Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

RasTa

lordgoat wrote: »

I'd still be complaining about him if we won that game by 7. Positionally he was all over the place. Has the worst touch of anyone i've seen play for the club. Has forgotten how to pass and cross a ball.




I agree on the Young and Giggs had a nightmare. I think he did better when Kags was central. But no way on Valencia - what did he do well in that match? He summed up his whole game when he gave the ball away in the last few and nearly gave away a chance.

Valencia was decent covering back as usual, some ok link up play with Smalling going forward. Final 3rd let him down, 7/10

What did Hernandez do all game bar missing an open goal?

tinofapples

Totally agree with Young's criticism, I hated the sight of him tonight. Am I right thinking he's on 100k a week ? We're gonna have some job getting rid of a pathetic cheating player on that kinda money. I browsed through Paddy Power tonight in play to see if I could get a price on Fellaini being sent off cause it looked a cert after his 1st booking. Needless to say I didn't get a price :-( He looked like a headless chicken tonight.

Agueroooo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Cheated for a Peno you mean

Your honesty is refreshing.

RasTa

RobertKK wrote: »

I would be happy if Young has won a genuine penalty, he didn't, glad it was not converted as one shouldn't want their team to win games by cheating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXMehv29jZw

Bleating Lamb

Just a wishful thought.....what would we have been like this year if we had stretched that extra million or two in wages that would have got Nasri for the club when he signed for City and then if we had got Strootman this year?

Ah well sure we can console ourselves with a top 6 finish and getting whipped in Europe against a decent side.

Oregano_State

Gringo180 wrote: »

As an Arsenal fan I dont ever recall been so confident going into a fixture at Old Trafford. Roll on Sunday.

Hope your team shows up with the same attitude.

titan18

RasTa wrote: »

Ah yeah sure ship out Kagawa, Vidic, Smalling, Jones, Fellanni, Carrick, Nani, Rooney, Evans, Evra etc We will be able to replace them straight away

Never said straight away, that'd be stupid.

But as for the players

Kagawa - Use him right or sell him, no point in playing him on the left as he's not effective
Vidic - He's getting old and if a good offer was received, no reason to not sell him, but will fade over the next few seasons probably
Smalling - Good squad depth but not good enough to start
Jones - Same
Fellaini - Hasn't proven it yet, and he's a card magnet. Might come good but no reason to reject a good offer for him
Carrick - Same as Vidic
Nani - Would be a decent 3rd choice option, or even 2nd if you had an excellent winger on the opposite side, but again good offer comes in for him, sell
Rooney - Sell him and get as much money as you can
Evans - I like him but he's a squad option, would sell for a good offer
Evra - Love the guy, but he's getting old and I'd replace him in a second if we could get someone like Shaw in

As for others

Young, Valencia and Anderson should be sold for anything tbh. They're not good enough. Giggs should retire. Lindegaard is a decent backup GK but nothing that can't be replaced. I'd sell Hernandez for a good offer, he's wasted at the club and don't think he's good enough to be a regular starter anyway. Welbeck is decent squad depth and I reckon he'd sell for less than Hernandez, so sell Hernandez over him. Cleverley is same as Smalling/Jones. Buttner is meh, I'd sell. Rest are too young to judge

Iused2likebusts

Gringo180 wrote: »

As an Arsenal fan I dont ever recall been so confident going into a fixture at Old Trafford. Roll on Sunday.

Id be very surprised if arsenal won this game. Utd always seem to have arsenals number.

bad2dabone

PhlegmyMoses

Bad2dabone - Obsessed.

bucketybuck

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I'd like to see it more too but not at expense of Rooney. Kagawa should be there whenever one of Rooney or RVP are rested/unavailable in bigger games

Why? Really, why? What is Rooney creating in that number 10 position?

The difference in performance when Kagawa went central was quite noticeable.

RasTa wrote: »

Years you say? I'm not even going to bother, such sort memory's. Valencia had a good game, Young won a peno within 5-10mins of coming on.

Haha, you're a good laugh alright.

Nolars

Titan wrong thread - Here

Rayne Wooney

Seriously wasn't watching the same game if Valencia is getting 7/10.

2/10 is pushing it really

bad2dabone

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Bad2dabone - Obsessed.

1 post in Utd thread does not equal obsessed

sensitive!

Nolars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Seriously wasn't watching the same game if Valencia is getting 7/10.

2/10 is pushing it really

Who gave him a 7? Prob gave Young an 8 so.......

Jimmy Iovine

titan18 wrote: »

Never said straight away, that'd be stupid.

But as for the players

Kagawa - Use him right or sell him, no point in playing him on the left as he's not effective
Vidic - He's getting old and if a good offer was received, no reason to not sell him, but will fade over the next few seasons probably
Smalling - Good squad depth but not good enough to start
Jones - Same
Fellaini - Hasn't proven it yet, and he's a card magnet. Might come good but no reason to reject a good offer for him
Carrick - Same as Vidic
Nani - Would be a decent 3rd choice option, or even 2nd if you had an excellent winger on the opposite side, but again good offer comes in for him, sell
Rooney - Sell him and get as much money as you can
Evans - I like him but he's a squad option, would sell for a good offer
Evra - Love the guy, but he's getting old and I'd replace him in a second if we could get someone like Shaw in

As for others

Young, Valencia and Anderson should be sold for anything tbh. They're not good enough. Giggs should retire. Lindegaard is a decent backup GK but nothing that can't be replaced. I'd sell Hernandez for a good offer, he's wasted at the club and don't think he's good enough to be a regular starter anyway. Welbeck is decent squad depth and I reckon he'd sell for less than Hernandez, so sell Hernandez over him. Cleverley is same as Smalling/Jones. Buttner is meh, I'd sell. Rest are too young to judge

What a ridiculous over-reaction.

Step away from the computer for a while. Take a break.

RasTa

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Seriously wasn't watching the same game if Valencia is getting 7/10.

2/10 is pushing it really

Giggs, Hernandez, Rooney, Kagawa?

gosplan

RasTa wrote: »

What did Hernandez do all game bar missing an open goal?

I really get the love Utd fans have for Hernandez but the way he plays he can only every be a rotation option or super sub.

I'm not knocking the guy. Someone recently compared him to Inzaghi and I think that's really fair.

But his game will never be enough to lead the line for UTD.

Headshot

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

What a ridiculous over-reaction.

Step away from the computer for a while. Take a break.

What has he said that was wrong? We need a huge clean out come summer and infact it should of started already but that transfer window was a farce

Players are getting old and the current crop of young players arent good enough at this moment in time to replace them,

edit

I do disagree on Evans and Im in 2 minds about Rooney

RobertKK

RasTa wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXMehv29jZw

He sounds like Lance Armstrong's defense team before he admitted he was cheating.

So Gary Neville condones cheating and a win at any cost attitude, this is why we have cheating- diving when there is nothing, doping and all other forms of cheating.
Gary Neville was wrong there.

Gringo180

Oregano_State wrote: »

Hope your team shows up with the same attitude.

Me too. As last time we showed up at OT lacking any confidence and rolled over quite easily, it was one of our worst performances last season.

PhlegmyMoses

bad2dabone wrote: »

1 post in Utd thread does not equal obsessed

sensitive!

Head on into the match thread there

Rayne Wooney

RasTa wrote: »

Gigigs, Hernandez, Rooney Kagawa?

Kagawa was one of our best players, not only did he create more than Valencia as a winger in the first half, but he showed Rooney up in the second half by making an instant impact creating a host of chances and looking dangerous every time he got the ball.

But listen if you're giving Valencia 7/10 we're just not going to agree at all, he was absolutely atrocious as usual in that game tonight IMO, all he did was track back but he is a winger last time I checked

Jimmy Iovine

Headshot wrote: »

What has he said that was wrong? We need a huge clean out come summer and infact it should of started already but that transfer window was a farce

Players are getting old and the current crop of young players arent good enough at this moment in time to replace them,

By suggesting the sale of 15 players.

I agree with some of his ratings. Not all of them though.

Nothing can be done for a few weeks. And who's to say anything will be done then. As you've said, the transfer window was a farce. I don't think Woodward will have learnt much in a few short months.

Hopefully he proves me wrong.

PhlegmyMoses

RobertKK wrote: »

Gary Neville was wrong there.

In your opinion. There are two valid schools of thought when it comes to diving. It's not Black and white.

Somebody mentioned Coleman staying on his feet for Everton the other day. Where did that get him? Did the ref sort him out for staying on his feet? Did he get his reward? Nope. 0-0 draw and a player getting away with impeding him enough to put him off.

Headshot

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

By suggesting the sale of 15 players.

RvP, DDG and Januzaj are the only ones not in for criticism. He's a hard man to please.

Players are getting old, I like to see them retire at the club but the head should rule over the heart in this business situation. Vidic is 32, would be stupid to turn down good money for him and same for Carrick. Fell shouldnt have been signed in the first place is my opinion.

We are really lacking from defence and especially midfield players that can take over from the likes of Vidic and Carrick but we dont have them. We may well have them in the future but seeing the likes of Jones starting gives me a shiver down my spine.

Of course I do disagree with Evans, great player
Wouldnt surprise me if Rooney still wants to go in the summer and I wouldnt mind seeming him go either

We need a big clean out, big clean out

The_Kew_Tour

RasTa wrote: »

Nope, contact and he went down. Modern game and I'm with Gary Neville on diving, someone mentioned Coleman. He was stupid for playing on

The contact came from him running into the opposing player.

I cant defend it.

There is being clever..

and there is being an out to out cheat everytime

Felexicon

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The contact came from him running into the opposing player.

I cant defend it.

There is being clever..

and there is being an out to out cheat everytime

Bullsh!t. It's not every time. You're entitled to your point but don't make yourself look silly with such statements.

titan18

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

By suggesting the sale of 15 players.

I agree with some of his ratings. Not all of them though.

Nothing can be done for a few weeks. And who's to say anything will be done then. As you've said, the transfer window was a farce. I don't think Woodward will have learnt much in a few short months.

Hopefully he proves me wrong.

Over about 3 years, with retirements and players I suggested to leave, it's entirely possible. Not saying sell them all in January and the summer, and replace the whole squad in a few months. But honestly, we've got a few years left from the likes of Vidic,Evra and Carrick at the top level, Rio will probably retire at the club in a few years aswell, and imo the young players haven't developed enough that I think they're good enough to be starting. Evans had a good year last year, but I'm not sure he's so good that you'd turn down a good offer for him, or be unable to replace him. Smalling and Jones would probably fetch decent money due to them being young and English, and whilst decent squad choices as they can play a few positions, I wouldn't want them to be regular starters at all.

It's not a reaction to tonight's match. I think the squad has been going steadily downhill over the last few years as the main guys are getting older and the younger ones aren't developing like they should be imo. 2 years ago, I'd have defended the likes of Jones, Smalling, Hernandez etc to anyone and would have said they'd develop into world class players, but in those 2 years, I don't think they've pushed on, and in Smalling's case, I think he's gone backwards.

There's no point selling anyone we can't replace, other than probably Young, Valencia and Anderson as they're not even good enough for their wages, but I think the rest could be replaced over a few seasons and we'd be better off.

gosplan

RobertKK wrote: »

He sounds like Lance Armstrong's defense team before he admitted he was cheating.

So Gary Neville condones cheating and a win at any cost attitude, this is why we have cheating- diving when there is nothing, doping and all other forms of cheating.
Gary Neville was wrong there.

It's not up to players to police the game, it's up to the officials.

People that play any professional sport will do as much as they can get away with and take any edge they can.

Yes, you an applaud a player's morality on occasions that they don't go down but it's ridiculous to expect any more from them.

23 years since the biggest thing in the sport (world cup final) was decided by diving and nothing has been done between then and now.

The_Kew_Tour

Felexicon wrote: »

Bullsh!t. It's not every time. You're entitled to your point but don't make yourself look silly with such statements.

He ****ing constantly dives ffs.

Lets call a spade a spade. Unless you are blind.

RobertKK

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

In your opinion. There are two valid schools of thought when it comes to diving. It's not Black and white.

Somebody mentioned Coleman staying on his feet for Everton the other day. Where did that get him? Did the ref sort him out for staying on his feet? Did he get his reward? Nope. 0-0 draw and a player getting away with impeding him enough to put him off.

I didn't see it, so it would be unfair to make a judgement on that.

It is upto the referee and his officials, players shouldn't be diving to influence referees.

Liam O

RobertKK wrote: »

I didn't see it, so it would be unfair to make a judgement on that.

It is upto the referee and his officials, players shouldn't be diving to influence referees.

Why not? A potential penalty is worth a lot more than a potential yellow card. Until that changes players are going to, and in all honestly probably should, take advantage of it. It's not going to stop me getting annoyed seeing it but right now it makes sense for them to do it.

uncleoswald

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Somebody mentioned Coleman staying on his feet for Everton the other day. Where did that get him? Did the ref sort him out for staying on his feet? Did he get his reward? Nope. 0-0 draw and a player getting away with impeding him enough to put him off.

But players are making the refs job a lot harder. Of course the ref is going to assume that Coleman wasn't fouled as he will have expected the player to drop at the slightest contact, as that is what he sees week-in week-out. Players are the first to complain and whine when a ref calls a decision wrong but spend most of their time trying to trick them into doing just that. It is embarrassing.

Next time a ref mistakes a legitimate foul against a United player for a dive I hope you are understanding that it is a natural consequence of your position on diving.

gosplan

Liam O wrote: »

Why not? A potential penalty is worth a lot more than a potential yellow card. Until that changes players are going to, and in all honestly probably should, take advantage of it. It's not going to stop me getting annoyed seeing it but right now it makes sense for them to do it.

Exactly, and there are loads of potential things they could do to stop it but they won't mess with the massive cash cow that is football.

And if the attitude of the governing bodies is 'let it go', then how can we expect players that are paid essentially immoral amounts of money to suddenly become football's morality police?

It actually winds me up when people get on to players for doing it.

Cantona's Collars

Felexicon

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He ****ing constantly dives ffs.

Lets call a spade a spade. Unless you are blind.

Constantly? Twice this season I think. Young doesn't dive much more than most players. However when he does it's usually inside the area and because he so bad and blatant at it, he gets alot more attention

PhlegmyMoses

uncleoswald wrote: »

But players are making the refs job a lot harder. Of course the ref is going to assume that Coleman wasn't fouled as he will have expected the player to drop at the slightest contact, as that is what he sees week-in week-out. Players are the first to complain and whine when a ref calls a decision wrong but spend most of their time trying to trick them into doing just that. It is embarrassing.

Next time a ref mistakes a legitimate foul against a United player for a dive I hope you are understanding that it is a natural consequence of your position on diving.

But we know that the ref won't give a foul for a slight tug on the shirt in the penalty area if you stay on your feet. We see this every week at every corner. It would have to be blatant. But it might be enough in a tight situation to impede you. So it's a chicken and egg situation. Refs don't make the call, player makes him make the call. Players dive making refs less likely to give the benefit of the doubt when they stay on their feet.

homerjay2005

would have taken the draw before hand, so happy with the result but its definatley 2 points dropped that we shouldnt have dropped - that result could have all but sealed our progression.

depending on injuries, would expect up to 6 changes on saturday with Rafael, Evans, Adnan, RVP, Carrick and Cleverly all coming in, even Jones as the DM if we go 5 in midfield and one up top.

bucketybuck

Felexicon wrote: »

Constantly? Twice this season I think. Young doesn't dive much more than most players. However when he does it's usually inside the area and because he so bad and blatant at it, he gets alot more attention

You are being a little ingenuous if you are trying to say that Ashley Young has not rightly earned a reputation as a diver.

Rayne Wooney

The problem is Young has played around 3 games in all and has done two terrible dives that I can remember, possibly more.

Jimmy Iovine

Headshot wrote: »

Players are getting old, I like to see them retire at the club but the head should rule over the heart in this business situation. Vidic is 32, would be stupid to turn down good money for him and same for Carrick.

The chance to get big money for Vidic has passed, I think.

I wouldn't compare him to Carrick. Vidic is so brittle these days. He was holding his back again tonight. I know Carrick is injured at the moment, but he doesn't pick up those long-term injuries that Vidic does.

Big changes need to be made. I hope they don't rush and sign people for the sake of signing them in January. We'd end up seriously ****ed at that stage.

I really hope that van Persie doesn't start to question the direction the club is going. We may as well pack it in if him and Rooney leave. De Gea is good, but not that good.

Al Capwned

If Ashley Young was not a United player, I would imagine that almost every person in here would be severely criticising him...

He dives constantly, cheating is a strong word, but it's fairly appropriate in his case. Indefensible.

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are being a little ingenuous if you are trying to say that Ashley Young has not rightly earned a reputation as a diver.

The argument is that most are. Young is just a bit more blatant and a bit ****ter than everyone else.

Felexicon

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are being a little ingenuous if you are trying to say that Ashley Young has not rightly earned a reputation as a diver.

Oh no, he is deserving of the title, just not to the extent some on here would have you believe

Headshot

I rather not sign any players in Jan. Would be stupid. Do the homework and be the first out of the gates in summer

KH25

Young is going to cost the team at some stage if he keeps up his blatant cheating. It's going to get like Bale last year when he was booked for diving at times when he was actually fouled.

KH25

Headshot wrote: »

I rather not sign any players in Jan. Would be stupid. Do the homework and be the first out of the gates in summer

Hard to do considering its a World Cup year.

lordgoat

RasTa wrote: »

Valencia was decent covering back as usual, some ok link up play with Smalling going forward. Final 3rd let him down, 7/10

What did Hernandez do all game bar missing an open goal?

Nothing, due to the ****e service from the wings. If you honestly think he deserved a 7, i'm leaving it here. He's been poor most of last season and worse this season. Somethings not right, he's beyond an age where I have patience for him, i'd like him sold. Same as Anderson he's had plenty of chances and consistently comes up lacking.

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Big changes need to be made. I hope they don't rush and sign people for the sake of signing them in January. We'd end up seriously ****ed at that stage.

I really hope that van Persie doesn't start to question the direction the club is going. We may as well pack it in if him and Rooney leave. De Gea is good, but not that good.

I'd agree with changes being made but selling 10+ players or suggesting it is stupid. It won't happen. If you (not you!) want it to happen you need to go for a run or something.

homerjay2005

Al Capwned wrote: »

If Ashley Young was not a United player, I would imagine that almost every person in here would be severely criticising him...

nobody would give a f*ck about him, if he wasnt a United player. he probably was at the same thing at Villa, just nobody cared.