Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

Irish94

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Very interesting article from Daniel Taylor here on our summer dealings/failures.

United had been monitoring him for three years and effectively lined up the transfer but Moyes, as everyone at Everton can testify, likes to have a huge amount of background information on new signings and, having initially gone along with it, he decided in the end he did not want to take someone else's word about a player he had seen infrequently.

I really like this from Moyes.

irishfeen

Just wondering lads is this the most commented/read thread on boards.ie? .... Its crazy, 71 pages since yesterday morning - (and that's the day after Deadline Day)

Your Airbag

tupac_healy wrote: »

If this is true in any way shape or form....

1. We DO need a new manager, I would go that far.....

2. Almost impossible to believe that Moyes could view Thiago as any sort of risk buy....

1. Your having a laugh right?

2. Thiago is unproven to an extent and therefore there is an element of risk with him.

Lord TSC

irishfeen wrote: »

Just wondering lads is this the most commented/read thread on boards.ie? .... Its crazy, 71 pages since yesterday morning - (and that's the day after Deadline Day)

I've often wondered why United don't get a sub-board somewhere, given how fast we rip through threads. Could keep all the Carrick, Nani, Formations, News & Gossip in different threads.

But I've noticed in the requests forum that it was tried a few times and failed

kippy

Irish94 wrote: »

I really like this from Moyes.

Yep, a tad different from the attitude the club and Fergie took with Bebe (for example)

kippy

irishfeen wrote: »

Just wondering lads is this the most commented/read thread on boards.ie? .... Its crazy, 71 pages since yesterday morning - (and that's the day after Deadline Day)

27 pages, 50 posts per page FTW!

Timmyctc

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I've often wondered why United don't get a sub-board somewhere, given how fast we rip through threads. Could keep all the Carrick, Nani, Formations, News & Gossip in different threads.

But I've noticed in the requests forum that it was tried a few times and failed

Think the reason the spurs one is there is that it like predates the soccer forum's format or something like that

homerjay2005

that Danial Taylor article is very interesting. if true of course.

summary/key points for those that havent read it -

Rooney's determination to force a transfer, with a proactive agent in Paul Stretford, and Chelsea doing everything they could to push it has been such a major issue at Old Trafford it is estimated to have taken up more than half the time that United's top-level officials have devoted to working on player arrivals and departure

Kagawa still features prominently in the thinking of David Moyes despite not even being on the bench against Liverpool on Sunday. His problem is two-fold: one, that he has had an exhausting summer with his national team and is being brought back slowly; two, that Moyes has not really seen him play or got to know him very well. He is not, however, being marginalised.United rebuffed an approach from Atlético Madrid for the Japan international

United are taken aback, for example, by the latest suggestion they challenged Arsenal for Mesut Ozil. The truth is that United and Manchester City were both offered the player three weeks ago. United turned it down because they had already made up their mind that Wayne Rooney would not be leaving and they did not want to break their transfer record,

That still leaves a lot of unanswered questions such as why United paid £27.5m for Marouane Fellaini when his buyout clause could have been activated earlier in the summer for £4m less. The long pursuit of Cesc Fábregas was fundamentally flawed because they were encouraged to believe he was open to the offer; United, in short, were told Fábregas was increasingly agitated about his potential lack of games for Barcelona in a World Cup year – but ultimately they could not get the man they regarded as their top target and they recognise that amounts to a long, drawn-out failure.

The issue of Thiago Alcântara also needs clearing up. In his case, it has been portrayed as him snubbing United for Bayern Munich when the truth is actually that Moyes decided he was not entirely comfortable going for the Barcelona player. United had been monitoring him for three years and effectively lined up the transfer but Moyes, as everyone at Everton can testify, likes to have a huge amount of background information on new signings and, having initially gone along with it, decided in the end he did not want to take someone else's word about a player he had seen infrequently

United had not wanted to overrule Moyes and promised they would keep their squad together, with the exception of Bébé. They have kept true to that and, as well as rejecting the approach for Kagawa, they turned down a Tottenham offer for Javier Hernández and at least five approaches from different clubs for Nani.

United, however, are angry about the suggestion, emanating from the Herrera farce, that a club of their stature and transfer experience somehow failed to understand the Spanish tax system – and bewildered, more than anything, that they are supposed to have employed three lawyers they say they had never heard of.

this bit in bold however is the real worrying part..

It is a confusing, complex and embarrassing issue for United, even if it is true it was not a farce of their own making. What is beyond dispute is that they have found the transfer window frustrating and unsatisfactory. They are, however, a lot more relaxed about it than might be expected

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that Danial Taylor article is very interesting. if true of course.

summary/key points for those that havent read it -



this bit in bold however is the real worrying part..

Having read the entirity of the article, and if you chose to believe it, why is that part "worrying"?
How are they supposed to be?
Behaving like some of the supporters on this thread? Asking for the manager to be sacked etc etc

tupac_healy

kippy wrote: »

There are so many things, in general wrong with that post, but the part in bold is one of the reasons that fans of clubs like Chelsea and City have been laughed at for years on this and all the other United threads........

I am going to let you off and assume you were under the influence while posting that.

Not a possible excuse for me im afraid..... as I do not.....

Exclude the bold part for a sec, what else is wrong with what I said?


As for the bold part, eh im not a trigger happy fan by any means, id love to see Moyes there for 20 successful years...


But.....


You simply MUST question a managers capability that could fathom that thiago would be a 'risk' good enough at such a young age for Barca (wanted to keep him) and now the champs of europe....


Eh serious questions against the manager if he saw thiago as any sort of risk....

Paul Tergat

He has managed us for 3 league games. Get a grip!

Teamshadowclan

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I've often wondered why United don't get a sub-board somewhere, given how fast we rip through threads. Could keep all the Carrick, Nani, Formations, News & Gossip in different threads.

But I've noticed in the requests forum that it was tried a few times and failed

It would just end up like every other fan forum and there's shed loads of them.

tupac_healy

Your Airbag wrote: »

1. Your having a laugh right?

2. Thiago is unproven to an extent and therefore there is an element of risk with him.

No far from it.....

Fellaini is a risk, whats he won??? Thiago for the type of player he is is one of the best in the world even at such a young age....


I cant believe people would seriously think otherwise.....


Risk.... sure we could have brought Ronaldo back and he could have crashed his car again and been done with football....

Obviously thats off the pitch risk and on the pitch there is no questions against Ronnie, but it is IMPOSSIBLE for Thiago to be at that level simply because of age, he has not enough seasons yet to be considered up ther with the top players in the world...


What risk are we talking about? Risk that he may not be a good enough footballer???


I certainly hope not....

homerjay2005

kippy wrote: »

Asking for the manager to be sacked etc etc

who have asked for Moyes to be sacked? dont recall seeing people saying this, but i may have missed it.

kippy wrote: »

Having read the entirity of the article, and if you chose to believe it, why is that part "worrying"?

we have had people on here saying that one of the positives was that the club would learn from it, but this would suggest they wont or they are not perhaps aware of the poor image the club has had around Europe due to this.

would have though it was obvious why it was worrying by the way.

kippy

tupac_healy wrote: »

Not a possible excuse for me im afraid..... as I do not.....

Exclude the bold part for a sec, what else is wrong with what I said?


As for the bold part, eh im not a trigger happy fan by any means, id love to see Moyes there for 20 successful years...


But.....


You simply MUST question a managers capability that could fathom that thiago would be a 'risk' good enough at such a young age for Barca (wanted to keep him) and now the champs of europe....


Eh serious questions against the manager if he saw thiago as any sort of risk....

So you reckon once a player is playing for Barca, he is good enough to play in any league in the world with any club in the world?

If you read it and you believe it to be true, I think Moyes did what he thought was right as he didnt know enough about the player, simple as.

ANY player is a risk, I can throw you some of the biggest transfers ever in the PL and in foresight some, like yourself may have stated they were "risk free" however in hindsight they have been proven to be flops.

If the manager wants to know more about the players he is putting his trust in, then most fans SHOULD be happy with that.

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

who have asked for Moyes to be sacked? dont recall seeing people saying this, but i may have missed it.



we have had people on here saying that one of the positives was that the club would learn from it, but this would suggest they wont or they are not perhaps aware of the poor image the club has had around Europe due to this.

would have though it was obvious why it was worrying by the way.

There's one:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86379620&postcount=1045



So you are suggesting that you need to be panicking like a fool for any learning to have taken place.........really?

homerjay2005

so IF and I stress IF it is true that United lost out on Thiago due to Moyes not rating him, how would the people who said all summer we never had a chance of getting him, feel about it now?

would make sense considering Moyes said "he is not a priority" when asked about him IIRC and then his father saying the deal was close.

homerjay2005

kippy wrote: »

So you are suggesting that you need to be panicking like a fool for any learning to have taken place.........really?

how can i be suggesting something that appears to be your opinion and not mine?????

the club doesnt need to panic at all, they do need to sit down, realise failures were made and learn from it. if they fail to reconise these failures as the article suggests, how can they learn?

that article gives the impression that maybe, just maybe the club believes all is ok and nothing went wrong all summer. other clubs, players and officials probably disagree.

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so IF and I stress IF it is true that United lost out on Thiago due to Moyes not rating him, how would the people who said all summer we never had a chance of getting him, feel about it now?

would make sense considering Moyes said "he is not a priority" when asked about him IIRC and then his father saying the deal was close.

Who gives a fcuk?
That time has passed, move on.
We don't know whether United had a chance of getting him anyway......
United didn't get him for whatever reason - I doubt you'll see Moyes or other figures losing too much sleep over it, and they are the ones with the pressure on them.
That's how transfers go, win some, lose some.......

Those calling for the managers head over that need a moment of relaxation.

tupac_healy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so IF and I stress IF it is true that United lost out on Thiago due to Moyes not rating him, how would the people who said all summer we never had a chance of getting him, feel about it now?

would make sense considering Moyes said "he is not a priority" when asked about him IIRC and then his father saying the deal was close.

Id say we could basically forget all other farcical events of the window regards our club...


This would.be THE big one....


For a manager who wants a Cesc type player (I know not exactly the same, but similarities) to not rate him......


Questionable to say the very least

kippy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

how can i be suggesting something that appears to be your opinion and not mine?????

the club doesnt need to panic at all, they do need to sit down, realise failures were made and learn from it. if they fail to reconise these failures as the article suggests, how can they learn?

that article gives the impression that maybe, just maybe the club believes all is ok and nothing went wrong all summer. other clubs, players and officials probably disagree.

The article suggests the club are getting on with it. That doesn't mean they haven't learned lessons. In fact at no point in the article does it suggest that the people involved havent learned lessons.

As I have stated numerous times here, I think it was a decent transfer window for United, taking all things into account.
You have been hellbent on giving out about it since day 1 and I doubt you'll ever admit things actually went OK for United.

tupac_healy

kippy wrote: »

Who gives a fcuk?
That time has passed, move on.
We don't know whether United had a chance of getting him anyway......
United didn't get him for whatever reason - I doubt you'll see Moyes or other figures losing too much sleep over it, and they are the ones with the pressure on them.
That's how transfers go, win some, lose some.......

Those calling for the managers head over that need a moment of relaxation.

No your right, no point crying over spilled milk, we'll just belt on into the next transfer window and keep that excuse in reserve too will we?

Danye

Not sure if this has been mentioned but reports on twitter suggest RVP gave an interview to Dutch TV and apparently he said something along the lines that he is "confused" as to why Moyes is manager and that he misses Fergie.

Now I'm not sure how how accurate these reports are but I think IMO what was reported to have been said would match up with RVP's attitude over the last few games. Also it's a bad sign if he's willing to go on TV and air these opinions.

kippy

tupac_healy wrote: »

Id say we could basically forget all other farcical events of the window regards our club...


This would.be THE big one....


For a manager who wants a Cesc type player (I know not exactly the same, but similarities) to not rate him......


Questionable to say the very least

What was the reason he didn't rate him?
This is key btw.

Again, assuming all the stuff in that article is not BS.

allthedoyles

Time to move on lads , the window is closed .

I would be more worried tactic / experience wise , about the trio that replaced the trio of Fergie - Phelan - Muelensteen .

If the team continue to start with a 39 yr old , the future is ominous too

kippy

tupac_healy wrote: »

No your right, no point crying over spilled milk, we'll just belt on into the next transfer window and keep that excuse in reserve too will we?

Well, as a fan there isn't much point crying over spilled milk, as it effects you even less than it does the manager/squad/club.

Ronin247

tupac_healy wrote: »

............

You simply MUST question a managers capability that could fathom that thiago would be a 'risk' good enough at such a young age for Barca (wanted to keep him) and now the champs of europe....

Eh serious questions against the manager if he saw thiago as any sort of risk....

Possible that Thiago could have been no risk for SAF as he would automatically give the manager respect, but if there was even a hint of attitude issues ( and I am not saying there were) then maybe he was a risk for a new manager trying to establish himself in the biggest and best club in the world. United spent 3 years looking at him so obviously they would have profiled him psychologically as well as his football skills, we will never know what tipped Moyes one way or the other.

GSPfan

Serious question for homerjay.

How the hell do you find time to post so much in here? You have been on here non stop for weeks. Do you post from your phone?
Takes me ages to just keep up to date with the thread. Let alone carry on so many conversations.

homerjay2005

kippy wrote: »

The article suggests the club are getting on with it. That doesn't mean they haven't learned lessons. In fact at no point in the article does it suggest that the people involved havent learned lessons.

As I have stated numerous times here, I think it was a decent transfer window for United, taking all things into account.
You have been hellbent on giving out about it since day 1 and I doubt you'll ever admit things actually went OK for United.

can you list in your opinion, what went ok and what didnt, in your opinion?

when you say ok, what do you mean or for example, how would you rate it out of 10 with 0 being no signings, 10 being Ronaldo and Fabregas for example (of course, totally impossible/unrealistiv)?

2moreMinutes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we have had people on here saying that one of the positives was that the club would learn from it, but this would suggest they wont or they are not perhaps aware of the poor image the club has had around Europe due to this.

would have though it was obvious why it was worrying by the way.

To be fair, it mentions above in the Cesc paragraph that they recognise that it was a long drawn out failure to land their main target so its something that they realise it was both long & drawn-out as well as being a failure.

The last paragraph you quoted also states that they found the window frustrating and unsatisfactory. Them being more relaxed than might be expected is I guess dependant on the level of expectation each person has as to how relaxed/bat**** crazy they should be once they reviewed the summer dealings.

Hopefully it means they're taking stock, reviewing where they went wrong and hopefully going to learn some big lessons from it including deciding whether the right people were in charge of the right areas of the negotiations.
If it means they're all having a glass of wine in the jacuzzi, smoking a Cuban cigar and laughing it off as good times, I agree that that would be very worrying.

tupac_healy

kippy wrote: »

What was the reason he didn't rate him?
This is key btw.

Again, assuming all the stuff in that article is not BS.

Sure how would I know!!! Ha ha!!! Its not 'Being David Moyes' at all!!!


Only he knows that, look cards on the table here all football fans (the ones that have a clue!) Would rate Thiago, let alone the manager of the most successful club in England....


I only questioned the man on this IF IF IF its true as it is just so difficult to accept....

tupac_healy

homerjay2005 wrote: »

can you list in your opinion, what went ok and what didnt, in your opinion?

when you say ok, what do you mean or for example, how would you rate it out of 10 with 0 being no signings, 10 being Ronaldo and Fabregas for example (of course, totally impossible/unrealistiv)?

On this I'd go 5 or 6 only because we got a dominating midfielder that we desperately needed!


If he goes on to play him further up the pitch we are going negative score!

Nalz

Paul Tergat wrote: »

He has managed us for 3 league games. Get a grip!

Howya Paul! Glad to see ya back posting... You're the first person I deleted off Facebook in panic as I thought you were spoilered breaking bad for me!! Turns out u weren't

Its been v negative and kindof knee jerky in here imo... I missed u x x

The_Kew_Tour

Get a Room!!!

Paul Tergat

Trilla wrote: »

Howya Paul! Glad to see ya back posting... You're the first person I deleted off Facebook in panic as I thought you were spoilered breaking bad for me!! Turns out u weren't

Its been v negative and kindof knee jerky in here imo... I missed u x x

I have commented on just how good BB is though.

I can now sleep safely again at night.

homerjay2005

GSPfan wrote: »

Serious question for homerjay.

How the hell do you find time to post so much in here? You have been on here non stop for weeks. Do you post from your phone?

my job is based online, so can be sitting in "meetings" and posting at the same time. Summer is over now however so that will change.

i can probably type about 60 words a minute which helps but the main thing is dont really post anywhere else apart from this thread lately.

Al Capwned

I doubt I can even think at 100 words a minute.

All_in_Flynn

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would have though it was obvious why it was worrying by the way.

Talk about being condescending.

You act as if you are more intelligent than everyone alot of the time.

IITYWYBMAD

homerjay2005 wrote: »

can you list in your opinion, what went ok and what didnt, in your opinion?

when you say ok, what do you mean or for example, how would you rate it out of 10 with 0 being no signings, 10 being Ronaldo and Fabregas for example (of course, totally impossible/unrealistiv)?

A question I'd genuinely like to ask is, how do you measure "OK"? You look for an opinion on "what went ok", but that's like asking "what went poorly"....

How do you measure OK?

Seriously, at this stage of the season, how do you measure OK?

Rate it out of 10???? 10 what? 10 being Ronaldo? Serious? Ronaldo? Give me a break. Ronaldo is a 7 compared to some (see what I did there??)

Here's a question, how would you have rated the signing of Veron? How would you have rated the signing of Keane? How would you have rated the signing of Bebe, Anderson, Young, Massimo Taibi, etc...

People creaming all over themselves looking for X out of 10, when the only way to rate anything....anything is by results ffs. Just quit with the on-going "rate this transfer window" sh**e and see what the results bring.

homerjay2005

Al Capwned wrote: »

I doubt I can even think at 100 words a minute.

im completely wrong actually, just checked. its nowhere near 100

homerjay2005

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

A question I'd genuinely like to ask is, how do you measure "OK"? You look for an opinion on "what went ok", but that's like asking "what went poorly"....

How do you measure OK?

think you quoted the wrong person here, why dont you ask the poster who said it and not me??

Al Capwned

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im completely wrong actually, just checked. its nowhere near 100

Yeah I though I was good and I can do about 40ish.... :cool:

IITYWYBMAD

homerjay2005 wrote: »

think you quoted the wrong person here, why dont you ask the poster who said it and not me??

Apologies, I thought you said....

homerjay2005 wrote: »

can you list in your opinion, what went ok and what didnt, in your opinion?

I completely understand what you were responding to, and I've seen your quoting of the posters questions, but I'm actually asking you your opinion on what YOU mean by OK.

NOT about the transfer window.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

when you say ok, what do you mean or for example, how would you rate it out of 10 with 0 being no signings, 10 being Ronaldo and Fabregas for example (of course, totally impossible/unrealistiv)?

Again, I'm asking YOU about your rating system above, and have used examples to illustrate what and why.

bucketybuck

kippy wrote: »

If the manager wants to know more about the players he is putting his trust in, then most fans SHOULD be happy with that.

You cannot look at this in isolation though, you simply cannot.

Two things. We were clearly, desperately in need of a midfielder. Thats not cause to abandon all reason, but it does mean that Moyes should have been more prepared to take this risk that we are talking about. And don't forget, to put this risk into perspective, Manchester United scouts under the reign of Alex Ferguson had scouted Thiago for three years and deemed him worth signing. This isn't Bebe with no info other than a youtube video, this is one of the most visible young talents in world football, watched for three years by United staff.

And don't forget also, the reported fee was less than £20m!!! People wanted to pay that for ****ing Leighton Bainess ffs.

There is wanting to know more about players, and there is being stubborn despite rational thought. Moyes may not like signing players he doesn't know, but considering Uniteds dire need for a midfielder, in this case he put his own stiff neck before the clubs needs.

He may as well fire the entire scouting staff as well, clearly he doesn't trust their judgement.

Pro. F

I think that Daniel Taylor article is getting too much credit. It is well thought out, detailed and clearly written, but it is not necessarily accurate.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F wrote: »

I think that Daniel Taylor article is getting too much credit. It is well thought out, detailed and clearly written, but it is not necessarily accurate.

You're right. But at the same time if you have a number of conflicting reports on a subject and you can't verify the accuracy of any of them, the one that makes the most sense is probably the best bet.

The_Kew_Tour

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23967515

Manchester United need director of football - Damien Comolli


Damien Comolli says Manchester United need to have a director of football.
The club signed Everton midfielder Marouane Fellaini for £27.5m but missed out on a number of further targets.

Comolli, an ex-director of football at Liverpool and Tottenham, believed new United manager David Moyes and chief executive Ed Woodward needed more help.

"If there was a club in need of a director of football to ease the process for both individuals it was Manchester United," said Comolli.

United signed Fellaini on transfer deadline day, but failed with late moves for Everton defender Leighton Baines, Athletic Bilbao midfielder Ander Herrera and Real Madrid left-back Fabio Coentrao.

Moyes was also unsuccessful earlier in the summer when Barcelona midfielder Cesc Fabregas stayed at the Nou Camp and midfielder Thiago Alacantara opted to join German side Bayern Munich when he left the Spanish champions.

United's former manager Sir Alex Ferguson left the club at the end of last season, while chief executive David Gill also moved on from Old Trafford in June.

However, Comolli, who was in charge of transfer affairs at Tottenham from 2005 to 2008 and at Liverpool from 2010 to 2012, said a director of football would have eased the pressure on Moyes and Woodward.

"David only joined on 1 July which was quite late," Comolli told BBC Radio 5 live.

"The issue for Manchester United is that the two most important people at the club in Sir Alex and David Gill left their positions and new people came in for their first transfer window.

"For some reason the club weren't prepared or they didn't think it would be that difficult and they ended up in a difficult situation."

IrishIrish

Why would anyone ever listen to anything Damien Commoli says? Surely one of the worst signing records around. Liverpool, Spurs and his old french team all more than happy to get rid of him.

kryogen

Someone had asked have MUST jumped on the bandwagon, they have going by this

Manchester United inquest begins after David Moyes era opens in farce

Transfer deadline day humiliation left Old Trafford club looking indecisive and ill-informed and supporters wanting answers


Owen Gibson



David Moyes Liverpool v Manchester United - Premier League
David Moyes’s bid to bring Ander Herrera to Manchester United ended in acrimony and confusion. Photograph: Matthew Peters/Man Utd via Getty Images


In a bid to put a bitter summer of transfer humiliation behind them, David Moyes will sit down with the under-fire Manchester United vice chairman, Ed Woodward, in the coming days to draw up a list of targets for January.

Before they do so they will look back, if not in anger then certainly with regret, at a summer of missed opportunities that culminated in 24 hours of screwball transfer deadline-day farce. Amid continued questions about where it all went wrong for the Premier League champions, down a succession of blind alleys and with a string of embarrassing rebuffs, it is understood they will dust themselves down and begin identifying the players they want to bring in during the next window.

Meanwhile, the Manchester United Supporters' Trust is seeking a meeting with Woodward to discuss a range of issues that are likely to include the level of the club's ambition to compete with the best in Europe.

Moyes, for all his public stoicism, is likely to be privately concerned about the club's failure to land a string of major targets and will be unwilling to see this summer's farce replayed as tragedy. The club's disastrous summer was summed up by their deadline-day humiliation.

The pair will take joint responsibility, with Moyes forced to continue to dead-bat questions in public as Woodward waits to make his first public pronouncements in his vice-chairman's role, but in truth it is not the manager who must shoulder the larger share of the blame. Beyond Woodward, the Glazer family is responsible for the fact that United went into the summer with a new manager and a new man at the helm in the boardroom.

The fallout continued when it emerged that the delegation that arrived at the offices of the Spanish league on Monday night expecting to finalise the purchase of Athletic Bilbao's Ander Herrera were far from being the imposters or pranksters initially suggested.

In fact they were experienced lawyers who, Spanish league sources claimed, were indeed working on behalf of United. Adding to the malaise of confusion, Old Trafford insiders continued to insist they were acting without authorisation.

In any case, under the Spanish system it would have been incumbent on the player to meet his release clause. United will have known the size of the clause and should have been fully aware that Bilbao would not let Herrera go for any less.

Instead they continued to try and haggle to the end as Bilbao held firm, only finally walking away late on Monday. Even then there was still time for one last embarrassment as a loan deal for Real Madrid's Portuguese left-back Fábio Coentrão fell through after the Spanish club failed to secure a replacement. As with their other transfer-window dealings, it made United look indecisive and ill-informed.

Thiago Alcântara, Daniele De Rossi, Luka Modric and, it emerged on Tuesday, Galatasaray's Wesley Sneijder were all considered but remained beyond reach.

The tone was set earlier in the summer with the failed pursuit of Cesc Fábregas. Even as sources at other clubs confidently asserted that the former Arsenal midfielder would remain at Barcelona for at least one more season, United were led up the garden path amid a succession of bids that went nowhere.

In the middle of all that, Woodward cancelled a scheduled media appearance to return from United's tour of Australia on "urgent transfer business" that also failed to materialise.

Amid recriminations over a summer of transfer dealing to forget for Woodward, the former investment banker who masterminded Manchester United's exponential commercial growth before taking over from David Gill on 1 July, there will be renewed questions over the Glazers' succession policy.

The balance that worked so well in the latter years of Sir Alex Ferguson's reign despite the onerous financial demands of the Glazer business model, with Woodward effectively running the business side of the club from London and Gill overseeing football matters from Manchester, has been upset.

Some are already openly wondering whether United would not have been better off appointing an experienced European director of football, as at Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur, to fill the gap between Moyes and Woodward.

Other experienced members of the inner circle of executives who masterminded the football side of the operation largely untouched by Woodward's hugely successful commercial arm in London, or the Glazers in the US, have also moved on. Maurice Watkins, the club's experienced lawyer, stepped down as a director a year ago.

Although United's transfer policy has often come under intense scrutiny during the Glazer years, from the odd bum note (Bébé) to a lack of money to spend, the deals that were concluded tended to be wrapped up speedily and efficiently. The change in approach has not gone unnoticed.

"It has looked a bit odd. I don't think it's gone as smoothly as we'd have liked. For a new start and a new manager it's not ideal. There seems to have been a change in policy in terms of how much information we disclose in advance of any deal," said Duncan Drasdo, chief executive of the supporters' trust.

"It makes it look as though we have failed in the pursuit of a number of players. It was always going to be very tough. You'd think any new manager would need substantial backing to even maintain the status quo."

This summer, Woodward was the victim of a combination of bad luck and bad judgment. Despite his obvious negotiating skills, evidenced by the 31% leap in United's commercial revenues in the last year alone, he is new to the rarified air of the top end of the European transfer market, which is still controlled by a handful of executives and so-called "super agents".

Woodward's outsider status will not have helped. It is not unusual for even seasoned executives, subject to the cut and thrust of the transfer window for the first time, to be gripped by a kind of paralysis as they recoil from the almost obscene sums at play and the vicissitudes of players and agents.

It is also possible that his status as the Glazers' representative on earth caused him to blanch when it came to the crunch, unwilling to risk too much of the club's money.

And amid the Championship Manager meets high-stakes poker shenanigans of the final hours of the transfer window, it was easy to overlook the fact that Manchester United have not shopped at the expensive end of the international market for a long time.

Their recent big-money buys have tended to be promising youngsters from overseas or expensive domestic players. Arguably their last signing from overseas of any stature was Juan Sebastián Verón, not an unalloyed success, and even he came from Lazio rather than Madrid, Barcelona or Milan.

For Moyes, there will be more than mere irritation at the fact that a squad to which he was desperate to add at least two top-quality central midfielders and a left-back has been bolstered only by the last-ditch addition of Marouane Fellaini from his former club – and even then at an inflated price.

For the new manager the embarrassment is all the more acute because he would have had intimate knowledge of Fellaini's contract – and specifically the buyout clause that expired on 31 July and would have allowed United to buy the Belgian for £23.5m had they moved sooner. The impression that lingered was that Fellaini had never been the first-choice option and that Moyes himself was uncharacteristically indecisive.

At Everton, Moyes was meticulous about his transfer targets. As also detailed by Michael Calvin in his new book on football scouting The Nowhere Men, a "war room" at Everton's Finch Farm training complex was given over to a detailed distillation of targets from all over Europe.

In-depth scouting reports were compiled and potential recruits sifted carefully, before being transferred to a succession of whiteboards that lined the wall. Through financial necessity, targets were carefully selected. United's approach has looked scattergun by comparison.

The defiant message from inside Old Trafford , as they picked through the bones of a frenzied and frazzled conclusion to a transfer window that has dented the pride of the Premier League champions, was that their priorities had been achieved.

Namely, to retain the services of Wayne Rooney and sign a seasoned midfielder. But such a claim strikes a discordant note with the noises coming out of Old Trafford earlier in the summer, when it was made abundantly clear that the money was available for a "landmark" signing of up to £60m to kick off the Moyes era.

While not deserving of the level of hyperbolic dismay it has been greeted with in some quarters, emblematic of the general level of hoopla that surrounds each successive transfer window as the TV money pouring in to the top end of the game continues to escalate, the sense of humiliation will be bitterlyfelt – and not only among the club's hierarchy.

In more ways than one, Manchester United trade off their status as the self-appointed biggest club in the world. Madrid and Barcelona may bring in more revenue, partly thanks to the fact they keep the lion's share of La Liga's TV revenue, but United endlessly trumpet their 659 million global "followers" (even after it emerged that figure referred to anyone who had watched the club on television recently, fan or not) and have used their status to mint a rampantly successful international commercial model.

Fans were left scratching their heads, particularly as they looked longingly at Arsenal supporters crowing over the arrival of Mesut Ozil. And an ever-lengthening list of sponsors attracted by the history and romance of the club, as well as those numbers, also demand success and star names. With all due respect to the combative Belgian midfielder, Fellaini is unlikely to set hearts racing in the same way as a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Gareth Bale.

"Some supporters feel it hasn't represented the club very well. It's made us look a bit small-time. We should be competing with Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich," said Drasdo. "It has made people concerned. But it's hard to know how much of it is things not working out in this window and how much of it is a bigger issue."

Pro. F

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You're right. But at the same time if you have a number of conflicting reports on a subject and you can't verify the accuracy of any of them, the one that makes the most sense is probably the best bet.

When you are dealing with people who are known to spoof then you shouldn't bet on any of their stories imo. That Taylor article could have been put together by a skilled writer with no direct sources, just using what has been printed in the press this summer.