Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

homerjay2005

basillarkin wrote: »

Saha 25 goals in a year, I say he barely got that in his whole time at Utd, especially in the PL

like to wager a bet on that?

in 2006 he scored 25 goals - 15 league, 4 CL, 2 FA cup and 4 League Cup.

its actually 27 if you stretch that to a full year, as between 20th December 2005 to 9th December 2006 he actually scored 27 in that period, until he got injured.

Saha was immense for us back then and it was one of the main reasons we sold RVN.

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no, back then we had Ronaldo and Rooney about to kick off and Saha at the prime of his career. We had Rio about to enter the form of his life and Evra and Vidic just signed, along with Carrick.

United was about to enter one of its best periods in the clubs history in 2006, the opposite could be happening now.

our football is bad with Rooney, its absolutely awful without him.

Maybe with a few changes we could be entering another good period.

Who is to say that with Rooney gone, we could have Kagawa and Januzaj about to kick off, Hernandez in his prime, Smalling about to enter the form of his life and Felliani just signed? Who knows.

Your list is just hindsight, what is important is that Fergie recognised that even though a player was performing very, very well, that it was better for the team that he went a different direction.

Rooney may be performing well personally, but the team matters more. You say the team would be awful without him, well I'm not convinced and frankly I'd like to find out.

Robson99

keane2097 wrote: »

The fact that seems obvious to me is that he's neither the best striker at United (despite being an excellent one) nor the best number ten (at which he is pretty average).

If that means you have to sell him it means you have to sell him, but the only point I wanted to raise when I brought it up initially is that shunting Kagawa to the wing to accommodate Rooney benefits nobody bar Rooney himself.

Rooney's main problem at ten is that he doesn't seem to trust himself to receive the ball in tight spots high up the pitch and moves out to wing or drops away deep anytime he wants to receive the ball, and always looks to control it with his back to goal when there's an opponent anywhere near him.

If you have to play one of them on the wing and one of them at ten then Kagawa ten - Rooney wing is better than the alternative.

Sums it up perfectaly keane. He will huff and puff all day but is just not good enough technically for the no 10 position. People think hes having a good season but thats based on his work rate not on his creativity.

To be honest I dont think there would be a lot of fans crying for him if he went. He hasthrown his toys out of the pram twice, he has refused to say hes happy at the club this season and that he wants to be a utd player. Finally hes a scouser and will never be truly accepted as a utd great

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Saha was immense for us back then and it was one of the main reasons we sold RVN.

Louis Saha could have been an absolute world class player for us, such a pity injuries destroyed his career.

The_Kew_Tour

I actually remember Saha celebrating with United squad after we won CL in 08 and completely forgetting about him being at the club even though he got vital few goals at start of season.

Greta player. Sadly played well when United were in decline and never really got the appreciation he should have.

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Greta player. Sadly played well when United were in decline and never really got the appreciation he should have.

???? did you not read my posts above? his best time, came just as United were starting to rise. he played a big part is our 2007 season which was the beginning our perhaps our best era in the clubs history.

basillarkin

homerjay2005 wrote: »

like to wager a bet on that?

in 2006 he scored 25 goals - 15 league, 4 CL, 2 FA cup and 4 League Cup.

its actually 27 if you stretch that to a full year, as between 20th December 2005 to 9th December 2006 he actually scored 27 in that period, until he got injured.

Saha was immense for us back then and it was one of the main reasons we sold RVN.

Throw up a link

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

???? did you not read my posts above? his best time, came just as United were starting to rise. he played a big part is our 2007 season which was the beginning our perhaps our best era in the clubs history.

06/07 or 07/08?

34 appearances in the first, with13 goals.
24 appearances with 5 goals in the second.

He could have great for us and if he had stayed fit he would have been - but neither was the case really. We did play some great stuff with him in the side, and he did put in some great performances but I wouldn't say his performances ever really played a bit part in any season. He was never consistently available enough, imo, and his goal tally isn't good enough as a striker to say he had a massive impact.

aperture_nuig

Not the result I was hoping to see in the Westfalenstadion tonight... Arsenal are on a roll

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

???? did you not read my posts above? his best time, came just as United were starting to rise. he played a big part is our 2007 season which was the beginning our perhaps our best era in the clubs history.

I was talking in general and not responding to any posts in particular.

Kerrydude1981

aperture_nuig wrote: »

Not the result I was hoping to see in the Westfalenstadion tonight... Arsenal are on a roll

Ramsey again,he would seriously want to revert to type now.

They grinded out that result tonight.

Lord TSC

aperture_nuig wrote: »

Not the result I was hoping to see in the Westfalenstadion tonight... Arsenal are on a roll

Can't believe they got the win.

Don't think I've ever looked less forward to a game as I do the Arsenal one at the weekend.

Liam O

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Ramsey again,he would seriously want to revert to type now.

What type? He's always gotten in these positions and was desperately unlucky at times last year. United seriously dropped the ball with him.

homerjay2005

Jaysus Arsenal are coming to us now in perhaps their strongest form in 6 or 7 years.

i think we have one big performance in us , but it could be messy one.

The_Kew_Tour

I never feared any team like I feared Arsenal from 98 to around 05.

Chelsea or Barca 09-11 or Juve 96-99 did not come close.

ericzeking

Do people consider RVP untouchable in this current conundrum regarding strikers, number 10s and who plays off the left??

If we agree that this season our brightest play has come with Kagawa at no.10 and we want him there and our most potent goalscoring striker is Rooney therefore it would follow that the logical best/form combo would be Rooney right up top with Kagawa behind....just a thought

Rayne Wooney

Jesus I can't wait for this game, I'll probably watch it from behind the sofa, but I still can't wait.


Setting out negatively against this Arsenal side is suicide, Moyes needs to get it right, probably his biggest test now after the loss to City.

Lord TSC

ericzeking wrote: »

Do people consider RVP untouchable in this current conundrum regarding strikers, number 10s and who plays off the left??

The thought had crossed my mind, but I'm not brave enough to argue it at the moment....

bucketybuck

ericzeking wrote: »

Do people consider RVP untouchable in this current conundrum regarding strikers, number 10s and who plays off the left??

I don't consider him untouchable no, but then I don't think we needed him in the first place. It is a valid point though, people talk about rotation, well Van Persie should be subject to that too.

To be quite honest , it doesn't matter if it is Rooney, Van Persie or Hernandez up front. Whichever it is will score goals, what is important is whats happening further back, thats what needs to be got working properly.

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't consider him untouchable no, but then I don't think we needed him in the first place. It is a valid point though, people talk about rotation, well Van Persie should be subject to that too.

To be quite honest , it doesn't matter if it is Rooney, Van Persie or Hernandez up front. Whichever it is will score goals, what is important is whats happening further back, thats what needs to be got working properly.

Did I read this right?

UnitedIrishman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I never feared any team like I feared Arsenal from 98 to around 05.

Absolutely loved those battles against Arsenal those days. There was that niggle that was needed and it was at a time when players could actually put in tackles.

Never really feared them as such and funnily, it was when we were underdogs (when they were on their unbeaten run and we were struggling to build a new side) that I relished the games even more because it was a chance to knock them off their stride.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Did I read this right?

Well I can see what he means.. Yes any team in the world would have him but I don't think anyone thought we needed a striker at the time above other areas like midfield. We weren't short in the strikers department.

The_Kew_Tour

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Absolutely loved those battles against Arsenal those days. There was that niggle that was needed and it was at a time when players could actually put in tackles.

Never really feared them as such and funnily, it was when we were underdogs (when they were on their unbeaten run and we were struggling to build a new side) that I relished the games even more because it was a chance to knock them off their stride.

Thats what im loving about this weekend.

The fact we are underdogs.

Arsenal on a roll. United playing poor.

Harder they come and all that.:)

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Did I read this right?

Well I have only said it about a dozen times in here since we bought him, so yeah, you read it right. Van Persie is a world class player, but we did not need him and we would have won the league without him.

UnitedIrishman

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Absolutely loved those battles against Arsenal those days. There was that niggle that was needed and it was at a time when players could actually put in tackles.

Never really feared them as such and funnily, it was when we were underdogs (when they were on their unbeaten run and we were struggling to build a new side) that I relished the games even more because it was a chance to knock them off their stride.

I much much preferred competing against Arsenal and Liverpool than Chelsea and Man City. Arsenal and Liverpool, like us, run their clubs on money they generate by themselves and they develop their squads with players they brought through their academy mixed in with new signings while Chelsea and Man City practically bought their entire squad which makes it hard for me to respect them.

If we aren't to win the league this season who would I be "Ok" with winning it? While I have my doubts about Arsenal this season (squad depth) I would much prefer it be them over Chelsea or Man City.

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well I have only said it about a dozen times in here since we bought him, so yeah, you read it right. Van Persie is a world class player, but we did not need him and we would have won the league without him.

He was the difference between us and City last season.

His goals were huge.

Dont see any player coming close to his tally last season.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He was the difference between us and City last season.

His goals were huge.

Dont see any player coming close to his tally last season.

If I am not mistaken, when Rooney played a full season as the main striker he scored more goals than Van Persie did last season.

If Van Persie had not scored the goals, then Rooney and Hernandez would have. They have proven that every single time they played there.

Oregano_State

If the gooners buy a decent striker in January they might just hold on. Although they could do with another CB too. Their midfield is unreal though.

Hopefully we set up to have a right go at them on Sunday. Would like to see Jan and Kags playing. Not ultra confident about winning, it's going to be an interesting game though.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well I have only said it about a dozen times in here since we bought him, so yeah, you read it right. Van Persie is a world class player, but we did not need him and we would have won the league without him.

If Rvp went to city instead of us they would have won the league as easy as we did. He carried our average team through long spells last with his goals. Look at us this season when he isnt bailing us out

The signing of Van Persie while we were not short in the striking department at the time had two major consequences. It won us the league and pissed off Rooney. Now I feel we are trying to make Rooney happy. I agree with others that say he's been our best player this season but that doesn't mean that it's best for the team performance. He fails to link midfield with strikers and that's a flaw for a number 10 to have. Kagawa excels at this, he might be the solution to our lack of linking between midfield and strikers. But persisting with two strikers up front to keep one of them happy will hurt us in the long run, especially since Rooney is a long way off signing a new contract.

Jimmy Iovine

He looks so young in this. That watch he's wearing is probably older than him. Also, it's too expensive looking for an 18-year-old.

Blatter

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I never feared any team like I feared Arsenal from 98 to around 05.

Chelsea or Barca 09-11 or Juve 96-99 did not come close.

Ah come on, whatever about those Chelsea and Juve teams, that Barca team was miles better than those Arsenal sides. Not even a contest tbh.

The_Kew_Tour

Blatter wrote: »

Ah come on, whatever about those Chelsea and Juve teams, that Barca team was miles better than those Arsenal sides. Not even a contest tbh.

No

They were not miles better.

Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry, Cole, Vieira alone.

Come on like.

Blatter

Blatter wrote: »

Ah come on, whatever about those Chelsea and Juve teams, that Barca team was miles better than those Arsenal sides. Not even a contest tbh.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No

They were not miles better.

Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry, Cole, Vieira alone.

Come on like.

Ah here, they both had lovely bottoms.

The_Kew_Tour

Sacramento wrote: »

Ah here, they both had lovely bottoms.

:pac::pac:

Blatter seems to have mixed up words Fear and Better also.

Different periods for us too.

But to say Barca are "Miles" better when players of quality Arsenal had in that period is insult to great side.

Timmyctc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

:pac::pac:

Blatter seems to have mixed up words Fear and Better also.

Different periods for us too.

But to say Barca are "Miles" better when players of quality Arsenal had in that period is insult to great side.

Arsenal didnt come close to achieving what that barca side achieved.

Sacramento

Sacramento wrote: »

While I have my doubts about Arsenal this season (squad depth) I would much prefer it be them over Chelsea or Man City.

**** off, I don't want United fans not hating Arsenal :pac:

bucketybuck

Maybe they weren't a better side, but I still keenly remember when we were playing Juventus in Turin, around 97 or 98 or something. At this stage we hadn't yet made any impact in Europe and the European cup was still a massive occasion full of romance and the unknown, the big European names seemed so much bigger back then since we didn't see them every weekend on Sky or the internet.

Anyway, we were away to Juventus and I remember the inferiority complex we still had in Europe. We were still Manchester United and all, but after so long out of the picture it was a massive occasion just playing there, as if Zidane was almost too good to even be on the same pitch as the likes of Nicky Butt and Ronny Johnson. We went there for a backs to wall game and nobody expected us to win. I think it was the game where Butt gave away a penalty late on and we lost 1-0.

The Arsenal games and Barca games were big alright, but by then we had that arrogance back and we still expected victory no matter who we played. That wasn't the case in the mid 90's, and I think I enjoyed those European Campaigns far better than any recent Champions leagues.

Edit: Also, it was those games that made '99 so damn good. That was the year that we finally believed we were every bit as good as Inter/Juve/Barca, and it was a great feeling!

The_Kew_Tour

Timmyctc wrote: »

Arsenal didnt come close to achieving what that barca side achieved.

and?

ye seem to be missing my point.

I dont buy the miles better BS.

But, when we played them they were tough to beat. Plus they won league at OT and unbeaten in 04.

Juve side of 96-99 underacheived. But when they played United they had hoodoo over use till we got better of them proper in 99.

Its not about who was better side.

I never said that.

It was the team I fear and hated playing the most.

bit of difference.

Timmyctc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and?

ye seem to be missing my point.

I dont buy the miles better BS.

But, when we played them they were tough to beat. Plus they won league at OT and unbeaten in 04.

Juve side of 96-99 underacheived. But when they played United they had hoodoo over use till we got better of them proper in 99.

Its not about who was better side.

I never said that.

It was the team I fear and hated playing the most.

bit of difference.

Well then you feared an inferior team
also you did imply they weren't miles better, which they were

"No

They were not miles better.

Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry, Cole, Vieira alone.

Come on like."

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe they weren't a better side, but I still keenly remember when we were playing Juventus in Turin, around 97 or 98 or something. At this stage we hadn't yet made any impact in Europe and the European cup was still a massive occasion full of romance and the unknown, the big European names seemed so much bigger back then since we didn't see them every weekend on Sky or the internet.

Anyway, we were away to Juventus and I remember the inferiority complex we still had in Europe. We were still Manchester United and all, but after so long out of the picture it was a massive occasion just playing there, as if Zidane was almost too good to even be on the same pitch as the likes of Nicky Butt and Ronny Johnson. We went there for a backs to wall game and nobody expected us to win. I think it was the game where Butt gave away a penalty late on and we lost 1-0.

The Arsenal games and Barca games were big alright, but by then we had that arrogance back and we still expected victory no matter who we played. That wasn't the case in the mid 90's, and I think I enjoyed those European Campaigns far better than any recent Champions leagues.

Good post.

While I disagree on team I feared most they were bloody nightmare for those couple of seasons we could not get better off them..

We beat them 3-2 at OT in a great game in 1997 if im correct, but it wasnt till that famous 2-3 win in 1999 that we came of age.

and banished a few cobwebs from bad European nights for few years before.

The_Kew_Tour

Timmyctc wrote: »

Well then you feared an inferior team
also you did imply they weren't miles better, which they were

Yes I said that..

I dont agree. why bring up something twice im not sure.

You disagree fair enough.

Blatter

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No

They were not miles better.

Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry, Cole, Vieira alone.

Come on like.

They were all world class players but not in the GOAT class of Messi, Iniesta, Xavi. That Barca team dominated the opposition in pretty much every game they played to levels never seen before in the modern era.

Blatter

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

:pac::pac:

Blatter seems to have mixed up words Fear and Better also.

I would have thought it be reasonable to assume a clear correlation between the two words in this context.

Timmyctc

Blatter wrote: »

I would have thought it be reasonable to assume a clear correlation between the two words in this context.

I don't understand why you would fear an inferior team unless they were rivals a la City or Liverpool

The_Kew_Tour

Timmyctc wrote: »

I don't understand why you would fear an inferior team unless they were rivals a la City or Liverpool

Arsenal were our biggest rivals in that period

edit: in saying that though you prove my point to extent.

Timmyctc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Arsenal were our biggest rivals in that period

edit: in saying that though you prove my point to extent.

I don't think Arsenal were ever bigger rivals than Liverpool. (When referring to City I mean in the past two years)

Blatter

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Arsenal were our biggest rivals in that period

edit: in saying that though you prove my point to extent.

Again, I thought it was reasonable to assume that you weren't talking about fear in terms of losing to a 'rival'. Why bring Barca or Juve into the equation at all then if that's what you meant? Of course Arsenal of 98-05 were far bigger 'rivals' than those teams!

Anyway, I still maintain Barca of 09-11 were miles better than those Arsenal sides and I don't think I'm being even slightly disrespectful in saying that!

The_Kew_Tour

Timmyctc wrote: »

I don't think Arsenal were ever bigger rivals than Liverpool. (When referring to City I mean in the past two years)

I cant count for every fan, but from 1998 Arsenal/Man United were top 2 teams in England for near decade imo. I be honest its pretty clear to see just going by titles alone.

Arsenal 3 - 0 Liverpool in terms of PL titles in that period. Nearly destroyed our Treble hopes in 99 (think we won league by point)

To slag your Liverpool buddies maybe meant more, but as in terms of winning trophies I cared more about Arsenal results going up in smoke more than any other team then.

I can only speak for myself.

But i be amazed if im alone here. Actually stunned.

Al Capwned

Timmyctc wrote: »

I don't think Arsenal were ever bigger rivals than Liverpool. (When referring to City I mean in the past two years)

Of course they were, Arsenal were our closest rivals for the guts of ten years around the turn of the century.... Liverpool were nowhere near either of us at the time tbf.

Edit - - just read what Kew just said above!