Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 mod warning post#7259

dahat

Getting Nani on a new deal,keeping Rooney plus getting Fellani in to shore up midfield. 3 cracking deals for Moyes after all the hula baloo of the transfer window, we can look on these 3 as big positives.

Timmyctc

atta boy

Red Crow

Liam O wrote: »

I'd have no problem with retiring 11 when Giggs is gone.

I'd have a huge problem with it. It's a silly gesture. I hope the club doesn't do it. There are far more deserving players for footballing and moral reasons.

fergiesfolly

Keeping the "famous" numbers in the team is of more use to the club imho.
Beckham and Ronaldo both aspired to live up to the number 7. And did.
Valencia hasn't felt up to the pressure of it(read into that what you will) and handed it back.
At the end of the day, I'd love to be the player coming into the club and being told " You're getting Ryan Giggs number". I'd play out my skin on the thrill of it.

Timmyctc

Eli Manning wrote: »

I'd have a huge problem with it. It's a silly gesture. I hope the club doesn't do it. There are far more deserving players for footballing and moral reasons.

Just on one part of the moral reasons thing For some reason I think its sillier retiring it after someone has died than after a great of the game retires. Like its a lovely gesture and all but I'm sure there are better ways to mourn the passing and remember their legacy.

bucketybuck

Timmyctc wrote: »

Being able to maintain a high standard of football over a long period of time is something Giggs has been able to do for about 18 years and unfortunately Best only did for about 7 years. Its hard to say but I think I'd take Giggs 18 years of being a great player to Best's 7 years of being the Best.

I'd have to disagree. Don't forget, we are talking about what for me is an unthinkable thing, the retiring of a shirt number. Just being a great player for a long time isn't enough to justify that in my opinion. If it was even to be considered then it could only be for the very best of the best.

George Best for example has always rightly been considered one of the three greatest players to ever play the game (Messi and Ronaldo will join those ranks of course). Not just one of the greats, but the absolute greatest. As I said, if it isn't retired for the greatest, then it shouldn't be done for a player whose greatest claim is that he hung around a long time.

Of course, it goes without saying that I have good perspective on just how much of a legend Giggs is, of course he is an absolute stone cold legend. But not enough to retire a shirt.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

by the way, he number 11 is not that associated with Best, he wore 7 alot of the time, as well as 8.

'Shrug'

I never mentioned any number in particular, I wouldn't retire any number, be it 7, 11 or 48.

Timmyctc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. Don't forget, we are talking about what for me is an unthinkable thing, the retiring of a shirt number. Just being a great player for a long time isn't enough to justify that in my opinion. If it was even to be considered then it could only be for the very best of the best.

George Best for example has always rightly been considered one of the three greatest players to ever play the game (Messi and Ronaldo will join those ranks of course). Not just one of the greats, but the absolute greatest. As I said, if it isn't retired for the greatest, then it shouldn't be done for a player whose greatest claim is that he hung around a long time.

Of course, it goes without saying that I have good perspective on just how much of a legend Giggs is, of course he is an absolute stone cold legend. But not enough to retire a shirt.





'Shrug'

I never mentioned any number in particular, I wouldn't retire any number, be it 7, 11 or 48.

I wasnt specifically defending the retiring the number arguement was just putting my two cents in regarding who had the career as a winger on the whole. Best was better but his lifestyle ruined him and he never became the absolute Best even though he should have.

MagicMarker

homerjay2005 wrote: »

why do you call it ludicrous, and then not explain why?

Giggs is the most decorated player in the history of our club, has won it all, seen it all. him retiring, will be a sad day for the club, an end of an era and while it wont be as emotional as Fergie, it certainly will have a big impact. i think giggs is the one player who embodies the success the club has had on the pitch in the past 20 years and the last real link to the days when success was not taken for granted. the only difference is he will still be involved off as a coach i hope, but its not the same.

while i get where your coming from, calling it ludicrous is OTT and no need to be acting like that over something that shouldnt really bother you!

It's not OTT in the slightest, Giggs retiring will have the same effect Scholes retiring had. None.

It is in absolutely no way comparable to Ferguson retiring in any way, shape or form.

alchemist33

I have no interest in retiring squad numbers.

I also have no interest in who gets what number. The days of 1 to 11 meaning something are long gone.

bucketybuck

Timmyctc wrote: »

I wasnt specifically defending the retiring the number arguement was just putting my two cents in regarding who had the career as a winger on the whole. Best was better but his lifestyle ruined him and he never became the absolute Best even though he should have.

Understood, and so a question.

Would United have had the same success from 1994 until the treble in 1999 without Ryan Giggs? (First title, double double etc)

Would United have had the same success from 1963 until winning our first European cup in 1968 without George Best? (FA cup 1963, league titles 1965,67, European cup 1968)

Considering those two questions who then was the most influential player, Giggs or Best?

Not a simple answer I'm sure you will agree. For example, would Lee Sharpe have developed into a better player player in the absence of Giggs, replacing Giggs' contribution? Would Bobby Charlton and Law been enough to get the goals for United in '68?

Paul Tergat

Going to be very tough for most to answer on Best as most of us arent old enough to see the impact he had over a whole season

Timmyctc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Understood, and so a question.

Would United have had the same success from 1994 until the treble in 1999 without Ryan Giggs? (First title, double double etc)

Would United have had the same success from 1963 until winning our first European cup in 1968 without George Best? (FA cup 1963, league titles 1965,67, European cup 1968)

Considering those two questions who then was the most influential player, Giggs or Best?

Not a simple answer I'm sure you will agree. For example, would Lee Sharpe have developed into a better player player in the absence of Giggs, replacing Giggs' contribution? Would Bobby Charlton and Law been enough to get the goals for United in '68?

Yeha I can only really go on what I've read/been told by the grand'rents. I think however that while taking Giggs out of that period would certainly have prevented us from winning most of that, I do admit that that would be the case if you took out any one of Scholes, or Beckham, Keane, Schmeichel, maybe even the Nevilles/Irwin at a bit of a push. Maybe I'm looking back on it fervently with rose tinted glasses but it seemed to me like such a perfect team effort those years.

I felt like the talent was spread rather equally across the pitch. (Obviously players like Giggs, Keane and Schmeichel were much more talented than some others) but ya know. Again. its a long time ago. My view of it is biased.

Paul Tergat

We dont win 99 without Stam!

bullvine

Giggs longevity is what makes him great. He was never at any stage the best player in the team or league unlike Cantona, Keane, Ronaldo and probably Rooney.. Who at the height of their success were hands down the best players in English football.. The first three were undroppable at certain stages of their career and always the first name on the team sheet.

Winston Payne

bucketybuck

bullvine wrote: »

Giggs longevity is what makes him great. He was never at any stage the best player in the team or league unlike Cantona, Keane, Ronaldo and probably Rooney..

Hah. I've just had this vision of Cantona pottering on into his late thirties, dropping deeper in midfield as the years go by, until at 39 he is just standing on the center spot all game with his collar up and effortlessly pinging passes all around the park...

F.J.

Saw it mentioned that when Gill was at the club he was based in Manchester and that himself and Ferguson would have meetings
most days.Apparently Woodward is based in London.Not ideal way to bed in a new manager and build a relationship.

kryogen

Paul Tergat wrote: »

We dont win 99 without Stam!

Or Ronnie, or Irwin, or Blomqvist, Becks, Yorkie and Cole etc etc etc

Not to mention, the behemoth that was Roy Keane

Vic Vinegar

Winston Payne wrote: »

Six of that list are United players!

Nice.

Paul Tergat

All jokes aside about United fans and London but how the hell can Woodward be based in London?

kryogen

Winston Payne wrote: »

That list is actual incredible when you think about it

A. That Fabregas is still at the top
B. That Young is second!
C. The amount of United players

Winston Payne

Paul Tergat wrote: »

All jokes aside about United fans and London but how the hell can Woodward be based in London?

It's where our commercial office is and that's where we promoted Woodward from.

Paul Tergat

Winston Payne wrote: »

It's where our commercial office is and that's where we promoted Woodward from.

As you say he was promoted. His role at the club means he should be in Manchester

kryogen

Paul Tergat wrote: »

All jokes aside about United fans and London but how the hell can Woodward be based in London?

That's where the commercial arm of the club is based.

Nothing unusual about it tbh

bullvine

bucketybuck wrote: »

Hah. I've just had this vision of Cantona pottering on into his late thirties, dropping deeper in midfield as the years go by, until at 39 he is just standing on the center spot all game with his collar up and effortlessly pinging passes all around the park...

That's a fantastic vision.

Winston Payne

Paul Tergat wrote: »

As you say he was promoted. His role at the club means he should be in Manchester

Has he been replaced yet? Maybe the replacement needs training. If he isn't in Manchester a year from now, fair enough.

yabadabado

kryogen wrote: »

That list is actual incredible when you think about it

A. That Fabregas is still at the top
B. That Young is second!
C. The amount of United players

Fabregas will be able to add to his total when we buy him in January

The_Kew_Tour

I be honest had Fabregas come to United I would have been more excited then seeing Ronaldo back.

Fabregas would have been sexual chocolate for us.

sigh.

lordgoat

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I be honest had Fabregas come to United I would have been more excited then seeing Ronaldo back.

Fabregas would have been sexual chocolate for us.

sigh.

Give it up for me and my band, sexual chocolate.

The_Kew_Tour

You were not cool in school unless you played with your collar up Cantona style.

IamtheWalrus

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I be honest had Fabregas come to United I would have been more excited then seeing Ronaldo back.

Fabregas would have been sexual chocolate for us.

sigh.

Arsenal's signing of Ozil makes me think Moyes pursuit of Fabregas wasn't as pointless as it seemed. Money talks.

The_Kew_Tour

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Arsenal's signing of Ozil makes me think Moyes pursuit of Fabregas wasn't as pointless as it seemed. Money talks.

I honestly think we had a chance. We just did not approach it right.

Like you say money talks.

imo it was not the "no chance" deal some were thinking.

yabadabado

If Febregas came in next summer,him and Fellaini would be a good young partnership.Carrick isn't ready for the scrap heap yet but he will be 33 by the time next season starts and picking from Carrick,Fellaini and Fabregas would be a brilliant for a year of 2 before Cariick retires/leaves.
Probably never gonna happen:(

The_Kew_Tour

yabadabado wrote: »

If Febregas came in next summer,him and Fellaini would be a good young partnership.Carrick isn't ready for the scrap heap yet but he will be 33 by the time next season starts and picking from Carrick,Fellaini and Fabregas would be a brilliant for a year of 2 before Cariick retires/leaves.
Probably never gonna happen:(

I have to stop this man love for Fabregas, but seriously if he ever came I be ecstatic.

RobertKK

J. Marston wrote: »

Sounds like it was made up on Twitter or something. I find the idea of Coentrao crying with Ronaldo and Nani around him saying "There, there. It's okay." a bit too unbelievable.

Portuguese newspaper.

Tears? Crying? All sounds a bit strong but according to Portuguese newspaper Record that's what happened when Fabio Coentrao's move to Manchester United broke down right at the end of the transfer window on Monday night. Record had a couple of people in the Portuguese camp ahead of the international matches coming up and it's claimed that there was a lot of disappointment and frustration when the move failed to be completed.
They say that Nani and Ronaldo had stayed up with Coentrao whilst the transfer window came to an end, they had to keep up to date with most things via the television as they left agents and clubs to get on with things, at one point Coentrao thought he was a Manchester United player and when it turned out he wasn't there was frustration. Real Madrid didn't process things on their side quick enough, perhaps because they were having problems getting a replacement, and Madrid's hand in the collapse has particularly hurt Coentrao.
He had told the club this summer that he wanted to leave, something which was confirmed by Carlo Ancelotti, but then things changed and Coentrao was brought back into the picture and felt wanted again. Then for Real Madrid to accept a loan offer but seemingly halt the deal from going through, it'll be no surprise if the defender has found himself 'angry and confused'.
The Portuguese football association had no problem with Coentrao dealing with the move whilst on international duty and provide their players with 'total freedom' because they feel it instills 'ultimate responsibility'. Record say that many from the association, and players, provided a shoulder for Coentrao as the move fell through.
Poor Coentrao, he'll now have to stay at Real Madrid. Such a hardship. However, to be slightly more sympathetic, it does look like he's been messed about hugely by the Spanish club, and all under the nose of Ronaldo.
The perception of Manchester United's move for Coentrao as being in the last hours of the transfer window could be wrong. On Saturday we covered a piece from Marca about Manchester United being in for Coentrao, at the time it just seemed like speculation but in hindsight there was probably more to it.

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/tears-as-ronaldo-and-nani-stay-up-with-coentrao-to-see-his-manche

Speaking of Ronaldo, he is said to be not impressed that Mezut Ozil has left the club. Ozil had the most assists to Ronaldo for his goals.

Liam O

Haven't yis all heard? Boards opinion is Cantona was crap

Obviously Nani and Ronaldo cheered Coentrao up by telling him how they'll all be together in Manchester next summer.

The_Kew_Tour

Liam O wrote: »

Haven't yis all heard? Boards opinion is Cantona was crap

Obviously Nani and Ronaldo cheered Coentrao up by telling him how they'll all be together in Manchester next summer.

I have better one.

couple of posters on boards thought Schmeichel was overrated and average.

beat that!!

Augmerson

"Have you seen this? Have you heard about this?"

Manchester United need director of football - Damien Comolli

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23967515

SIGN HIM UP!

Mitch Connor

kryogen wrote: »

That's where the commercial arm of the club is based.

Nothing unusual about it tbh

Gill was based at carrington, so Woodward not being based there IS unusual. He has been replaced as commercial head, that he remains in London is indicative that his eye is not as much on the football side of th business as it hold be. He should be building a strong relationship with Moyes, their relationship is going to be key for united.

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Gill was based at carrington, so Woodward not being based there IS unusual. He has been replaced as commercial head, that he remains in London is indicative that his eye is not as much on the football side of th business as it hold be. He should be building a strong relationship with Moyes, their relationship is going to be key for united.

While Gill was based at Carrington, Woodward was based in London.

If he remains in London in the future I would find it a little irritating but doubt it affects his ability to do the job.

He has been replaced as commercial head yes, but to be fair to him he has had a busy summer and maybe he will make the permanent move north now that things are settling down?

Not something I would stress about right now if Im honest, its hardly unusual for a guy to stay in the place he was based for so long a little bit longer, be it to train his replacement a little, figure out stuff with his family or whatever.

Its not just him that has to re locate, its his family too and maybe that is taking a bit of time?

RobertKK

Augmerson wrote: »

"Have you seen this? Have you heard about this?"

Manchester United need director of football - Damien Comolli

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23967515

SIGN HIM UP!

Please NO.

This is the man responsible for terrible signings at Liverpool for outrageous prices.
Liverpool fans would love us to sign him up :pac:

kryogen

Possibly also worth noting that Gill had been at the club since 97 and as far as I can tell was always based in Manchester.

Woodward was brought along with the Glazers in 05 and has always been in London.

Your Airbag

Adnan Januzaj is being lined up for Blackburn loan spell.

Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-starlet-adnan-januzaj-2254334#ixzz2e3q3FPWn

kryogen

Your Airbag wrote: »

Adnan Januzaj is being lined up for Blackburn loan spell.

Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-starlet-adnan-januzaj-2254334#ixzz2e3q3FPWn

Not exactly sure Id be keen on him going to Blackburn, but a loan to a decent club who play decent football would be good for him, he is now too good for the reserves but not quite there for the first team. For his continued development a loan would be good Id say.

As long as he feckin plays!

Augmerson

RobertKK wrote: »

Please NO.

This is the man responsible for terrible signings at Liverpool for outrageous prices.
Liverpool fans would love us to sign him up :pac:

Perhaps not Comolli but do you think he has a point that United need somebody to oversee transfers? Wasn't a great transfer season although January might be better.

GSPfan

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a bold prediction. Disagree with me if you must. I don't say this to cause hurt.

Cesc Fabregas will never play for Manchester United. That "slight chance" window has closed. Arsenal have now decided to spend money and it will not end with Mesut Ozil. Fabreags will only leave Barca for Arsenal and I actually don't even see that happening. I think it's best the club waste no more time on Cesc Fabregas.

That's my prediction and advice.

yabadabado

kryogen wrote: »

Not exactly sure Id be keen on him going to Blackburn, but a loan to a decent club who play decent football would be good for him, he is now too good for the reserves but not quite there for the first team. For his continued development a loan would be good Id say.

As long as he feckin plays!

Yeah he definitely needs a loan now, he's not going to develop playing reserves or getting a few minutes from the bench here n there.
Would Blackburn be a bad move, I have no idea how they play/line up. I would prefer to see him stay in England and am I right in thinking he can't move to EPL team so a championship team is his best option.

kryogen

Not certain he would be ready for a decent pl team, or would get the games there, but a good championship team would be nice. Not sure how things are regarding loans, the pl window may be closed? The football league one still open afaik

yabadabado

kryogen wrote: »

Not certain he would be ready for a decent pl team, or would get the games there, but a good championship team would be nice. Not sure how things are regarding loans, the pl window may be closed? The football league one still open afaik

any championship team that want to play ball and wouldn't scrapping around the bottom of the table would suit perfect for a loan.If he could make 25-30 appearances it would be great.I think the EPL loan window is closed,could be wrong tho.
Just looking at Blackburn's BBC page and they have 21 midfielders named in the squad.seems excessive.

G.K.

Januzaj would be welcome at ER, if you're willing to send him that way.