

Would you say we got complacent so and the performance level dropped off? That's probably a better way of putting it.

Cantona's Collars

ericzeking wrote: »

Exactly, it doesn't happen all that often and is even less likely in an away game where the home side is going to show some sort of fight (as oppose to Norwich for example) but we are not the only team that don't do it... it all boils down to human nature. That and the treble substitution must have disrupted the flow of things.

I would say being 3-0 up after 25 minutes is pretty ruthless, I think I heard Kerr on the radio say that we had 3-4 chances and scored 3, pretty ruthless if you ask me.

If you get a chance to watch the entire game,do.(Well maybe not),apart from a 25 minute spell we were absolutely desperate & the standard of our play at times was like watching an under 8's game in the local park.2 passes and lump it up the field.
Lucky that Fulham were so poor in the opening half,had it been scoreless at half time we'd have done well to get a draw,that's a measure of how poor we were.
I know we are moaning about winning 3-1 away from home but the result masks just what the game was like.Play like that against Arsenal & it'll be like the City game all over again.At least we have a UCL game to focus the minds and try to do something about this "job's done" mentality.

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

Ok so we didn't purposelly take our foot off the gas, it wasn't a cunning plan to save energy, I get that, that isn't what I meant.

Would you say we got complacent so and the performance level dropped off? That's probably a better way of putting it.

fellaini came on, and played poorly.
Kagawa game on, and played poorly.
Valencia moved to right back and did little.

I just think we reverted to the poor form we have seen for the most part this season. We have had periods of bright play but not a full game or run of games.

IvySlayer

Once Moyes gets a chance to go defensive, bam, that's it and try to pass the game out

Mitch Connor

IvySlayer wrote: »

Once Moyes gets a chance to go defensive, bam, that's it and try to pass the game out

you misspelled 'hoof' at the end there....

Cantona's Collars

IvySlayer wrote: »

Once Moyes gets a chance to go defensive, bam, that's it and try to pass the game out

Not sure Saturday was entirely his fault,there must be something in the players mindset to play like that.I honestly think they've come to use the chant "We're Man United,we do what we want" as their mantra.It doesn't seem to be working.Gone are the days when we owned the ball against teams,before a team like Fulham would have been lucky to have 30% possession against us but we just let teams play these days and rely on individual skill to get goals instead of actual teamwork.
Barca may pass the ball ad infinum but they have a serious work ethic when they don't have it,same for Bayern.Feck it,even Southampton do it.We used to once upon a time,these days we manage to make ordinary teams look decent.

Jose goes defensive in games & always has done but he's hailed a genius.Doing that isn't the United way and never has been.Even Moyes alluded to it last week,he knows what's expected but it seems some of the players have forgotten.January could be a telling month for a few in our squad.

bucketybuck

zerks wrote: »

January could be a telling month for a few in our squad.

I hope so, a good clear out is long overdue.

homerjay2005

ericzeking wrote: »

the performance level dropped off? That's probably a better way of putting it.

it dropped in comparison to the first 30 minutes yes but lets be fair here, the performance for the second half the last day, was in line with most of the season - disjointed and poor.

we played alot of games like that under Ferguson though, so i wouldnt worry about it, at this point in time, its all about results now and for the immediate future. i dont really care how we play, as long as we win.

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

Ok so we didn't purposelly take our foot off the gas, it wasn't a cunning plan to save energy, I get that, that isn't what I meant.

Would you say we got complacent so and the performance level dropped off? That's probably a better way of putting it.

Three substitutions can definitely stifle the flow we built from the first half. It was obvious Fulham were going to raise their game, they were appalling.

United teams of old would have soaked the pressure, but bagged another goal from a counter attack .Identified Fulham pressing high and then struck back. That has been a massive strength of ours over the years, need to capture that back.

If teams are going to get billy big dick against us, and press press press, we need to put the fear back into them and strike on the counter.

There is a reason teams came to OT and sat back for 90 minutes, because in a matter of seconds we could counter and have the ball in the net.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

I hope so, a good clear out is long overdue.

Can't see a big clear out - cause we will find it very difficult to bring in the replacements required.

Would rather we keep players like Anderson and Young until the summer if we aren't going to be able to replace them in January.

ericzeking

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we played alot of games like that under Ferguson though, so i wouldnt worry about it, at this point in time, its all about results now and for the immediate future. i dont really care how we play, as long as we win.

I'd actually be completely the opposite, I could handle some bad results or even a bad season if the long term picture looked good, if there was progression in our style and the type of player we were introducing.

As you say though alot of our performances have been very, very similar to the early part of last season in particular but we haven't had that same RVP factor that was pulling games out of the fire.

homerjay2005

ericzeking wrote: »

I'd actually be completely the opposite, I could handle some bad results or even a bad season if the long term picture looked good, if there was progression in our style and the type of player we were introducing.

As you say though alot of our performances have been very, very similar to the early part of last season in particular but we haven't had that same RVP factor that was pulling games out of the fire.

our performances wont improve until we sign the right players especially in midfield. HOWEVER, an inform centerback partnership and RVP/Rooney on form, can see us pick up alot of results.

the reality is, take out the two poor results against West Brom and Southampton and we'd be 2nd which just shows how poor the league is. we'd rarely drop points in those games, in the past 5 years.

magnumbud

bucketybuck wrote: »

I hope so, a good clear out is long overdue.

couldnt see a clear out happening in january. maybe 1 or 2 may go if replacements are coming in but even at that you dont know how long it will take a player to settle and it could disrupt the team. like sure we are in 8th right now but the right results next weekend and we could end up level on points with 2nd(our goal difference means we cant go second.).

i wouldnt even be expecting many to come in in january maybe baines (or another left back) and maybe a midfielder but as has been said what standard of players are going to be available then? and will the clubs be willing to let them go as it may disrupt their season?

aperture_nuig

Any chance we'll be back in for Coentrao in January? I haven't seen much of Real yet this season, is Ancelotti playing him that much?

sReq | uTeK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

IMO - we didn't take our foot off the gas or whatever on Saturday.

Fulham were shocking in the opening part of the game and we took advantage. After half time they improved and we couldn't string two passes together and our defence went into panic mode again.

It wasn't taking it easy - it was simply playing crap, again.

Does a lot of that not stem from having to make 3 changes at half time and having another man on the field injured playing at 50%

I know when playing if we're battering teams and then you have to make a large number of changes in a short period it disrupts the continuity of the side, and its hard to get the momentum back.

TheDoc

aperture_nuig wrote: »

Any chance we'll be back in for Coentrao in January? I haven't seen much of Real yet this season, is Ancelotti playing him that much?

Still playing second fiddle to Marcello even though being far superior imo. Injured himself at the weekend rolling his ankle. Marcello came on and gave away two retarded penalties.

I'd like to see Buttner giving the chance, the stuff about him when signing (quotes from a scout) were total bollox. Highly regarded prospect, lightning quick, good in attack, sweet delivery and hard as ****ing nails.

Actually reminds me a bit of Rafael before his breakthrough season, rash and leaving a bit desired tactically, but has a really good attitude and would love to see him do well. And even more so get a good chance/run.

Anytime I've seen him I've been relatively impressed. You can tell he is a good footballer, the positional stuff will come with experience.

Coentrao I wouldn't say no to however, but genuinely feel that lad could do a Bale. Left back who really should be playing left wing, and would be a force.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

Not sure Saturday was entirely his fault,there must be something in the players mindset to play like that.I honestly think they've come to use the chant "We're Man United,we do what we want" as their mantra.It doesn't seem to be working.Gone are the days when we owned the ball against teams,before a team like Fulham would have been lucky to have 30% possession against us but we just let teams play these days and rely on individual skill to get goals instead of actual teamwork.
Barca may pass the ball ad infinum but they have a serious work ethic when they don't have it,same for Bayern.Feck it,even Southampton do it.We used to once upon a time,these days we manage to make ordinary teams look decent.

Jose goes defensive in games & always has done but he's hailed a genius.Doing that isn't the United way and never has been.Even Moyes alluded to it last week,he knows what's expected but it seems some of the players have forgotten.January could be a telling month for a few in our squad.

When was that day?

All I remember is we played our best football in 2006-07 season and we won because of Ronaldo's brilliance and we had just 50% possession.

http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199356/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Winston Payne

Rafael was never as easy to go past as Buttner. Rafael was impressing from minute one, was clearly a more natural fit to the position than O'Shea, and superior to a then-declining Neville as a teenager. With Buttner and Evra it's an even shout at best. Most favour Evra.

Cantona's Collars

Giggsy11 wrote: »

When was that day?

All I remember is we played our best football in 2006-07 season and we won because of Ronaldo's brilliance and we had just 50% possession.

http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199356/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Read my post again,I said teams like Fulham,not specifically them.You missed my point.
How many times before have you heard opposing managers,players,commentators mentioning the fact that they'd rarely see the ball when they played us,these days we show teams far too much respect.

Winston Payne

How many years has it been since United played attractive, forward-minded football on a consistent basis? It's five or six years, at least. Being really exacting, not since 06/07. We hammered teams the year after but the aesthetic standard had dropped. Indeed it had dropped the season before too when Saha went out of the team. Given that, given the sheer exceptionalism of that season, how long the football was dire before that and how long it's been since, I'm curious. How long will it take until people accept that the current fare is what we're broadly going to get? That the exceptional football IS the exception? It seems mental to me, seeing what you see week in and week out, to ask for good football when it's just not available, when the pattern is so firmly established. We don't have the players for it. Our senior defenders don't have the legs and our central midfield lacks the capacity for dynamism and control that's necessary for dominant, attractive football. When those factors change, I might hope for better. But I won't until then because it seems pointless.

bucketybuck

Winston Payne wrote: »

How long will it take until people accept that the current fare is what we're broadly going to get?

If you are happy to accept rubbish thats up to you. Personally, and for all my opinion is meaningless, I will continue to call for better until we get it.

Cantona's Collars

The Class of 92, a documentary detailing the rise to stardom of six young Manchester United footballers including David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Phil and Gary Neville, will debut in selected cinemas across the UK through Universal Pictures from Dec 1.
The film will be available on DVD the following day (Dec 2).
The documentary covers 1992-1999, culminating in Manchester United’s European Cup triumph, and interweaves the narrative with the social and cultural changes taking place in Britain at the time.
The production secured access to all six players and also includes interviews with Zinedine Zidane, Tony Blair, Mani from the Stone Roses, Eric Cantona and Danny Boyle.
David Beckham said: “My time with these players at Manchester United were the most special in my career. We came from different backgrounds, grew up like a family playing together through the ranks, all wanting to be successful. In the end, what we achieved was beyond our wildest dreams. I loved making this film and reuniting back with the lads and talking openly about our time together.”
Ryan Giggs said: “When we were approached to do this film, it gave me the chance to think back over all the events in not only my career but all of the lads involved. Hopefully you’ll see how personal it is to us all - we’re still great mates and who would turn down the chance to make a movie with your best mates?”
Phil Neville added: “Making this film was a great experience, it’s got us all together, as we don’t often get a chance to these days, to revisit old haunts and reflect over the past. I am really looking forward to seeing the film complete”.

Oregano_State

Dunno if it was posted already but I saw some stats on twitter earlier saying Dortmund had one of the lowest average possession and pass completion stats in the CL last season, but have thrived on countering quickly and having a solid defence. Most people would say that BD are exciting to watch, which I would agree with, but if you go on these stats, they don't 'dominate' at least not in a possession sense.

I think we would be better off playing their style than trying to emulate Arsenal or Barca, as our players suit the counter-attacking model a lot better.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

Read my post again,I said teams like Fulham,not specifically them.You missed my point.
How many times before have you heard opposing managers,players,commentators mentioning the fact that they'd rarely see the ball when they played us,these days we show teams far too much respect.

Were we ever possession based team? Counter attacking game was our strength and at max we averaged around 55% possession.

Forget teams like Fulham, I gave the example of Fulham game and compared it with the season we played our best football. Possession game was not our strength, it's to hit teams on counter and quick attacks.

Murdered Fulham at home 5-1 but we had 55% possession.

http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199091/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Watford: 60-40 to us.
http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199106/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Reading 59-41 to us.
http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199139/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Won 3-0 against Villa but had 56% possession
http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199269/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Reading 50-50
http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/213503/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Bolton at home, won 4-1 but only 57% possession
http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199380/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Portsmouth 56-44 to us
http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/199399/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Watford 58-42 to us

http://espnfc.com/en/gamecast/215423/gamecast.html?soccernet=true&cc=4716

Like I said, teams like Fulham having around 45% possession against us (that too at their home) is nothing new. We were never Barca/Bayern or even Arsenal when it comes to possession.

Rayne Wooney

I'd argue that they dominate without the ball, they pressure so aggressively up to a certain point that leaves the other team passing around their back 4 which is no danger to Dortmund so they let them have it, then when the other team decide to try out an attack, Dortmund win the ball and go on a counter attack. They're ruthless on the counter and rarely let it go to waste.

Whatsisname

Was anyone else surprised by how well Cleverley played at Fulham before being injured? he seemed to be everywhere, in and out of tackles, getting the ball down and moving it quick, like a man possessed. Our play from midfield really stagnated after he went off, I feel.

jameshayes

Whatsisname wrote: »

Was anyone else surprised by how well Cleverley played at Fulham before being injured? he seemed to be everywhere, in and out of tackles, getting the ball down and moving it quick, like a man possessed. Our play from midfield really stagnated after he went off, I feel.

Maybe he watched the semi hammering he got on MOTD last week

Lucas Hood

Whatsisname wrote: »

Was anyone else surprised by how well Cleverley played at Fulham before being injured? he seemed to be everywhere, in and out of tackles, getting the ball down and moving it quick, like a man possessed. Our play from midfield really stagnated after he went off, I feel.

I think the only pass he misplaced in that game was the one he put into touch to get the physio on .

homerjay2005

possession means f*ck all in terms of good football. i want to see us attack with pace on the counter attack, nice one touch, crisp passing that cuts the opposition open time and time again.

playing the ball back and sideways for 90 minutes like Barcelona, doesnt do it for me.

Jimmy Iovine

Mars Bar wrote: »

I am, yeah!

Enjoy it. It really is a brilliant seat.

I've been there for a few games this season and you can see everything. Make sure to look over to the director's box on your right. You'll be able to see Fergie, David Gill and Ed Woodward.

The view of the pitch is perfect.

Cantona's Collars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTle-ecmS6g

wandatowell

and interweaves the narrative with the social and cultural changes taking place in Britain at the time.

Started to loose interest when it spouted this crap.